LisaAnneMia:
It's still the grace gospel that even when Adam and Eve sinned, God still clothed them.
It's the grace gospel that before the law was given, Joseph knew that adultery was a sin and fled from that lady cos it is recorded there that the Lord was with Him
It's the grace gospel that even before the law was given, Abraham was referred to as a friend of God. That Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.
It's the grace gospel that after God brought the Israelites from Egypt, even after they complained and complained (complaining is sin), God showed them His goodness. The more they complained, the more He provided. But when the law was given, the very first commandment that they must have no other God, they broke it. They created a golden calf.
After the law was given, whenever they complained they died. The complain they did before the law that brought God's goodness, brought death this time around. Why? Cos before the law, God blessed them based on His goodness not theirs.

It's still this gospel of grace that when God commanded the children of Israel to kill an animal and put the blood on their doorposts, that none of the first born sons died. Were they perfect? No! Were they blameless? No! Then why? Cos God is good.

Now let's go to the new testament. It's still this same gospel of grace that when Jesus wanted to heal those who came to Him, did He say "all who didn't shout at their wives, line up here", "all who obeyed all the commandments, line here, I'll answer you guys first", "all who is without sin, I'll answer you guys too, the rest, please keep all my commandments then I'll heal you"? No! The woman with the issue of blood broke the law! She was unclean! According to the law, she wasn't supposed to be out there! But she heard the goodness of Jesus and her faith grew to receive her healing! Was she good? No! She broke the law! What now happened? She depended on the goodness of Jesus!

Let's fast forward to Luke. It's still the same grace that when the rich ruler came to Jesus and boasted in his law keeping that Jesus said "one thing you lack". On the other hand, the short tax collector, in the next chapter, Jesus went to his house. Now did Jesus say "you have been a very bad boy! Do this and do that before you enter my kingdom"? No! Jesus gave him no law and the guy gave almost all he had before Jesus left.

And lastly! The thief at the cross! It's still this same grace gospel that Jesus didn't say "before I remember u in my kingdom, do this and say that or confess all your sins before you die, then I will remember you"! No! And it's this gospel of grace that Peter denied Jesus three times!!! After Jesus said "whoever denies Me before men, I'll deny him before My Father"...and yet, when Jesus rose from the dead, He said "go tell My disciples and Peter"... purposely called out Peter's name. Shouldn't Peter be burning in hell since he denied Jesus? No!

What am I saying in essence? True repentance comes after seeing the goodness of God in your life. When Jesus told Peter to cast his net into the sea and Peter caught so many fish, he said "depart from me I'm a sinful man". Which one came first? Jesus' goodness or Peter's repentance? In all the miracles Jesus did, which one came first? Jesus goodness or their repentance? Do I support sin? No! Am I encouraging sin? No! I'm only saying let the Lord Himself right His laws in people's hearts. The preaching on the Commandments hasn't helped the Christian world till now. Let the grace of God teach people what to do. You can't know Jesus mind. Peter should be in hell when he denied Jesus.

"Humans have a part to play" has caused so many heart aches with people wondering if God is pleased with them. When you have a relationship with Jesus, He'll prompt you through His Spirit in you to do this and do that, or to say this and to say that. DON'T WORRY ABOUT YOUR DOING! FOCUS ON WHAT JESUS DID AT THE CROSS FOR YOU, AND YOUR DOING WILL FLOW EFFORTLESSLY!

Kobojunkie:
Grace In Jesus Christ refers to Eternal life - given instead of Death.

Adam didn't have eternal life(grace) through Jesus Christ instead it was through Adam that we all got Death until Jesus Christ then showed up to give those of us who believe in Him Life( grace).

Through the Same Jesus Christ we are given a New Law, the New Covenant promised by God through His prophets.

Should we declare that since we are no longer condemned to die for our sins as a result of the eternal life(grace) we have received from Jesus Christ that there Is then no reason to obey Him, Jesus Christ by way of His teachings and commandments?

Unfortunately that grace(eternal life) can also be spent in the place called Hell for that is where those who refuse to obey Jesus Christ, continuing instead in sin, will spend the grace(eternal life) they received when they were saved from Death by Jesus Christ.

LisaAnneMia:
In all the examples I gave, which one came first, the goodness of God or their repentance?

Kobojunkie:
In the case of Adam, goodness came first with the Law. But Adam broke the Law and was condemned, along with all of those who broke the Law, to Death.

After Adam, repentance came first by the law. Example, Abraham, the idol worshipper condemned to Die like Adam before Him, chose to repent and obey the Law God after which God's goodness followed.

LisaAnneMia:
There was law during Abraham's time? Pls show me the scripture that Abraham was given a law to follow? You see what I said in another thread? When a question is asked and you dunno the answer, you like going round the bush and come up with something that isn't tangible

Kobojunkie:
I like going round the Bush to come up with something that isn't tangible? I m sorry you feel that way about making sure to stick to context in that case. The words I posted where not mine, but Jesus Christ's. Your problem is not with me but with Him instead since you felt to disregard a portion of His own statement just so you could cling to the fragment you desired instead.

About Abraham, in Genesis 25 vs 1-5, God Himself explains to Isaac why He,God blessed Abraham.

LisaAnneMia:
See Genesis 25:1-5

Abraham had taken another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. 3 Jokshan was the father of Sheba and Dedan; the descendants of Dedan were the Ashurites, the Letushites and the Leummites. 4 The sons of Midian were Ephah, Epher, Hanok, Abida and Eldaah. All these were descendants of Keturah.

5 Abraham left everything he owned to Isaac.

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
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1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Kobojunkie:
my mistake! 26, not 25

LisaAnneMia:
And were the commandments that He gave Abraham recorded for us to know? No! Why? Cos Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. His walk with God was everything Abraham needed. Everything God said Abraham to do, He did and when Abraham slept with Hagar, didn't he break a command? Or shouldn't God get angry with him and cancel His covenant that Abraham will bear Isaac? And when Abraham lied twice that Sarah is his sister (which actually is true), God shouldn't have plagued those Kings na. Or help me understand

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
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1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Kobojunkie:
The Law God gave Adam contained one command particular command which stated that Adam not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, a law which Adam broke, condemning all unbelievers after Him to death as a result.

We do not have the details of the Law(statutes, commands, and rules) that God gave to Abraham, what we do know is that God, the record keeper declared Adam righteous in His obedience of the Law given to Him and that should suffice.

LisaAnneMia:
We're talking about Abraham, you're talking about Adam again.

The commandments given to Abraham were step by step instructions from God to him. The instructions came as a result of Abraham's relationship with God. Abraham wasn't a blameless or perfect man before God gave him that covenant. Neither was his walk blameless after that. As long as he believed God, he was righteous. It's there in the Bible. It's not about Abraham's goodness dear, it's God's goodness in his life

Kobojunkie:

So God lied when He declared Abraham righteous as a result of his works.
Abraham did not in fact do that which God commanded of him ?
Instead God, the impartial one, was instead partial where Abraham was concerned?
Is this the default grading system with God or does this only apply in the case of Abraham? I wonder cause all the other men who were declared righteous by the same God - Job, Zechariah, Elizabeth, Simeon, Joseph, Joseph of arimathea - was God also partial to them as well?

LisaAnneMia:
You weren't even paying attention. The commandments like you said are the instructions God gave Abraham and did Abraham disobey God? No! Every step of the way, God told Abraham what to do. He didn't put down some rules on stones to guide Abraham. That's how our relationship with God is. He guides us step by step on what to do and not to do. It's a personal relationship. Just like Jesus too. He never shamed those who came to Him. Even the woman that had 5 husbands. Did Jesus tell her the commandments she broke and condemn her? No! He said she should drink from Him and out of her springs of water will flow!

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Kobojunkie:
I didn't say the commandments are mere instructions that God gave Abraham, you did.

In Genesis 26 vs 1 - 5, God makes it clear to us that He did indeed give Abraham a Law/Covenant-a contract complete with rules, commands, statues - what we like to call rules set in stone for Abraham to follow.

The same God gave Adam Law/Covenant as well. The same Law passed from generation to generation and on top of that, God made an additional contract with Abraham, so?

LisaAnneMia:
Let's say this is true, didn't Abraham sin after? Wasn't he still called righteous after his sin?

Genesis 26 vs 1-5 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Now there was a famine. This was like the famine that happened during Abraham’s life. So Isaac went to the town of Gerar, to King Abimelech of the Philistines.
2. The Lord spoke to Isaac and said, “Don’t go down to Egypt. Live in the land that I commanded you to live in.
3. Stay in this land, and I will be with you. I will bless you. I will give you and your family all these lands. I will do what I promised to Abraham your father.
4. I will make your family as many as the stars of heaven, and I will give all these lands to your family. Through your descendants[a] every nation on earth will be blessed.
5. I will do this because your father Abraham obeyed my words and did what I said. He obeyed my commands, my laws, and my rules.”

Kobojunkie:
It is possible that He sinned afterwards, but since we do not know the particulars of the very details of the contract between Him and God, a contract which defines for him what sin is, how can we truly know if he sinned or not?

We know Adam sinned we know the detail of the command which he failed and the consequence that followed the breaking of that one command.

But in Abraham's case , we can't really know what Abraham's sins were and what consequences, if any, where attached to those sins since we are blind to the exact details of God's contract with Him. What we instead know is that after all was said and done, Abraham proved himself righteous with God through his obedience.

livingchrist:
Righteousness is not by works but by faith in Christ anyother righteousness is filthy rag.

LisaAnneMia:
And Kobojunkie goes round and round, round and round, round and round...and Kobojunkie goes round and round, round the bush!

And who's gonna save Kobojunkie, save Kobojunkie, save Kobojunkie...and who's gonna save Kobojunkie, our Lord Jesus!

Kobojunkie:
How did I go round and round in this one again when I maintained as you clearly read from the scriptures that indeed there were laws/statutes/rules in place in both the case of Adam, and of Abraham, as well as that of all other men declared righteous by the very same God and written of in that same Bible of yours.

LisaAnneMia:
Okay, I need a straightforward answer here, after God gave Abraham rules and commandments like u said, didn't he sin afterwards? And when he sinned, did God call him unrighteous?

LisaAnneMia:
Hallelujah! That is the gospel!!!

Kobojunkie:
I don't know

livingchrist:
Dont bother arguing, with them. Wisdom is justified by her children

jesusjnr2020:
The Grace Gospel That Many In Hell Fire Believed

*It's that grace gospel that undermines the importance of righteousness in one's repentance and salvation! Matthew 5:20.

*It's that grace gospel that teaches that God doesn't regard the works of righteousness. Matthew 5:6, 10.God bless you.I lost a relationship when my ex told me that Anniahs and saphara got to heaven.Their body was destroyed for their soul to be saved.See brainwashing.She became pompous and we ended the relationship.

*It's that grace gospel that gives men to license to sin because it teaches that no amount of sin can make them lose their salvation. Matthew 24:48-51.

*It's the grace gospel that makes men think they can rely solely on the works of Christ and not do theirs. Matthew 16:27.

*It's the grace gospel that teaches the sinner who yet continues in his sin, that the blood of Jesus has already redeemed him from all his sins, even the ones he's yet to commit, so he doesn't need to repent from them. Luke 13:3, 5.

*It's the grace gospel that justifies ritualists, rapists, adulterers, cheats, thieves, murderers etc., and encourages them to continue in their wicked ways, because it teaches that all they need to do is to "believe" in Jesus to be saved, even if they turned not away from their wicked ways. Matthew 13:49-50.

*It's that grace gospel that makes many anointed pastors and ministers think they could get away with their works of iniquity! Matthew 7:22-23

*It's the grace gospel that makes iniquity to abound.

It's the grace gospel from hell!

It's the grace gospel that has both sent and is still sending many there!

Believe it to your own peril and destruction!

Jesus says!

Matthew 13:41-42 (KJV)

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear!

God bless.

jesusjnr2020:
The Grace Gospel That Many In Hell Fire Believed

*It's that grace gospel that undermines the importance of righteousness in one's repentance and salvation! Matthew 5:20.

*It's that grace gospel that teaches that God doesn't regard the works of righteousness. Matthew 5:6, 10.

*It's that grace gospel that gives men to license to sin because it teaches that no amount of sin can make them lose their salvation. Matthew 24:48-51.

*It's the grace gospel that makes men think they can rely solely on the works of Christ and not do theirs. Matthew 16:27.

*It's the grace gospel that teaches the sinner who yet continues in his sin, that the blood of Jesus has already redeemed him from all his sins, even the ones he's yet to commit, so he doesn't need to repent from them. Luke 13:3, 5.

*It's the grace gospel that justifies ritualists, rapists, adulterers, cheats, thieves, murderers etc., and encourages them to continue in their wicked ways, because it teaches that all they need to do is to "believe" in Jesus to be saved, even if they turned not away from their wicked ways. Matthew 13:49-50.

*It's that grace gospel that makes many anointed pastors and ministers think they could get away with their works of iniquity! Matthew 7:22-23

*It's the grace gospel that makes iniquity to abound.

It's the grace gospel from hell!

It's the grace gospel that has both sent and is still sending many there!

Believe it to your own peril and destruction!

Jesus says!

Matthew 13:41-42 (KJV)

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear!

God bless.

zimmaking:
I lost a relationship when my ex told me Anniahs and saphara are in heaven,that their body was destroyed to rescue their soul.She said if 5 minutes to rapture,that if you lied and commit sin,grace will cover you and make you rapturable.We ended the relationship,I can't continue in that indoctrination.

zimmaking:
I lost a relationship when my ex told me Anniahs and saphara are in heaven,that their body was destroyed to rescue their soul.She said if 5 minutes to rapture,that if you lied and commit sin,grace will cover you and make you rapturable.We ended the relationship,I can't continue in that indoctrination.