₦airaland Forum

butterflyl1on:
Is God earthly? Check the definition of selflessness and selfishness

Pleasing others often comes at a cost to you as a person. It is not always pleasant or pleasurable but when we still go ahead and please others despite these uncomfortable position then are we selfless.

The definition of selflessness does not say you do not consider yourself what it says is that YOU CONSIDER OTHERS ABOVE YOURS. This means when compared, you often CHOOSE others above yours. Get it now?

if you were to consider others above yourself, that means that you are not considering yourself. If you help people in need not because you empathize with them only but because you empathise and obey God. The n empathising to obey God and helping gets done out of a selfish reason i.e to obey God

butterflyl1on:
You know that isn't possible. The only way you can be on the same page of a certainty is if you have ABSOLUTE CONTROL of her thoughts so can stop her from thinking in certain ways even without her knowledge.

Let's leave this alone with me and the lady planning on having sex in the foreseeable future ehn?

DeSepiero:
Aren't you guys arguing partly from a faulty premise that 'religion', is this case Christianity is the opposite of 'Atheism'?

Well, I understand that Atheism is a stance, just like Theism.

cc. butterflyl1on , pesty100

what's up with these insectivorous names

Elucidate

Lol a pest and a butterfly?

butterflyl1on:
I hope you know that some ladies engage in sex for sake of procreation.

That's the problem of those ladies. I will at least make sure that am on the same page with my lady

butterflyl1on:
Is God earthly? Check the definition of selflessness and selfishness

Pleasing others often comes at a cost to you as a person. It is not always pleasant or pleasurable but when we still go ahead and please others despite these uncomfortable position then are we selfless.

The definition of selflessness does not say you do not consider yourself what it says is that YOU CONSIDER OTHERS ABOVE YOURS. This means when compared, you often CHOOSE others above yours. Get it now?

God isn't earthly and you know this because the Bible says so. You please other people to please God to please your self. Please don't start twisting the definition of selflessness.

butterflyl1on:
You can only speak for yourself and not for the other party who tangos with you?

Other party? I hope you know that humans don't engage in sex only for procreation

butterflyl1on:
What evidence have you gotten to declare there is no god? I asked you if you are omniscient? Have you been everywhere known and unknown to arrive at this position.

Evidence in this case is meant to be sought and gotten by you. So how has your omniscience been able to arrive at such a conclussion when you are clearly limited as a human as you have kept repeating?

I have seen no objective evidence for the existence of a God that's enough for me.

butterflyl1on:
My worldview is meant to please God who isn't earthly but man who is earthly is the one to physically reap the produce. (do you get it now?)

My desire to please others is what is known as selflessness . If I had said I desire to please myself then I would be selfish.

I hope you have not forgotten the definition of selflessness and selfishness

selflessness
noun
concern more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own.

selfishness
noun
the quality or state of being selfish; lack of consideration for other people.

Which of these two definitions matches my comment below




Can you see selfishness in the above quote? Compare it with both definitions and correct your error.

Does it pleases you to please God?
Would you be unplease if you didn't please God?

butterflyl1on:
Hope is a reality. It's an inbuilt mechanism in all beings. It's not a deliberate construct of ours. we have nothing to do about it. IT JUST IS! it can be magnified or lessened but nevertheless, IT IS!

so if you somehow got someone pregnant you would immediately seek for an abortion since you do not want to take this risk.

I would make sure that I don't impregnate anyone

butterflyl1on:
You are saying two conflicting things.

You say LIFE IS VALUABLE yet you say you would not hesitate to end it all if it becomes unbearable

This means life indeed isn't valuable to you. It's not it's limited nature that makes it valuable and if indeed this limitation makes it valuable why then do you see only pain, selfishness and suicide in it?

Is taking life more valuable than keeping life? You just said taking life (suicide) is more valuable than life itself (under certain conditions).

My worldview says that there is no condition that should be more valuable than life. Suicide is never an option even when all is seemingly unbearable.

You are still declaring the hopelessness in atheism for all to see

Sciencewatch, kingebukasblog, felixomor you need to read this with me o. My eyes have seen my ears.

How is life being valuable in conflict with ending life when it's too painful??

When have i said that the only thing I find in life is pain and selfishness? I merely acknowledged the existence of both. Am not saying in essence that only pain and selfishness exist. I acknowledge that pleasure and self fulfillment exists also.

Are you saying someone under really excruciating pain should be allowed to stay alive to feel excruciating pain when they have consented to death even when we know that their situation is terminal?

butterflyl1on:
Your entire comments on this thread about what your worldview perceives about the world is all bleak and colourless. (maybe you should go through all your comments again and assess them) this makes your worldview a hopeless one QED.

You are a lazy and selfish atheist and it's no insult. After all your worldview declared that your world is full of the same.

Why do you foresee cancer and amputations on behalf of someone who hasn't been born yet? What is the ratio of people with limb amputations and cancer in the world compared to the population of the entire world? Are you an amputee? Do you have cancer? Did anybody in your family die from it?

To be honest your excuses are ridiculous and anyone reading this would see it.

How has my worldveiw declared that atheists are selfish and lazy people?

If viewing the world objectivity and in a realistic fashion leads it to being bleak and colourless. How is it the fault of atheism?

butterflyl1on:
Your entire comments on this thread about what your worldview perceives about the world is all bleak and colourless. (maybe you should go through all your comments again and assess them) this makes your worldview a hopeless one QED.

You are a lazy and selfish atheist and it's no insult. After all your worldview declared that your world is full of the same.

Why do you foresee cancer and amputations on behalf of someone who hasn't been born yet? What is the ratio of people with limb amputations and cancer in the world compared to the population of the entire world? Are you an amputee? Do you have cancer? Did anybody in your family die from it?

To be honest your excuses are ridiculous and anyone reading this would see it.

Hope is an human construct, it's existence is based on the human who feels its existence.

No i don't forsee great pain for my potential offspring am not just willing to take that bet on their behalf. And I'd appreciated it if someone didn't take that bet on my behalf.

butterflyl1on:
If you say NO GODS EXIST, How do you know this? Have you seen all and been everywhere both on earth and beyond to know this? Have you tasted death to know that there is nothing beyond it?

Please explain this omniscient ability you exclusively own to me.

There is no objective evidence to support the existence of a God. In the absence of objective evidence i hold firm

butterflyl1on:
Damn right I chose my job purpose, I can choose my wife (that's another purpose). I can choose my car or kind of apartment (that's another purpose) but here lies the difference between you and I. I do not choose these various purposes for selfish reasons. I choose them for sake of helping in my own way to make this world a much better place, to help someone, to bring joy to someone and to use it to preach my Jesus who is the catalyst for all hope, joy, faith, love, peace, kindness, goodness etc which are all ways of seasoning this world which you claim is selfish, chaotic and full of pain.

Now between this worldview I have mentioned here and yours which do you logically think makes a hell of a lot more sense to a world you claim is messed up? Is it yours that has NO PURPOSE AND OFFERS NOTHING or mine which offers all of the above to your world of chaos, pain and selfishness?

If you choose your purpose based on belief how then is It selfless since you are doing it to satisfy your desire to please God? And not because you empathise with the plight of another person.
If you worldview as you claimed offer those to the world at the price of being untrue why then should I be obligated to believe a lie.

butterflyl1on:
Nobody is scared of worms or having their DEAD BODY eaten by them but here is my thing, why then do you see life as important (like you being and remaining alive) if at the end of the day you simply die and that's it for you and the worms have a buffet?

If this world is so terrible and so full of selfishness and chaos and pain as you believe why do you not simply take the easy way out and end it all? It shouldn't be so hard to do for someone like you should it?

I think the fact that our life is limited is what makes it valuable i.e we should make sure we live well, eat well,treat people fairly etc.

I am not against ending it all when one is unable to bear existence.

butterflyl1on:
I did not call YOU names. I called YOUR WORLDVIEW stupid. Note the difference.

Those who give birth already know it comes with a degree of pain. You would do well to interview as many women as you wish about this. Also why would accidents not produce pain when such pains help to aid areas attention is required.

You say this world is selfish and chaotic. Indeed it is and this you see because you hold a worldview which is devoid of hope as an atheist. But as the theist I am I have hope that it can and will get better. What others may go through, I or my kids would not go through same and even if we do, it would be on a much less degree.
You are still buttressing the hopelessness of atheism.

Emotions are controllable. Simply say you lack this self control mechanism. Speak for yourself and not for those who have mastered theirs.

There are people who have mastered control over anger, pain, hatred, etc. Or do you claim not to know this?

Care to illustrate what "STOP BEING A LAZY SELFISH ATHEIST!" means. I take offence at being called lazy and selfish.

How is the Excruciating pain someone with cancer that is terminal feels necessary? Or someone whose leg is cut off but still feels pain from the phantom limb necessary? For we human even though pain is necessary in some situations there are plenty of other situations where it's unnecessary and we still feel it. I don't want to bring a child into the world where the child might end up having to live with pain that's unnecessary.


My worldview isn't devoid of hope it's objective. Seeing things as they are doesn't necessarily mean that one is hopeless.

butterflyl1on:
How can you an atheist say theism offers nothing when I just enumerated what theism offers above when talking about your comment about alternatives. Let me post my comment again below




The above quote was authoritatively given by me as the theist I am and which you are not. I know the benefits since I have experienced and I am experiencing them.

Speaking to you as a Christian you should know that I am not holding brief for Islam so kindly focus on my version of theism and not another.

Also you and I have been able to establish that atheism has NO PURPOSE and OFFERS NOTHING. Those were your very words.

Theism isn't a stance. Theism is a lifestyle (allow me explain this)

Theism has standards and those standards have been set for her followers so they can live by them and become better people in character, love, kindness, goodness, peace, excellence in service, etc.

Atheism on the other hand has NO STANDARDS since as you put it, has no purpose and offers nothing. What has no purpose, has no direction, what has no direction has no standards, what has no standards, is a messed up, confused, and in a world where everyone wishes to be purpose driven, is simply an idiotic worldview to hold on to.

fact is theism is different from Christian theism.

Simply put you say yaweeh exist i say no Gods exists yaweeh included.

I think have already told that one's purpose is something we determine ourselves. Atheism doesn't determine purpose for anyone.

The funny thing is even you yourself choose your purpose in life be you a Christian theist. You always have the option of choosing.

butterflyl1on:
Let me refresh your memory with your own post.



You said atheism OFFERS AN ALTERNATIVE WAY OF VIEWING THE WORLD FREE OF RELIGIOUS DOGMAS.

now let me break it down to you since you fail to understand the import words carry.

Religion is a way of viewing the world which when adhered to produces results such as hope, faith, joy, love, goodness, kindness, etc

Now you said atheism is an ALTERNATIVE WAY of viewing the world free of the above.

You seem not to realise that what you simply said is that atheism is an alternative. When one thing offers something then an alternative is also meant to offer something which is meant to be better when compared to the other but here you are saying that this alternative view OFFERS NOTHING AND HAS NO PURPOSE.

very profound words which strike at the very heart of atheism and further declares that atheism is hopeless. How can anyone spend his years on something that has NO PURPOSE AND OFFERS NOTHING?

Care to explain?

Theism like atheism offer nothing except being a stance supporting the issue of a God.

Christian theism or Islamic theism offer their own versions of or that version of truth to produce faith, joy etc in believers.

When you say religion you automatically assume it Christianity but then Christianity isn't the only religion on earth.

Well if am mistaken I'd like to know what theism offers

butterflyl1on:
You failed to read and understand properly. I know we choose our own purpose which was why I directly asked him for his own purpose as an atheist outside his job since he said his comments are solely his personal opinion and atheism has no purpose and offers nothing and that we only live so we can become worm food. Can you show me where I suggested there was a preset purpose? Saying you beg to differ is simply you begging to support since I never said anything you differed with to begin with.

living to become worm food isn't necessary a bad thing. If you are scared of being eaten by worm when you die then as that you are cremated.

butterflyl1on:
Let's take it one by one shall we?

Pain: You seem to have a low pain threshold. Pain in itself is no curse and is a good thing. Pain let's you understand quicker same way hot and cold does. Having pleasure without pain isn't a good way of knowing good from bad. Pain works with our emotions and our physical responses and helps us understand life much better so if you as an atheist sees pain as a disadvantage then you need to be woken up with a cold bath.

Lack of control over feelings: who told you that you lack control over your feelings? The Lazy always run away from WORKING ON HAVING control. You can choose when to be sad even in the midst of sorrow. You can choose to laugh when others are crying and cry when others are laughing. YOU CAN HAVE CONTROL.

feelings are like a light switch to those who have mastered it. When it is moving to an area you do not want then you can switch it off. Of course as an atheist you wouldn't know this because you have no safety mechanism at work in you. As Christians we have the Holy Spirit who helps us with control over our emotions.

Inability to determine parenthood: Now this is a very selfish position. Before making such a statement you should first of all ask yourself if everyone the work over is the same. Is everyone EQUALLY rich, famous, smart, tall, short, handsome, beautiful, etc

Since this isn't the case but EVERYONE SHARES ONE THING be they unequally rich, handsome, beautiful, aetc and this is in the ability to procreate then you have no power to choose anything before you began to exist. In fact if you had such a power before birth, you would be too ignorant to know how to properly use it as selfishness would ONLY make you always choose to be born to either the rich or the most beautiful or the smartest but you can be born to a beautiful family that is poor, or a smart family that are dwarves, etc. Life has a way of balancing itself. This was deliberate but one thing is sure, regardless of the circumstances one is born into YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO RISE ABOVE IT. history is replete with such individuals who rose above their circumstances. STOP BEING A LAZY SELFISH ATHEIST!

If those are your reasons for saying you would rather not exist and by extension not desire kids, then I am sorry to say that those are some of the most stupid mind sets to have as they are dangerously warped and destructively ignorant.

First of all am not a fan of name calling, if you think you've got a point, make your case without resulting to calling me names.

Pain
Even though pain serves as a warning mechanism, it isn't necessary a good thing. The kind of pain am talking about here is really excruciating pain, the kind that might be caused by cancer or accident among other things. When one chooses to give birth it is not usually done with the knowledge of the above. How i feel about the issue is devoid of selfishness or laziness

On the issue of parenthood what you are saying is that we should have children because well life has a way of balancing itself? And we are able to procreate. Is that supposed to be reason enough to bring someone who we are supposed to love into this chaotic,selfish world. Whose stay might end up getting short and painful. Well its all probability and i am not taking that bet.

On lack of control over emotions
We human suffer from the illusion of having control over what we feel. ask those who are depressed or those suffering from one kind of addiction. They will always think they have control. Human emotions can never be likend to a light switch it's not just that simple. You say religion is like a safety mechanism, i think it's like alcohol.

ScienceWatch:
It is common knowledge that even a fool can say what is wrong. Corrupt scientist's feed a gullible public DARK MATTER and BLACKHOLES, are you able to verify if the crap is real or just more scientific superstitions?

Atheists love psuedo science because it is pure fantasy.

even though am not too well versed in physics the experts say that where and what the evidence leads us to believe. Should we disregard the evidence because of your personal inclination? Well I don't think we should.

ScienceWatch:
Your contradictions are offensive Pesty100. Superstitions and dogmas are well known in science. We must beware, first of all of becoming captive in dogmas implanted in your mind by others, especially science. You must beware of scientists who dupe themselves and deceive others with unscientific speculations which cannot prove themselves, which are wrapped in unnecessary mystery
such as; DARK MATTER.[/b] You must refuse to give uncritical credence to them.

[b]Jesus Christ on the other hand gave demonstrations of His character and power, saying,
"By their fruits ye shall know them." Scientists should use the same rule; if they cannot demonstrate their theories, they should discard them.

The acid test of all spiritual theories is in the laboratory of daily living. That is where you must test the claims to ascertain their value.

Thank God, that there are places all over the world where the cruel Atheists propaganda on so-called superstitions and dogmas are scientifically debunked.
Medical scientists themselves testify to that fact after they are healed from terminal illness that science fail to cure. The examples of scientific superstitions are many, it is dressed up in Pseudo scientific jargon to fool the gullible masses.

What are my Contradictions?
Science might not be able to determine what is right with 100% certainty. But it is able to determine what is wrong with 100% per centainty

butterflyl1on:
I never said atheism had dogmas all I asked is what the alternative aimed to achieve and what direction does it aim to lead as an alternative. (do you get it now?)

So you do not know what atheism has to offer humanity? Is that statement of yours not showing that I was right all along that atheism is hopeless? Is a blind guide leading the blind.

Since you personally do not know what atheism has to offer humanity WHAT THEN IS YOUR PERSONAL PURPOSE FOR BEING AN ATHEIST?

at least people become something or follow something for a reason. Are you following blindly? Your "I don't know" declaration says you are.

you said atheism is an alternative to religion and I had to put you straight. Atheism in itself has no dogmas hence no purpose , since it has no purpose and dogmas it offers nothing. It just a stance against religion, atheist on the other hand is another story.


Note:
ATHEISM ISN'T A RELIGION
ATHEISM HAS NO DOGAMAS
ATHEISM IS A STANCE

butterflyl1on:
Read Your Own comment again and see your hopelessness emphasised.

You said In truth (IN ALL HONESTY) you would rather not exist (IF IT WAS UP TO YOU TO DECIDE) based on this and now that you have such a worldview and have some control you can now decide not to bring children into this world because you believe your worldview is right. Am I wrong?

Why not try and list out the embargoes you claim man has and let's see how terrible they are to necessitate such a worldview.

In a nutshell you are a nihilist. An atheist who is a nihilist is a ticking time bomb.

now you are asking the right questions instead of assimilating quickly. The embargoes are listed thus:
*pain in all ramifications.
*the fact that we aren't always in control of what we feel.
*the fact that we don't don't determine our parents.

If not existing means we won't have to feel any of the above the so be it

butterflyl1on:
And I have repeatedly asked you what atheism has got to offer humanity in it's alternativeness and you have said nothing.

If it is an alternative to religious dogmas so where are it's benefits and values and on what are they entrenched?

it isn't an alternative to religious dogmas. Atheism has no dogmas. I don't know

butterflyl1on:
So what then is since you feel you hold a different reason. Let's see how much hope such a reason holds shall we?

Being an human though has its benefits comes with its own embargo, I'd rather not exist in truth so i see no reason why I should bring a child am suppose to love into consciousness with its embargoes.

Note: this is me repeating myself. Hope you didn't miss this with all your fast assimilation.

butterflyl1on:
I am very quick with assimilation alright and I do not read to read twice before Inger the picture and what I wrote is what you said.

Also you are yet to list out to me what atheism has to offer humanity.

maybe you are assimilating just a little bit too quickly. Have already stated that atheism offers an alternative way of viewing the world free of superstition and religious dogmas.

butterflyl1on:
You are still saying the same thing. You see life as simply here today and worm food tomorrow and that's the end of it which is why you see no reason for children. (in a nutshell you are hopeless so see no reason why you should pass this hopelessness to another through childbirth)

So what purpose outside work, eat, sleep have you created for yourself ever since you became an atheist

I would live to the fullest and engage in things that makes me happy and fulfilled.

butterflyl1on:
You are still saying the same thing. You see life as simply here today and worm food tomorrow and that's the end of it which is why you see no reason for children. (in a nutshell you are hopeless so see no reason why you should pass this hopelessness to another through childbirth)

So what purpose outside work, eat, sleep have you created for yourself ever since you became an atheist

that is definitely not the reason I see for not wanting children.

butterflyl1on:
You are still saying the same thing. You see life as simply here today and worm food tomorrow and that's the end of it which is why you see no reason for children. (in a nutshell you are hopeless so see no reason why you should pass this hopelessness to another through childbirth)

So what purpose outside work, eat, sleep have you created for yourself ever since you became an atheist

maybe you should cool down and read what I first wrote.

butterflyl1on:
What is your moral compass?

"what is a?" should be the question

[quote author=butterflyl1on post=64044394]the question of what is right and wrong is a question I don't think anyone has the right answer to all the time. When I was doing ethics in an organization 200lvl from the literatures I read the experts really couldn't come to a conclusion on what the right conduct should be all the time, and the advised that one should use a moral compass when making decisions. In conclusion what is right or wrong cannot be so all the time
One should be prepared to shift a little bit.