₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
God will decide whom to have mercy on or whom not have mercy on.

"It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy".

You should see how it connects to the [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+18%3A9-14&version=NLT]Parable of Hubris[/url], which Romans 9:15 is to teach us not to commit.

Malachi 1:2-3 declares, “‘I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’ ‘Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.’”

Malachi 1:3 is quoted in Romans 9:10-13, “Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’”

Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau? If God is love (1 John 4:, how could He hate anyone?

Myer:
Malachi 1:2-3 declares, “‘I have loved you,’” says the LORD. But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’ ‘Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?’ the LORD says. ‘Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals.’”

Malachi 1:3 is quoted in Romans 9:10-13, “Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’”

Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau? If God is love (1 John 4:, how could He hate anyone?

I so love when people put words into God's mouth and people believe it instead of looking around with their own eyes and accepting what they see, because if you did look around you'd see lots of people God is meant to hate, as you put it, being blessed by the ever loving God. A crude example would be God blessing nations that condone homosexuality, while Lord Lord Nigeria is wailing.

God is not a human being, nor would God ask humans to do what God can't bother doing. and as I've stated, love your enemies is a removal of conditions to not love. If you can love your children unconditionally as you likely do and regardless of their sins, and if your parents can love you unconditionally too as they likely do regardless of your sins, then how much more can God love unconditionally?

Do note that love does not preclude punishment. If one sins one will be justly rewarded but one will still be loved like the one sheep out of a hundred that went astray.

budaatum:
I so love when people put words into God's mouth and people believe it instead of looking around with their own eyes and accepting what they see, because if you did look around you'd see lots of people God is meant to hate, as you put it, being blessed by the ever loving God. A crude example would be God blessing nations that condone homosexuality, while Lord Lord Nigeria is wailing.

God is not a human being, nor would God ask humans to do what God can't bother doing. and as I've stated, love your enemies is a removal of conditions to not love. If you can love your children unconditionally as you likely do and regardless of their sins, and if your parents can love you unconditionally too as they likely do regardless of your sins, then how much more can God love unconditionally?

Do note that love does not preclude punishment. If one sins one will be justly rewarded but one will still be loved like the one sheep out of a hundred that went astray.

This is where I get tired of discussing the bible with your kind.
Malachi clearly explained that God hated Esau in the literal meaning of Hate. Why do you then choose to define your own meaning?
Clearly it is you who is putting words and meanings into God's mouth.

Even in Romans where Paul explained Malachi he clearly defines the Hate as Hate. God actually hated Esau even while he was yet unborn and loved Jacob while unborn.
In attemplting to define your own meaning to suit your argument or desires, you have simply turned the bible against itself.
But maybe you understand Malachi better than Apostle Paul though, you being a priest of the order of Melchizedek (that's called sarcasm before you add your own meaning.)

This is the rest of Malachi 1:1-6
... Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the Lord of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.’
Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the Lord beyond the border of Israel!”


Here is Paul's explanation; Roman's 9:10-20

And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of thim who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?
Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?

Myer:
This is where I get tired of discussing the bible with your kind.
Malachi clearly explained that God hated Esau in the literal meaning of Hate. Why do you then choose to define your own meaning?
Clearly it is you who is putting words and meanings into God's mouth.

Even in Romans where Paul explained Malachi he clearly defines the Hate as Hate. God actually hated Esau even while he was yet unborn and loved Jacob while unborn.
In attemplting to define your own meaning to suit your argument or desires, you have simply turned the bible against itself.
But maybe you understand Malachi better than Apostle Paul though, you being a priest of the order of Melchizedek (that's called sarcasm before you add your own meaning.)

This is the rest of Malachi 1:1-6
... Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the Lord of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.’
Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the Lord beyond the border of Israel!”


Here is Paul's explanation; Roman's 9:10-20

And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of thim who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 
For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God?
Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?

You are obviously not under any obligation to discuss anything with me, so when you've had enough you know what to do, but while you are here, we are simply looking at this from completely different positions.

To start with, who is Malachi to fathom the mind of God? Is he not writing his own opinion just as you and I are doing?

God dislikes a lot of things, clearly, and even hates a lot of things that we humans do, like murder, not loving ones neighbour and such like, but that does not mean God hates the murderer or those who don't love their neighbours, is my own opinion, just as we too are not meant to hate murderers or those who do not love their enemies. That of course does not mean we would not be punished for such sins, but to claim God's love is conditional implies one can fulfil conditions to win God's love, which I very much doubt despite the fact that we must still do that which God requires us to do.

The world that God loved and sent his only begotten Son to come and save might give you a clue. It was clearly a world that did not fulfil whatever conditions one might think God might have, hence the need for Christ, yet God clearly still loved it so much that God sent Christ to save it, hence fulfilling whatever conditions God might have God's self.

We can not fulfil the conditions regardless how much we might try, hence Grace, is what I think, for as [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Isaiah%2064%3A6]Isaiah is written to have said[/url], "we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away". Note, "our righteousnesses" are as filthy rags, how much more an unrighteous sinner like myself, how can I possibly fulfil any conditions God might set in irder to win God's love? Yet here I am, loved by God regardless, unless you'd like to claim otherwise of course.

But its ok by me if you understand it different to how I do, for as I said about Malachi, who am I to fathom the mind of the Almighty God. So please have a most blessed and wonderful day. God loves you unconditionally is what I think.

budaatum:
You are obviously not under any obligation to discuss anything with me, so when you've had enough you know what to do, but while you are here, we are simply looking at this from completely different positions.

To start with, who is Malachi to fathom the mind of God? Is he not writing his own opinion just as you and I are doing?

God dislikes a lot of things, clearly, and even hates a lot of things that we humans do, like murder, not loving ones neighbour and such like, but that does not mean God hates the murderer or those who don't love their neighbours, is my own opinion, just as we too are not meant to hate murderers or those who do not love their enemies. That of course does not mean we would not be punished for such sins, but to claim God's love is conditional implies one can fulfil conditions to win God's love, which I very much doubt despite the fact that we must still do that which God requires us to do.

The world that God loved and sent his only begotten Son to come and save might give you a clue. It was clearly a world that did not fulfil whatever conditions one might think God might have, hence the need for Christ, yet God clearly still loved it so much that God sent Christ to save it, hence fulfilling whatever conditions God might have God's self.

We can not fulfil the conditions regardless how much we might try, hence Grace, is what I think, for as [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Isaiah%2064%3A6]Isaiah is written to have said[/url], "we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away". Note, "our righteousnesses" are as filthy rags, how much more an unrighteous sinner like myself, how can I possibly fulfil any conditions God might set in irder to win God's love? Yet here I am, loved by God regardless, unless you'd like to claim otherwise of course.

But its ok by me if you understand it different to how I do, for as I said about Malachi, who am I to fathom the mind of the Almighty God. So please have a most blessed and wonderful day. God loves you unconditionally is what I think.

praise God.

Dangerousboy:
praise God.

Aleluya, Amen!