fkaz:
That is to say you are not a partner, if you are not paying your tithe.

I prefer to take my "tithes" to drink peppersoup. . .

This space is reserved

somalia9:


I have no problem finding food. You on the other hand need to start evolving in to anything that looks human. The monkey look that you people have only shows that you guys are behind not only mentally by evolutionary.

Whites need to bring back slavery. You weak people were given freedom out of the kindness of white peoples heart.

Excuse me, why you dey call my paddy monkey banana?

dorox: Though the supply for miracles is limited to 1.3 million meaning that not everyone will get theirs this year, but you should not worry if you are among the top tier partners, you are given priority over the ordinary members.

Abegi, na which tire you dey talk about? Na aeroplane tire abi na moto tire?

inurmind:

Well he is my spirit daddy so I could ask him, although you will have to pay me o.

Today sef he saved me from the evil spirits one of our christian sisters sent to me, if not I for done die like that.

That one mean say - evil spirit fit kill person be that o?

Atheist:-D:


Me too. I need a miracle

I plan to get one. I have no limbs.... will it be a hard sell if I tried to get him to heal it

Err? how do you type all these doc? *me don turn bugs bunny for here o*

Football fans go still burn that church, with all these rubbish! I wonder why na Nigeria all them them messages dey come out.

Refusal to thank Wizard = roast like turkey for hell fire? what the f/u/c/k?

^^^You have made a very valid point, he should be detained by the police, but not by the church. . .i think?

Na wa o

This is a serious matter. Many churches get detention inside them. I heard from a member that synagogue has detention too plus a torture room (dont know how true this is). But me, i don tire for Nigerian churches.

searay: GEJ
.
.
.
.
.
Running out very very fast to avoid stones

Someone should get that nigger, we need to roast you alive.

The man is Shehu Shagari because when Shagari was president, 1 naira = 1 dollar fifty cent, and that was the golden era of Nigeria.

I am surprised no one has mentioned Pastor Adeboye, Pastor TB Joshua and Bishop Oyedepo. Hmn

^^^I love the word greenhorns, unfortunately, you are correct in that assertion. And yes, i never for once considered billionare as mainstream christian to start with, and mesef (not a mainstream christian either. . .or so i immagine).

greatgenius: lol very ironic..if anything you need to take back yoir thinking processes from the "original serpernt" and stop taking the word of “experts” and “reliable sources"(bible etc) as the truth.." A rational approach to life is based on sound reasoning, not emotional reactions or conditioned responses,(sound reasoning which you have failed to display through out our interactions except display conditioned responses)..
you need to reason things out on your own way in order to know what is true or not. This is the principle of living consciously. Awareness makes the difference between pawn or master. And i am afraid most of you are being used as pawns..

you cant read the bible for instance and take everything in as TRUTH and then tell me you are thinking. Are you kidding me. You must create your own system or be enslaved by another man's system. Anyone who does not do their own thinking will have their lives thought out for them by others willing to do the thinking. The bosses, the rulers and those in positions of control and power are the ones who are willing to do the thinking and create systems to direct the lives of the unthinking masses. you need to step out of the manipulations brother.

i have said this before on another thread and i will repeat here an adage that goes " Fools will be fools as certain as fate. men of wisdom use fools as tools. for that and only that is the use of fools".. Food for thought..

put your fear of "hell" and eternal damnation aside for a minute and really read the bible with sound reasoning. the bible will become nothing else but another book full of distortions albeit some truth that you have failed to see as a result of your fear..

And i agree with all you have said 120%. But most of us Africans/Nigerians are trained to think only in one direction, any direction contrary to that becomes the wrong way.

chukwudi44: @op

Inasmuch as Jesus preexisted prior to his incarnation.He is not angel micheal and was never referred as such anywhere in the scriptures.All this are a product of your wild imaginations.

You never win for our 40+ page Jesus=angel micheal thread? Oya, start explaining. I put it to you that Jesus Christ already existed before the angel of God appeared unto mary, sheesh, i don cancel the feast of annunciation be that o!

greatgenius: ^^^^ really.... btw even if you have not heard or seen, are you suggesting that it cant be "pulled" off by anyone esle( using your term)... speaking of pulling off do you believe Jesus was the only one to have risen from the dead?

Even the bible records more than 1 person that came back from the dead,
But some of the things Jesus performed don break records already, no need to argue am.

truthislight:

you guys are deceiving yourselves.

Or better yet, you guys have allowed the oldest cunned artist "the original serpent" to play tricks on your minds.

Is your mind so feeble that a simple logical talk is confusing your mind already?

greatgenius: at bolded no they have CHOSEN to use their sixth sense.. you can too if you choose. do you?.. everything is a choice.. yes you might come here with some "gifts" through which to experience physicality BUT it doesnt mean that what others can do you are incapable of.. i tell you what tehre is nothing that jesus and other "masters" did that you cant do and even more if you choose.

But still, Jesus was able to perceive thoughts, i aint seen or heard of anyone else being able to pull that one?

Gracias. . .

This is the reason why i quoted the "have", maybe i should have used "with", so the bolded becomes: some people with the ability to connect their mind to their souls. . .but all these things are not really so documented like that, so i dont have all the facts, only know some.
And yes, i agree with you greatgenius.

Billyonaire: All humans are psychic, cos we all are souls taking up physical form to learn new tricks on Earth. We are the aliens on Earth and the UFOs are the Reality back home who come to check on us. We are just here so psychic abilities are what enables us trace our way back home. Thank you.

Here is my give and take on psychics:
All humans are potential psychics because they have souls. The soul does not need physical eyes to see, or physical ears to hear. However, some people "have" the ability to connect their mind to their souls - these are the set of people termed psychics. Whether they are prechosen, or anyone can learn to be a psychic or not is beyond the scope of my writing, we might need to research that one - i dont know too much astral sciences.

Concerning the stuffs about UFOs, well, i am not in agreement at all.

1. You do not know the meaning of beg, prayer is not begging - simple begging.
2. "All men before the world [our presence on this earth] knew the Glory of God, because testified, spiritually as human souls, individually in assembly of men that God is our Lord and all worship is due Him as he commands. Every prophet had glory with God before they became humans on earth to carry out their individual prophetic duties." These assertions are entirely unscriptural and probably your church doctrines.
3. John 1:15 - this is very clear, because the same Jesus said before Abraham was, He was. - so if you cannot believe that, well. . .not my fault.
4. John 1:3 - this is a statement of fact, which shows that Jesus existed clearly before all creations. He is the only begotten of the father.
5. But neither Jesus nor me was in existence before Adam, the father of all => So you know more than Jesus? did you read my entire original post? Jesus was originally in heaven right from the begining, before coming down to earth as man. That is why he is always talking about heaven, and saying things like:

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

The above verse is clear about Christ's pre-existence in glory before the world began. The next verse also confirms that Jesus pre-existed in Heaven.

John 3:12-15
[b]12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
[/b]14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

If you claim that your soul existed in heaven before you were born on earth, how come you cannot remember anything about heaven? The soul does not forget as far as i know. Then how come John the baptist was claiming that Jesus was before him?


Also consider this, clearly from the scriptures, angels were created before man, and satan had already fallen from heaven before man was created.
So for Jesus to say stuffs like: I saw satan fall like lightening from heaven, he was obviously talking about the distant past when he was in heaven.

And some of us believe that Jesus existed as arcangel micheal, before coming down from heaven. And that is the essence of my thread titled -
Is Michael The Archangel Really Jesus? (revelation 12:7)

To begin, let's look at the phrase *angel of the LORD* in the story of Moses and the burning bush-

Exo 3:2 And the *angel of the LORD* appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Now in verses four and six, who is identified as being in the bush?-

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, *I am* the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Notice that the angel (messenger) of verse 2 is really none other than God Himself. This is confirmed in the New Testament-

Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an *angel of the Lord* in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,

Now note the following-

Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, *I AM* THAT *I AM*: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, *I AM* hath sent me unto you.

When asked what His name is, the God of the patriarchs of the Old Testament replies *I AM*. Now look again in the New Testament-

Acts 7:32 Saying, *I am* the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Then Moses trembled, and durst not behold.

John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, *I am*.

Jesus Christ had just identified Himself as the One who is the God of the Old Testament patriarchs, who was present in the burning bush speaking to Moses. Just for extra measure-

John 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
John 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, *I am* he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, *I am* he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Jesus Christ again makes it clear He is the *I am*. Merely speaking the words made those present fall over. So the *angel of the Lord* and Jesus are identical to, and synonymous with, the *I am* that met Moses at the burning bush.

Now look at the story of Hagar in Genesis-

Gen 16:7 And the *angel of the LORD* found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.

Gen 16:9 And the *angel of the LORD* said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
Gen 16:10 And the *angel of the LORD* said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Gen 16:11 And the *angel of the LORD* said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Hagar has been visited and spoken to by the *angel of the Lord*, but look who she says it was-

Gen 16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

Again the *angel of the Lord* is actually none other than the LORD Jesus Christ Himself. Now a little later in Genesis-

Gen 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad; and the *angel of God* called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is.
Gen 21:18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation.

Who would make a great nation of the lad? Surely not a mere angel, but actually Jesus Christ Himself.

Now let's look at the story of Abraham and Isaac-

Gen 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.
Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

God speaks to Abraham, giving him instructions to follow. Look who speaks to Abraham next-

Gen 22:11 And the *angel of the LORD* called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

Gen 22:15 And the *angel of the LORD* called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Gen 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Who will bless Abraham and multiply his seed? Notice the transition from *angel of the LORD* in verse 15 to the LORD (Jesus Christ) in verse 16?

Now on to Jacob-

Gen 31:11 And the *angel of God* spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.

Who does this messenger identify Himself as?-

Gen 31:13 I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.

This vow of Jacob's is found in Gen 28-

Gen 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
Gen 28:21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
Gen 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

So the *angel of God* of Gen 31:11 is again none other than the LORD God (Jesus Christ).

Now to the Israelites in the wilderness-

Exo 14:19 And *the angel of God*, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:

Who went before them?-

Exo 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:

Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, [that is] as the angel of the LORD before them.

Neh 9:7 Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth out of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham;
Neh 9:8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:
Neh 9:9 And didst see the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, and heardest their cry by the Red sea;
Neh 9:10 And showedst signs and wonders upon Pharaoh, and on all his servants, and on all the people of his land: for thou knewest that they dealt proudly against them. So didst thou get thee a name, as it is this day.
Neh 9:11 And thou didst divide the sea before them, so that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; and their persecutors thou threwest into the deeps, as a stone into the mighty waters.
Neh 9:12 Moreover thou leddest them in the day by a cloudy pillar; and in the night by a pillar of fire, to give them light in the way wherein they should go.
Neh 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:
Neh 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:
Neh 9:15 And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promisedst them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.

1 Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1 Cor 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1 Cor 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Again, the messenger or *angel of God* is the same as the LORD (Jesus Christ).

Now in the story of Balaam, we begin with God speaking directly to Balaam-

Num 22:20 And God came unto Balaam at night, and said unto him, If the men come to call thee, rise up, and go with them; but yet the word which I shall say unto thee, that shalt thou do.

Then a transition from God to *angel of the LORD*-

Num 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the *angel of the LORD* stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

So guess who was standing before Balaam? None other than Jesus Christ. The *angel of the LORD* is used many times in verses 23,24,25,26,31,32,34,35 and the LORD in verses 28,31. Then continuing in Chapter 23 God meets Balaam in verse 4 and the LORD is mentioned in verses 5 and 16. These titles are being used interchangeably. In each case it is again referring to the LORD Jesus Christ.

Now in the book of Judges-

Judg 2:1 And an *angel of the LORD* came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

By now this should be easy. Just who brought the Israelites out of Egypt and made the covenant with Israel that He would never break - *an angel of the LORD* or Jesus Christ, GOD Himself? Yes, the answer is both, one and the same.

Now look who visits Gideon later in Judges-

Judg 6:11 And there came an *angel of the LORD*, and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites.

Note what this messenger (angel) says-

Judg 6:12 And the *angel of the LORD* appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

THE LORD IS WITH THEE ... it was indeed Jesus with Gideon, note-

Judg 6:20 And the *angel of God* said unto him, Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay them upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so.
Judg 6:21 Then the *angel of the LORD* put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the *angel of the LORD* departed out of his sight.
Judg 6:22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an *angel of the LORD*, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an *angel of the LORD* face to face.

Now look who (again) speaks-

Judg 6:23 And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.

Gideon had been speaking with the LORD Jesus Christ all along.

On to Judges 13-

Judg 13:3 And the *angel of the LORD* appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.

*Angel of God/the Lord* appears in verses 9,13, and 15-18.
Note what Manoah asks in verse 17 and the answer in verse 18:

Judg 13:17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
Judg 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

The Hebrew word translated "secret" in the King James (H6383) also can mean "wonderful". Note that this is a title for Jesus:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So who had Manoah and his wife been speaking with?

Judg 13:21 But the *angel of the LORD* did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an *angel of the LORD*.
Judg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.

In the instances I have cited, the phrase *angel of the LORD* or *angel of God* actually meant Jesus Christ, who is the *chief messenger (angel) of the LORD (God the Father)*.

Here is a further text to consider-

Gen 48:14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The *Angel which redeemed me* from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Notice that Israel was talking about God and then transitioned to an angel-

God, --- before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk
God --- which fed me all my life long unto this day
The *Angel --- which redeemed me* from all evil
(*the Angel* that) --- bless the lads; and let my name be named on them
(*the Angel* that) --- let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth

This is referring back to Gen 28:13-15 and the Lord's promise to Jacob (Israel)-

Gen 28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Gen 28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.
Gen 28:16 And Jacob awaked out of his sleep, and he said, Surely the LORD is in this place; and I knew it not.

So in Gen 48:16 Israel is speaking of God as a redeeming angel. Again, not angel the sense of a created being, but rather in the generic sense of the word, meaning messenger. What created angel could redeem anyone? None. Redemption is found only in Jesus Christ, the very Son of God, and that is exactly who Jacob (Israel) had been speaking with and about. Jesus was, and is, that redeeming angel (messenger) sent from God the Father. A similar passage referring to Jesus as a redeeming angel is in Isaiah:

Isa 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.
Isa 63:8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.
Isa 63:9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

In Daniel, when the three Hebrew boys were cast into the fiery furnace for not bowing down to the golden statue, not three but four figures were seen in the furnace:

Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Now most Christians would agree that this was indeed Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who walked with them in the furnace, in a pre-incarnation appearance. Yet, verse 28, interestingly enough, describes the fourth figure as an angel:

Dan 3:28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his *angel*, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

The Angel of the Covenant

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

The messenger of the covenant spoken of here in Malachi is clearly a reference to Jesus Christ, and His first and second coming. The word translated as messenger in Mal 3:1 is the same word [H4397, mal'ak] used in the previous passages of the old testament where we saw the phrase angel of the Lord. So this would also be a proper translation:

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the angel of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

In fact, this is how the Catholic Douay Rheims Bible translates this verse:

CHAPTER 3.

Christ shall come to his temple, and purify the priesthood. They that continue in their evil ways shall be punished: but true penitents shall receive a blessing.

Mal 3:1 Behold* I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple. Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts.

* Matt. 11:10; Mark 1:2; Luke 1:17; and 7:27.

The first angel or messenger mentioned in the verse alludes to John the Baptist, who preceded Jesus Christ and prepared the way for Him, but the angel of the testament / covenant who comes to His temple is clearly Jesus Christ. So Jesus is described in scripture as the *angel or messenger of the covenant*. That covenant likely being the one made to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15, that a redeemer would come to rescue a fallen humanity, or in addition, as we have previously noted, it was Jesus who appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai in the burning bush, and He also gave the Ten Commandments to Moses on tables of stone, which were placed in the container known as the ark of the covenant.

Therefore, in Malachi both John the Baptist and Jesus Christ are referred to as angels, or messengers, in the broadest sense of the meaning of the word. An angel in scripture can simply be a messenger, without meaning the created heavenly winged-being that most associate with the term. This is the key point to be made, Jesus can be referred to as an angel (messenger) without detracting from His deity in any way at all.

The apostle Paul also refers to himself as an angel, meaning messenger:

Gal 4:12 (KJV) 12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
Gal 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
Gal 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

So now, what of Michael the archangel? Is it so difficult to believe that he may actually be Jesus Christ? Let's look at each instance he is mentioned in the Bible and see-

ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #1

1 Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the *archangel*, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Who raises the dead with His voice? Not a created angel, indeed not even a created archangel. The shout is given with the voice of the *archangel*, the LORD Jesus Christ Himself:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

It is the voice of Jesus Christ (the Son of man) that raises the dead. Just as 1 Th 4:16 says, the Lord Jesus shall descend from heaven and shout with the voice of the Archangel, because He is the Archangel. With that shout, the righteous dead will be raised from their graves!

ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #2

Jude 1:9 Yet *Michael the archangel*, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

This verse is a virtual duplicate of another Old Testament event-

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the *angel of the LORD*, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

In both Jude 9 and Zech 3:1-2 it is Jesus, the *angel of the LORD* who is also *Michael the archangel*, contending with Satan for both Moses and Joshua.

ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #3

Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, *Michael*, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia

The prince of the kingdom of Persia is a reference to Satan, and Michael refers again to Jesus. It is the created angel Gabriel that is speaking with Daniel (See Dan 8:16, 9:21). The reference to Michael as one of the chief princes probably alludes to the Trinity, with Jesus being one part of the triune Godhead.

ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #4

Dan 10:21 But I will show thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Gabriel says that only he and Michael know certain truths which Gabriel will reveal to Daniel. Who could this Michael be but Jesus, God Himself, giving Gabriel the truths to reveal to Daniel?

ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #5

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Michael standing up is a reference to the second coming of Jesus at the end of time when He delivers His people, those listed in the Lamb's book of life, to include resurrecting those that sleep in the dust to everlasting life.

Some might propose that, in these three preceding texts from Daniel, the description of Michael as a mere prince is inappropriate for Jesus, so it must be speaking of a created angel. Note the following verses:

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

ARCHANGEL / MICHAEL TEXT #6

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, ...

Who leads the angelic host of heaven, who is their captain?

Josh 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
Josh 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as *captain of the host* of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Josh 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

Notice that Joshua worshipped the *captain of the Host*? If this were a mere angel, then the angel would have protested Joshua worshipping him, just as the angel protested John the Revelator worshipping him (Rev 22:8-9). So Joshua met with God (Jesus Christ) the *captain of the Host*. That is why he stood on holy ground and was asked to remove his shoes (just like Moses was asked in Exo 3:5 and Acts 7:33). Therefore, in Rev 12:7 you have Satan and his angels, and Jesus (Michael, the *captain of the Host*) and His angels - this was the war that began in heaven and continues today.

And what does the name Michael mean? It means *who (is) like God?* A very good question indeed - who is like Jesus?

As this study shows, according to scriptures, Jesus is the angel of the LORD, the angel of God, the angel of the covenant, the Archangel Michael, who appeared time and again in the Old Testament to speak directly to His people. Michael is just another title for the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, the principle messenger of the gospel (archangel) to humanity, but He is not a created being.

http://biblelight.net/michael.htm

Memory Verse:
(Jesus prayed) “I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” (John 17:4,5)


John 6:38-40

For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

The first verse suggests that Jesus came down from Heaven. This seems to contradict the belief that he first existed as a man when he was born into this world. For if Jesus was first conceived through Mary and had no pre-existance, how could he come down from Heaven. We (Man) come into existence when we are born into this world, but would it be correct to say that we came down from Heaven? If a verse said that we came down from Heaven, would you think that we pre-existed in Heaven?

John 1:15
15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' "

John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is physically impossible for Christ to be before him. Surely this verse shows preexistence, at least before John the Baptist.

Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

&

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

These 2 verses you just read blatantly say that he is before all things.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


So there is nothing that was made that didn't involve Jesus/The Word being there. This verse alone answers your question because the universe, angels and men were made and Jesus was present when they were created.

John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"


Jesus claimed to exist before Abraham. The words I am mean I exist. So Jesus existed before Abraham.

Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Here we see that Jesus is the offspring of David, yet he is also the root of David, which at appears to show existance before King David.

Luke 10:18
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Compare Luke 10:18 with Revelation 12:1-10 and it appears that Satan and his angels fell to the earth before the birth of Christ as a man. Now we know that Jesus was the Word and was with God in the beginning.

Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."

Micah 5:2 talks about someone who will rule Israel and who's origin is from ancient times. Who but Jesus could fit that description?

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[ 1:14 Or the Only Begotten] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So Jesus was with God in the beginning. We also know from certain scriptures that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and it is assumed that Jesus gave the Law. We are also told in Acts:7:30-39 that an Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses through whom God spoke and this is the same Angel who spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai and passed on the living words (The Law) to Moses.


30 "After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai.
31 When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice:
32 'I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.'Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.
33 "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground.
34 I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.'
35 "This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, 'Who made you ruler and judge?' He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
36 He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the desert.
37 "This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'
38 He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
39 "But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt.

So is the Angel of the Lord, Christ? Well it seems possible but I cannot be sure. Perhaps the correct model to look at is the one mentioned in Revelation 1:1

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Here we can see that the order of the Revelation started with the Originator which is God. He then passed it to Jesus Christ who sent it to his Angel and then to John. So perhaps it is possible that the Angel mentioned is the same Angel mentioned in Acts:7:30-39. Either way it still suggests that Jesus Christ existed at the time of Moses and that is the point I wish to bring out for now..

Moving on we read the following in Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Verse 2 is talking about the son and it says that God made the universe through him, (in the context of him being a son). The word universe in this scripture means Age.

aion {ahee-ohn'}
1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age

We even use the word 'aion' (eon or aeon) in English to refer to Age. So if we read the last part of this verse as AGE, we get the following: appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the age.

John 3:17
For God did not send (apostello) his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

apostello {ap-os-tel'-lo}
1) to order (one) to go to a place appointed
2) to send away, dismiss
2a) to allow one to depart, that he may be in a state of liberty
2b) to order one to depart, send off
2c) to drive away

To be sent surely implies existence otherwise you would just say born. In fact this word (sent) is similar in meaning and sound to the word Apostle (apostolos), which means "one sent forth with orders".

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Surely the above verses assumes preexistence Another look at verse 7: but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. This verse points out that Jesus humbled himself to become a (or like a) human and also a servant. So this suggests to us that he preexisted in a higher state because to humble oneself is to become lower. If he started life in this humbled state, then it would be incorrect to say that he humbled himself.

This verse is often used in support of the trinity doctrine because of the word 'equal'. But if you are equal to something it means that you are not that thing, rather you are like that thing. This scripture is also very clear about the following: The Father is God and Jesus is Lord and that God exalted Jesus to the highest place.

A closer look at verse 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Now I am not sure if Jesus was exalted higher than he was before he came to this world or whether he was exalted to the exact position that he had before. But if we look at John 17:5 again we can see that Jesus asked to return to his former glory.

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

The above verse is clear about Christ's pre-existence in glory before the world began. The next verse also confirms that Jesus pre-existed in Heaven.

John 3:12-15
[b]12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man.
[/b]14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

Ezekiel 8:1-3
1 In the sixth year, in the sixth month on the fifth day, while I was sitting in my house and the elders of Judah were sitting before me, the hand of the Sovereign LORD came upon me there.
2 I looked, and I saw a figure like that of a man. From what appeared to be his waist down he was like fire, and from there up his appearance was as bright as glowing metal.
3 He stretched out what looked like a hand and took me by the hair of my head. The Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and in visions of God he took me to Jerusalem, to the entrance to the north gate of the inner court, where the idol that provokes to jealousy stood.

This verse is interesting in the sense that the description is very similar to the description of Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:12-18,

12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,
13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.
14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire.
15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.
16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Have a look at the next verse. 1 Corinthians 11:3 (English-NIV)
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Now the word head in the Greek is 'kephale' which can mean head, source or master. Now if we notice the order in a time sense, we have to admit that God is the first as he is the only one who has existed for all eternity with no beginning. We also know from scripture that the man came first and the woman came from the man. So that part is correct if we use a timeline. That just leaves Christ. Did he come between God and Man. I think so, as I believe that all things came from him and this opinion does fit perfectly into this model in a time sense at least. Anyway the word Christ here is 'Christos' which means "anointed". So the anointed is the head of Man.
God > Christ > Man > Woman

If God created all things for his Son and his Son was the channel for that creation to come into being, then we can only assume that Christ existed at this point. As Genesis says: Let us make Man in our image. God was talking to Christ at this point and we know that Christ is the image of God and we are the image of Christ. Therefore the image of the image of God (man) is still the image of God. But Christ is the original and first image and we can only assume again that that image existed before the image of the image. A bit like a mirror that reflects a mirror, the original mirror has to exist in order to reflect the second mirror.

So we know that Christ preexisted before creation and now we will look at some more scriptures that show that he was born before creation itself?

Colossians 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

The above verse is quite clear that ALL things were created by or through Jesus.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

So again, there is nothing that was made that didn't involve Jesus/The Word being there. Only the Father and Son were not made. God has always existed and the Son was born from God before the creation of the universe, before anything was made. The next verse describes clearly who/what was the first of God's works.

Proverbs 8:22-30
22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, {[22] Or ; or } {[22] Or ; or } before his deeds of old;
23 I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence,

This verse is talking about Wisdom, whom many believe is Christ. This scriptures compliments other scriptures that that teach that Jesus was given birth by God and then created all THINGS though him.

So from this verse we can see the following points.

Wisdom was brought forth as the first of Gods works.
Wisdom was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.
Wisdom was given birth before creation.
Wisdom was the craftsman at his side and rejoiced in his presence before creation.
Some say that Wisdom isn't Christ, rather this is just wisdom in a conceptual sense and it is true that wisdom is being spoken of in that way. But from verse 22 onward it changes tempo. With terms like I was given birth, I was the craftsman at his side and I was filled with delight, we have to admit that it seems to be talking about a person. Now have a look at the following verses:

1 Corinthians 1:24 (English-NIV)
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (English-NIV)
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God–that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Lets look at some other concepts that Jesus personifies:

Jesus is the Truth. Yet truth is also a concept.
Jesus is the Way. Yet the way is also a concept.
Jesus is the Life. Yet life can also be a concept.
Now look at the following mystery:

1 Corinthians 2:6-9
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"

Ephesians 3:8-10
8 Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,

Perhaps another scripture alluding to Jesus being the Wisdom of God.

Finally I leave you with the following OT scripture that suggests that God had a Son before the birth Of Jesus Christ on earth.

Proverbs 30:4
Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!

Debeloved87: Wow this post has been intriguing...but before i forget i will like billionaire to help me with any article relating to Jesus 13-30 years i like reading such. I myself have experience most of this aforementioned things, like moving at the speed of thought, flying into the space, walking through walls, seeing and talking with some strange people in the white countries while am here in naija, but apart from all these they are greater things that i experience with myself such as seeing myself as a giant, bringing out fire from my hand, moving and flying things in the air with ordinary hand using my eyes to lift huge rocks and lots that i can't begin to say here, strange teachings and letterings, these actually gets me bewildered, when am back to my physical body, in which of the D's are these happening, i can recall someone said they are up to 10D's, or what can you say to that

You don dey madt o. I hope say no be you blow the window of my room which shoryuken?

Dipwater:

Interpretation: santa maria(santa claus sister) dash me moi moi interesting or interesting moi moi

U think say we no sabi spanish abi?




@ billy I dey feel u like my babe yan/ch ,fire on brotha ,ur lecture make sense

Stop talkin rubbish, i meant: st mary! this friend of ours is a very interesting one (to put it in a bambastic way)

Billyonaire:
-You cant measure the size of something you are a part of. It is inconceivable the measure the totality of all energy that there is in all multiverses.
-Yes, its the next plane of existence after the physical realm
-Yes the abilities were not inherited, It is a common practice and you can do it, no candles, no incense, nothing, but focus and clearing your mind of all thoughts and meditating on anything. The key is to keep the mind blank.
-I am a Christian, was born a Christian, baptized, ordained an elder but I needed to know the meaning of life and where I will go after I die.
-My sources are correct and I am yet to find someone who can dispute them cos I have search through blogs and read scientific journals, advance physics, astrology, astronomy, cosmotology and all what I experience are always in consonance with my experiences. The only complications I had was that I never knew what God was until recently, I was atheist for years and all my close friends till now still believe am atheist, but I can only say that what we call God is bigger than we ascribe him. GOD as I call it, is mind bugling, we cant even talk about it, the spirit of all and the power of one, and the goodnews is we are one with GOD. We are a part of IT.

Thanks for your reply. Do you understand what it means to be psychic? I know that all humans that have souls (not all humans by the way), have the potential to be psychic in nature. But there are some sets of people who are termed psychics (for good reasons too).
This is what i meant by paranormal, but i suspect you catch on. You described the psychic centering technique earlier as a way to enter the astral plane?

So back to my question, what do you understand by being a psychic - are psychics born with the gift or preselected or anyone can learn to be a psychic by studying the techniques?
By psychics, i am talking of ESPs and precognitive abilities here. And if so, can all psychics/anyone just open the portal into the astral realm at will by using the prescribed techniques?

Trollin. . .

*Clears my throat* err you meant the pastorpreneurs?

@op, why dont you find out for us and tell us about it?

Billyonaire: Physical body has limited organs which means limited senses. Limited senses means limited capabilities. As soul, we do not need eyes to see, we do not need ears to hear and we do not need skin to feel and beyond this, there other capabilites in soul that many people will not experience till death except those who have OBE. 3rd Dimension is our limit as physical beings but as soul and spirit, its a world of multiple dimensions. A world you can hear thoughts of others. Its extra ordinary. Experience yourself as soul and you will become aware of the purpose of life, without this experience, life has no meaning!

So you have experienced this other world then? For your life to have meaning.

So in the second death, the souls of the wicked will cease to exist completely? Utter destruction eh?
Na case closed be that o.

Mark 9:47,48
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,
where "'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'

Frosbel, what do you think He was talking about here? Parables eh?

Revelation 20:14

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Please frosbel, explain this scripture. Na which hell be that?

chukwudi44: Bunchh of deluded fools.[size=18pt]Even the useless op[/size] is more deluded than the the idiotic watch tower guys? Where on earth was Jesus described as an angel? Moronic human elements.

Heb 1:5 says he is far superior to angels so get a life retards

Na which asylum this one escape from?

true2god: U r just using ur JW tactics of attemptin to change topics anytime ur falsehood is laid bare. Na una wey, so im not surprised.

Those tactics wey don expire since due to overuse.

frosbel:


I have never inferred in any of my statements that I agree Jesus Christ is angel Michael.

He is not .

Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , the Messiah and Christ.

Let us respectfully disagree on this point.

That is as it may be. . .

BARRISTERS:

prove it frosbel, must we wait for a year for you to prove 1 plus 1 = 2?

prove your statement agaist what i ask you in the previous page here is it again answer it one by one,then we proceed;



how do you conclude that jesus is not an angel? and was jesus ever 'refered to as an angel, and a God in the bible?

He is in a state of CBB (Confusion break bones)

truthislight:

at this point i am weary of frosbel on this topic of him saying that christ never preexisted

it is not a must that he should accept all what the bible says and as such we and him cannot always see face to face on certain matters.

But then, every one have to face the decisions he had taken.

At this point we should not pay much attention to personal opinion/words of mouth of individuals.

He is not just agreeing not because of no bible evidence but because he has not gotten a "revelation" in the spirit that it is what the bible teach, afteral, atheist also need a "revelation" from God to believe that God exist.
^^^
it is a personal thing, i thing we should not bother here with him.

He is having double-mind here, he has belief in the bible, but there is something else clouding his judgement. That is his x-factor, but never mind.

So, with the exception of frosbel (whom we have decided to exempt since he does not really believe in scriptures), anyone else in disagreement?