₦airaland Forum

Richirich713:
Trust me, all Trinitarians believe jesus can be send by his father as a messenger.

So why Say Jesus is Yahweh? Who send who? God send Jesus or God send Himself?

So jesus is a mighty god and the father is God Almighty
U know Isaiah also calls the father mighty god.

yet for us there is but one God, the Father , from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ , through whom all things came and through whom we

The bible always give distinction between the Father and the Son. Isaiah 9:6 called Jesus a mighty God.


For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Also u should start looking at the hebrew, cuz translating "El Shadda" as God Almighty is a poor translation. In hebrew it does not say that, in fact the hebrew to us might seem like an insult as our understanding is different to the ancient hebrews culture.

Names in hebrew also are very significant, look at what Yahweh means in hebrew.



'Woe to me!' I cried. 'I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the LORD Almighty.'


Here Isaiah says he saw Yahweh Almighty. But John says Isaiah saw Jesus.

Isn't this a problem to ur beliefs? And this is just one of the many verses where Yahweh is seen.

How is this a problem to my belief? Should i say the same thing to you? The bible says no man can See God and live. I showed you the scripture and you qouted another scripture contradicting the one i posted. How is that my problem? If we are to trust God when He told Moses that No one can see Him and live, we will admit that everyone who claim to have seen Yahweh in scriptures has infact, Saw Jesus. But not the Father of Jesus.

Trump Right About Legal Authority To Ban Muslim Immigrants
By Ben Swann
| December 12, 2015

There’s been so much debate over Donald Trump’s statement that the U.S. should ban all Muslims attempting to enter the country. We are going to look at one major question: is it lawful?


http://www.mintpressnews.com/trump-right-about-legal-authority-to-ban-muslim-immigrants/212004/

"Cameroon kills 100 Boko Haram fighters, frees 900 hostages

Yaounde: Cameroon troops killed around 100 Boko Haram Islamist fighters from Nigeria, freed almost 900 hostages and seized Islamic State (IS) flags last week, the defence ministry said on Wednesday.


http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/cameroon-kills-100-boko-haram-fighters-frees-900-hostages_1829515.html

maverickboy:
[s]

It's not about twisting but failing to acknowledge the reality. l'll implore you to get it clearly this time because I want to give it a rest already.

The fact that those christians used bible to justified their killings proved that they kill for their biblical God!

Jesus never fought simply because he was never in the situation to fight. Like other biblical messengers, he would have fought and killed if he was commanded to do so.

And something you and other christians failed to realise is that fighting is ordained when It's necessary. All of you believe God only decided to be cruel towards the people of the old testament and then, because of some reason he dropped his cruelty nature and became nice towards later generations.

I'm not surprised you can't see anything wrong with that because that's your stance. But do those people have different Creator/God that could have warranted them suffered such unjust cruel fate?

The fact is, Jesus was never different from those old testament prophets you think of as monsters. He could have done better but not worst if God that ordained fighting for other prophets did for him. So next time you think of Jesus think of Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon and others that fought and killed. Never discriminate between them because they only carried out their assignments as were ordered.

None of them is heartless monster as your bible portrayed them, they were actually the kindest and warmest people of their generations. God only punished who deserved it through them and what I believe is that there was a huge exaggeration in the narration of their actions. So don't be embarrassed to embrace them as the predecessors of your highly respected Jesus.

While Jesus didn't fight or kill, he left the likes of Deut. 13, 6 -10 which could be used to justify killing as legacy. And that among others was what those christians used as proofs for their loyalty to God of the bible. [/s]

All the prophets you named might have killed for one reasons or the other. But none of them died for Mankind. Only Jesus did. Thats the difference.

twosquare:
....The second person who is on the throne is Almighty God who is a man. He is God-Man...

The 2rd person on Throne is the Almighty. The first person (Father )is what then? By the way the bible says:


*God is not a man*, that he should lie; neither the *son of man*, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good

Jesus didnt lie but He said He was the Son of Man.

the first time Angels saw (including Michael) God wearing flesh and sitting on the throne. That He is Almighty doesn't mean He doesn't have a Father who gave Him the same glory...

Are you suggesting TWO Almighty in Heaven? If He has a Father is this Father not more than Him? Yhe fact that the Father GAVE Him the glory shows He didnt own it at first please put things properly. Thanks.

twosquare:
I crossed out two or more sentences in your understanding...Jesus is not an angel...the word 'angel'...aggelos....a messenger...just like the 'messenger of satan' who attacked Paul. You need the eyes of revelation to sight the tree in the scripture because therein lies the sword of that cherub meant to sway you hither and thither...he is not an archangel...if you're looking for one, go see Jeremiel, Uriel, Gabriel and co...there are many archangels sis. It is a position given by God to these spirits, and there is a position of Adonnai which Jesus now occupies....The second person who is on the throne is Almighty God who is a man. He is God-Man...the first time Angels saw (including Michael) God wearing flesh and sitting on the throne. That He is Almighty doesn't mean He doesn't have a Father who gave Him the same glory...

The error is that we still think with fallen minds and the mindset of the system of these world. Among the trinity, it's no competition among them....The Father, the GOD-Man (Son) and the Holy Spirit behave like children. Indeed, they are children because it's no competition among them...The responsibilities of saving mankind started with The Father, the Son came do His with the Apostles, now the Holy Spirit is now in our dispensation.....Angels were all involved and they're still involved because they are emissaries of the Kingdom meant to execute....An angel cannot occupy the position of Adonnai....if Jesus is an angel, He cannot be the saviour of mankind because it takes someone who is from the loins of the Father that can successfully pull it through.

I think i still need to teach you the order of Sonship. Jesus said what He said as a Son of Man (concerning your last statement), not as the Alpha and Omega...the way He talked in the gospels is different from the way He talked in Revelations (there is a reason for it). Please read Phillipians 2:6. That's why you need to understand the Epistles. The Epistles is a revelation of His Divinity. You need the spirit of might to see and sight it...That's why John took time to trace His genealogy, even past the angels who were not with God in the beginning...one of the beginnings John saw was the world of God where no angels have ever been...They don't even know they will come into existence (not even Michael, not Lucifer, not Gabriel etc.) It is the world of the Almight(ies), the world of those who have been in the beginning before He (F,S,H) even opened the portals of the sons of the morning....That was one of the questions Jehovah asked Job...Were you there when the morning sons sang their first song?......Michael was among those who sang that first song on that day, including Lucifer. Jesus wasn't created, neither is He a son of the morning. He is Almighty God who is part of the Father.....Michael is a Name, Lucifer is a Name....Gabriel is a Name and they are able to open portals/gates...but there is a Name that can close a door which no one can open and vice versa....Know your Lord.

Take a good look at the bible and tell me who the
(Angel of the LORD) is. First example, the story of Moses and the burning bush: Exo 3:2 And the (angel of the LORD) appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Now in verses 4 and 6 who is identified as being in the bush?

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Exo 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

You will agree with me that the Angel (messenger) of verse 2 is same person called God in verse 3&6. This is also confirmed in the N T:


Acts 7:30 And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an (angel of the Lord) in a flame of fire in a bush.
Acts 7:31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him.

We know the Angel of the Lord is not God Himself. The Angel of the Lord here is Jesus. No man can see God and Live.

Lets look at the story of Hagar Sarahs slave in Genesis.

Gen 16:7 And the (angel of the LORD) found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Gen 16:9 And the ("angel of the LORD) said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. 10 And the (angel of the LORD) said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the (angel of the LORD) said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD (Yahweh ) hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Hagar was visited and spoken to by the Angel of the Lord , but look who she says this *Angel* was:

Gen 16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?

Again the (Angel of the Lord) is actually none other than the LORD Jesus Christ Himself. And not Yahweh. Scripture interprets scriptures.

Richirich713:
I think it is very important for the Old testament clearly says there no other Rock but Yahweh.

Paul said the Rock was Christ NOT Yahweh.
And you read that Yahweh was the one who sent The angel. Yahweh did not send himself. And Yahweh is not an Angel. He is the creator. The Almighty God.

Richirich713:
Yes but I follow the original understanding of the term "angel " which simply means "messenger" or "one who walks for another". So when God sends his Word to his people I dnt have no problem.

Good you have no problem with that. Not all Trinitarians will accept this angel Is Christ himself.

Yet moses calls this person God.

Thats my point. This Angel is not just like Other angels. He plays a Role no other Angel can play. We read that He has the power not to Forgive thier transgressions. He bears Gods name in Him. Thats why He must be Jesus. And the Apostle Paul confirmed it as we have seen previously. Jesus is not the Almighty, But the mighty. At first, the Exodus account looks difficult to understand., It further says Moses saw God. But we know an angel is not God Almighty.

Studying with a open mind made me believe the bible teaches jesus is divine.

Why do u say no man can see God? Isaiah, Moses, Aaron and more saw God.

Well for one I believe the bible teaches he is God or more correctly divine and eternal.

And I also believe it teaches the father is God, yet the bible is clear there is one God and one Lord.

I never said Jesus is not divine. Far from that. All this prophets saw Jesus. God said it that no man can See him and live. God is not an author of confusion. He cant say no man can see me and live and later be seen by men who lived long.


But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.

John 5:37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”

(.”

twosquare:
I know what you are saying (in response to the other quote and this one). I don't just speak.... I know these beings... That Obama is one of the famous presidents in the world doesn't mean we don't have other famous presidents... Michael is an angel after the order of the 3rd heaven, same likewise Lucifer, who by the reason of treason was driven to the lowest realm. I don't just speak, I can teach you about them by the scriptures and revelation... I've had encounters with them, and I know much about their world, stratums and how it relates to the sonship of Jesus... There are many sectors in the spirit, and Michael is in charge of Warfare.... We have other cherubs who can handle satan very well, they are also princes like Lucifer. If I want to divulge some info... It can take months coz it takes might to grasp these things and understand them accurately. In Daniel, he was referred to as "one of the chief princes". In other words, this means there are other princes that are CHIEF among the angels... When discussing the world of the angels which is in three strata, know that they have tribes just like we in the earthly realm... In fact, the tribes of Israel was patterned after the heavenly. Lucifer is a son of God, Michael is a son of God, Adam is a son of God, Gabriel is a son of God, Jeremiel is a son of God, Raphael is a son of God.... They all I've mentioned are all princes of different pedigrees... Among all the trees (princes) that stood in Eden, Lucifer has an extremely colorful glory, even though he was not the highest. It takes an Adonnai to subject all things under his own feet... Michael can't do that coz he is an angel... Do you know who an Adonnai is? The controller... He who owns all things... That was the position Lucifer coveted and God said, "Who are you?" "I've never said to angels (including Michael) .. Sit at my right hand side..."

Princes are many.... But there is the Prince whom Michael himself loved and dread... It's demons that tremble... The work of Michael in the last days is to throw Lucifer from the realm which is close to the 1st heaven down to the earth and clean up that Adamic realm as the work of a commander. The reason people erred in this is because Michael was given the job to throw him and down and they thought only God (Jesus) can do that, that means he is the Lord... No, it even takes another Cherub to lock him up...When people actually know the power of the LORD JESUS, Satan will indeed be small. People don't know who the Lord is, but when they do, they will fear. A 33 year old man whose heaven will shift at His gaze.. That's Adonnai... He is not a Cherub (those who excel in strength- Michael, Uriel, Gabriel, Jeremiel et al), neither is He a Seraph, nor the stars of God who inhabits the 1st realm..... I will be back to explain some things.

You have had encounters with the Heavenly beings? Ummm...are you an alien. (joking)

Well, i dit not asked that you teach me about them anyway. Thanks for proposing. I am for the point that Jesus is not the Almighty God. Bible has proved He has always been on services to his Father right from the OT till the NT. He has a Father. And the Apostle Paul interpreted the OT for us by telling us Jesus was that Angel that Followed the Israelites. Scription interprets scripture. Jesus is the Son of God. The prince of Peace. The chief Priest among priests, Patriarch among the patriarchs, Law in the law, King among the kings, Archangel among the Angels. He is the Lord of Host. Prophet among prophets .The list is without end...With all this proves from the bible. We still call Him God. While He said there is only one true God. The Almighty God. The one that sent him to Earth. He said His God is my God. His father is my Father.

Richirich713:
They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. (1 Corinthians 10:4 )

Look what the old testament has to say about the Rock.

"He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God, who does no wrong, upright and just is he." Deuteronomy 32:4

"Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior." Deuteronomy 32:15

"You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth." Deuteronomy 32:18

"How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede." Deuteronomy 32:30-31

Also :

"Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one. Isaiah 44:8

The issue is not about the Rock. The issue is about Paul calling the Angel Christ.

Richirich713:
Jesus. He was the Rock they followed.

Now you agree He is the Angel God sent with them? Because it was thesame event Paul was illustrating when He concluded that Rock was "CHRIST "

Exodus 23:20-23 Behold, I (God) send an Angel(Jesus ) before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

Paul knew God sent An Angel with them. And He told us He was Christ. Viewing many events of Exodus. Jesus was always sent by God As the Angel of the Lord. Even in the burning bush. It was not God whom no man can see and live that appeared to Moses but an Angel.

"And the Angel of God spake to Moses, in a flame of fire out of the bush, and said, I am that I am, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, the God of thy fathers; go down into Egypt, and bring forth My people."

It is important to study the bible with open mind not bias. If no man Can see God and live. How can we say Jesus who was always on mission for his Father is God.

twosquare:
Michael is one of the angelic princes in the angelic tribes. There are many princes dear. He is one out of many.... Even the wicked spirit over the realm of Persia is a prince. No wonder he was able to withstand another prince coming to deliver an important seal concerning the end. It takes a prince to fight princes. Royalty fights another royal line. There's another prince over the realm of Greece. These are princes and that should show to you that those we are warring against are princes (reason why we shouldn't joke with Christianity). The one who even make life miserable for Paul was one. Jesus was referred to as a prince of peace when He came as a son of man, but when He resurrected, He is not just a Prince but Lord of all angels, everything that's created and yet to manifest, even in the world to come.

Michael is a price. HE will be the one to fight Satan. Like u said, "it takes a PRINCE TO FIGHT A PRINCE " according to the bible; Satan is the Prince of darkness while Jesus is the Prince of Peace. And we know that It is Michael who will fight Satan. Try and follow the link i gave you. You will be glad you did even if you are not agree.

twosquare:
Like Malvisguy212 said, the name of that angel was not mentioned, but I can tell you that it's a Cherubim of Glory who acted in God's stead. He was given the power of attorney, to do what Yahweh would have done... He is to act out that name to the Isra of God. If Moses missed an instruction, he would have dealt with him even unto death coz such angelic order when carrying out dangerous assignment like leading the isra-el out of Egypt don't know what's called 'pardon'. A similar case is the Angel who appeared unto John in Revelations that have the likeness of the Lord.... "mine angel".... These beings have the codings to act in stead of the Lord they serve. Like I said some times back, one Cherubim of glory is enough for the whole of Nigeria.... There are some that can handle the whole of Africa combined.... A seraphim may not be able to do that... That's why when an assignment that connotes the matter of a nation /the Kingdom of God, Cherubs are called upon to handle such case.

I do not want to start over again this question of who Archangel Michael is was already treated in this thread.
Please try and follow it till end if you can. It will help you to understand who the angel is. And the role of Christ and Michael. It a long one. But interesting one too. Happy read.


https://www.nairaland.com/1103279/michael-archangel-really-jesus-revelation

Richirich713:
"I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, AND THE ROCK was Christ. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did. Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, ‘The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.’ We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day. We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents, nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer. Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come." 1 Corinthians 10:1-11, 14-22

Who did the Apostle Paul told us followed the chidren of Israel all through in the wilderness?

malvisguy212:
the bible does not specifically mention the name of the Angel, but one thing for sure the angel was to be guidance to the isrealite living at that time and NOT the whole world. Angels do not accept worship but Jesus accept. What does that tell you? Anyway thank you for your time.

Yes in the OT the name of the angel was not mentioned. But in the NT, the apostle Paul told us that it was Christ.
This angel beras Gods name. Has right not to pardon. Was thier protector and they must listen to his voice..etc i believe the bible interprets itself.

maverickboy:
May be if you read their stories you will know who/what they fought for for yourself. What the world knows and history bears is that they killed for their respective ideologies... and that goes a long way.

Isil and others kill christians and muslims alike just like those christians killed muslims and christians during their reign, It's not new thing and no prophecy is fulfilled through that. I suppose prophecy is fulfilled at a time and other times it's mere 'reoccurrence' and no longer 'fulfilment'. No?

And you just saw boko et al quoting Quran and you're convinced with no further rumination that what they were reading justifies their actions. But if I quote any violence verse from the bible, however damn it may be, you'll seek to explain it. No? Double standard is no fair play!

As for your last statement, it's plain fallacy! The matter in question is not what you can wish away so cheaply. Not as much as you hold others ransom for similar matter.

The fact that they use the quran is a prove that they kill for thier God. They call on him when killing. The bitter truth is that They are doing what Muhammad did during his time. Christ didnt fight or kill. Anyone who follows him do like him. Thats my point. Here in the West, you see teens smoke cigarette. They smoke Because thier parents smoker. How can a smoking parent correct thier children from smoking when they are also guilty of same crime? This is the position of allahs armies. All they are doing today is a footstep of Muhammad. You cant twist it.

Four guys'
A security guard at the United Nations in Geneva told Reuters that Swiss authorities were searching for "four guys" believed to be in the area. UN security guards were stationed with MP5 sub-machine guns at entry points for cars, a highly unusual measure at the sprawling complex.
In a statement released on Thursday afternoon the Geneva public prosecutor's office said it had opened a criminal investigation into the preparation of illegal acts. This provision targets "anyone who takes steps, technical or organisational, to commit a serious crime", it declared.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/breaking-news_paris-attack-suspects--search-underway-in-geneva/41830976


Wake of Paris attacks
Shooting and bomb attacks claimed by Islamic State killed 130 people in Paris on November 13. Police in several European countries are still searching for individuals believed to have been involved in the attacks or in their planning.

mamsong9:
Are you kidding me?

Answer please !