e36991:

@OLAADEGBU

Am beginning to sound like a broken record,

for the 3rd time, the POTUS was a crude and constricting parallel

Please, don't break record o

e36991:

Insteading of making assumptions, why dont you query the raised points of view

Your POTUS (crude and constricting parallel) reveals where you are coming from and where you are at.

e36991:

On the contrary I dont subscribe to "the Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Holy Spirit but they are all One God"

This is the evidence of the POTUS parallel you made.

e36991:

Here are some posers: What came first:

1) God
2) God the Father
3) God the Son
4) God the Holy Spirit

I would say, GOD?

In a like manner what came first

1) Kola Olaoye
2) Kola Olaoye the husband
3) Kola Olaoye the father

I would say, Kola Olaoye?

Kola Olaoye=the husband=the father=Kola Olaoye isnt it?

Kola Olaoye the husband had always been in Kola Olaoye

Kola Olaoye the father had always been in Kola Olaoye

Likewise

GOD=God the Father=God the Son=God the Holy Spirit=GOD

God the Father had always been in God and vice versa

God the Son had always been in God and vice versa

God the Holy Spirit had always been in God and vice versa

Holy Spirit? Oh! Holy = Complete; the whole Spirit

The difference is that kola Olaoye is one being in different capacities while God is three distinct and separate persons (The Lord God, the Messiah and the Holy Spirit). See God in action in this verse in Matthew 3:16,17:

"And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

e36991:

Do we know which Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters?

Was it the the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge etc etc?

When the Bible says the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters then I take it that He moved upon the waters, you are entitled to any meaning you want to give it.  The Holy Spirit has all the qualities of God and that is why He is God.

e36991:

Moving swiftly on. Now question, if God is Spirit

1) How without usurping, can God legally operate on earth?

2) What is the criteria that permits God to exist or live legally on earth?

3) What status must God have or does God need to legally gain entry on earth?

Answers to the above will likely shed some light on or reveal some of the Evidence Of The Deity Of Christ and the relevance of God the Son

All these questions can be answered in a separate thread as I would not like to divert the issue at hand. 

Derek Prince, in his book, Atonement.  Shed more light on how the Trinity was at work in every major phase of the redemption, that each of the Godhead is directly involved: 

[list]
[li]Incarnation.  The Father incarnated the Son in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:35).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Baptism in the Jordan River.  The Spirit descended on the Son, and the Father spoke His approval from heaven (Matt.3:14-17).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Public ministry.  The Father anointed the Son with the Spirit (Acts 10:38).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The crucifixion.  Jesus offered Himself to the Father through the Spirit (Heb.9:14).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The resurrection.  The Father resurrected the Son by the Spirit (Acts 2:32; Rom.1:4).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Pentecost.  From the Father the Son received the Spirit, whom He then poured out on His disciples (Acts 2:33).[/li]
[/list]

Each Person of the Godhead -- and I mean this reverently -- was jealous to be included in the process of redeeming humanity."  -- Derek Prince, Atonement

Therefore, God does not refer to 3 manifestations of one person or one being but of 3 separate Persons in perfect unity.

If the Son shall set you free you shall be free indeed.
Jesus is the Son of the Most High God.No controversy.

kola oloye:

If the Son shall set you free you shall be free indeed.
Jesus is the Son of the Most High God.No controversy.

Absolutely.  Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

Agreed. Jesus is LORD! 

@kola oloye,

Was Jesus Christ a created being?

To me, it's just so overwhelmingly clear, even from the 'aboves'.
I seriously wonder why i've never for once doubted it, even when i didn't 'understand' it. Think it just underlines the phrase "believing is seeing" sha

The Biblical Basis for the Godhead

The deity of Christ is intimately connected to the doctrine of the Godhead.  This doctrine affirms that there is only one God and that in the unity of the one Godhead there are three coequal and coeternal Persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

There is One God: 

In the course of God’s self-disclosure to humankind, He revealed His nature in progressive stages.  First, God revealed that He is the only true God.  This was a necessary starting point for God’s self-revelation.  Throughout history, Israel was surrounded by pagan nations deeply engulfed in the belief that there are many gods.  Through the prophets, God communicated to Israel that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:39; Psalm 86:10; Isaiah 44:6).  Even at this early juncture, however, we find preliminary indications of the godhead in (Genesis 1:26; 11:7; Isa.6:8; 48:16).  God’s oneness is also emphasized in the New Testament (Romans 3:29-30; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1Thess 1:9; 1Timothy 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25)

The Father Is God: 

As history unfolded, God progressively revealed more about Himself.  It eventually became clear that while there is only one God, there are three distinct persons within the one[b] godhead,[/b] each individually recognised as God (Matthew 28:19). 

The Father, for example, is explicitly called God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; Galatians 1:1; 1Peter 1:2).  He is also portrayed as having all the attributes of deity – such as being everywhere-present (Matt.19:26), all-knowing (Romans 11:33), all-powerful (1 Peter 1:5), holy (Revelation 15:4), and eternal (Psalm 90:2).

The Son Is God:  

Jesus is also explicitly called "God" in scripture (Titus 2:13; Heb.1:8.).  And He, too, has all the attributes of deity – including being everywhere-present (Matthew 28:20), all-knowing (Matthew 9:4), all-powerful (Matthew 28:18), holy (Acts 3:14), and eternal (Revelation 1:8, 17).

The Holy Spirit Is God: 

The Holy Spirit is also recognised as God (Acts 5:3-4).  He too possesses the attributes of deity, including being everywhere-present (Psalm 139:7-9), all-knowing (1 Corinthians 2:10-11), all-powerful (Romans 15:19), holy (John 16:17-14), and eternal (Hebrews 9:14).

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-518186.0.html

OLAADEGBU:

The Biblical Basis for the Godhead

The deity of Christ is intimately connected to the doctrine of the Godhead.  This doctrine affirms that there is only one God and that in the unity of the one Godhead there are three coequal and coeternal Persons – the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

There is One God:  In the course of God’s self-disclosure to humankind, He revealed His nature in progressive stages.  First, God revealed that He is the only true God.  This was a necessary starting point for God’s self-revelation.  Throughout history, Israel was surrounded by pagan nations deeply engulfed in the belief that there are many gods.  Through the prophets, God communicated to Israel that there is only one true God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:39; Psalm 86:10; Isaiah 44:6).  Even at this early juncture, however, we find preliminary indications of the godhead in (Genesis 1:26; 11:7; Isa.6:8; 48:16).  God’s oneness is also emphasized in the New Testament (Romans 3:29-30; 1Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1Thess 1:9; 1Timothy 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25)

The Father Is God:   As history unfolded, God progressively revealed more about Himself.  It eventually became clear that while there is only one God, there are three distinct persons within the one[b] godhead, [/b] each individually recognised as God (Matt.28:19). 

The Father, for example, is explicitly called God (John 6:27; Rom 1:7; Gal. 1:1; 1Peter 1:2).  He is also portrayed as having all the attributes of deity – such as being everywhere-present (Matt.19:26), all-knowing (Rom.11:33), all-powerful (1 Peter 1:5), holy (Revelation 15:4), and eternal (Psalm 90:2).

The Son Is God:   Jesus is also explicitly called “God” in scripture (Titus 2:13; Heb.1:8.).  And He, too, has all the attributes of deity – including being everywhere-present (Matt. 28:20), all-knowing (Matt.9:4), all-powerful (Matt.28:18), holy (Acts 3:14), and eternal (Rev.1:8, 17).

The Holy Spirit Is God:  The Holy Spirit is also recognised as God (Acts 5:3-4).  He too possesses the attributes of deity, including being everywhere-present (Psalm 139:7-9), all-knowing (1 Cor.2:10-11), all-powerful (Rom.15:19), holy (John 16:17-14), and eternal (Heb. 9:14).

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-518186.0.html

I'm not deaf but can God be killed by what He created and for what purpose?
He could have overlooked our sins and say : 'your sins are forgiven' knowing fully well that He cannot be queried.

kola oloye:

I'm not deaf but can God be killed by what He created and for what purpose?
He could have overlooked our sins and say : 'your sins are forgiven' knowing fully well that He cannot be queried.

God too is not deaf that He cannot hear us but our iniquities have separated between God and us - that is the reason why God had to become man so as to bridge the gap and reconcile us back to God.

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy Him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily He took not on him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like to His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconcilliation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.." -- See Hebrews 2:14-18

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool. -- Psalm 110:1

King David was ahead many of us who are now in the Kingdom today because the mystery of the Trinity was revealed to Him as we can see in this verse. It does not only show the Deity of Christ but His place in the Godhead. See the link below and read how a former Muslim like you did an expository study on the Deity of Christ.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/psalm110_1.htm

The Incarnation of Jesus Christ.

This is in response to my kweshun whether you worship Jesus or not.

kola oloye:

Jesus said : I'm the way,the truth and life,no one comes to the father,GOD, except through me. . '
I access God through Jesus,the only name that was given to us through which a man could be saved.

What I want you to consider first is what someone says about himself rather than what people say about the person.

Jesus said:
Luke 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Luke 9:58
And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where
to lay his head.

Luke 18:19
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

I have more for you BRB

This is why some cults argue that because Jesus prayed to the Father, He could not truly be God. Biblically, however, it was in His humanity that Christ prayed to the Father. Since Christ came as a man -- and since one of the proper duties of man is to worship, pray to and adore God -- it was perfectly proper for Jesus to address the Father in prayer. Positionally speaking as a man, as a Jew and as our High Priest -- "in all things He had to be made like His brethren" (Hebrews 2:7) -- Jesus could pray to the Father. But this in no way detracts from His intrinsic deity.

OLAADEGBU:


Please, don't break record o

Your POTUS (crude and constricting parallel) reveals where you are coming from and where you are at.

This is the evidence of the POTUS parallel you made.

The difference is that kola Olaoye is one being in different capacities while God is three distinct and separate persons (The Lord God, the Messiah and the Holy Spirit). See God in action in this verse in Matthew 3:16,17:

"And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

When the Bible says the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters then I take it that He moved upon the waters, you are entitled to any meaning you want to give it.  The Holy Spirit has all the qualities of God and that is why He is God.

All these questions can be answered in a separate thread as I would not like to divert the issue at hand. 

Derek Prince, in his book, Atonement.  Shed more light on how the Trinity was at work in every major phase of the redemption, that each of the Godhead is directly involved: 

[list]
[li]Incarnation.  The Father incarnated the Son in the womb of Mary by the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:35).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Baptism in the Jordan River.  The Spirit descended on the Son, and the Father spoke His approval from heaven (Matt.3:14-17).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Public ministry.  The Father anointed the Son with the Spirit (Acts 10:38).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The crucifixion.  Jesus offered Himself to the Father through the Spirit (Heb.9:14).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]The resurrection.  The Father resurrected the Son by the Spirit (Acts 2:32; Rom.1:4).[/li]
[/list]
[list]
[li]Pentecost.  From the Father the Son received the Spirit, whom He then poured out on His disciples (Acts 2:33).[/li]
[/list]

Each Person of the Godhead -- and I mean this reverently -- was jealous to be included in the process of redeeming humanity."  -- Derek Prince, Atonement

Therefore, God does not refer to 3 manifestations of one person or one being but of 3 separate Persons in perfect unity.

@OLAADEGBU

I suppose you understand I agree with you on all your counts concerning this subject matter (i.e. the Deity of Jesus)

I also hope you understand that the POTUS analogy was a "means to an end" albeit a crude, limiting & constricting one to lead to, likely slowly, further unravelling and explaining the evidence of the deity of Christ.

How can you know my stance (i.e. . . . reveals where you are coming from and where you are at . . .) without quoting me

The unaswered questions shown below asked that you unceremoniously parried are actually pivotal & relevant to this post.

Quote from e36991 on October 20, 2010, 09:00 PM]

Moving swiftly on. Now question, if God is Spirit

1) How without usurping, can God legally operate on earth?

2) What is the criteria that permits God to exist or live legally on earth?

3) What status must God have or does God need to legally gain entry on earth?

Answers to the above will likely shed some light on or reveal some of the Evidence Of The Deity Of Christ and the relevance of God the Son

[/quote]

Shame you waived the questions off and brushed them aside

[quote author=OLAADEGBU:


God too is not deaf that He cannot hear us but our iniquities have separated between God and us

- that is the reason why God had to become man so as to bridge the gap and reconcile us back to God.

Preachers proclaim the word of GOD

Teachers explain the word of GOD

You should be able to explain further the above texts in bold with more vigour

Simply banding out quotes from the scripture

and referencing the likes of Derek Prince alone is not suffice to persuade the likes in Kola Oloye's league

Be back . . .

@kola oloye:

kola oloye:

I'm not deaf but can God be killed by what He created and for what purpose?
He could have overlooked our sins and say : 'your sins are forgiven' knowing fully well that He cannot be queried.

The highlighted above is another argument against the Deity of Christ that betrays your former Islamic background. It shows the faulty Islamic understanding of the nature of God's Holiness and the terrible price of sin.

Killed? Men do not in the normal course of things go willingly to die but contrast this! Jesus was fully in control, He willingly lay down His life. . .and took it up again, demonstrating once and for all eternity that He is Lord of all, even death---the greatest enemy of Man:

John 10:17-18. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He lay down His life to atone for our sins: as God had clearly shown in the scriptures that "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin."

The apostles in proclaiming the risen Christ described Him as the Holy One---one of the titles of Jehovah!
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Now you realize they were devout God-fearing Jews and to the devout Jewish mind, the Holy One is God Himself.
Here are some OT verses showing that. . .
Psalm 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psalm 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
Isaiah 30:15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

Indeed by their words and deeds the apostles and disciples proclaimed the Deity of Jesus Christ.
John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
^^Please notice Thomas' words: How do you explain that?
God is the One who is worshipped, not so? And in the very pages of scripture we find these words:
John 9:38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Luke 24:52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Who is the one being worshipped here? None other than Jesus Christ! The same Jesus who said:
Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
And here we see Him being worshipped by Jews who were undoubtedly devoutly monotheistic. . .but confronted with the overwhelming evidence of who Jesus is; they couldn't help but respond like Thomas: "My Lord and my God." Is it recorded anywhere that Jesus rejected worship of Himself by any man?

Sadly the verse above ends with the words. . .but some doubted.

e36991:

Moving swiftly on. Now question, if God is Spirit

1) How without usurping, can God legally operate on earth?

2) What is the criteria that permits God to exist or live legally on earth?

3) What status must God have or does God need to legally gain entry on earth?

Answers to the above will likely shed some light on or reveal some of the Evidence Of The Deity Of Christ and the relevance of God the Son

OK. Let me make an attempt at your posers.

1. How without usurping, can God legally operate on earth?

God has to step out of eternity and take up humanity, to become flesh and blood. This happened when the Second Person in the godhead was supernaturally born through Virgin Mary and became the perfect sacrifice for humankind.

2) What is the criteria that permits God to exist or live legally on earth?

To partake of flesh and blood.

3) What status must God have or does God need to legally gain entry on earth?

To become a man.

e36991:

@OLAADEGBU

Prechers proclaim the word of GOD

Teachers explain the word of GOD

You should be able to explain further the above texts in bold with more vigour

Simply banding out quotes from the scripture

and referencing the likes of Derek Prince alone is not suffice to persuade the likes in Kola Oloye's league

Be back . . .

Who told you am a teacher? What I simply meant was that the Son of God became the Son of Man so as to make man become the sons of God.

OLAADEGBU:


OK.  Let me make an attempt at your posers.

1. How without usurping, can God legally operate on earth?

God has to step out of eternity and take up humanity, to become flesh and blood. 

This happened when the Second Person in the godhead was supernaturally born through Virgin Mary

and became the perfect sacrifice for humankind.

2) What is the criteria that permits God to exist or live legally on earth?

To partake of flesh and blood.

3) What status must God have or does God need to legally gain entry on earth?

To become a man.

Who told you am a teacher?  What I simply meant was that the Son of God became the Son of Man so as to make man become the sons of God.

@OLAADEGBU

Teach teacher!

I am honoured having you providing the answers

Thank you very much sire.

♪♫ . . . Those answers were finger-licking! ♪♫

♫ ♪ Omo dara tan. Baba ee lofi jor ♪♫

♫ ♪ Just like Daddy. Baba ee lofi jor ♪♫

♫ ♪ Those answers were good. Ati check ee. Baba ee lofi jor. ♫♪♫

♫ ♪ Omo Daddy . . . ♪♫

♫ ♪ Talk like Daddy! Omo Daddy!! . . . ♪♫   _{Fade out}

The answers you volunteered has got me excited. You can tell, Innit? They are brilliant!

Trust me. You are a teacher.

I mock you not saying you're a teacher. Please take it as a compliment it originally meant as.

Explaining the word of God to all nations qualifies you to be a teacher.

This is arduous. Wish time is a luxury.

Too much ground to cover, there is a lot to touch . . .

Understanding these answers paves the way for the foundational & stepping stones to build on to shed light on the evidence of the deity of Christ.

It is a long and painstaking task - Scripture here, with explanations. Scripture there, with explanations.

Back and forth, back and forth like.

Questioning to a void or better still until arriving at answers

These snippets John 1:1;3-5; 9-15 & 18 are very profound

John 1:1;3-5; 9-15 & 18 KJV:


¹In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

³All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

⁴In him was life; and the life was the light of men

⁵And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

⁹[That] was the[b] true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world[/b]

¹⁰He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not

¹¹He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

¹²But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

¹³Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God

¹⁴And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

¹⁵John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me

¹⁸No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

John was the only disciple that had this great & deep understanding of the deity of Jesus enough to express it distinctly the way he did in John 1

Just prior to Jesus' death, John was the only person & disciple that Jesus trusted enough to hand over His mother to.

These observations got me wondering.

Why?

Why and how did John receive these thoughtful revelations? (i.e. these here and those whilst on the Island of Patmos)

Why and how did John gain Jesus' trust to have the privilege to look after His mother for Him?

The answer was right in my face. Guessed right. Yup, in the scripture.

Be back . . .

@Aletheia: « #67 on: October 19, 2010, 10:56 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: kola oloye on October 19, 2010, 01:36 PM
You should also be able to tell me what God was trying to prove and to who by allowing himself
to be killed by what he created? God crying on the cross to himself for his own mercy?
Common use your head.

The highlighted above is where your problem lies: you left Islam but unfortunately some of the thought patterns and worldview of Islam still cling to you. If I removed Kola Oloye and substituted nopuqeater in the above quote; we wouldn't be able to tell the difference. My prayer is that the glorious light of the gospel of Jesus will remove these remaining cobwebs.[/Quote]I wonder if Aletheia saw the questioning mind of the still disbeliever Kola Oloye about what God was proofing by allowing Jews to kill Him? I now add, What will God be proofing by taking a son or child for Himself? What will God be proofing by allowing His prophet to be killed for sins, when He has always been the Only One Who forgives? He was the Only Forgiver for Adam and Eve. Even the Christian's Lord's Prayer says "Forgive us our sins". Not Jesus to forgive, because he has no power to forgive. He said of himself, he can do nothing.



[Quote]Again understand this: Jesus is the exact representation, the express image of the Invisible God:

Col 1:15-19. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;[/Quote]Apart from the fact that the above is nothing fro the mouth of Jesus, how is a powerless entity suddenly the creator or through him things were created? Please explain the liar to me; Jesus or the author of the above Biblical verse?



[Quote]John 1:18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.[/Quote]can you reconcile the bold with the lie that follows it? WHo is God's wife, anyway? You cant have a baby without a wife unless you are an adulterer. True God has no purpose for offspring. There is nothing that is not created by the Sole Creator. Talk to me, Aletheia.



[Quote]John 14:8-9. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?[/Quote]Are you saying that jesus was the father that Philip wanted to see? Then will the two verses above not be destroyed if this was true? Finally does it occur to all of you that Jesus was saying to the if you have the messenger in front of you , is that not enough as if you are seeing the Sender, since the Sender is not seen at anytime? I do recall that the Biblical verses were written after Jesus was ascended. Al the Jews called themselves, God, children of God, erroneously.



[Quote]Hebrews 1:3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;[/Quote]Is this not just coming from a zealot? Where is a single proof from the lips of Jesus? The one who is powerless to do anything.



[Quote]Now notice how Jesus is described in exactly the same terms as God.[/Quote]Were the above not descriptions by people, or whats your proof that each was from the lips of Jesus? Then stack them against "Your servant Jesus, who You sent". WHich one is the lie? talk to me Aletheia.



[Quote]1. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:[/Quote]Jesus said "Of my own power, I can do nothing". Now stack that against, "For by him were all things created". Which one is from a liar, Aletheia?



[Quote]Genesis 1:1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Hebrews 11:3. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.[/Quote]Please reconcile the two, with what kind of faith. You will never find an agreement, because jesus said "I can do nothing", "Jesus the servant, sent". Where are the thinking caps? Please wear them.



[Quote]John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.[/Quote] Where is this verse in the jewish Torah? Genesis is opposing this; which is the lie?

[Quote]2. all things were created by him, and for him:
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.[/Quote]"Of my own power, I can do nothing". Now which part is from a liar? The two are 180 degrees from each other. Aletheia, talk.



[Quote]This is a critical matter and goes to the heart of what it means to confess Jesus Christ.

1 John 4:2-3. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[/Quote]This is the worst argument you can ever have. Suppose a person makes this silly statement above, without a single evidence, you should not accept it. Lets take for a moment, we take out the name of jesus and insert dalil lama. There will not be a difference, because neither has any evidence to support such a claim. The God that cant be seen by anyone, at no time, all of a sudden becomes a fig eating, water drinking, cloth wearing, sleep catching, weary experiencing, hiding fro people, people torturing, and finally killed of by hanging God! Ridiculous.



[Quote]^^
Lay aside your preconceived notions and let the scriptures speak! What does this phrase: Jesus Christ is come in the flesh mean? What does it imply? Here is what the scriptures say:[/Quote]Soe lackie who cant take responsibility for himself wrote the bold.



[Quote]John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
But we know from verse 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[/Quote]Though it is not in the Torah of your asters, the jew. maybe you should read their Genesis to see if John verse 1 is not fro the pen of a liar. Try it for yourself.



[QUote]So when we confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh: we confess that God became flesh. This is the point on which Islam and Judaism and other false religions stumble. They all acknowledge Jesus as a Teacher, a Prophet, a Good Man but Jesus as God. . .somehow sticks in their craw because of the spirit of antichrist in them.[/QUote]And jews are the holder of christians' salvation. What a false religion they are. When jesus said he is a servant sent, maybe he lied. But why? Why would a "God" lies? I am wondering if it is not christianity that is the chief of the false religions? Please help me understand why Jesus said he is a servant and you said he is God? Why did he say he was powerless and you say he is the creator? was he hiding himself from everyone, then, afraid soebody will harm him, a God? Tell me whats going on.



[Quote]Indeed it is a mystery (something hidden) which God Himself has revealed and faith means believing what God has revealed not trying to rationalize it from a human perspective. But this mystery is declared in emphatic terms in the Bible.[/Quote]Mystery revealed. Revealed to whom? If jesus said he was a servant and powerless, was that not God enough, rather than the baseless irrational assumptions and ideas for your bad health? Here was a place were you failed the other day; The Quran says that the fluid that produces man comes from the region between the ribs and the backbone of the body. You almost had a feat laughing. After it was all said and done, you had to agree, except you stated that the Quran was referring to adults. When in that verse there was no age given and we know that male and females, if alive we grow to maturity. And in marriage the children of yesterday are the adults in marriages, today.

Now, show us how Mystery and revelation disagree with each other that we now have more unknowns, after all the revelations have been around for over 2000 years? You dont even believe it, except that it is the only card in your life. I now invite you to a revelation that destroys any and all mysteries. What you need to know to be responsible for yourself, from cradle to grave is in Quran, Sunnah/hadith.



[Quote]The Old Testament foreshadows it:
Hebrews 1:8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Isaiah 9:6. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/Quote]tell me who Jesus fits into any of this? Use son and tell me the mother of the child and the wife of the father. Use Governance and tell me where he rule from. Use his name, wonderful and or counselor and tell me why he promised "Another Counselor". Use God and tell me how is the Servant of God. Use Everlasting father when he has no child. Use prince of peace when he actually asked people to buy sword after selling their properties. Major Nidal of US armed forces sold or gave away everything he had, according to the report we had, and kept his weapon of choice. We know the rest as he killed people when he had the opportunity. He is now wheel chair bound. He was going to fight to the finish. I applied the same to Jesus and his sword wielding disciple. Except that they became cowards as they saw the mob approaching. I dont blame them. I will be cowards too, if my leader is.



[Quote]Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. (BTW: compare Ps 90:2. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.)[/QUote]Where is Jesus in any of this? Tell us Aletheia. You cant because it aint there. Show us with sense of clarity, if you can. I dare you.



[QUote]The New Testament proclaims it:
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.[/Quote]Is there a proof? Obviously not.



[Quote]May our Father in heaven grant you grace as you meditate on these.[/Quote]I hope your parent dont find out you are passing yourself up as another entity's child.

Sweetnecta:

@Aletheia: « #67 on: October 19, 2010, 10:56 PM »I wonder if Aletheia saw the questioning mind of the still disbeliever Kola Oloye about what God was proofing by allowing Jews to kill Him? I now add, What will God be proofing by taking a son or child for Himself? What will God be proofing by allowing His prophet to be killed for sins, when He has always been the Only One Who forgives? He was the Only Forgiver for Adam and Eve. Even the Christian's Lord's Prayer says "Forgive us our sins". Not Jesus to forgive, because he has no power to forgive. He said of himself, he can do nothing.

^^Most assuredly you jump in with little understanding of the matter in hand. . .I presume you are a Muslim for it appears that what got your goat was my allusion to the Islamic mindset and worldview. God wasn't proving anything. He was working out His divine plan: that through Jesus Christ, men will be reconciled to Him.
Jesus has authority to forgive sins. . .Mark 2:10-12 "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion."

Sweetnecta:

Apart from the fact that the above is nothing fro the mouth of Jesus, how is a powerless entity suddenly the creator or through him things were created? Please explain the liar to me; Jesus or the author of the above Biblical verse?

The dichotomy only exists in your mind: it is not either Jesus lied or the Bible lied, but rather both Jesus and the Bible are true. . .John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Romans 3:4 "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."

The scriptures do testify and bear witness that Jesus is the Son of God. If you do not believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess that Jesus is Saviour then you will perish in your sins and go to Hell.

Sweetnecta:

can you reconcile the bold with the lie that follows it? WHo is God's wife, anyway? You cant have a baby without a wife unless you are an adulterer. True God has no purpose for offspring. There is nothing that is not created by the Sole Creator. Talk to me, Aletheia.

^^As a carnal man you think, and as a carnal man you ask,. . ."how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."¹ But "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"² And He says to you "my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."³
You do not understand the Mystery of the Incarnation because you are in darkness. . ."the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."⁴ If men are declared to be sons of God by God Himself: "[w]hich were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."⁵; how much more the only Begotten Son. Your problem as all those of Islamic persuasion is a false understanding of the nature of God and Man, for you can only conceive of son-ship in biological terms and no wonder adoption is prohibited in Islam.

1 Matthew 12:34
2 Numbers 23:19
3 Isaiah 55:8
4 John 1:5
5 John 1:13

Sweetnecta:

Is this not just coming from a zealot? Where is a single proof from the lips of Jesus? The one who is powerless to do anything.

^On the Day when you appear before His Judgment Seat; you will find out whether He is powerless or not.

Sweetnecta:

. . .talk to me Aletheia.

The question is whether you will listen and pay heed or continue with your combative disputations. In any case go back and read this thread from the beginning.

@Aletheia; « #113 on: Today at 08:02:03 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 05:27:12 PM
@Aletheia: « #67 on: October 19, 2010, 10:56 PM »I wonder if Aletheia saw the questioning mind of the still disbeliever Kola Oloye about what God was proofing by allowing Jews to kill Him? I now add, What will God be proofing by taking a son or child for Himself? What will God be proofing by allowing His prophet to be killed for sins, when He has always been the Only One Who forgives? He was the Only Forgiver for Adam and Eve. Even the Christian's Lord's Prayer says "Forgive us our sins". Not Jesus to forgive, because he has no power to forgive. He said of himself, he can do nothing.
^^Most assuredly you jump in with little understanding of the matter in hand. . .I presume you are a Muslim for it appears that what got your goat was my allusion to the Islamic mindset and worldview. God wasn't proving anything. He was working out His divine plan: that through Jesus Christ, men will be reconciled to Him.[/Quote]Prove it. Give us evidence fro OT and NT, and we must not be able to find any verse to disproof it.



[Quote]J[b]esus has authority to forgive sins[/b]. . .Mark 2:10-12 "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion."[/Quote]Healing the sick is now "Forgiveness of sin". Does this gel at all? Sin is not sickness, because Job was not a sinner and sinful pharaoh did not get sick. Finally, we dont see a sick Satan, or have you seen one, especially when he was bossing Jesus of the Bible around the places?



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 05:27:12 PM
Apart from the fact that the above is nothing fro the mouth of Jesus, how is a powerless entity suddenly the creator or through him things were created? Please explain the liar to me; Jesus or the author of the above Biblical verse?
The dichotomy only exists in your mind: it is not either Jesus lied or the Bible lied, but rather both Jesus and the Bible are true. . .John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."[/Quote]Everything I said is from the Bible. Jesus said he was a powerless person, unable to do anything by his power. Thats powerless. In Yoruba land thats enu dun ro fo. Agada owo dun be ko. You are the one whose mind is in a fog. Otherwise you would have been able to say "wait a minute, he has no power of his own".



[Quote]Romans 3:4 "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.[/Quote]Roman is after Gospel. Jesus left the earth before the Acts. Roman was after acts. How could be part of this statement? I could just tell you am king of Cheyenne. How do you disproof it, except you know where Cheyenne is and you find out a not the king. Same thing applies to Jesus here. Gospel is where you said he preached from. Fro Gospel we know some truth in there. To give me Roman to argue for Jesus is like lying to me and thinking that I will accept it. Did Jesus preach anything in Roman?



[Quote]The scriptures do testify and bear witness that Jesus is the Son of God. If you do not believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess that Jesus is Saviour then you will perish in your sins and go to Hell.[/Quote]Irekerindo of Fagunwa [its been a long time I read yoruba literature], testifies that Oke Lamgbodo exist in Yoruba Land. You think my similitude is bad? Your statement about a testimony of the scripture is worse.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Today at 05:27:12 PM
can you reconcile the bold with the lie that follows it? WHo is God's wife, anyway? You cant have a baby without a wife unless you are an adulterer. True God has no purpose for offspring. There is nothing that is not created by the Sole Creator. Talk to me, Aletheia.



^^As a carnal man you think, and as a carnal man you ask,. . .[/QUote]And you have never had sex? I hope at your age you are married. All that success will go to waste.



[Quote]"how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."1 But "God is not a man, that he should lie;[/Quote]The man named Jesus was not God.



[Quote]neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it?[/Quote]God regretted, making man. Check your Bible.



[Quote]or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?[/QUote]Jesus said he will return while the disciples were still alive. He didnt. He said the another comforter will speak only what he heard from God. You people made a Ghost out of the Another Comforter. SO tell tell me, how did Ghost speak to man who can only hear audible things/sounds? What did the ghost say to the disciples as in corrdction of them, since they needed correction because they have gotten what jesus taught wrong?



[Quote]"2 And He says to you "my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD."[/Quote]How does this explain anything?



[Quote]3 You do not understand the Mystery of the Incarnation because you are in darkness. . ."the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."[/Quote]Since youunderstand the "MYSETRY" of Incarnation,give it to me in simple human so that human mind can grab it knowledge. {helo folks, this man is going to go around in circle and returns with zero information. Watch him goof around}.



[Quote] 4 If men are declared to be sons of God by God Himself: "[w]hich were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."5; how much more the only Begotten Son.[/Quote]Begotten. Sired. Means mount and actually have sexual intercourse. This is God or man? My God created Adam from dirt.He changed dirt to flesh, blood, bones, skin, etc. From a mere Rib of Adam, He made Eve. Completely matured woman. And you find it difficult that He can make a man from his mother's womb without a male sperm, unless He must be his Father? My statement has no mystery to it, while yours is wrapped in it.



[Quote]Your problem as all those of Islamic persuasion is a false understanding of the nature of God and Man, for you can only conceive of son-ship in biological terms and no wonder adoption is prohibited in Islam.[/QUote]Adoption is not prohibited in Islam. What is prohibited is taking up adoptive name and completely severing blood ties with real blood in the vein. My wife and I are working on adopting a female child from Nigeria. Your prejudices will never let you smell the great fragrance of True Belief. Is there anyway to become a true father and mother than legal sexual relationship? I hope you are not one of those who donate his sperm for would be single ladies? How is God a father of any of His creations? Please explain. Explain how the servant of God is now God or His son? You know better than Jesus, the Messenger?



[Quote]1 Matthew 12:34
2 Numbers 23:19
3 Isaiah 55:8
4 John 1:5
5 John 1:13[/Quote]Let me amuse you for a change. Some few years ago, my cousin who is a Christian was praying. I heard her say "Jewo agbara e". I begin to ask myself if she knew what she was talking about? Confess your Power? She was actually saying that to God? I knew she was completely lost. I am now working on bringing her back to her senses. Maybe the above is also for you; bringing you to your senses.

@Sweetnecta: I 'd rather not talk to you at this time. Your objections have been comprehensively trashed on other threads on this forum. Search for them and read with an enquiring mind.

Changed my mind because I have not yet discussed with you as Sweetnecta (though your writing style is suspiciously similar to nopuqeater's) and you don't know as much of islam as you think: yet want to disprove the Bible.

Sweetnecta:

@Aletheia; « #113 on: Today at 08:02:03 PM »Prove it. Give us evidence fro OT and NT, and we must not be able to find any verse to disproof it.

Already done that here, here, here and here. Please make time to study the verses referenced not just skim over them looking for debating points.

Sweetnecta:

Healing the sick is now "Forgiveness of sin". Does this gel at all? Sin is not sickness, because Job was not a sinner and sinful pharaoh did not get sick. Finally, we dont see a sick Satan, or have you seen one, especially when he was bossing Jesus of the Bible around the places?

Read it again: in your haste to look for counter-arguments, you missed the part highlighted in red: Mark 2:10-12 "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion."

Sweetnecta:

Everything I said is from the Bible. Jesus said he was a powerless person, unable to do anything by his power. Thats powerless. In Yoruba land thats enu dun ro fo. Agada owo dun be ko. You are the one whose mind is in a fog. Otherwise you would have been able to say "wait a minute, he has no power of his own".

Show me where Jesus said He was powerless in the Bible. Like I pointed out to another earlier, He was fully in control.

Men do not in the normal course of things go willingly to die but contrast this! Jesus was fully in control, He willingly lay down His life. . .and took it up again, demonstrating once and for all eternity that He is Lord of all, even death---the greatest enemy of Man:

John 10:17-18. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

He lay down His life to atone for our sins: as God had clearly shown in the scriptures that "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin."

^As you can see Jesus Christ conquered death and is alive today as even Islam acknowledges; where is Muhammed? Dead and grave-bound.

Sweetnecta:

Roman is after Gospel. Jesus left the earth before the Acts. Roman was after acts. How could be part of this statement? I could just tell you am king of Cheyenne. How do you disproof it, except you know where Cheyenne is and you find out a not the king. Same thing applies to Jesus here. Gospel is where you said he preached from. Fro Gospel we know some truth in there. To give me Roman to argue for Jesus is like lying to me and thinking that I will accept it. Did Jesus preach anything in Roman?

This is rich, coming from you a Muslim whose book is without chronological rhyme, reason or context. Tell me which of these suras in your qur'an was revealed earliest: 1, 2, 3, 4? Isn't it true that none of this was the first? Muhammed did not write the hadiths, yet without the structure provided by them Islam would collapse, since there is very little in the qur'an to go on.

The whole Bible testifies of Jesus, so whether Ruth, Romans or Revelations: I will quote from anyway in it. No apologies for that.

Sweetnecta:

And you have never had sex? I hope at your age you are married. All that success will go to waste.

Apparent that you and I speak different languages. Carnal in the Biblical context is not sex. So let me interpret for you: As a carnal (flesh-bound) man you think, and as a carnal (flesh-bound) man you ask,. . .Moreover: (Romans 8:6- For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Sweetnecta:

The man named Jesus was not God.

The man born blind cannot comprehend the sun. . .(1 John 4:2-3) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Others before you have said likewise; follower of al-maseeh al-Dajjaal (Antichrist). Strange to think that Islam talks of the antichrist, yet rejects the True Christ.

Sweetnecta:

God regretted, making man. Check your Bible.

Where does it say so?

Sweetnecta:

Jesus said he will return while the disciples were still alive. He didnt.

Really, is that what John 21:22-23 says:
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
Or Matthew 24:34; Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Sweetnecta:

Adoption is not prohibited in Islam. . .My wife and I are working on adopting a female child from Nigeria.

Really? I 'm sure you are confused as to what adoption means. Are you sure you are a real Muslim?
Below are direct quotes from an Islamic website here

Islam prohibits adoption but allows Muslims to raise children who are not theirs. . .The raised child cannot inherit from the people who raised him/her

Here is the qur'anic verse supporting the prohibition:
"Allah" has not assigned unto any man two hearts within his body, nor has He made your wives who you declare (to be your mothers) your mothers, nor has He made those who you claim (to be your children) your children. How can he, when al-ilah knows nothing of love?

The underlying reason why Islam prohibits adoption is spiritual because the spirit of Islam opposes everything that pertains to Jesus Christ. Islam prohibits adoption because it rejects the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross through the shedding of his Blood for the remission of our sins.

Praise be to Our Father in heaven who has adopted us into His family:
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Definition of adoption: To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.

Hey Sweetnecta is his new ID cos the Moderators have been bais and banned nopuqeater so what do you expecting him to stop defend what he believe in most? if i was banned today i will be coming back within a twinkle of an eye with new ID so no offense

So Sweetnecta is nopuqeater. Hmmm

It took you that long to get it. You are slow, faa. No wonder you wrote Joonuu as Johanuu. Your ti ibile is poor, at best.

@Aletheia: « #116 on: Today at 06:57:04 AM »
[Quote]Changed my mind because I have not yet discussed with you as Sweetnecta (though your writing style is suspiciously similar to nopuqeater's) and you don't know as much of islam as you think: yet want to disprove the Bible.

Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
@Aletheia; « #113 on: Today at 08:02:03 PM »Prove it. Give us evidence fro OT and NT, and we must not be able to find any verse to disproof it.

Already done that here, here, here and here. Please make time to study the verses referenced not just skim over them looking for debating points.[/Quote]You are a time waster. here, here, here and here were nothing more than conjecture; Gospels according to, Corinthians, Romans, etc. Are these the words of God, or the words of Jesus His servant whom He sent? I hope some day you will wake up and realize how foolish your thinking "had" been,when you look back. These verses are similar to a man or men hardcover story of my life 100 years from now, saying that in 2010, i was the president of your current place of employment. I will not be here to say no, and you will not be here to say he wasnt the man writing the checks. It is even worse as a story line.


[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
Healing the sick is now "Forgiveness of sin". Does this gel at all? Sin is not sickness, because Job was not a sinner and sinful pharaoh did not get sick. Finally, we dont see a sick Satan, or have you seen one, especially when he was bossing Jesus of the Bible around the places?

Read it again: in your haste to look for counter-arguments, you missed the part highlighted in red: Mark 2:10-12 "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins[b][/b], (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion."[/Quote]Aletheia, you are so slow. I asked, is sin equal to sickness? Is sickness equal to sin? What sin did the sick an commit that mere curing hi of illness translated to been forgiven of sin? Heck, you are a physician. You cure people of sicknesses. At least thats what your patients think. So did you forgive the of their sins, each tie you cure them of their sicknesses? A person who has frequent headaches must be sinning just as frequent. Think, doctor. This is a disappointment.

@Aletheia: Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
[Quote]Everything I said is from the Bible. Jesus said he was a powerless person, unable to do anything by his power. Thats powerless. In Yoruba land thats enu dun ro fo. Agada owo dun be ko. You are the one whose mind is in a fog. Otherwise you would have been able to say "wait a minute, he has no power of his own".

Show me where Jesus said He was powerless in the Bible. Like I pointed out to another earlier, He was fully in control.[/Quote]Swallow hard, aletheia. Just dont choke from your own juice. No one to perform CPR. Okay? John 5 verse 30; I can do nothing on my own. [/b]I judge as God tells me [Authority is from God]. Therefore, [because it is God that is in Authority, directing me, His servant] my judgment [as obedient servant of God] is just, because I carry out the will of the one who sent me, not my own will



[Quote]Quote
Men do not in the normal course of things go willingly to die but contrast this! [b]Jesus was fully in control, He willingly lay down His life. . .and took it up again, demonstrating once and for all eternity that He is Lord of all, even death---the greatest enemy of Man:[/Quote]The willing guy in full control, all of a sudden yelled up, and aloud "My God,y God. . . . why has thou forsaken me"? The bold in this verse is a sign of disbelief. Blaming God. Satan did something similar. Considering that Jesus according to the Bible prayed all night at the Garden of Geshamine on this. Yet he goofed. He dropped the ball, while the little son of Abraham did his like a brave believer.



[Quote]John 10:17-18. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.[/Quote]I will ignore the rest because I may do overkill on it. The bold was rendered useless, if that was the case, by the yelling on the cross, before giving up the ghost.



[Quote]He lay down His life to atone for our sins: as God had clearly shown in the scriptures that "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin."
^As you can see Jesus Christ conquered death and is alive today as even Islam acknowledges; where is Muhammed? Dead and grave-bound.
[/Quote]Where is his arrest of the "death"? Dont christians die, any more? Will no christians end up in lake of fire? Let me give you a hint; ' i never knew you', even as they tell him in heaven that they 'performed greater miracles in his name'.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
Roman is after Gospel. Jesus left the earth before the Acts. Roman was after acts. How could be part of this statement? I could just tell you am king of Cheyenne. How do you disproof it, except you know where Cheyenne is and you find out a not the king. Same thing applies to Jesus here. Gospel is where you said he preached from. Fro Gospel we know some truth in there. To give me Roman to argue for Jesus is like lying to me and thinking that I will accept it. Did Jesus preach anything in Roman?

This is rich, coming from you a Muslim whose book is without chronological rhyme,[/Quote]Read end of Baqarah and the beginning surah Imran. Read end of Surah Rahman and the beginning of Waqiah. Which Surah is off place? Lawyers are at awe of the great arguments in Quran. Poets are smitteed by its rhymed. If you listen, it is the most melodious sound you will ever heard. Birds will stop singing when they hear Quran. Sorry your heart is dead to reason, otherwise, you will just go and buy a complete tape, and play it in your garden and you will see birds listening. Quran is the classic arabic, except you will say the arabic language is inferior to yoruba, the language of a group who left Makka before Islam of Muhammad [as].



[Quote]and reason or context.[/Quote]The fiqh of Quran is a great scholarship. You dont know that Quran was completely reveaed in Heaven as part of Umm Kitab logged at Lautin Maffuth. Allah let the action that will bring the specific verse to occur on earth so that the answer comes as the problem arises.



[Quote]Tell me which of these suras in your qur'an was revealed earliest: 1, 2, 3, 4?[/Quote]The bold was, and Jibril came with 70,000 Angels to give Rasulullah (AS) this "Ummu Kitab, also known as the Seven often recited Chapter, also known as the Opening Chapter. It is a complete Prayer, Supplication, Request from God. The whole Quran from Baqarah and Naas "is" the answer. Its a guidance and road map for success. You will not know it because you anchor your hope on a "" servant.



[Quote]Isn't it true that none of this was the first?[/QUote]You are a doctor. Use your marble, not your elbow. You gave me surah 1 through 4 and the earliest among them I told you. Which Surah has the first revelation? It is Alaq. You dont know what Alaq means, do you? Creation. You and I are part of humanity, fro creation. Allah mentioned pen in there. Who was the first to use pen? I will tell you; Idris (AS) Enoch who was eleveated to 3rd heaven, while Isa bin Marya (AS) is with Yahya bin Zakariyya (AS) in 2nd heaven above first where our father Adam (AS) is.



[Quote]Muhammed did not write the hadiths,[/Quote]He is unlettered. You are correct. Please watch how InshaAllah, am going to make a mess of his plan, just right below.



[Quote]yet without the structure provided by them Islam would collapse, since there is very little in the qur'an to go on.[/Quote]You have no tangible knowledge at all by the bold which you penned. Surah 112 has the of 1/3 of the whole Quran. Read it. It is called Surah Iklas. It talks about Oneness of God, negating your ghost, father and son gods. It also kills all the Isms (Judaism, Hinduis, etc) by saying that God is Complete and Independent of being cornered as a tribal God which is the idea of jewish god; God of Abraha, Isaac and jacob they say and you you say it with them, forgetting He is the God of Adam, Eve, and all mankind and all creation[s]. Let me ask you, what hadith do you need to know that 1 is just that,1? There are good parts of the Quran that a clean heart will read and know right away without any hadith.

Let e give you an example; Quran says, how will God have a child when He does not have a consort [mate]? Another in Surah Maidah says oh people of the books, do not go into excess in your saying concerning your Lord, "Christians", dont say God is 1 of the 3. Desist from saying it. Rather, He is One your Lord, there is none but He.

Aletheia, where did I loose [shake you off] you? By the way, in every salah I read Chapter 112 3 times to get foot blessing of the whole Quran. This is Mercy that is unparallel. can your Bible offer the same value? Oh. You have to depend on the other guy, who depended on Allah.



[Quote]The whole Bible testifies of Jesus, so whether Ruth, Romans or Revelations: I will quote from anyway in it. No apologies for that.[/Quote]Show me Jesus without your usual cloudy inferences when Moses was dealing with Pharaoh. Am waiting, man.

@Aletheia; Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
[Quote]And you have never had sex? I hope at your age you are married. All that success will go to waste.

Apparent that you and I speak different languages. Carnal in the Biblical context is not sex. So let me interpret for you: As a carnal (flesh-bound) man you think, and as a carnal (flesh-bound) man you ask,. . .Moreover: (Romans 8:6- For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.[/Quote]All the functions which make man alive, food, drink, sex, all of them are there. Which one is not Carnal? Worship, if done properly is not carnal, but spiritual. Otherwise satan deceiving him that he is doing proper worship, while he is lost and far gone. Those who are not worshiping as Jesus did, at the Garden when he prostrated his face to God (Tahajjud) are in carnal, when they think that they are worshiping. Every mind is subject to the Law of God, because God gives Free Will. Oh, aletheia, you argue like an undeveloped carnal mind, at that. You need to have a matured mind.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
The man named Jesus was not God.
The man born blind cannot comprehend the sun. . .(1 John 4:2-3)[/Quote]He feels the heat of the midday sun, doesnt he? You see why the Bible is weak in reasoning?



[Quote] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[/QUote]Before now, is there a window to say to us God Almighty will come in the mist of man, as man? Show it to me, Aletheia. I know you know better than this. You are a living proof of the hadith that it is the parents that makes them disbelievers, away from Islam. With all that brain, see the way you are cajoled by nothingness? Show me how God leaves His Honored Position and dragged Himself as you said He did? I know you know better; you a human being will not go to a not befitting gathering in your native Nigeria? Or you still hang out with high school kids in their Saturday afternoon dormitory get together?



[Quote]Others before you have said likewise; follower of al-maseeh al-Dajjaal (Antichrist). Strange to think that Islam talks of the antichrist, yet rejects the True Christ.[/QUote]Can you give me a description of Massiah Dajjal (Lanatullahi Ta'ala)? Is Jesus God, from your own belief? What will Antichrist be then? What is Lucifer then? Between Lucifer and Antichrist, who will be the one alive when the other is dead? I am giving you brain food. I pray it benefits you, because I dont want you to die in ignorance.



[QUote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
God regretted, making man. Check your Bible.
Where does it say so? [/Quote]Genesis 6/6-7 God says: “I am grieved that I have made man” (NIV)
“And it repented the Lord that He had made man on earth” (KJV)
1 Samuel 15/11 God says: “I am grieved that I have made Saul a king” (NIV)
“It repenteth me that I have set Saul a king” (KJV)
2 Samuel 24/16 says: “the Lord was grieved, ” (NIV)
See also 1 Chronicles 21/15



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
Jesus said he will return while the disciples were still alive. He didnt.
Really, is that what John 21:22-23 says:
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?
Or Matthew 24:34; Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.[/Quote]You need a pastor> I hate to play one this evening. The disciples are all dead. I hope you know that, by now.

Matthew 16:28, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." Luke 21:32, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
He makes similar statements in Luke 9:27 and Mark 9:1.



[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 10:00:06 PM
Adoption is not prohibited in Islam. . .My wife and I are working on adopting a female child from Nigeria.
Really? I 'm sure you are confused as to what adoption means. Are you sure you are a real Muslim?[/Quote]Lol. Ele eke ebu. Yes. I know what adoption is. yes. I am a muslim.



[Quote]Below are direct quotes from an Islamic website here
Quote
Islam prohibits adoption but allows Muslims to raise children who are not theirs. . .The raised child [b]cannot inherit [/b]from the people who raised him/her[/Quote]Raising a child without changing their last name and severing them from their bloodline. Thats how we adopt, since we do not want the adopted child to marry his/her own blood sibling while not marrying ours because of nurturing, forgetting nature. Allah says "Call them by their father's name". Islam being the ultimate freedom platform for a woman, she bears her father's name, still in marriage. Can your religion permit that? Am sure your wife had since forgotten her father's name, bearing yours instead. You as a doctor should know that artificial institution is what you have of today;s so called adoption; when an adopted child is hit with a disease that is not known in the family. WHo do you run to so that your adopted child lives? His blood parents, relations. Dont be an oppressor by saying to a chid that may need your care that he/she bears your name or nothing. Finally, legacy is what an adopted child gets from you; good education, and all the works, which are in your will, as promissory.



[Quote]Here is the qur'anic verse supporting the prohibition:
"Allah" has not assigned unto any man two hearts within his body, nor has He made your wives who you declare (to be your mothers) your mothers, nor has He made those who you claim (to be your children) your children. How can he, when al-ilah knows nothing of love?[/Quote]And my wife bears her father's name while yours bears your father's name. I guess she is your adopted daughter? Or is it dad that adopted her and you got her for your own? You want to keep it in the family, uhhhhn? Am joking with you here, because I want to open your mid up to reality. Adopting a person without changing their blood name, and not isolating them is a noble thing, because they need to pull up the blood line from the success they achieve through your kindness. This is Islam, and christianity lacks it.



[Quote]The underlying reason why Islam prohibits adoption is spiritual because the spirit of Islam opposes everything that pertains to Jesus Christ.[/Quote]I wonder where Jesus entered this argument, while my above explanation is not enough? Was Jesus adopted? Who is the adoptive father? Who was the blood father, the husband of the mother as Aletheia is the husband of Mrs. Aletheia? I know you will run from this.



[Quote]Islam prohibits adoption because it rejects the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross through the shedding of his Blood for the remission of our sins.[/Quote]? Are you okay, ogbeni oja? You are not making any sense.



[Quote]Praise be to Our Father in heaven who has adopted us into His family:[/Quote]Who is your mother, the wife of father for the adoption to stick?



[Quote]
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.[/QUote]The mumbo jumbo, again. Sudden conclusions without merit. WHere is the evidence for your statement? God is now a Nigerian?



[Quote]Quote
Definition of adoption: To take into one's family through legal means and raise as one's own child.[/QUote]Where is the need for changing of the family name, or selfishly making sure the blood line is severed? You must be a selfish human being. By the way I bear father;s islamic name. My siblings bear the yoruba name of our family tree. Both of us are correct, though we have different last names.

Wonders shall never end.
SWEETNECTA knows much of the Bible than he knows of the Quran.
Keep up the good works - Pastor in the making.

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
And what is the truth? Jesus said:'I am the way,the truth and live. . '
Embrace Jesus before it is too late.

^^^^^The words of a drunk.

Proof that he is a drunk; See his emocom. he is laughing instead of crying.

In Abeokuta, the best of them are all muslims. Abeokuta never produce a good seed, except that he is a muslim.


Go to the thread about the 7 year old phenom. She is a muslim.

You are so confused you design three gods for yourself.

Do you have authority from God that He is 3, or 1 of the 3?

@kola here is the link incase you can't find it that is a product of muslim family have religion ever produce that?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-535289.64.html

Sweetnecta:

^^^^^The words of a drunk.

Proof that he is a drunk; See his emocom. he is laughing instead of crying.

In Abeokuta, the best of them are all muslims. Abeokuta never produce a good seed, except that he is a muslim.


Go to the thread about the 7 year old phenom. She is a muslim.

You are so confused you design three gods for yourself.

Do you have authority from God that He is 3, or 1 of the 3?

I have told you times without number that God is one.
I don't believe in 3 Gods.My faith stands on JOHN 3:16.

In Christianity there is something called GRACE- "Go and sin no more"which Islam had no provision for.
Do you know that 75% of Muslims that we have in the world today are going about their daily businesses
with charms in their pockets?Their total trust is not in Allah.
Won tun ma ndi tira mo ara.Won a tun maa mu hantu.

Some are still worshiping ogun,telling you that: Imale ko ni ki awa ma se oro ile.

He that wants to serve God must serve him is spirit and in truth.
I rest my case.

kola oloye:


I have told you times without number that God is one.
I don't believe in 3 Gods.My faith stands on JOHN 3:16.

So your own Xtain is diffrent from the other did you ever hear this Olorun Meta lokan (3in1 gods) did that ring bell at all.

kola oloye:


In Christianity there is something called GRACE- "Go and sin no more"which Islam had no provision for.

what Grace are you talking about pls dont make me laugh here

kola oloye:


Do you know that 75% of Muslims that we have in the world today are going about their daily businesses
with charms in their pockets?Their total trust is not in Allah.
Won tun ma ndi tira mo ara.Won a tun maa mu hantu.

Some are still worshiping ogun,telling you that: Imale ko ni ki awa ma se oro ile.

He that wants to serve God must serve him is spirit and in truth.
I rest my case.

Well do you have any proof of Muslim going about with charms just a proof. Unlike your pator's who visit herbalist for charms to use on your to believe them if you want some proof i'll always provide you with some and beside most of your pastors are member of the underworld do you know that? you are here spitting on your PC talking rubish give me a proof of those muslims going about With charms.