₦airaland Forum

ChristoBam:
Man just compared Manchester Utd to Facebook.

That your first statement is why the Glaziers are bast*rds. I'm not even going to argue with you on that. It's the effect of years of Glaziers. It's now Business first and football after. For the profit of a family.

Lool, everything is business these days. It’s the oil that keeps the engine running. No one can deny the fact that football is now a very big business. Fans will only continue to be emotional, and football club owners will continue to cash out either through distributions or capital appreciation (except money launderers). It is what it is!

ChristoBam:
What's going on is clear and obvious. The debt they've plunged the club in is clear and obvious. People run businesses mostly for their personal gain. Manchester United is a football club held to heart by millions of fans all over the world.

We're supposed to watch on and shut up cuz we don't run million dollar empire but the ones that do are turning the club into a money making machine for themselves and running the football side into the ground?

You don't even know what you're saying. Without the Glaziers, only God knows what heights we'd have reached by now. If we were in debt, it'd be because we've invested crazy money into players and a stadium.

No one can tell. You don’t know if we would be battling relegation with other small clubs (post Fergie era).

ChristoBam:
What's going on is clear and obvious. The debt they've plunged the club in is clear and obvious. People run businesses mostly for their personal gain. Manchester United is a football club held to heart by millions of fans all over the world.

We're supposed to watch on and shut up cuz we don't run million dollar empire but the ones that do are turning the club into a money making machine for themselves and running the football side into the ground?

You don't even know what you're saying. Without the Glaziers, only God knows what heights we'd have reached by now. If we were in debt, it'd be because we've invested crazy money into players and a stadium.

Man Utd is a business first, football club second. It was the other way round before the 21st century.

Tell me why Facebook, instagram are businesses even though billions of people cherish and use both platforms?

ChristoBam:
You don't get the point! The Glaziers put us into this situation and that's what we've been saying from the beginning.

How can you say spending a lot more on transfers will make us go bankrupt when more than €1 Billion has gone into their debts and dividends? We were debt free before these fvckers took over. There's no escaping the fact we got into debt and a lot of our revenue go into debt repayment because of these guys.

These clubs use dirty money because they don't have the revenues we have and they're trying to compete financially with us.

The reason they're successful is they splash the money until they see the success.

United will back Ten Hag financially for max of two summers. And leave him to hang after. That's how they balance their finance. How do we get sucess with this?

Dividend is less than 150m, which means they have not taken out a lot as such.

Btw, go check what financial leverage means and what it does to a business/company.

Finally, if any fan is not happy with the owners, he/she should go support another club until the owners sell. Simple!

ChristoBam:
For ETH to become successful under the Glaziers, he'll need extreme good luck.

The kind of luck that presented Arnold to Klopp. Or allowed VVD to be available at the point they wanted a CB.

1) Luck
2) Financial backing
3) Great system.

That's what he'll need to be successful under these parasites called Glaziers.

The owners are not parasites. Also, the only thing ETH needs is luck. He has his own system and he’s got financial backing.

ChristoBam:
Nitogen definitely knows that Glaziers are parasites, sucking the life out of the club.

But for whatever reason, he's sticking to their defense.

I hope you're not one of those that see themselves in the position of the Glaziers in years? I know people like that. Think they'll become billionaires so mount a defence against anyone attacking Billionaires. No dey whine yourself sha.

You are OYO. I don’t care if they are billionaires. I just hate it when people that have not run a business before suggest or tell people that run empires and multi-billion businesses what to do.

I run businesses and manage funds for myself and for others, so, I know what’s going on. You guys just think it’s about spending and spending. It’s beyond that. There are several moving parts!

ChristoBam:
Omo, you just dey yarn another thing.

How much do these clubs bring in compared to United? We don't need to inject laundered money since we make crazy money every year.

It's that simple. We're not city. We're not Chelsea. We're Fvcking Manchester United.

Hehe, these clubs spend dirty money, we don’t have dirty to spend and we have matched them in terms of spending. You still want us to spend more so we can go bankrupt or so we can get to the point where we would have to sell a stake to a Hedge Fund that will take 30 percent of your cash flows at source?

Illimitable:
How can United go under when they are guaranteed £600m every season? Even during the pandemic lockdown when games were played closed doors, the club still generated well over £500m.

The traditional European clubs can never go under. You are just fashioning out excuses for the Glazers who have been largely irresponsible. Even if a manager makes a stupid purchase, you don’t wait 3 years to get rid of that player.

Every man and his rat knows Maguire/AWB have no business playing for a top 6 side in England and yet they are about to start their 4th season at United. By the time they realize they should be sold, their value would have diminished so much that no club would pay above £5m for an £80m Maguire.

Barca had to sell a part of their rights to future revenues to fund the club’s activities. The club owes 1.1 billion pounds because of financial irresponsibility.

I will give you a list of clubs that went under because of financial issues and had to strive to get back to the top. It took them over 10 years to. Some are still in the trenches as we speak. Leeds, AC Milan, Parma FC, etc.

Regarding players, unfortunately, our managers asked for them. How is that the owner’s fault? If they don’t buy players for a manager, you will still complain.

Trevor012:
Is it the club money or not? What do you mean by why should the money and revenue generated by the club be spent on the club? How does spending 1.1billion generated by the club on it's infrastructure, Sqaud etc put the club at risk of going under?

Because there are other costs called operating costs. You guys are talking about buying players and spending on stadium etc. won’t you pay salaries and stuffs.

Now, let me correct the notion that it’s the club’s money. Whatever money the club generates belong to the owners/shareholders, they can do what they like with it. We are fans, not owners, not operators. Players collect salaries, operators too, fans enjoy the game, shareholders bought the club and are entitled to all cash flows from the club.

Trevor012:
Even If it came in over 30years it's still 1.1billion taken away from the club. 1.1 billion injected into the club over the last 10 to 15years is massive.

Question is, why do you want to inject 3 billion into the club over 10 years when other clubs that earn the same revenue spend less than 2 billion (acquisitions and stadium maintenance) in the same period?

It’s business/financial irresponsibility! Football management has changed, it’s not just trophies, you also need to be financially responsible to ensure that you don’t go under!

Illimitable:
City’s superstars tend to fit into their system and they win all the time.

Real Madrid’s superstars always fitted into their system and they almost always win the CL.

United is the only club who spend big on useless players and achieve nothing with it. Ole spent £130m on Maguire and Wan Bissaka - that level of idiotic spending counts as The Glazers are spending and they are competing with other top spenders.

This is the obscenity going on at OT in Player sales. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to know that the entire structure is rotten. You know we are fücked as a club when Everton and Southampton know how better to generate funds from player sales than Glazers’ United.

Let’s face it, this club is doomed.

Again, I agree that they have not spent well, but I am against people saying that they are taking significant money out (which is not true as they have only received 125m in dividends in 10 years) and they don’t spend (which is also not true because they are spending at the same level with the other top spenders).

The club is not doomed, otherwise we would have become the likes of Newcastle, Leeds and Ipswich town.

We just need a system that works, then buy based on the system.

Trevor012:
That one Billion for reach build new and improved stadium self. Madrid and Barca are already working on their stadiums.

You are funny. So you think the 1.1 billion came in at once? It’s came in over 10-15 years, which means the new stadium gets built over 15 years. If you air mark 1billion for a project that will take 10-15 years, cost overruns will kill you. You will spend close to 3/4 billion because of inflation and increase in cost of materials.

There is a reason people take loans for capital projects.

Illimitable:
Laundered money from questionable sources that bring glory to the club is allowed. I am a football fan first and foremost and my biggest wish is for my club to bring glory.

Man City have already overtaken Arsenal in the number of PL titles won in the last 6 years or so. That’s what good money and a brilliant structure can do to the progress of a club.

The Glazers have taken £1 billion out of the club, City owners have injected £1 billion into theirs. You can’t compare a nourisher to a parasite. You think the average City fan cares where their funds come from?

Okay now. I have no further comments!

ChristoBam:
There's nothing they can do but sell the club.
They can never change cuz they need to repay debt and love their dividends.

The manager has limited players cuz he's only going after the players he's 100% sure about. If you fill a position with a player that ends up flopping, then forget about buying into that position again. Only a new manager after you get sacked will be able to replace that.

Oya, tell your people to buy na. They are ready to sell, but no one can cough out money to buy. You think say e easy?

Illimitable:
So you are telling me if United had Mbappe, Ronaldo, Haaland, etc at Old Trafford, their commercial value would not bring plenty of money in merchandise to the club?

If big names don’t translate to money, why are the Glazers on their knees begging Ronaldo to stay? They had to go and drag Alex Ferguson out of his retirement to add to the begging.

The more grade A assets you purchase, the more money the club would make in revenue.

That’s the thing, the fans don’t know what they want. You want big and established superstars that will make us spend 150m per player acquisition. Others want a system and players that will fit into it (not superstars). Spending big on established players has gotten us to where we are today. I would prefer the latter, but can fans like you ever be patient with the system approach?

One thing is clear to everyone, the Glazers are spending and they are competing with other top spenders!

ChristoBam:
Because everything about them is questionable. From where they get their revenues and all.

That’s the type of owners you guys want. Dem Russians or Arabs that will continue to inject laundered money from questionable sources into the club.

Guess what, the Glazers have even been spending at the same level with these guys.

ChristoBam:
Sign your manager. Spend 150m first season, 200m next season, probably 200 next season until you're finally completing for things.


These ones will spend 200m first, then 30 the following season. Then you get sacked.
Then new manager gets 200m with joy, then 50m the next summer, then another sack.

But after years, we're supposed to praise them cuz on the long run they've spent more than the ones splashing on the manager till they get sucess?

Loool, so, you want every manager to spend 500 million every two seasons? Jesus!

ovoP:
what we need is a philosophy and director of football, that will buy players that fit that system, and only higher coaches that fit that system, ETH didn't sign any player at ajax, he was given the player, but they were bought, because they could play a particular style of football he wanted... this buying of players, the coaches want is part of the reason we're in this mess, if things don't go well and he's sacked, the next manager comes, and tells you he wants his own.. that's another loss.. we have good players, that fit different styles.. the club should employ a DOF .. identify targets, and work with the manager, to see if he likes or wants them

This makes sense. I also said we need a system and buy players that fit into the system. But you know the problem, fans are not patient, they will say that the owners have refused to back the managers by not buying the players they’ve asked for.

ChristoBam:
And why do you think Ten Hag is not ready to risk on signings like SVS or Neves or Rice and co.

Buy them and you've gotten your midfielder. Don't even disturb them again.

But what do you want them to do? Should not buy manager’s preferred players? Or buy, and if the squad don’t do well, change it next year?

ChristoBam:
Did you even read what I said. Where did I say we've wasted money there. Back a manager every summer with transfers. That's what is expecting from a club like United.

I remember how hyped I was about LVG's second window. It was supposed to be a busy summer. Would have been an utter failure if not for the late purchase of Martial.

Don't let me even talk of Mourinho.



This is why we're where we are.

Back the manager. Oya tell me how much each manager spent during their times at Utd. I want to check something!

Illimitable:
The FFP have a 50% benchmark on wages/turnover.

If United’s turnover in the last 10 years is £6 billion. FFP allows them to spend at least £3 billion of that amount on players. United haven’t even spent half of that on players and you wonder why the squad is shit.

The Glazers must love you. You put up a better defence for them than any of their PR people trying to pacify angry United fans. By November, United would hover around 10th position and you people would start demanding another protest or a push to get ETH out of the club.

I still don’t understand your rationale for spending 3 billion on player acquisition in 10 years. It’s funny and does not make sense to me. Will it bring more revenue to the club or what?

Trevor012:
But United was debtless before the owners Came in. Can you list any advantages of having the glazers as owners and their debt on the club?

Simple, we have more money to spend on players. These guys commercialized man utd. You thing it’s easy to increase revenue to 600m with less success on the pitch?

Man utd has maintained relevance, we expanded our reach to Asia and Latin America under them.

Go check some teams that were in the same level with Utd 20 years ago, they disappeared. Some of them are only beginning to come back to the scene!

One question I have for you is, why did the fans and English big boys allow the sale to an American family? Why did you sell to a businessman, and now you want to tell them how to run the club?

ChristoBam:
If we spent 70m on Antony and it turns out it was a wrong signing. Guess what?

It's fvck off and make use of what you have from the Glaziers. No way, they'd spend on another RW.

This is a club that makes crazy money every year. From sweats of legends of this club(some who lost their lives in the process of trying to play for the club). These people put the Club on the world map and made it one of the most marketable in the world.

Manager is asking for a player, they want to buy, you are complaining, if they don’t buy for the manager, you will still complain. What is your problem gan?

ChristoBam:
You're almost talking like you're not a United fan.

Do you know how many signings Pep got in his first summer? Imagine, the following season, Pep spending was limited to 80m. And he had to bring in just cheap players. How do you think that'd have turned out?


They brought in LVG spent more than 150m first summer. How much did they spend the next?

They brought in Mourinho, spent crazy the first summer, how much did they spend the next?

They brought in Ole and did the same, spent crazy, how much did they spend the following summer?

I wonder how much we'd have spent last summer if not for the outrage from the super league.




You bring out all of the money spent and tell us we've spent bla bla bla. Meanwhile the Glaziers sign on a manager, spend like crazy then tell him to make use of what he has after.

Nawa o, but you said we don’t spend enough, not it’s they’ve wasted money. Which one are you sticking with? Stay for one place now, so thunder can fire you well.

Illimitable:
United make the most money in England. There’s no reason Chelsea, Man City(who can’t fill their seats) or even Juventus be in the same level as United.

£600m revenue per annum is £6 billion in 10 years. How are we spending only £1.3 billion of that on players?

Do a ratio of how much Chelsea, Man City, Juventus have spent on players in the last 10 years to their total revenue and you would get a true picture of how things have been under the Glazers.

So, you think we should spend revenues on player acquisition? Lol, who/what will take care of operating costs? You think players don’t receive salaries? There are other staff in the business, and there is lots of marketing costs that drive some of the revenues.

I am surprised that you even want Utd to spend beyond 1.5 billion on player acquisitions in just 10 years. Are you a prodigal son?

Trevor012:
550m original loan, over 700m paid on interest alone. Which kind wicked loan those owners take.

Some of you don’t understand how financing works. If you take a long term loan, you will pay more interests. Businesses that obtain short term loan due to some constraints refinance every now and then to extend the life of the loans and maintain a proper capital structure that will drive profitability.

Without debt, most businesses won’t be very profitable. Leverage enhances profitability!

Meanwhile, do you have a mortgage? Go calculate total interest you will pay over the life of the mortgage and tell me if it’s not well above the original mortgage amount.

Illimitable:
This dodgy net spend stats you have shown is actually because United don’t really make any money from player sales. You people should stop holding a brief for the Glazers with incomplete picture of squad investment.

Out of all the clubs that have spent over £900m in Europe, United have the lowest amount of the players sold in the last 10 years. This is why their net spend is skewed.

Okay, I agree that we don’t make money from player sales. But then, are we not among top 4 spenders? Also, what’s the gap between the top spender and Utd?

The owners are spending. Nobody should come tell me that they are not spending or interest payments is affecting player acquisition.

Bombblacks:
You are still typing on discussions with zero to little knowledge about. They continue to siphon tens of millions of pounds out of the club in dividend payments each year. They haven’t reduced the overall debt by any meaningful amount in years. We are still ~£500m in debt, the second-largest debt in English football after Spurs, who just a state-of-the-art football stadium whilst Old Trafford hasn’t had as much as a lick of paint in recent years. This is a club debtless before your darling owners Came in.

You obviously don’t understand what I typed. Reason you keep saying shyte!

How much has been siphoned in dividend payments since 2005? 125m. Please tell me how much that is on an annual basis and tell me how many players 125m will buy!

ChristoBam:
I'll keep this short.

Before the Glazier we always spent the most. We pretty much almost broke every tranfer record. Why? Because we had great revenues coming in.

And guess what we were debt free . Since they came in, we've been balls deep in loans. We spend 900m on transfers? Guess how much we spend on debt repayment? €700m+.

They've personally drained the football club off more than £1 billion in debts, interests and fees.

And they still have the audacity to take out millions In dividends each year.


And you're Fvcking telling me it's their right as owners and I should support another club if I don't like it. I'll just chill on name calling.

Who is the biggest spender in the EPL post Fergie era?

Bombblacks:
Other owners pump money from their pockets into the clubs they own while we have owners that continues taking without dropping a dime from their pockets. United interest payment of nearly 500M is more than the rest teams combined in the league for the last ten years and you are here talking nonsense about NetSpend.

Every business owner has a profitability objective! The fact that some owners don’t get dividends does not mean they don’t take out money one way or the other, except it’s dirty capital or Arab money.

Lol, just think about it. Let’s say a football club is owned by the fans. You will be fine going to public shareholders for contributions every year to spend on the club when the club itself generates 600m annually? Does that make sense to you? You only pump money into a business that is not able to sufficiently self fund its operations or expansion activities. Other clubs are not as business viable as Utd, simple!

Bombblacks:
Stop typing in discussion you have little to zero knowledge about. They used 90% of loan money to purchase United and saddled it with debts to the bank. United was debt free before those leaches came into the club, saddled It with debt and took money from it. Since 2005 we have spent almost £704m on interest for the loans taken out by the Glazers. Since the leveraged buy-out we have spent £1.1 bln on financing ( £704m interest, £244m debt repayments and £125m dividends) Averaged £42m in last 5 years. We have spent nearly 1.1billion on the glazers from 2005 till now. 1.1billion taken away from the club that would have gone a long way in developing infrastructure and the squad further.

Lol. Tell me banks or lenders that provide 90 percent of debt in an acquisition transaction? If you know what you are saying and you want to be transparent, you would have known or told us that they put in convertibles/PIK loans and equity. Equity was 10 percent, sub debt or PIK loans make up the 90 percent debt. Most times, you are not required to service the PIK loans. They are closer to equity because debt servicing is not mandatory!

Okay, back to how much they used to service loans. Yes, they spent 948 million on debt servicing for almost 20 years and spent over 1.5 billion on transfers on a 4 billion enterprise. That’s not bad at all. It shows they are good on the business/financial side of things. Moreso, they only paid dividends of 125 million in the same period. Can you tell me how much that is annually (that goes to them)? Less than 10m per annum. So tell me how they are taking significant money out!

What kinda further development do you want? Spend 3 billion on transfers in 20 years? You want us to spend more than what we’ve spent on transfers when we are the highest spender in Europe? That’s prodigality!

Honestly, you guys are just naive!

ChristoBam:
We've probably been the most poorly run club over how many years, but you're asking me if I want to teach them how to run their business.

Point out how many clubs that take out dividends yearly. Do you know the amount of revenue this club has generated in the past years based on the sweat of legends from the Busby babes to the early 90s sucess of SAF to the time of Cantona to the class of 99 e.t.c.

All of the exploits of these guys brought in the crazy amount of success and marketability we enjoy today. That's being exploited by the Glaziers.


But we should be thankfully because they back managers in their first seasons and throw them under the bus later.

Oya, what’s the cashflow left after taking care of operating costs? Also, what do you mean by exploits of these guys? Every damn thing has been priced into the value/price they acquired the business. It’s not a big deal.

Yes, they can run it better, but it’s not in your place to tell them what to do with their assets.

Meanwhile, see below Utd spend since Fergie left. You guys should stop saying that they haven’t/don’t spend, and that they should not take our 10m per annum. It’s their right as owners, if you don’t like it, stop supporting the club, let the value drop to 1 pound, so you can buy and run it the way you want!