@ those in page #1 talking about archaeolohy and what the Quran mentions specifically about Abraham and the Ka'bah in particular,let me first bring to your notice that in your very own bible Hagar,the mother of Ishamel,who we believe along with his father Abraham rebuilt the ka'ba and placed the black stone is mentioned to have being in arabia.

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
(note that the above verse cannot be taken figuratively as the christian would speculate because Hagar is not from arabia but from egypt).so if really Hagar (as) was in arabia,why do you find it hard to believe Abraham stepped foot in Makkah?

here is even more explicit verse regarding the "wilderness of Paran" which is Arabia:

Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV) “And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

and you can read here for archaelogical finding that mount sinai is actually in saudi arabia (note that the israelites according to the bible are said to have roamed the desert for years.that could only be in arabia):

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm
http://antipas.net/15faq.htm


read about Paran (Faran in arabic):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_of_Paran

Numbers 10:12
Then the Israelites set out from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran.




In Surah 3:96, Makkah (refered to as Mecca) is given the name Bakkah:
Verily, the first House (of worship) appointed for mankind was that at Bakkah (Makkah), full of blessing, and a guidance for Al-`Alamin (the mankind and jinns).

The Bible, in Psalm 84:5,6, mentions the valley of Baca:
Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs: the autumn rains also cover it with pools. (NIV)

furthermore we read about Paran (arabia) in the bible:

Numbers 10:12 (KJV) “And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness of Sinai; and the cloud rested in the wilderness of Paran.”

Numbers 13:1-3 (KJV)
“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them. And Moses by the commandment of the LORD sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel.”


Habakkuk 3:3
God came from Teman, the Holy One from [b]Mount Paran. Selah His glory covered the heavens and his praise filled the earth.[/b]
(we know that the first revelation that descended upon Muhammad (sa) was in a cave called hira in a mountain known as Jabal an-Nur in Makkah).

Pilgrimage of Prophet Ezekiel (mentioned in the bible) to Makkah:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ezekiel_pilgrimage.htm

LagosShia:

@ those in page #1 talking about archaeolohy and what the Quran mentions specifically about Abraham and the Ka'bah in particular,let me first bring to your notice that in your very own bible Hagar,the mother of Ishamel,who we believe along with his father Abraham rebuilt the ka'ba and placed the black stone is mentioned to have being in arabia.

this makes no sense. the questions on page 1 related to what exactly validity of the quran based on archeology . . . and you proceed to prove Hagar was in arabia USING THE BIBLE? Does that not validate the bible and bring the quran to disrepute since muslims obviously cant trust it to be archeologically accurate?

LagosShia:

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
(note that the above verse cannot be taken figuratively as the christian would speculate because Hagar is not from arabia but from egypt).so if really Hagar (as) was in arabia,why do you find it hard to believe Abraham stepped foot in Makkah?

Mount sinai is in the sinai peninsula in egypt. Note you also shoot yourself in the foot by indicating that Hagar is from Egypt so it isnt far-fetched to believe Hagar probably went back to her country with Ishmael.

LagosShia:

here is even more explicit verse regarding the "wilderness of Paran" which is Arabia:

Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV) “And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

1. We know mount sinai is in Egypt not saudi arabia.

2. Gen 21 which you quoted makes nonsense of your claims. How is it possible that Ishmael grew up in the wilderness of paran (archeologists say this from wikipedia - This name is used by Eastern geographers to refer to three different locales: the wilderness and mountains where Mecca is situated, mountains and a village in Eastern Egypt, and a province in Samarkand)

How could this man have grown up in the wilderness of "mecca" as you claim but his mother then traveled 6350 miles to find a wife out of egypt for him??

LagosShia:

Numbers 10:12
Then the Israelites set out from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran.

huh? How could the jews have left Egypt then went straight to Mecca 6350 miles away ON FOOT?

davidylan:

this makes no sense. the questions on page 1 related to what exactly validity of the quran based on archeology . . . and you proceed to prove Hagar was in arabia USING THE BIBLE? Does that not validate the bible and bring the quran to disrepute since muslims obviously cant trust it to be archeologically accurate?

are you not christian?

if you ask for archaelogical evidence from the muslim because Abraham or his son Ishmael or wife,Hagar were in arabia because the Quran mentions their presence there,dont you think the burden of proof also lies on you because your very own bible also mentions their presence in arabia?

so why is it wonderful when the Quran mentions Abraham's or Ishamael's presence in arabia,but it is all honey-honey when the bible likewise mentions that?

this does not bring the Quran into disrepute because obviously you are trying to score with cheap shots.it is absolutely ridiculous when a christian like yourself questions the Quran on a subject the bible itself conforms with.it is like asking for archaelogical evidence to support the Quran that Mary is the mother of Jesus.it would be absolutely du.mb for a christian to demand such nonsense from a muslim.

but definitely,i beat my chest you would still be blind to reason out.

davidylan:

Mount sinai is in the sinai peninsula in egypt. Note you also shoot yourself in the foot by indicating that Hagar is from Egypt so it isnt far-fetched to believe Hagar probably went back to her country with Ishmael.

its a pity you have not read your bible yet you're so stubborn in defending it and calling yourself christian.

the bible mentions Hagar in the "wilderness of Paran" which in arabia.
Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV)
“And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

1. We know mount sinai is in Egypt not saudi arabia.

you say Mount Sinai is in egypt simply because there is somewhere in egypt bearing the name "sinai".biblical and archaelogical evidence you asked for suggest mount sinai to be in saudi arabia.

http://antipas.net/15faq.htm
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/mt__sinai_found.htm

2. Gen 21 which you quoted makes nonsense of your claims. How is it possible that Ishmael grew up in the wilderness of paran (archeologists say this from wikipedia - This name is used by Eastern geographers to refer to three different locales: the wilderness and mountains where Mecca is situated, mountains and a village in Eastern Egypt, and a province in Samarkand)

How could this man have grown up in the wilderness of "mecca" as you claim but his mother then traveled 6350 miles to find a wife out of egypt for him??

Dear sir,where did you read that the “wilderness of Paran” has to be Makkah?
Also as you evidently can see,archaeologists themselves are confused.so on what basis would you use archaeology to judge our holy book,the Quran,when archaeologists themselves give different answers?

At least with the evidence that have come out from science and archaeology itself,and the confirmed findings which are not based any longer on speculation does give sufficient credit to the holy Quran.one such archaeological evidence I want to blast your face with is in regards to the lost city of Iram which is mentioned in the holy Quran.many thought Muhammad (sa) was hallucinating about such city.yet this lost city was found not very long ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iram_of_the_Pillars#Evidence_for_Iram

huh? How could the jews have left Egypt then went straight to Mecca 6350 miles away ON FOOT?

You are again concluding on your own that “wilderness of paran” or “mount Sinai” has to be Makkah or in makkah.if you check the map in one of the two websites I presented on mount Sinai,you’d definitely see that mount Sinai identified in Saudi Arabia as jabal el lawz is not in makkah.these are all scarce details and evidence which put Arabia (wilderness of paran) into the frame of prophecies and divine activities which many do not recognize with Arabia even when your very own bible identifies that.these citations aim to serve as reply to your doubts in questioning the feasibility that Abraham could have built the ka’bah in makkah as the Quran cites.

You should further check the “pilgrimage of Ezekiel to makkah” that I earlier presented.

LagosShia:

its a pity you have not read your bible yet you're so stubborn in defending it and calling yourself christian.

the bible mentions Hagar in the "wilderness of Paran" which in arabia.
Genesis 21:20-21 (KJV)
“And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.”

where in this bible verse are you told that paran in is arabia? Or are you just making things up as you go? Infact the only clue of where Paran might be located is the very next phrase ". . . out of the land of Egypt". Does it make sense to you that Hagar left Arabia for Egypt (over 6000 miles/the entire radius of the earth on a camel) to look for a wife for her son?

Seriously is the islamic mind so prone to being unable to think?

In biblical times, the Sinai peninsula where Mt Sinai is presently located was not a part of the country of Egypt (pls see Ex 13:18-20). But it was so close to Egypt as to be entirely plausible that Hagar would want to live in an area closer to her country of origin than travel the radius of the earth to live!

LagosShia:

you say Mount Sinai is in egypt simply because there is somewhere in egypt bearing the name "sinai".biblical and archaelogical evidence you asked for suggest mount sinai to be in saudi arabia.

Actually THERE IS a mount Sinai in the Sinai peninsula of Egypt. No such mt Sinai exists in Arabia. One of the websites you give as "archaeological proof" (what a joke) is owned by Ron Wyatt, a nurse anesthetist! There are actually 14 disputed locations for the biblical mt Sinai according to archaeologists and treasure seekers . . . its funny muslims have latched on the one in arabia to push the islamic myth.

davidylan:

where in this bible verse are you told that paran in is arabia? Or are you just making things up as you go? Infact the only clue of where Paran might be located is the very next phrase ". . . out of the land of Egypt". Does it make sense to you that Hagar left Arabia for Egypt (over 6000 miles/the entire radius of the earth on a camel) to look for a wife for her son?

Seriously is the islamic mind so prone to being unable to think?

In biblical times, the Sinai peninsula where Mt Sinai is presently located was not a part of the country of Egypt (pls see Ex 13:18-20). But it was so close to Egypt as to be entirely plausible that Hagar would want to live in an area closer to her country of origin than travel the radius of the earth to live!

i would leave it to sane minds to find out where the "wilderness of Paran" is located presently.
the phrase "out of Egypt" comes after "and his mother took him a wife ".so the phrase doesn't at all describe where the wilderness is.

you asked me "where in this bible verse  are you told that paran is in arabia".can you also show me where it is stated that paran or to be precise the "wilderness of paran" is found in egypt?please no speculation is acceptable.

Actually THERE IS a mount Sinai in the Sinai peninsula of Egypt. No such mt Sinai exists in Arabia. One of the websites you give as "archaeological proof" (what a joke) is owned by Ron Wyatt, a nurse anesthetist! There are actually 14 disputed locations for the biblical mt Sinai according to archaeologists and treasure seekers . . . its funny muslims have latched on the one in arabia to push the islamic myth.

the point is the location is disputed.that is enough for my case.asking to bring archaelogical evidence amounts to no truth when there is no certainty that the finding is confirmed to be actualiso for those talking about archaelogical evidence to prove that Abraham built the ka'bah is insignifiant so far as archaelogical findings have not yet being made.you should then exercise more patience .when it comes to archaelogical evidence the credibility of the holy Quran rests on  confirmed findings like the lost city of iram which i talked about in my previous post.

Yes exactly being a xtain is a mistake gbam

Gbam gbam gbamu