Paul says:
1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.


Jesus says:
Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'


Salvation
According to Jesus:  The rich young ruler asked Jesus how he could find salvation. Jesus answered, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments ,  If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." (Matt 19:16-21, Mark 10:17-21, Luke 18:18-22, KJV) In other words, obey Torah, and follow Jesus' examples.
According to Paul:  “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” (Rom 10:9-10, NAS)
Which is it?  Obeying the commandments of G-d and following Jesus, or merely believing in Jesus’ resurrection and confessing him as Lord?


Eating meat sacrificed to idols
It’s okay to do so according to Paul (1 Corinthians 8 ).  But Jesus condemns the act, as well as those who teach folk to do so (Revelation 2:14, 20).
I've heard some try to resolve this by saying Jesus taught old covenant law because he lived under the law, but after his death and resurrection we are now under the new covenant.  If that's true, and he knew it would be true (and he should have known if he is G-d, right?) then why did he never mention this?  Why didn't he say to the young man, "For now, obey the commandments, but after I'm raised from the dead, keep your fortune and don't worry about the commandments, because you won't be required to keep them."?  He never said this to anyone, nor anything like this, not once in the three and one-half years he spent preaching, by both sermon and example, to live the Law given through Moses.


On the time of the coming of the Lord:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.
Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' [/b]Do not go after them.


[b]On the God of the dead:
Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;


On the sum of the commandments:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, [/b]are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus says:
Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these[b] two commandments [/b]depend all the law and the prophets.


[b]On forgiveness of trespasses:
Paul says:
Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
Rom.4
[25] who was[b] put to death [/b]for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Jesus says:
Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


On being justified:
Paul says:
Rom.3
[24] they are[b] justified by his grace [/b]as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
[28] For we hold that a man is justified by faith [/b]apart from works of law.
Rom.5
[9] Since, therefore, we are now[b] justified by his blood, [/b]much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.

Jesus says:
Matt.12
[37] for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.



[b]On the basis of judgment:
Paul says:
Rom.2
[12] All who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Jesus says:
John.12
[48] He who rejects me and does not receive my sayings has a judge; the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.


On the commandments and eternal life:                    
Paul says:
Rom.7
[9] I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died;
[10] the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me.

Jesus says:
Matt.19
[17] And he said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.


On the destiny of the Law and the Prophets:
Paul says:
Rom.10
[4] For Christ is the end of the law, that every one who has faith may be justified.

Jesus says:
Matt.5
[17] Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

Do We Follow or Not Follow The Laws?

Jesus Says:
Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works".


Paul Says:

Romans 7:9-10
"I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died; the very commandment which promised life proved to be death to me".

1 Corinthians 15:14
"If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain."

Colossians 2:14
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross";

There are. I contradictions , the scriptures harmonised themselves. The only problem is that you can't understand spiritual things without he help of the holy spirit .

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Joagbaje:

There are. I contradictions , the scriptures harmonised themselves. The only problem is that you can't understand spiritual things without he help of the holy spirit .

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

you sound like a gentle man from my observation in the forum.so please for the sake of the Almighty God,try not to be like the others who give such excuses.

what harmony can we have when what you are reading is contradicting the other? holy spirit? that is a very easy way to run from defending your religion and facing the reality.whenever faced with hard issues the christian gives the holy spirit excuse.

this is the same holy spirit that all christian denominations from the latter day saints to the jehovah's witnesses to catholics to pentecostals to anglicans all claim.and you could find members in each denomination telling you only them have the gift of the holy spirit and the others are not "christian enough" or even christian at alll!in islam we have sunni-shia division,but we dont give the excuse of holy spirit to defend our beliefs.we use the revelation (Quranic knowledge) and the God-given gift of the intellect to understand things.

also,this same holy spirit is the same one present when those fathers abuse little boys.and is the same one when pastors abuse women:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820187.0.html#msg9717540

so either accept the truth or maintain your silence.otherwise wait till all of us reachthe hereafter for us to know the truth.christians should therefore stop preaching and teaching to spread their religion.they should let alone the holy spirit do the magic.and if not,disbelievers in christianity can simply tell God that the holy spirit did not come their way.this holy spirit excuse is pitiful.we dont know who is lying about it.but if you ask me,all of you are lying!

LagosShia, you will continue to find fault in the gospels and glorify your Koran, I have seen many discussions with you and you just post threads links for people to read if you have no valid response for a rebuttal. Nobody is interested in your collection of URLs. What I am interested is in you giving me a burden of proof that Islam is the truth. You or your fellow scholars have not been able to do that. Deut 18 falls flat on its face because of Acts 3:22-24, John 14-16 falls flat, John 1 also does the same. You guys have also gone as far as looking to Dan 8.

After listening to more and more circular arguments from you and even sweetnecta, you bring nothing new to the board that Shabir Alli, Prof Jamal Badawi, Zakir Naik and Ahmed Deedat have brought to the arguments. And if these are your present day authority/great scholars and their debates have holes in them, I'm sorry my friend you are backing the wrong horse. It's time to change sides and come to the winning team. Your zeal is great for the things of god but you need to channel that zeal for the things of the Almighty God, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mohammed asked his followers who were not ready to accept him to ask those of the book (Surah 10:94) and you claim the books are corrupt, is this before or after the revelation? The books couldn't have been corrupt before the revelation because he asked people to check with those who believe in the book but it couldn't have been corrupted afterwards as well because the books were in circulation in different parts, there couldn't have been a collective effort to corrupt it.

My appeal is that, if you read your quran in context which I'm sure you do, I appeal to you to also read the bible in context. Some things in the bible are very logical that you do not need to be a rocket scientist to figure out the meaning. Ultimately when the spirit opens your eyes

LagosShia:

you sound like a gentle man from my observation in the forum.so please for the sake of the Almighty God,try not to be like the others who give such excuses.]
what harmony can we have when what you are reading is contradicting the other? holy spirit? that is a very easy way to run from defending your religion and facing the reality.whenever faced with hard issues the christian gives the holy spirit excuse.

this is the same holy spirit that all christian denominations from the latter day saints to the jehovah's witnesses to catholics to

pentecostals to anglicans all claim.and you could find members in each denomination telling you only them have the gift of the holy spirit and the others are not "christian enough" or even christian at alll!in islam we have sunni-shia division,but we dont give the excuse of holy spirit to defend our beliefs.we use the revelation (Quranic knowledge) and the God-given gift of the intellect to understand things.

also,this same holy spirit is the same one present when those fathers abuse little boys.and is the same one when pastors abuse women:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820187.0.html#msg9717540

so either accept the truth or maintain your silence.otherwise wait till
all of us reachthe hereafter for us to know the truth.christians should


therefore stop preaching and teaching to spread their religion.they should let alone the holy spirit do the magic.and if not,disbelievers in christianity can simply tell God that the holy spirit did not come their way.this holy spirit excuse is pitiful.we dont know who is lying about it.but if you ask me,all of you are lying!

Panper him to surport ur falsehood doctrine, he has just showed what the scripture says. stop using ur brainwash phrase, u re very insultive but at same time can observe soneone who is matured! Wise of u no? No Jesus no life, turn to him, we care about the truth not LagosShia presure!

@blabbingvile

stop following falsehood by abusing Jesus.you christians symbolise everything Christ was not! Infact he said he was only sent to jews and described gentiles as 'dogs' undeserving of the 'food' meant for the jews.

When you are tackled with what you cannot answer you guys keep pulling redherrings,changing the topic and drifting away from the subject.check my threads close to 25 of them in the religion section and that is the sad undeniable case.you cannot tackle or stick to the topic.you keep whinning pages and pages on to create the false impression that you can defend your christianity.

funniest of all is when you try to make nonsense a mystery and bring in your holy rather evil spirit to rescue your foolishness.there is no shame,sincerity or sign of the fear of God.you just keep marching on in stubborn darkness and trying to pull others to join you people using tricks,lies and deceit.

My advice to you is to fear God.you can still love Jesus by following the truth in Islam.fanaticism is bad for the health of christians.i really care thats why i am advicing you.'the truth shall set you free'.dont follow false and pagan doctrines in the name of Jesus.know the truth and you will know those who abide in it.dont let the word 'christian' fool you.Jesus never named his followers 'christians'.amazing how you named yourselves 'christians' and claim to be followers of Christ with false doctrines Jesus never taught but the church fathers invented.you even have a cherry-picked 'holy book' compiled and tailored by the early roman catholic church to suit their beliefs and hallucinations.the christians dont follow the bible but rather the bible must follow what christians believe.each denomination with its own version to support its distinct doctrines.no wonder no two versions are alike.

@LagosShia, yes the "truth has set me free". Thank God for Jesus. Do you know the feeling when you know that you know that you know?

proo212:

@LagosShia, yes the "truth has set me free". Thank God for Jesus. Do you know the feeling when you know that you know that you know?

you dont know anything.you can only talk of how you feel and not what you know.you are driven by instinct and not knowledge.that is why "Joagbaje" when he could not explain himself,he ran to the "holy spirit" to hide and take cover!

LagosShia:

Paul says:
1Cor.5
[7] For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.
Eph.5
[2] And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

First things first . . . 1 Cor 5:7 says Christ is our PASSOVER lamb NOT a "paschal" lamb.

Secondly . . . lagosshia exposes the deceitful nature of islamic apologetic . . . Note he quotes ONE verse out of almost 4 gospels as proof that Paul and Christ were not on sync on the purpose of Christ's death but quotes TWO for Paul. Well here is another quote from Christ Himself - Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, [size=14pt]and to give his life a ransom for many[/size].
Matthew 26:26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28For[size=14pt] this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins[/size].

Christ, IN HIS OWN WORDS at least TWICE in the gospels tells the disciples the purpose of His death and resurrection is to offer up Himself as a ransom/sacrifice and to shed His blood for the remission of sins. Is this any different from 1 Cor 5 and Eph 5?

Why are these people so full of dishonesty?

LagosShia:

Jesus says:
Matt.9
[13] Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.'

A careful reading of Matthew 9 in its entirety shows that christ was not talking about Himself here but responding to a question from the pharisees on why Christ was always fond of eating with "sinners". Christ's response is simple - 12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Quite clear that in the above Christ is talking about having mercy ON THE SINNERS and accepting them (even though the pharisees consider them unclean and unworthy) through Him. The sacrifice in this case is that which the sinner would have to pay as a price for his sin if Christ did not come to offer Himself in our stead.

Is the muslim either hard of learning of deliberately and demonically inspired to lie against the scriptures?

LagosShia:

Salvation
According to Jesus:  The rich young ruler asked Jesus how he could find salvation. Jesus answered, "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments ,  If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." (Matt 19:16-21, Mark 10:17-21, Luke 18:18-22, KJV) In other words, obey Torah, and follow Jesus' examples.
According to Paul:  “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.” (Rom 10:9-10, NAS)
Which is it?  Obeying the commandments of G-d and following Jesus, or merely believing in Jesus’ resurrection and confessing him as Lord?

John 3:14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18[b]He that believeth on him is not condemned[/b]: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How is this any different from Romans 10? Christ is saying EXACTLY what Paul said (note the reference to His death in Verse 14), that the path to salvation is true BELIEF in Christ's death and resurrection.

LagosShia:

Eating meat sacrificed to idols
It’s okay to do so according to Paul (1 Corinthians 8 ).  But Jesus condemns the act, as well as those who teach folk to do so (Revelation 2:14, 20).
I've heard some try to resolve this by saying Jesus taught old covenant law because he lived under the law, but after his death and resurrection we are now under the new covenant.  If that's true, and he knew it would be true (and he should have known if he is G-d, right?) then why did he never mention this?  Why didn't he say to the young man, "For now, obey the commandments, but after I'm raised from the dead, keep your fortune and don't worry about the commandments, because you won't be required to keep them."?  He never said this to anyone, nor anything like this, not once in the three and one-half years he spent preaching, by both sermon and example, to live the Law given through Moses.

Nowhere does Paul say it is ok for you to eat anything sacrificed to idols in 1 Cor 8. Actually he admonishes that you be careful that whatever you do by reason of your advanced knowledge and faith in Christ be not an offence for someone else who is still growing in the faith. Please read Acts 10 to get a full understanding on this issue.

LagosShia:

On the time of the coming of the Lord:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand.
Jesus says:
Luke.21
[8] Take heed that you are not led astray; for many will come in my name,
saying, . . . `The time is at hand!' [/b]Do not go after them.

This must be a joke. No point responding to this piece of pathetic desperation.

LagosShia:

[b]On the God of the dead:
Paul says:
Rom.14
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Jesus says:
Luke.20
[38] Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living;

Confusion here. Please read both verses carefully, the context is starkly different.

1. Romans 14:7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Quite clearly, Paul was speaking to the believers that our consecrated lives unto the Lord does not end at death. Once we die (as long as we are saved by His blood), we die and go to be with him for eternity. The christian race does not end at death.

2. Now look at Luke 20 - 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36[b]Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.[/b]
37Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.


Clearly here this is a completely different context to Romans 14. Here Christ is talking of the resurrection day. After we are raised into a glorified body (Paul also talks about this), we can NO LONGER DIE anymore because we have put on immortality and are now like the angels (1 Cor 15 discusses this in-depth). The "dead" AFTER the resurrection does NOT refer to physical death now as we see in Romans 14 but to those who are eternally separated from God even though they are quite clearly alive in hell.

LagosShia:

On the sum of the commandments:
Paul says:
Rom.13
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, [/b]are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus says:
Matt.22
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these[b] two commandments [/b]depend all the law and the prophets.

Actually this so-called "contradiction" is false. Please see the same Romans 13 acknowledging the first and greatest commandment of Matt 22:37-38. Rom 13: 1[b]Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 14But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

How is Paul disagreeing with Matt 22? Because he did not put it in plain language?

LagosShia:

On forgiveness of trespasses:
Paul says:
Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace
Rom.4
[25] who was[b] put to death [/b]for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Jesus says:
Matt.6
[14] For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you;
[15] but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Note pls, Matt 6 is in reference to those who are already SAVED through redemption in the blood of Christ. The keyword from Matt 6:15 is the phrase "your FATHER". John chapter 3 is plain. If you are unsaved God is NOT your father and you are already condemned. It doesnt matter how many people you forgive.

To be continued.

davidylan:

First things first . . . 1 Cor 5:7 says Christ is our PASSOVER lamb NOT a "paschal" lamb.

Secondly . . . lagosshia exposes the deceitful nature of islamic apologetic . . . Note he quotes ONE verse out of almost 4 gospels as proof that Paul and Christ were not on sync on the purpose of Christ's death but quotes TWO for Paul. Well here is another quote from Christ Himself - Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, [size=14pt]and to give his life a ransom for many[/size].
Matthew 26:26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28For[size=14pt] this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins[/size].

Christ, IN HIS OWN WORDS at least TWICE in the gospels tells the disciples the purpose of His death and resurrection is to offer up Himself as a ransom/sacrifice and to shed His blood for the remission of sins. Is this any different from 1 Cor 5 and Eph 5?

Why are these people so full of dishonesty?

you have again exposed yourself that your brain is locked up and you really know nothing.

in the verses you presented as Jesus "supporting" his alleged death,not one of those verses can mean Jesus prophesying his alleged death if not interpreted as such.being a "ransom for the sins of people" or "giving his life as a ransom" does not necessarily mean the "ransom" must be death.defining "ransom" to mean "death" is your interpretation.prophets of God from Abraham to Moses to Muhammad (sa) have all sacrificed their lives to save people from sin and teach them divine knowledge.they do not necessarily have to die.

furthermore,did Jesus really tell people he was going to be killed or die for them?or is this based on the interpretation of the early church?

"Jesus Never Told Anyone He Will Die For Them"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-735489.0.html

"The Christian Resurrection Myth"!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739850.0.html

and one important point you are missing is this:you can bring evidence from the bible to interprete it as supporting the "death" interpretation.i can only bring verses and explicitly point out that it didn't take place! what you missed is the fact that whether or not Jesus died is another issue on its own.let us assume for argument's sake that Jesus died and what christians believe is true that he "died for their sins".then what? would you still follow the commandments and uphold the laws or would you abandon them? from the letters of Paul he never paid attention to upholding the laws and commandments Jesus stressed that people must follow to please God and gain salvation.that is where the conflict arises:to follow the commandments or not to follow them.this is even a christian conflict that you guys are lost on.you cherry-pick what to follow and what not to follow.the funnier part of it all is the practices Paul enforced in the new testament which christians by themselves no longer abide by.for instance Paul says a woman must have her head covered in church.how many christian women still do that?and what about those who do not? that is just one example and i dont want to bring more instances in order not to deviate from the conversation.

A careful reading of Matthew 9 in its entirety shows that christ was not talking about Himself here but responding to a question from the pharisees on why Christ was always fond of eating with "sinners". Christ's response is simple - 12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Quite clear that in the above Christ is talking about having mercy ON THE SINNERS and accepting them (even though the pharisees consider them unclean and unworthy) through Him. The sacrifice in this case is that which the sinner would have to pay as a price for his sin if Christ did not come to offer Himself in our stead.

Is the muslim either hard of learning of deliberately and demonically inspired to lie against the scriptures?

now let me apply your logic on you!

Christ is saying he does not desire sacrifice or the price sinners must pay before they are "forgiven".he simply wants them to repent and live godly ways for them to gain mercy.

now apply that on the christians who "live and justify" their existence and believe in "salvation" through the alleged blood of Jesus "dying for their sins".

you guys are doing what you accuse the pharisee.how? you have forgotten the instances Jesus kept stressing that you must and should follow the commandments to gain salvation and please God.with the excuse of "new covenant" you abandon practicing the religion of God and claim freedom from being under the "law".that is based on the teaching of Paul as the numerous verses i quoted Paul contradicting Jesus showed.Jesus would emphasize on obeying and pleasing God while Paul would tell you all is well and okay and feel free not to live under the law for so long as you believe Jesus "died" for you you are "saved".

davidylan:

John 3:14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18[b]He that believeth on him is not condemned[/b]: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

How is this any different from Romans 10? Christ is saying EXACTLY what Paul said (note the reference to His death in Verse 14), that the path to salvation is true BELIEF in Christ's death and resurrection.

for someone who has gone through the bible it is very easy to see your confusion.

Christians believe Jesus was risen from the dead.they also believe he was taken up after death.

now from the above verses,is Jesus talking about being taken up to heaven which Muslims also believed he was without believing that he "died".or was he refering to rising from his alleged death christians believe in?

as far as the verses above are concerned,i see no where where it says it is about "rising from the dead" or that Jesus will die.

to make things easier,can you bring me one verse from the bible that contains the word "resurrect"?you will not find! all the verses speak of "he is alive".we know that the word to be "alive" and to "resurrect" are not the same thing.his disciples not once recorded in the bible said Jesus was "resurrected".they kept saying "he is alive" which means he did not die!

Luke 24:23
but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.



you can read more here:

The Christian Resurrection Myth!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739850.0.html

Nowhere does Paul say it is ok for you to eat anything sacrificed to idols in 1 Cor 8. Actually he admonishes that you be careful that whatever you do by reason of your advanced knowledge and faith in Christ be not an offence for someone else who is still growing in the faith. Please read Acts 10 to get a full understanding on this issue.

1 Corinthians 8:7-8:
But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. 8 But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

This must be a joke. No point responding to this piece of pathetic desperation.

a loser like yourself should check out and know that what you are refering to as "pathetic desperation" was only a tip of the iceberg:

"False Prophecies Of The New Testament (bible)"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-550247.0.html

Confusion here. Please read both verses carefully, the context is starkly different.

1. Romans 14:7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

Quite clearly, Paul was speaking to the believers that our consecrated lives unto the Lord does not end at death. Once we die (as long as we are saved by His blood), we die and go to be with him for eternity. The christian race does not end at death.

2. Now look at Luke 20 - 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36[b]Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.[/b]
37Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.


Clearly here this is a completely different context to Romans 14. Here Christ is talking of the resurrection day. After we are raised into a glorified body (Paul also talks about this), we can NO LONGER DIE anymore because we have put on immortality and are now like the angels (1 Cor 15 discusses this in-depth). The "dead" AFTER the resurrection does NOT refer to physical death now as we see in Romans 14 but to those who are eternally separated from God even though they are quite clearly alive in hell.

if you want to interpreted "dead" in one way,you must apply it to both verses.is God the God of both of the living and the dead?or just the living?

Actually this so-called "contradiction" is false. Please see the same Romans 13 acknowledging the first and greatest commandment of Matt 22:37-38. Rom 13: 1[b]Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God[/b]. 14But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

How is Paul disagreeing with Matt 22? Because he did not put it in plain language?

it simply shows that Paul was too full and was talking with his stomach full.for someone claiming to be "inspired" he should know the details of whether it is only one or two commandments that are the most important according to Jesus himself.for him to put it different,shows he really doesn't know his way out.

Note pls, Matt 6 is in reference to those who are already SAVED through redemption in the blood of Christ.  The keyword from Matt 6:15 is the phrase "your FATHER". John chapter 3 is plain. If you are unsaved God is NOT your father and you are already condemned. It doesnt matter how many people you forgive.

To be continued.

and what happens if you are "saved" and two people believe in the alleged "blood" yet one of them is dead wrong and abuses his fellow "blood" follower.where is judgement? Jesus is teaching basic concepts of doing good and observing the law and forgiveness and mercy.while Mr. Paul is selling "blood" for salvation no matter the sins you do.where do we draw the line on judgement based on Paul's words if two "blood" followers have gravely offended each other? or are you claiming "infallibility" for "blood" followers  ?

Guys stop arguing with this deluded character !!!!

Even his fellow Muslims have abandoned him.

frosbel:

Guys stop arguing with this deluded character !!!!

Even his fellow Muslims have abandoned him.

are you sure?

check these and see how humbled i feel from the love my muslim brothers and sisters have shown me on Nairaland:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-815469.32.html#msg9734278

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820160.32.html#msg9739700

^^^

Only 1 vote 

frosbel:

^^^

Only 1 vote 

even though you're lying,i should let you know that i am not after the votes.i'm not impressed by the votes but by the kind words and feelings of islamic brotherhood.i didn't come here with the expectation to be voted for.i came here to expose falsehood and reveal the truth called Islam.

@Davidlan)):Is the muslim either hard of learning of deliberately and demonically inspired to lie against the scriptures?

[size=18pt]YES[/size]

Posted on: Yesterday at 04:50:49 PM Posted by: LagosShia
Insert Quote
@blabbingvile

stop following falsehood by abusing Jesus.you christians symbolise everything Christ was not! Infact he said he was only sent to jews and described gentiles as 'dogs' undeserving of the 'food' meant for the jews.

When you are tackled with what you cannot answer you guys keep pulling redherrings,changing the topic and drifting away from the subject.check my threads close to 25 of them in the religion section and that is the sad undeniable case.you cannot tackle or stick to the topic.you keep whinning pages and pages on to create the false impression that you can defend your christianity.

funniest of all is when you try to make nonsense a mystery and bring in your holy rather evil spirit to rescue your foolishness.there is no shame,sincerity or sign of the fear of God.you just keep marching on in stubborn darkness and trying to pull others to join you people using tricks,lies and deceit.

My advice to you is to fear God.you can still love Jesus by following the truth in Islam.fanaticism is bad for the health of christians.i really care thats why i am advicing you.'the truth shall set you free'.dont follow false and pagan doctrines in the name of Jesus.know the truth and you will know those who abide in it.dont let the word 'christian' fool you.Jesus never named his followers 'christians'.amazing how you named yourselves 'christians' and claim to be followers of Christ with false doctrines Jesus never taught but the church fathers invented.you even have a cherry-picked 'holy book' compiled and tailored by the early roman catholic church to suit their beliefs and hallucinations.the christians dont follow the bible but rather the bible must follow what christians believe.each denomination with its own version to support its distinct doctrines.no wonder no two versions are alike.

u just find it normal to insult people, so u means with all the effort trying to make people trust ur false doctrine, u must insult them, i see how true ur Idolatery 3godesses Islam can to u to heaven. I ve told u befor, there no other way to access God if not through Jesus Christ. Muhammed will be regreting to ve led u people astrayed, but its just to late for him.

U must care about ur lost soul and leave those whose souls are in safty in the hands of Christ.
Muhammed has done more than u, he failled, u can imagin how strong he was, u are just a little brainwashed muslim converted with wht u read in the Idol book called kuran, u think u can do more than ur master hahahaha, sorry.

My broda @davidlan has been proving ur misinterpretation, yet u re pressing pressing in vail loooolssssd. (Bonne courage) according to French word.

LagosShia:

even though you're lying,i should let you know that i am not after the votes.i'm not impressed by the votes but by the kind words and feelings of islamic brotherhood.i didn't come here with the expectation to be voted for.i came here to expose falsehood and reveal the truth called Islam.

Does this so called brotherhood also include the massacre of Sunnis and Shias in Iraq, Afghanistan, Sryia, Lebanon, Pakistan, etc etc

@Lagosshia, what truth is in Islam?

All lies that are supposed truths have been EXPOSED! The funny thing is that, not one of your "scholars" have been able to refute the exposes. Your Zakir Naik said they wouldn't allow churches to be built in muslim countries Islam is already the "truth". If Islam is so sure it is the truth, why is it so unsure of allowing churches to be built in muslim countries.

Be careful of saying that Mohammed was prophesied in Deut 18 because that prophet has a lot to live up to. My question once again is did your prophet live up to the standard expected of that prophet?

CLEARLY NOT!

With no atheists around, the theists go at each other's throat

^^

The atheists have been given a run for their money and fled the scene ,

^^^

Or perhaps the theists are always on aggressive mode, always looking for someone to pick a fight with, even if it is one of their own.

There is a big difference between the words aggression and assertiveness.

I personally can attest to the FACT that 95% of Christians on Nairaland have been assertive in their emphasis on the truth, this should not be seen as aggression.

On the other hand, them them (  )  have always taken an aggressive stance , especially when trying to disprove mind  blowing issues  that bring their ideology into logical reasoning and rebuttal.

Permit me to say, though, that there were some atheists ( Martin , Mazaje etc ) that also gave me a run for my money, and at times were quite aggressive if not outright hostile. The so stressed me, that I stated to rethink my presence on Nairaland.

frosbel:

Guys stop arguing with this deluded character !!!!

Even his fellow Muslims have abandoned him.

the guy must be so desperate.

An interesting trend reveals itself in nairaland

The prosperity theology believers and the disbelievers in the prosperity theology have a go at each other (Joagbaje vs frosbel)

Then along comes a catholic and they join allegiance against the catholic

Then along comes a muslim (LagosShia), and they all at his throat (plus the catholic) like a pack of lions on a defenceless deer

Then an atheist comes along (mazaje), and all the theists are out in full force against him.


@frosbel

The other side can lay claim to assertiveness.

The ot

proo212:

@Lagosshia, what truth is in Islam?

All lies that are supposed truths have been EXPOSED! The funny thing is that, not one of your "scholars" have been able to refute the exposes. Your Zakir Naik said they wouldn't allow churches to be built in muslim countries Islam is already the "truth". If Islam is so sure it is the truth, why is it so unsure of allowing churches to be built in muslim countries.

Be careful of saying that Mohammed was prophesied in Deut 18 because that prophet has a lot to live up to. My question once again is did your prophet live up to the standard expected of that prophet?

CLEARLY NOT!

you people are all talk and no knowledge.you're in a mess!

"Islamic Practices In The Bible Unknown To Christians"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-817518.0.html

The Fifth Kingdom(of God) In The Bible Prophecy Of The Book "DANIEL 2" Is Islam!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-772940.0.html


"The New Islamic Nation In Undeniable Bible Prophecies"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-820160.0.html

frosbel:

There is a big difference between the words aggression and assertiveness.

I personally can attest to the FACT that 95% of Christians on Nairaland have been assertive in their emphasis on the truth, this should not be seen as aggression.

On the other hand, them them ( ) have always taken an aggressive stance , especially when trying to disprove mind blowing issues that bring their ideology into logical reasoning and rebuttal.

Permit me to say, though, that there were some atheists ( Martin , Mazaje etc ) that also gave me a run for my money, and at times were quite aggressive if not outright hostile. The so stressed me, that I stated to rethink my presence on Nairaland.

with all the threads you have started on nairaland to do nothing but to provoke and insult muslims outrightly with no intellectual basis,if that is not aggression then you must be crazy.

only if your keyboard can talk,it could have punched you for lying."aerrtive"?there isn't one thread i have started on nairaland on a christian subject that you guys have being able to decisively conclude and defend.all you have done is to go on for pages creating the false impression you are defending something but in essence spaming the topic and leaving it untouched!

you can check all my threads here:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-739943.0.html