₦airaland Forum

I must say though that we’ve improved slightly in terms of set piece defending.

Obviously, Arsenal is more compact reason we’ve had issues doing anything tangible upfront. Yes, two shots on target, but they were not clear cut chances.

Liverpool came all out for us last weekend, reason we were able to create some chances.

brainiacadeboi:
Imagine a front line of Wirtz/Gyokeres/Amad

Imagine imagine imagine until they get here. Then we start cussing them.

adisaaowala:
Read the discussion from the beginning

The common pattern is that we are struggling with tepid and poor displays vs Lower teams and this needs to be addressed by the manager - that's my point!

Enough of incessantly swinging from " quality of our players is too poor " to "they are actually good but inconsistent" rigmarole!

Exactly my point. Today, they are not good enough, tomorrow, oh they are great but no dedication. Also, they talk about overhaul and surgery but then most of the current players were not here 2-3 years ago. We currently have 8-10 new players in the first team. Unless Rashford and Dalot is the team.

Leyqute:
Players missing 5 yard passes and jogging lazily around has nothing to do with the system.

Re missing 5 yard passes, yes players will have bad days, e.g Mainoo stinking up the joint in a game after playing very well the previous week. It happens. But it does not mean Mainoo is bad. It’s on the manager to continue to trust that he will come good in that game or make substitutions.

Only an alien or a superstar will give you a 10 performance every game, and if we have 11 superstars on the pitch, then we don’t need a manager. Just ask ChatGPT to give you a formation and subs suggestions based on the available super resources and we are home and dry.

adisaaowala:
If this is the case, then I am afraid it's still a tactical/structural issue because the "whole squad" can't just decide to underate the opposition at the same time

Does not make sense. So they underrate almost all small games and focus on the big boys because of coverage? Nah.

Leyqute:
Everyone wants to turn up in a big clash and score goals because of the massive coverage. When it’s Crystal Palace and Soton, there are less eyes watching, so the players get slopping and sometimes don’t even bother doing the basics.

No now. Your thesis won’t fly. Everyone knows that small games give you the right position on the table. Players tend to flex their muscles again small clubs and only turn up a few times when playing bigger teams.

Leyqute:
Players missing 5 yard passes and jogging lazily around has nothing to do with the system.

Who is jogging lazily on the pitch? Rashford and maybe Garnacho. And I approve whatever disciplinary measures Amorim is taking to address that. But the other players are workaholics on the pitch. Ugarte, Bruno, Maz, Dalot, Mainoo, Erasmus, Amad, Martinez, etc don’t jog around.

ChristineC:
Hojlund is at least 2 years away if not 3, from being anything resembling a constant goal threat.
in the meantime, a reasonable coach will seek an experienced striker. Hojlund gets isolated because of two things 1. he cannot keep the ball long enough for the support cast to arrive 2. he hardly make intelligent runs.
the few times he manages any of these in a month, he gets chances to do something in front of goal.

You really think Erasmus will be better in the current system? I honestly don’t think so. He would do better elsewhere. A reasonable coach would seek an experienced striker, but if the market is not open or there is no funds, then you may need to tweak things, e.g 3-5-2 with a very mobile midfielder that can support him upfront. Maybe a box to box kind of player that is always available to help in the midfield and can also take some pressure off Erasmus upfront.

We can’t keep doing the same thing over and over. It’s insanity.

adisaaowala:
If a team is consistent vs lower teams but falters against the big boys everytime, it wouldn't be out of place to exclusively label it a "quality" issue and say "ah - na there their talent reach".

However, it seems like the opposite is the case under Amorim.

I think the manager needs to sit down and re-assess the team's approach to our games vs lower teams - the Smash and grab approach that works vs Top sides wouldn't necessarily yeild much against the likes of Brighton etc and i think that's the point Nitrogen is trying to make..not necessarily about formation.

Our last 3 games vs Bournmouth, Wolves and Newcastle - we literally failed to create clear cut chances, despite playing 2 of those games at OT.

The game vs Newcastle ....we saw the effect when Mainoo came in for Orobosa - even though it didn't result in goals, the Magpies' dominance stopped and we started stringing passess together and keeping possession.

We want to see similar changes in tempo and momentum w.r.t the glaring problem of struggling to create chances vs Minnows..especially at OT.

It doesn't even always have to be facilitated by a change in personnel or formation - asking player X to drift in more or drop deeper etc while player Y pushes further to yeild visible, glaring positive effects...stuffs like that!

Tbh, other than the tweaks and stuff, he also needs to be realistic and pragmatic. If 3-4-3 is not working with these players, he should try something else until he signs his players. There is no sense in doing same thing over and over at the detriment of the club. If it’s not working, we will be relegated. That’s a serious consequence.

ETH realized this early and he was able to achieve some success. The mistake he made was not reverting back to whatever style he was trying to implement previously after getting his players. If we were in a great position, say top 10 and we are getting some wins, some draws and some losses, then it would be easy to justify whatever he’s doing right now. Pep and co stuck with their stuff because they were not in relegation or bottom 6 battle. But we are not even average in terms of performance. Not helping at all given we brought the guy to improve the team after ETH’s disastrous start this season.

Lana1:
And you think showing up is what these ones have been doing? They didn't show up in ten Hag's donut midfield. They haven't played well in Amorim's 3-4-3 but but but 4-4-2 is all that is needed to bring out the best in them before they can beat Bournemouth

Haha, but they showed up against Liverpool and City, but not against Bou. I hear you.

eph12:
That is not what Amorim said. Or maybe he has finally trained them and that's why they were able to get a result against LFC? I want to believe you're not trolling and very serious

That’s what he said. Seriously. He downplayed it though, but I think the training helped. The score would have been different tbh. Could also be that the tactic worked well against them.

https://utddistrict.co.uk/ruben-amorim-man-utd-training-three-things/03/01/2025/

Leyqute:
They actually don’t. Missing 5 yard passes and failing to track an opposition is nowhere near giving your all.

Lol, that sounds unfair. Especially if it’s a new system for them and the manager has not had the chance for trainings.

Okay, so the team trained consistently this week and we played well against Liverpool. Amorim downplayed it though, but it seems the training helped. Maybe Amorim has not had much time to get the players to understand the system or he is not a fan of football training.

https://utddistrict.co.uk/ruben-amorim-man-utd-training-three-things/03/01/2025/

eph12:
What are the things you see that makes you think the players have not trained in a long time?

Amorim mentioned it himself na. And we all see it in the results. Lol. Abeg leave me.

nitrogen:
The players play like they have not trained in a long time. Yes, there are misplaced passes once in a while, but that’s normal, every team does it. Go check the likes of Real Madrid and Liverpool. Players are humans.

Onana is clearly not good enough. No one should dispute that. The set piece issues are on the set piece manager. We were not conceding those type of goals pre Amorim.

Funny thing is Amorim recently said that he has not trained the team yet. How does he expect the players to understand what he’s trying to implement sef? Wahala.

Lana1:
Conte had players who showed up and stayed consistent

Lol. They decided not to show up for previous managers, then they showed up for Conte, and then after three years sent him packing. Wow.

eph12:
Of course not everything. The coach must continue to train his players until they can play the way he wants them to play with their eye closed.

But can you state the things that are on the player that you have noticed in the last couple of games?

The players play like they have not trained in a long time. Yes, there are misplaced passes once in a while, but that’s normal, every team does it. Go check the likes of Real Madrid and Liverpool. Players are humans.

Onana is clearly not good enough. No one should dispute that. The set piece issues are on the set piece manager. We were not conceding those type of goals pre Amorim.

We are playing Sou next in the league, hopefully we can beat them. These guys are 20th FFS.

maik99:
The point is the players need to be ready to give 100% minute 1-90 every friggin game
You cannot have been watching our matches since Amorim came and be talking about system
A systemic issue was when our midfield was wide open under Ten Hag , to cite an instance, not when players are committing stupid errors and getting out worked by the opponent

Hehe, so you think the players don’t give their all every game? They do, it’s just difficult if it’s a new system, it will take time and most will never get there and will need to be discarded because they don’t suit the style.

Lana1:
Conte completely changed his system and switched to 3-4-3 immediately after the 3-0 Arsenal loss and he stuck with it till he was sacked. He didn't change it because he was playing against almighty defensive Nottingham Forest.

Conte had the players, no? We don’t have the players for 3-4-3.

adisaaowala:
But just like you said earlier, these same players have shown that they can turn up...especially vs the big teams...

If you check, the performance today was very similar to what we saw vs city and even Arsenal (despite the loss).

I think the adaptability Nitrogen is talking about, isn't necessarily formation based.

Thanks. I am not saying we should do 3-4-3 today, 4-3-2 or whatever tomorrow, but there are lots of tweaks during the game which could also include deciding to have more players than 2 in the middle of the park when you realize that we are overrun completely. Sometimes, you just decide to be unpredictable with your set up.

Amorim won’t survive if he insists on doing the same thing over and over especially with the current players. The league is absolutely brutal.

maik99:
🚨 Bruno Fernandes: “We can't be satisfied. I'm pretty upset”.

“If we can show this at Anfield, why can't we do this every week? We need to be aware that we need much more from ourselves”.

Cc nitrogen

Lol, Bruno says this everytime. It shows they are also pissed off. You think they wake up every day deciding when to be serious and unserious? Loool

maik99:
Alonslow na speed merchant ke
The point you are trying to make is dead on arrival

Sorry, Moses was the speed merchant with Alonso more positionally aware and disciplined.

eph12:
According to nitrogen, the players are already giving it their all, we just need to simply change from 343 to 442 for us to start winning games and scoring goals

No, my point is, a bit of flexibility until you get your players would help. Don’t get carried away with this performance against Liverpool. Everything is not solely on the players.

I remember when Conte switched to his 3-4-3 at Chelsea. It was successful because the players he met were perfect for it. Matic, Kante in the middle, Costa the one man mopol striker, Moses and Alonso are speed merchants that were perfect for the wing back positions. The defenders were sturdy. And Conte focused more direct play, no wasting of time, you get the ball, you try to get to opponents box within a few minutes. Also, the formation was new in the EPL, took sometime for teams to understand what was going on.

eph12:
Which manager do you know that changes formation every match? Play 442 today, play 343 the next

Not every match, but you could start with your 3-4-3 and make those changes during the game. Adaptability is key. Sometimes, the changes are not visible, you realize it as soon as we start playing well in the same game. Every successful manager do it. You can’t stick with something that you don’t have tools for.

Lana1:
New manager. New system. The 3-4-3 he is trying to implement hasn't clicked yet but you want him to be switching formation every 1 game because Bruno and Dalot that turned up against Liverpool today suddenly forgot how to play football 3 days later against Bournemouth.
In situations like that it is the players that will have to change not the system. We have seen what Amorim's system looks like against top teams and it is clear it is the players that are stupîd. Not the manager. For example Hojlund today

No way, so the players should change, but the manager should not be flexible? That’s not how it works at all. Don’t forget that we bought them before Amorim joined.

A style that isolates our striker against small teams. Erasmus saw lots of the ball today because it was Liverpool that is more focused on scoring vs defending. Unfortunately, he is not the type that can do much with it, which means against small teams, he’s completely useless.

Lukaku, Osinmen type of players would do better as they are more aggressive, will come hustle for the ball and will do something on their own when they receive the ball. Erasmus is not fit for this style at all. In the meantime, to mask his weakness, what would a reasonable manager do?

eph12:
We can almost predict the starting 11 if most of the players are fit. Bruno, Amad and Hojlund as attackers. Mainoo and Ugarte have been playing together for some time now. Dalot and Maz have been consistent as WB for some games now. I think its the CB that hasn't really been consistent. As for the Case and Eriksen midfield against Newcastle, Amorim needed to rest his first choice which are Mainoo and Ugarte

The midfield and defence have seen various players since Amorim joined. How many times have Ugarte and Mainoo started together this season? Also the back three.

Lana1:
If we lose the next match watch him say the manager should ditch his tactics to accommodate players wey no get any strength in the first place

Players wey no get strength played well against Liverpool but don’t want to play well against Bou and Westham. You think they are happy that we are 14th and are being beaten by the likes of Wolves? Make it makes sense na.

Lana1:
Pretty obvious. Yet our resident inert gas will keep saying it's the manager not playing to the strength of the players

We cannot do much with an inflexible style. That’s the fact! We are too predictable and that’s why every dick and Harry is ready to beat us. There are games where a simple 4-4-2 will dismantle the opponent. Flexibility ensures you exploit the strengths of your players and mask their weaknesses.