[size=18pt]As inspired by my brother Babasola Kuti: to all my Fellow Christain brothers and sisters crying blue murder becos CBN has approved Islamic Banking: shut up and go to your Billionare Jet buying Pastors and tell them to use that money to open Christain No Interest Banks and see if CBN will not register it. my people really perish for lack of knowledge[/size]

Read this from somewhere and i 100% support every word here.

Most Christians in Nigeria are ignorant and double mouthed and it's getting very sickening.


I don't know where this thread fits, so MOD abeg move am to where you see it fit.

Mods need to place it in the Religion/Business Section - Or maybe duplicate the thread in both sections - 

Another Crazy Moslem Dude. (Cry me a Desert)

Sun of god, op is a christian F. Y. I

Mods, this brainless thread does not belong to this section.

Sun of god:

Mods need to place it in the Religion/Business Section - Or maybe duplicate the thread in both sections - 

Another Crazy Moslem Dude. (Cry me a Desert)

Grow up, i am a christian but not a blind and ignorant one.

satani22:

Sun of god, op is a christian F. Y. I

Even satani knows i am a christian lol

Andre Uweh:

Mods, this brainless thread does not belong to this section.

Brainless? yet you posted on it? what does that make you?

Andre Uweh:

Mods, this brainless thread does not belong to this section.

You're too old to be posting like a reckless drunk.

Andre Uweh:

Mods, this brainless thread does not belong to this section.

Oh yes it does and what a fantastic thread it is too!!  I believe it touches on aspects of christianity that are very relevant to the world we live in today and to the economic order.  Ie. Capitalism. 

It is my opinion that Capitalism is 99.99999999% evil.  The bible ban usury, christianity forbade usury, muslims forbade it too.  So tell me, how come it is the cornerstone of the world economic order today?  Why was it so frowned upon by God in the bible?  What does it do to societies that made it so detestible to God in the bible?

Now the meaning of Usury has been twisted to mean charging excessive interest on a loan, but in actual fact the meaning is the charging of interest, any interest, on a loan.

To me it shows one of the darker side of Judaism, as a religion.  The reason that Jews are the financiers of the world today, in fact they are probably the ones that really developed banking in Europe, is because though God forbid them to practice usury amongst themselves he said it is okay for them to practice usury on non-Jews. 

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

Deuteronomy 23:20 Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.

Knowing how harmful it is to a social order why permit it to be done to anyone at all.  It is like saying, don't murder your neighbour but you can murder a foreigner. What kind of wickedness is that?!!

Since Jews could not practice usury on themselves but could practice usury on others, and Christians themselves were not permitted to practice usury to anybody (in fact usurers were amongst the most detested people in christian societies who were not even allowed to partake of the sacraments), then it followed that Jews became the source of capital in europe.  This is what created the European image of Jews as a money grubbing people.  Remember Shylock the Jew from Merchant of Venice (Shakespeare). 

    [Exodus 22:25] If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.

    [Leviticus 25:36] Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.

    [Leviticus 25:37] Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

    [Deuteronomy 23:19] Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

    [Deuteronomy 23:20] Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Lateran III decreed that persons who accepted interest on loans could receive neither the sacraments nor Christian burial.[10] Pope Clement V made the belief in the right to usury a heresy in 1311, and abolished all secular legislation which allowed it.[11] Pope Sixtus V condemned the practice of charging interest as "detestable to God and man, damned by the sacred canons and contrary to Christian charity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Usury (in the original sense of any interest) was at times denounced by a number of religious leaders and philosophers in the ancient world, including Plato, Aristotle, Cato, Cicero, Seneca,[17] Aquinas,[18] Muhammad,[19] Moses,[citation needed] Philo[citation needed] and Gautama Buddha[citation needed].[20]

For example, Cato in his De Re Rustica said:

    "And what do you think of usury?" — "What do you think of murder?"

But one must always consider that usury, in historical context, has always been inextricably linked to economic abuses, mostly of the masses and of the poor; but sometimes of the financier and royalty, as bankrupt royalty has led to many a demise, thus frowning upon lending at interest or for a euphemistic "just profit"[clarification needed]. The main moral argument is that usury creates excessive profit and gain without "labor" which is deemed "work" in the Biblical context. Profits from usury are argued not to arise from any substantial labor or work but from mere avarice, greed, trickery and manipulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Since it was once thought in Europe that Usurer were most definitely the highest candidates for Hell, (in fact Dante in his Inferno the 7th Circle of Hell is reserved for them amongst murderers and homosexuals), so the question is how did it rise to become the corner stone of European economy in the modern age? 
This is a long history that will take us back to Italy in the medieval ages and plenty of time to unravel, so I'll leave that for another day, and another post.

honeric01:

[size=18pt]As inspired by my brother Babasola Kuti: to all my Fellow Christain brothers and sisters crying blue murder becos CBN has approved Islamic Banking: shut up and go to your Billionare Jet buying Pastors and tell them to use that money to open Christain No Interest Banks and see if CBN will not register it. my people really perish for lack of knowledge[/size]

Read this from somewhere and i 100% support every word here.

Most Christians in Nigeria are ignorant and double mouthed and it's getting very sickening.


I don't know where this thread fits, so MOD abeg move am to where you see it fit.

A christian bank won't be a bad idea. Gods principle is against this present banking system. Pastor AIO is right here.

Joagbaje:

A christian bank won't be a bad idea. Gods principle is against this present banking system. Pastor AIO is right here.

I am happy we have Christians who are not tribal-sentimental-hate filled Christians.

Just imagine us having a Christ-oriented banking system where interest are not charged on loan?

A Christ oriented banking system where interest is not charged on loans ke? Where did you see that one?

If you like setup Shango banking system , whatever !!

As for Christians ( the true ones ) let us not get dragged into this unnecessary debate, there are more important things to be done for the kingdom of GOD.

Let the church goers and others bicker over this world and its financial systems.

"Every one who serves as a soldier ( In Christ ) keeps himself from becoming entangled in the world's business--so that he may satisfy the officer who enlisted him." - 2 Timothy 2:4

^^^^^^^

But virtually all Christians in Nigeria are entangled in the world's business, no?

They are all in the Redeemed, Christ embassy, Trem, Covenant fellowship center e,t,c

So how can you remove the world business from Nigerian Christians when the Christians are actually Christians because of the world's business?

^

Simple we use the world but do not abuse the system. WE ARE NOT ENTANGLED in it , OR sucked into it,

"Those who use the things of the world should not become attached to them. For this world as we know it will soon pass away." - 1 Cortinthians 7:31

But note the word used in the bible, ENTANGLED.

But the reverse is the case in Nigeria or can you explain why Nigeria is still the way it is if we are not truly entangled to the things of the world?

^^^

Obviously you are right, Nigerian church goers are entangled in the world system, which is why the church is in the state it is in TODAY.

Obviously let us not forget America where all this madness started from which is why CBN get involved in all sorts of financial activities that are not sanctioned by GOD.

Because the majority do it, does not make it right.

Those who follow truth are always in the minority.

The majority follow the broad way that leads to destruction.

Even the mighty savior Jesus knew what the state of the church will be , just before he comes the second time, he made this statement :

"I tell you, he will grant justice to them quickly! But when the Son of Man returns, how many will he find on the earth who have faith?"- Luke 18:8

I wonder why God according to the bible allowed the jews to charge non jews interest on loan taken, but, jews are forbidden from taking interest on loans taken by other jews. I believe God is just to all and we are all equal in His sight. I think the is something wrong somewhere.

Money and Banking.

we need to take a look at what banking actually is (and money too which is part of the problem). Many people are not aware of it. It is the single biggest con in the history of mankind. It is so blatant that when you explain it to people they still do not believe you, cos 'how can ojukoroju stealing be so blatant', yet it is.

Without a doubt human being need to trade and buy and sell from each other.

Imagine I am a carpenter and Honeric is a blacksmith that makes hammers. Honeric needs my chairs and tables, I need his hammers. We could easily trade by barter.
"Please Honeric supply me with 10 hammers and I will give you a table and 4 chairs at the end of the month. "
This is a fair deal, he does something for me, I do something for him.

But imagine that transactions in society had become so complex that we could not trade by barter any more. Instead we trade using money. So I go to buy 10 hammers from honeric for §100. Then at the end of the month Honeric comes and buys 1 table and 4 chairs from me for §100.
It is the same deal as before only that we have done it using money instead.

But is it the same deal. Imagine that there is a guy who actually supplies the money. Let's call him Frosbel. Frosbel says to me, 'I know that you need §100 to buy hammers from Honeric, I'll give you the money but I want it back by the end of the month with 10% interest. You see, just as I make tables and chairs and Honeric makes hammers, Frosbel makes money. I mean literally makes money, he has a fine printing press and he prints off as much money as he needs to lend out.

So I buy the hammers, at the end of the month I have to come up with §110 to pay Frosbel back. One of two things can happen. When Honeric comes to buy tables and chairs I'll sell the formerly §100 worth of tables and chairs to him for §110. This is what we call Inflation.
Or, I keep the price the same and I still owe Frosbel §10. Now I'm in debt. For the rest of my life I'll keep having to find the extra money to pay Frosbel . In other words I've been reduced to Slavery.
Please also remember that Honeric, in order to buy the table and chairs, also needs to get money which he probably takes out a loan for too, so in the end he took is reduced to perpetual slavery.

Whoever is controlling the Money supply of a monetary society is the Lord and master of the society and everybody else is their SLAVE.

When I say slave, that is what I mean. The Money supplier is not working. He doesn't need to move a muscle. He reaps from the labour of everybody else in the society. He is a form of parasite. That is the relationship of the Slave owner to the Slave. I toil to produce Tables and Chairs, Honeric toils to produce Hammers, and Frosbel chops inside simply because we are operating under a system that uses his money that he just conjures up out of the air.

Question: Who tells the President of the United States of America to 'speed it up'?

So how does this affect a society?  We have a situation where the population are all working under duress.  Meanwhile a class of citizen is formed which does no work (they produce nothing) and live parasitically over the rest of the society.

How does this affect the spiritual life of Christians?  When you entire life is directed under duress you cannot live to express yourself or to shine your light the way your spirit guides you too.  You live to serve the interest of the parasite. Not the interest of God.

It is impossible to separate the evil of Banking from Money itself. Money is a two edged sword. It has it's pros and cons.

There is no denying that money helps us to facilitate transactions. It smoothes trade. It does this because it is 1) a representation of value, and 2)a means to store Value.

However therein lies the dangers, because money is not value in itself, but merely a representation of Value. A big danger is that money might actually replace a valued thing in the mind of a person, rather than just be a temporary representation of value.

I might really value my jacket quite highly and someone could come and offer me 500pounds for it, but I reject that. If they offer 800 pounds, I might still reject that. But then if they offer 1000 pounds, I might accept. That 1000 pounds might represent the value of my jacket to me, but it cannot do what my jacket can do. In the winter months that 1000 pounds will not keep me warm, unless I convert it back into another jacket, by spending it.

As Christians we believe that we have the most valuable thing in the world called the Kingdom of God. This is like a pearl or precious jewel that is worth selling everything that you have in order to acquire.

What monetary value can we put on the Kingdom?

This thread is highly enlightening, the kinds of threads I like to read. Please go right ahead! 

Please there is this nice video on youtube that explains how banking works very simply.  I like the part called the allegory of The Goldsmith's Tale. 

What is obvious that society needs is a medium that everybody trusts and can be used to trade Goods and Services. 

What is not obvious is that banks, knowing that we have come to trust the paper that the print, use this trust to create money out of nothing and thereby when they charge us interest on this 'money' they are basically making us work for them for nothing. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0IJCGuNtqk&feature=related

This is just the basics.  It is what emerges out of this later that really smacks of diabolism.  Please also notice the quotes at the beginning of the video.  They are very important to understand the war that has been going on for centuries against these bankers. 

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something.  They know that there is a power somewhere so organised, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." - President Woodrow Wilson.

(Woodrow Wilson was the president who finally lost the battle to protect the US against the European Capitalist banking system.) 

"The Process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled" J K Galbraith

(J K Galbraith was one of the most respected economists of his time if not the most respected.  His most famous book was The Affluent Society)

And the following is what they want you to think is going on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-HOz8T6tAo

It is just not true. No bank operates like that. They all create credit using fractional reserve ratio, and in sometimes there isn't even any fractional reserve ratio.

Pastor AIO:

It is my opinion that Capitalism is 99.99999999% evil. The bible ban usury, christianity forbade usury, muslims forbade it too. So tell me, how come it is the cornerstone of the world economic order today? Why was it so frowned upon by God in the bible? What does it do to societies that made it so detestible to God in the bible?

WORD!!!!

abeg, if anybody is interested in this thread make una dey give me feedback. Please I don't want to be talking to myself. If a craze, I never craze reach that.

^^^
Continue jare, very inspiring posts you got here. Topics on banking and monetary matters always get my attention.

Pastor AIO:

abeg, if anybody is interested in this thread make una dey give me feedback. Please I don't want to be talking to myself. If a craze, I never craze reach that.

Bros abeg continue, some people actually called this thread useless just because it's against the normal hypocritical threads they are used to.

Some of them thought i was a moslem, were about attacking the religion and my person. most Nigerian Christians, very religious but never spiritual.

Okay, cool.  Let us look at the second part of that interesting video. 

The long and short of it is that all one needs to do to set up a bank is put some small money in the Central Bank.  This deposit is called the banks reserve.  If the Fractional Reserve Ratio is 10:1 and I put One dollar in the Central Bank that means that I can lend out 10 dollars by law. 

So all I need is 1 dollar to have the right to lend out 10 dollars.  If a borrower comes to my bank to borrow 10 dollars I simply type a credit of 10 dollars into his account.  He now spends it on a pair of shoes.  But the Shoe seller has his bank account with me.  All that I do is transfer the sum of 10 dollars from the lenders account to the shoe sellers account. 

But remember the lender still owes me 10 dollars and now has to go out and work and find that 10 dollars to pay me back.  Otherwise I seize his house, or his car or something. 

Meanwhile because the shoe seller has 'deposited'  10 dollars in my bank, that gives me the right to lend another 9 dollars.  Yep!

And when another lender comes to borrow that 9 dollars the same process happens again.  and the next round I can loan out 8.1 dollars etc etc  etc.  Until I end up with a situation where borrowers owe me about 100 dollars (more or less), and all this because I deposited 1 dollars (which is the only real money that I have) in the Central Bank. 

Now because the whole town is a town of mugus, all those borrowers are running around looking for my 100 dollars to pay me back.  Since in Muguland Credit is equal to real money, I have actually multiplied the money I have 100fold.  From one dollar to 100 dollars in the wink of an eye. 
You see that thing in our pockets is not really money, but it is just a 'promise to pay', it is a credit, a debt.  So in this system if Lagbaja promises to give me 100 dollars, or owes me 100 dollars,  that is the same as saying that I have 100 dollars. 

The worst thing that can happen to this system is if the muguns should wake up and say, 'you know what? I'm declaring myself bankrupt, I can't be running to look for money to pay you back simply because you did a magic trick on me.  I say I no get, wetin?'

If enough people did that the whole system would come crumbling down.  It depends on people agreeing to pay back the loans.  At the end of the day it is just a subtle form of indentured servitude. 

This is done in cahoots with the government.  The government decrees that the magic money that the bank creates can be converted into the national legal tender.  Also if people do not pay their debts the government comes to kick their asss, take them to court and seize their property.  So you see, the government is actually just a tool of the banks used to control people.  This true of most governments in the world.  Don't believe the hype. 

Check out the quotes:

"Everyone sub-consciously knows that banks do not lend money.  When you draw on your savings account the bank doesn't tell you you can't do this because it has lent the money to somebody else.
Mark Mansfield

I'm afraid that the oridinary citizen will not like to be told that banks can and do create money . . . . And they who control the credit of the nation[i] direct the policy of the government[/i] and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people.
-Reginald McKenna


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRCzt0VH18w&feature=related

Pastor AIO:

Oh yes it does and what a fantastic thread it is too!!  I believe it touches on aspects of christianity that are very relevant to the world we live in today and to the economic order.  Ie. Capitalism. 

It is my opinion that Capitalism is 99.99999999% evil.  The bible ban usury, christianity forbade usury, muslims forbade it too.  So tell me, how come it is the cornerstone of the world economic order today?  Why was it so frowned upon by God in the bible?  What does it do to societies that made it so detestible to God in the bible?

Now the meaning of Usury has been twisted to mean charging excessive interest on a loan, but in actual fact the meaning is the charging of interest, any interest, on a loan.

To me it shows one of the darker side of Judaism, as a religion.  The reason that Jews are the financiers of the world today, in fact they are probably the ones that really developed banking in Europe, is because though God forbid them to practice usury amongst themselves he said it is okay for them to practice usury on non-Jews. 

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon interest to thy brother: interest of money, interest of victuals, interest of any thing that is lent upon interest.

Deuteronomy 23:20 Unto a foreigner thou mayest lend upon interest; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon interest; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou puttest thy hand unto, in the land whither thou goest in to possess it.

Knowing how harmful it is to a social order why permit it to be done to anyone at all.  It is like saying, don't murder your neighbour but you can murder a foreigner. What kind of wickedness is that?!!

Since Jews could not practice usury on themselves but could practice usury on others, and Christians themselves were not permitted to practice usury to anybody (in fact usurers were amongst the most detested people in christian societies who were not even allowed to partake of the sacraments), then it followed that Jews became the source of capital in europe.  This is what created the European image of Jews as a money grubbing people.  Remember Shylock the Jew from Merchant of Venice (Shakespeare). 

    [Exodus 22:25] If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.

    [Leviticus 25:36] Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.

    [Leviticus 25:37] Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

    [Deuteronomy 23:19] Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

    [Deuteronomy 23:20] Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

Since it was once thought in Europe that Usurer were most definitely the highest candidates for Hell, (in fact Dante in his Inferno the 7th Circle of Hell is reserved for them amongst murderers and homosexuals), so the question is how did it rise to become the corner stone of European economy in the modern age? 
This is a long history that will take us back to Italy in the medieval ages and plenty of time to unravel, so I'll leave that for another day, and another post.

Your summary of the genesis of modern banking is largely correct. But going through your posts, I can see you are mixing up a number of things, like commercial banking and investment banking or primitive economies and modern economy. Moreover, christianity is not against lending and interest. Jesus, in the parable of the talents, which was about the Kingdom He came to establish, clearly endorsed receiving interest from money left in a bank. Where would the interest paid to the depositor come from, if the banker does not charge interest to those he lent the money to?

Matt. 25: 26-27: “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest."

Pastor AIO, continue abeg. I dey your back gidigba

Pastor AIO:

Money and Banking.

we need to take a look at what banking actually is (and money too which is part of the problem). Many people are not aware of it. It is the single biggest con in the history of mankind. It is so blatant that when you explain it to people they still do not believe you, cos 'how can ojukoroju stealing be so blatant', yet it is.

Without a doubt human being need to trade and buy and sell from each other.

Imagine I am a carpenter and Honeric is a blacksmith that makes hammers. Honeric needs my chairs and tables, I need his hammers. We could easily trade by barter.
"Please Honeric supply me with 10 hammers and I will give you a table and 4 chairs at the end of the month. "
This is a fair deal, he does something for me, I do something for him.

But imagine that transactions in society had become so complex that we could not trade by barter any more. Instead we trade using money. So I go to buy 10 hammers from honeric for §100. Then at the end of the month Honeric comes and buys 1 table and 4 chairs from me for §100.
It is the same deal as before only that we have done it using money instead.

But is it the same deal. Imagine that there is a guy who actually supplies the money. Let's call him Frosbel. Frosbel says to me, 'I know that you need §100 to buy hammers from Honeric, I'll give you the money but I want it back by the end of the month with 10% interest. You see, just as I make tables and chairs and Honeric makes hammers, Frosbel makes money. I mean literally makes money, he has a fine printing press and he prints off as much money as he needs to lend out.

So I buy the hammers, at the end of the month I have to come up with §110 to pay Frosbel back. One of two things can happen. When Honeric comes to buy tables and chairs I'll sell the formerly §100 worth of tables and chairs to him for §110. This is what we call Inflation.
Or, I keep the price the same and I still owe Frosbel §10. Now I'm in debt. For the rest of my life I'll keep having to find the extra money to pay Frosbel . In other words I've been reduced to Slavery.
Please also remember that Honeric, in order to buy the table and chairs, also needs to get money which he probably takes out a loan for too, so in the end he took is reduced to perpetual slavery.

Whoever is controlling the Money supply of a monetary society is the Lord and master of the society and everybody else is their SLAVE.

When I say slave, that is what I mean. The Money supplier is not working. He doesn't need to move a muscle. He reaps from the labour of everybody else in the society. He is a form of parasite. That is the relationship of the Slave owner to the Slave. I toil to produce Tables and Chairs, Honeric toils to produce Hammers, and Frosbel chops inside simply because we are operating under a system that uses his money that he just conjures up out of the air.

Question: Who tells the President of the United States of America to 'speed it up'?

A thing should be separated from its abuse. Mixing them up does nobody any good. Your backsmith-carpenter example is good. But runs into a number of problems. The carpenter may be able to barter with the blacksmith, but he needs a whole lot of other materials to build the table. He may also decide to barter with the suppliers of those materials. E, g., fetch water for the timber owner in exchange for wood. Cut grass for the nail owner in exchange for nails. After a while, he'll run out of strength and time to engage in these exchanges. Besides, if he were to monetize his time, it would be obvious the worth is far more than the $10 he's paying in interest. By the time, he's done building that table, he's not only so exhausted, but the product would be far more expensive or take much longer time to get to the buyer (end user). You cannot sustain a society for long that way.

Also, the modern approach (banking) is preferable and better suited for the complex economy, which you probably acknowledge. So, Mr X gets a job 50 miles away and needs a car to get there. He has no savings and nobody in his circle of friends or relatives has enough money to purchase the car outright. He approaches a bank for a 5-year loan. Every month, he pays a little with interest and in 5 years owns the car. He also gets to keep the job. I don't see how this is bad for the individual, society, christianity or God. Now, if the bank charged him too much interest (abuse), that's a different kettle of fish. He may never be able to get out of the transaction better off. But we shouldn't mix the two.

The idea that the suppliers of capital do virtually nothing while others work very hard is also largely incorrect. I don't know how much of a finance background you have. But the work is hard! (Even the Nigerian system of sending girls to prostitute or making friends with politicians so they can support their corruption through your bank is not easy - though that's not real banking).

Pastor AIO:

Please there is this nice video on youtube that explains how banking works very simply. I like the part called the allegory of The Goldsmith's Tale.

What is obvious that society needs is a medium that everybody trusts and can be used to trade Goods and Services.

What is not obvious is that banks, knowing that we have come to trust the paper that the print, use this trust to create money out of nothing and thereby when they charge us interest on this 'money' they are basically making us work for them for nothing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0IJCGuNtqk&feature=related

This is just the basics. It is what emerges out of this later that really smacks of diabolism. Please also notice the quotes at the beginning of the video. They are very important to understand the war that has been going on for centuries against these bankers.

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organised, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." - President Woodrow Wilson.

(Woodrow Wilson was the president who finally lost the battle to protect the US against the European Capitalist banking system.)

"The Process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled" J K Galbraith

(J K Galbraith was one of the most respected economists of his time if not the most respected. His most famous book was The Affluent Society)

That's the nature of life. The Good Book tells us: 'The Rich ruleth ver the poor and the borrower is servant to the lender.'

The first part has little to do with banking. In a society, those who have money control and the rest, including politicians, bow to them. It doesn't matter if the money came through manufacturing, construction or finance. Look at today's Nigeria as an example.

The second part relates to banking. What you forget is that the bankers do not force anybody to borrow. The politicians borrow to finance their projects and maintain power. Accordingly, they became slaves of the bankers. IMO, the major culprit here is the politician. Does that mean we should abolish politics as a profession because some people abuse it? Ditto banking.

Thank you NL Mediator, for your contributions. It gives me a sounding board to talk with so it doesn't feel like I'm talking into a bottomless pit.

nlMediator:

Your summary of the genesis of modern banking is largely correct. But going through your posts, I can see you are mixing up a number of things, like commercial banking and investment banking or primitive economies and modern economy. Moreover, christianity is not against lending and interest. Jesus, in the parable of the talents, which was about the Kingdom He came to establish, clearly endorsed receiving interest from money left in a bank. Where would the interest paid to the depositor come from, if the banker does not charge interest to those he lent the money to?

Matt. 25: 26-27: “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest."

I know what investment banking is, and in fact I am not against investment or shared concerns in an enterprise. What I'm against is the lending of money on usury. There is a difference. A Musician and a Cook can decide to go into business together and open a bar/restaurant. They both have skills they can bring to the project. The Cook will supply the meal while the musician entertains the client as they eat. If the business does well they share the profits, if it doesn't then they both sink.

A money man can invest into a business. He has a shared concern in the business. If the business prospers he will share in the profit, if the business fails he will share in the losses.
Usury is different. The money man says I'll lend you, (not invest in you), 1000 dollars, and I want 1200 dollars by the end of the year whether or not your business concern prospers or fails.
There is a big difference between Bonds and Shares.

Thank you for the example of Jesus' statement. I wanted to bring it up earlier but I thought it might distract from the main thrust of my point.
I share the opinion that it is an insertion into the gospels. Remember Jesus was a Jew and his audience were largely Jewish. And Judaism ban usury. How would Jesus say a thing like that to a Jewish audience, being Jewish himself. 'But ahhh . . .', you may argue, ' . . .maybe he meant that the money could have been used to lend to non-Jews upon usury'. However that flies in the face of everything else that Jesus taught. He didn't make a distinction between Jew and gentile, but gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan to show us who our neighbour was. If Jesus said that then he would be recommending that the money was lent upon usury to gentiles, and I do not see Jesus saying something like that.