₦airaland Forum

afrodoc2:
I don't get you. Are you saying that despite all the comical transfer windows we have all witnessed, and despite all the sacking and appointment of managers not working Judge, Arnold, Woodward have been excellent and none of them bears any responsibility in the position the club is in now?

Are you saying it is the fault of LVG, JM, Moyes, Ole only even though none of them was here for more than 2-3 years but Arnold, Judge, Woodward who have been here for an average of about 10 years have no share in this blame cake?

Why do we need 3 money men who all went to school together and who are obviously struggling with transfer negotiations? Why don't you want our transfer windows to be better organized and executed?

Why are you so quick to sack coaches after 1-2 seasons but still want to keep transfer negotiators who are currently the laughing stock of Europe in office for several years?

Well, that is how it works. Execs dont get sacked easily, managers and players leave. Meanwhile, if you sack the three of them, our commercial side will suffer, and there is no assurance that out football side will pick up. Do you want to go through both issues at the same time? We might just be competing with relegation bound clubs within 2 years.

Meanwhile, Woody and Arnold dont negotiate, you can turn your attention to Matt, he takes his time. Only issue is, if you sack him, and put a football person, nothing will change, particularly with transfers.

We need to understand 2 things: we dont need a football person before we can get it right because most successful clubs dont. Also, we need to continue to sack managers for us to win trophies because most successful clubs do it!

afrodoc2:
If you are banking on getting another manager like SAF easily instead of improving your system you might just be on a long thing.

We have sacked and appointed 4 different managers now, each one with a style different from the others, but there has been no real improvement.

Hmmmmm, I am not saying we should get a SAF, I am saying that we should continue to sack and hire. That's working for many clubs. The managers and players that will come and go, most times, the executives and directors stay.

Why don't you want us to sack Arnold, Judge, Woodward and see if there will be an improvement. After all they are the only constants in this era of mediocrity of the club.

Again, the managers and players that will come and go. Also, Sacking Arnold, Judge and Woodward at the same time will destabilize the club. Number one, they've been with the club for years, secondly, the commercial side is booming even though we are going through some issues on the pitch, it's the commercial side that makes us stay afloat, finally, do you know what it will take to replace them? One thing I would suggest is to see if Matt can be replaced with a football person, but if you do that, then who negotiates? because a football person may not be able to negotiate and close tranfers o.

afrodoc2:
So are you saying we changed a system that was working for a system that does not work?

Well, they kept the 'working' system until 2015 or so, Woody was in charge of everything till they made Matt the 'director of fooball'. Matt gets a list from the manager, secures approvals from the CEO and Woody, before going ahead to negotiate and close the deals.

afrodoc2:
David Gill had the ultimate equalizer which was Sir Alex Ferguson. That is the difference.

It is clear to most of us now that SAF was able to make a broken system work. There is no SAF now which means the broken system has to be fixed.

We won because of SAF DESPITE our outdated system of running the club. If you can't understand this then i can't help you.

P.S Your stance would have made sense only if the Woodward, Judge, Arnold combo had brought on the field success. But it has not, and yet you want us to persist with the same system despite it being clear that it is not working.

We keep changing player after player and manager after manager YET the only people who have remained in position since our struggles started should not be questioned, at least according to you.

But we tweaked the system after David left, because he had all the powers (negotiations, approving etc.). Now we have Matt, Arnold and Woody. Either systems are used by top football clubs in Europe. Not all leading clubs have 'football' directors, and very few football directors knew stuffs about football before joining.

Come to think of it, the combo of David Gill and Fergie worked because Fergie was a very good manager, and David was excellent even though he had no footballing experience but a good manager. See why the manager role is key.

odizeey:
Omo. Especially when you no too get money.

Because they know that the person is useless.

Panther7:
Maybe maybe not but David Gill didn't have absolute power like Ed. He worked hand in hand with Ferguson
Tell me who scrutinise Woodward's decision?

Let's like you see nothing wrong with some of the decision Woodward makes from type of coach, to signing of players.

Let’s break this down.

David didn’t have to choose a manager during his time. In fact, when he was leaving, himself + Fergie gave us Moyes.

Also, he was always ready to work with the manager to identify players. No decision making process there, it’s same as having Matt Judge get OGS’s list and securing an approval from the CEO and Woody to go buy the players. Maybe, Matt delays the process because he wants to ensure he gets good deals, of course, he will be appraised based on that. Meanwhile, if David was occupying Woody’s role before he resigned in 2013, then he had absolute power. No one to report to.

Again, I don’t see the need to have someone that knows football side of things replace or join Woodward before we can start winning trophies.

odizeey:
Apologize and move on.
Have you been told shut up in a village meeting before?

Panther7:
If I had said this some people will quote me and say I dey insult Woodward and Glazers.

Why did David Gill leave togther with ferguson?
I don't see anything changing soon except if revenues goes down, No doubt Ed has done very well in the commercial side no club chairman or CEO comes close to Ed when it comes to money but the football side is terrible.

But David Gill knew nothing about football. He was also a banker and a chartered accountant before he joined man Utd. In fact, he joined as a finance director before working his way up.

So, you wanna tell me why knowing ‘football side of things’ is needed for those roles?

cc afrodoc

OGS needs to aspire and perspire to inspire, else he will expire and be retired

pharod:
....
Ole is a good coach with vision but he's not a top coach. His taktiks are questionable and the problem is translating his vision on the pitch. A top team playing good football will always win trophies. That's the fact.

Vision without execution is just hallucination

melodyogonna:
We've played 4, won 3. Dunno where u got your win 1 draw 1 lose 1 results from

Lol, na today? Watch now

OGS, please stop deceiving us o, if you want to fail, please do so now, not all these win 1, draw 1, lose 1 paroles.

Joezinho:
Abeg which pattern we dey play!?

Insha-Allah pattern

Nice goal.

afrodoc2:
Marina and Judge are both clueless about footballing matters, just that Marina is a better negotiator. Chelshit is just marginally better than us.

Look at the managers they have been appointing. Each manager is followed by a manager with almost complete opposite philosophy. How can a club make continuous progress with that type of pattern?

Then look at all the players Chelshit have bought and not used over the years. Baba Rahman, Djibolodji, Miazga, Drinkwater, Bakayoko, Morata et al.

Compare that to clubs like Bayern, Dortmund, Leipzig that are run by footballing people.

All Marina is good at is sealing good deals. In terms of talent identification and development Chelshit has underperformed big time just like us.

Marina is not the correct example to use. Both clubs have been wasting money and talent like no man's business..

Let’s be frank. Very few successful clubs have football directors that know a lot about footballing matters. Real Madrid, Liverpool are examples of clubs with directors that have almost zero footballing experience. In fact, I don’t think Madrid has a football director sef.

I don’t think there is a need for a DoF before a structure can be put in place. The buck is with the transfer Dept. They need to define and decide the type of players we should sign. Of course, managers can provide inputs, but they system should determine who the club signs.

Panther7:
I see sarcasm in what you have said.

Really? Nawa o, with good tactics and nice substitution decisions, we go beat these boys now.

elrony:
We'll come back strong.

Problem is, the second wave is here, UK govt has refused to allow fans go to the stadium. By January, we probably will start hearing that the govt is bailing out some small EPL and second division clubs.

Whatever cash is available, na to dey manage o. E no easy.

Nezzjnr:

This team should be able to beat Brighton na.

elrony:
Sir Nitrogen please push to sign Telles, Sancho and Upamecano for us, you can sack Ole the night after.

Jah will bring more ripe dividends at the next AGM

Edakun epp us.

Lol......amen to the ripe dividends o, COVID has done a lot of damage to the stock price. Na siddon look remain so o

timay:
It's like Ole wants to intentionally crash out of Carabao.

That line up get as e be

No story, na only Carabao sure for the guy this season.

afrodoc2:
That is where a DOF comes in. Someone with football know-how who has a long term vision of how the team should play, what sort of players we need to implement that style, and the coach who can best oversee everything.

If you have a possession minded manager for 2 years and buy 5 players, then a pure ultra-defensive counter-attack coach for 2 more years and buy 5 more players, then a quasi-pressing coach and buy 5 players you will have a team of strange bedfellows in which the parts don't really fit.
That is what we have.

You can't pity a rich man who is penny wise and pound foolish. The Glazers are the ones that appointed Woodward and continue to give him overall control over the football matters even when it is obvious that he is weak in that area.
By keeping him in charge of that part of the club and not appointing a savvy football mind to oversee it they have contributed to this problem.

I believe i have said this before, but if i had a seat on the board like you i would appoint Ralf Rangnick as DOF and Julian Nagelsmann as manager. Please pass this message along to your colleagues.

Lol, colleague kwa?

Someone technically has that role already na. Matt Judge. Marina does same for Chelsea. Titles are just different.

TrebleChamp:
All this Sancho or nothing crew insisting the club spend that massive €120m no go sabi manage money. Give any of them ₦1m, he go shock you after 1 week to see how dem don blow the money on irrelevant stuff. They think it is feasible for a club to be spending £200m every season on signing players? Other staff no go collect salaries abi or the club no go carry out capital projects like maintainance of Old Trafford and Carrington. Only expensive players are quality player to them, see wetin Fraudgba dey serve us since we broke transfer record to sign him..

I agree with you, even though Pogba is my favourite. I blame OGS for Poogba‘a performances. Pogba played very well under Mou even though they were not friends.

nani667:
And some noobs will still be blaming Woodward and the board that they Don't back managers

#OleOUT

Noobs ke? Calm down na!

afrodoc2:


Na joke i dey joke. You all need to relax. That way you will have peace of mind. Let me give you my opinion.

1) In my opinion it is fully confirmed and certified that Ole is not tactically sound. Sooner or later (probably sooner) we need to get a forward thinking manager. Ole will have to go at some point IMO but it is still too early in the season for the kind of overreaction that has been seen on this thread. He has to be seen to have failed before he can be sacked. That is how jobs work, it is not normal to sack someone in anticipation of his failure cos no one knows tomorrow. No manager will get sacked after 2 games so Ole out people have to relax.........it is not happening soon.

2) The major issue we need to sort (which i have mentioned before) is not sacking Ole, but getting the right manager to replace him. If we hurriedly sack and appoint like we did with JM/Ole we will be back in this same position in 2years.


3) I don't think the manager we need to move forward is Poch. His teams played a boring, narrow, and physical style very reliant on peak Kane, Dembele, Ali, Eriksen. Immediately a number of those guys lost form his team collapsed. His system is not one that can work long term in a big club.
I don't see Poch as this extraordinary tactician especially in terms of attacking football and do not believe he is the right man for the job.


4) Even though Ole is tactically poor, i think the club could have done better in terms of player acquisition. JM made a number of mistakes in this regard and i believe Ole has done the same thing.
He has bought some decent players that stylistically are wrong for the team he is trying to build. Maguire is too slow to play the highline which we need to maintain a good press and keep good pressure on small teams, AWB is too unskilled to play for a big team as a RB (I warned people here about this before we bought him and now he gets criticized almost every match day for this).

Sometimes it is not about the individual quality of the player but how he fits in a system. Our team has been built like a mansion that had different sections designed by different architects. Ole, just like JM before him has to take a large chunk of the blame in this as well.

5) Finally, even with this squad our football should be much better. And we can't blame it all on fatigue. These problems have been there since last season but the quality of a number of our players allows us to get away with a poor system.
We don't know how to press as a team. We don't know how to play pass and move. We don't make use of triangles. Our full backs are rarely set up to have space in the final third because our side to side transition is SLOW.
All this is on Ole (NO MATTER THE QUALITY OF THE PLAYERS). Ole in people should accept this as well because i think this is what annoys others the most.

Hmmm, this is really detailed and good. Maybe we don’t sign players for the manager again, we should focus on signing players for the team. OGS has also failed in terms of identifying good players to buy. Mou and LVG did fail as well.

Chai, we suppose dey pity dem Glazers sef......

afrodoc2:
The shareholders have arrived. If you no get money hide your face.

Lol, egbon, why are you like this now?

Panther7:
All these one no consign them ooo it's #OLEOUT, If OGS goes normalcy will return

I still don’t get it, you want them to sign more than 8 players in 2 seasons? Omo, una matter strong o!

GloryIsaac:
Liverpool and Man City have strengthened their squad depth, but Man Utd (the club that can only do what other teams dream of in the transfer market) is still pricing players up and down.

If Manchester United won the English Premier League last season, I guarantee you that they will not sign any player this window.

The club owners are also dealing with their NFL club in U.S, and only come back to get dividends. It's about profit, not football. Strictly business.

Oga, every football club owner cares about profit. You guys better come together, and buy the club, then keep buying 200m players worth every year, and see if you won’t go bankrupt. You think it’s just about revenues, what about salaries and wages, and transfers?

All these dividend yarns, since 2005, these guys never commot total of 100m in dividends. You know how much equity they contributed to buy the club?

Bros, stop behaving like those unlearned YouTube analysts that yarn opata.

Panther7:
You think losing the next 3 games will make they sack Ole?

Why not? My only issue is that the id1ot will win 1, lose 1 and play a draw to deceive people like you.

Panther7:
Hmmm but who sacks a manager just 2 games into the new season?
Ole isn't going anytime soon except till the end of the season. We just have to live with it for now.

Lukatew, let him just try to lose the next 2-3 games.....safe journey

sifo:
I think I can deduce what I want from this response. Its funny how it seems most people here see the figure as unbelievable. Oh well

People earn figures close to the equivalent of that amount in Naira in Lagos and not even close to GM level lol

Correct. I was earning about that amount monthly when I was in the UAE (Dubai). And I was working with a small firm. That was the offer I got straight from Lagos.

It all depends on your qualifications, the sector/industry etc.

Panther7:
So what's the way forward now?
Sack Ole?

No, give him 500m and a 10 year contract...