₦airaland Forum

Hismasterpiece:
God is the all-powerful, all-knowing being who created the universe as we know it.

He created man and all other creatures on this planet.

That is meaningless babble.

Or you could have said, "Zeus could be defined as the all-powerful, all-knowing being who created the universe as we know it. He created man and all other creatures on this planet."

Zeus was a god, created by humans. The only way to kill a god is to stop believing in said god. There have been many dying and rising gods, many with miraculous birth stories too. All created by humans. Many were created after a neuro stimulating event which created awe and wonder - such as a volcano, spewing lava on stones.

Why don't you believe in Zeus or Bast or even Hanuman or Durga or even Vishnu or Shiva? Why is your god called God, instead of El or Ehyeh, which, when translated, is also what Vishnu/Krishna was - the I am.

The question is if a sentient creator god is "necessary" for evolutionary processes. The answer to that is NO.

Now, for your sake, let's revisit your question

Hismasterpiece:
What would a logical argument for God sound like to you. Please explain. What do you mean by a logical argument for God.

Definitions are a place to start, otherwise I don't know what you are talking about. If i said Zeus doesn't exist, you probably wouldn’t question that. I'm guessing you don't understand what a logical compelling reason looks like, but, that's what you asked for. I lack a logical compelling reason for believing, so I'm an atheist. That's logically sound.

If I wanted to EXPLAIN why the CONCEPT of god exists, I could look at historical factors, and see how the IDEAS helped keep tribes together centuries ago. I could make a case for those ideas helping people to survive. But those worldviews bring bad, unhealthy ideas with them. We need to sort out what is worth keeping, and belief, based on nothing, is not one that is helping us right now.

HellVictorinho:
Nah


It's your comparison of dreams to THIS that is unnecessary.


What else

That's the whole point: you have NO WAY of knowing the true nature of THIS. And the sad thing is that when a clue appears you attribute it to chance or yet-to-be---known. All those strange occurrences I believe are slip-ups of the system - someone "over there" probably got fired fir them

m

LordReed:
Powerful in what sense?

What sense do u think I mean?

HellVictorinho:
False

Be specific. What part is false? How?

Near1:
That is meaningless babble. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the blah…blah…blah. The question is if a sentient creator god is "necessary" for evolutionary processes. The answer to that is NO.

Now, for your sake, let's revisit your question


Definitions are a place to start, otherwise I don't know what you are talking about. If i said Zeus doesn't exist, you probably wouldn’t question that. I'm guessing you don't understand what a logical compelling reason looks like, but, that's what you asked for. I lack a logical compelling reason for believing, so I'm an atheist. That's logically sound.

If I wanted to EXPLAIN why the CONCEPT of god exists, I could look at historical factors, and see how the IDEAS helped keep tribes together centuries ago. I could make a case for those ideas helping people to survive. But those worldviews bring bad, unhealthy ideas with them. We need to sort out what is worth keeping, and belief, based on nothing, is not one that is helping us right now.

I find it amazing the arrogance with which people talk.
HOW DO YOU KNOW??!!
Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural. Because it covers up all their slip ups (no system is perfect). Instead of seeing them as signs that things are not as they seem to us, they find a way to justify them. say it is natural thereby covering up their mistakes for them - exactly what they want!

Why Should I Be A Theist?

Theists in the house I invite you all to give me logical and compelling reasons as to why theism is the correct worldview.

OK, FreeIgboho, your turn .

Let's see how you know the things that you do, how confident you are in your assertions, or if they warrant the ad hominem "arrogant".

FreeIgboho:
Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural. Because it covers up all their slip ups (no system is perfect). Instead of seeing them as signs that things are not as they seem to us, they find a way to justify them. say it is natural thereby covering up their mistakes for them - exactly what they want!

Now, who is they and what are they trying to cover up? Atheists or Theists?

FreeIgboho:
What sense do u think I mean?

I don't know that's why I am asking.

FreeIgboho:
I find it amazing the arrogance with which people talk.
HOW DO YOU KNOW??!!
Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural. Because it covers up all their slip ups (no system is perfect). Instead of seeing them as signs that things are not as they seem to us, they find a way to justify them. say it is natural thereby covering up their mistakes for them - exactly what they want!

If "Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural" how come there are more people who believe in the supernatural than who don't? Besides since you claim we don't know things how do you know there's a "Whoever set this our reality up"?

FreeIgboho:
Forget about me and my type. Just think logically for one second.
1) you don't know what you don't know and you have no way of knowing what you don't know you don't know - Neo would live and died and even gone to "heaven" without ever suspecting the entire thing was fake. 2) You have NO WAY of proving that anything exists outside your head. You experience reality entirely through your brain. 3) You have no way of knowing what limitations and distortions were built into your brain.
**Therefore you don't know anything except that maybe you yourself exist
**Specifically, you don't know enough to declare yourself an atheist

Guy you're just confused. Are you joking? Or are you seriously spewing this craziness?

HellVictorinho:
It is not a matter of choice


Nobody chooses to be a theist or an atheist


It happens by chance

What are you saying? We all are a product of our choices. Everybody chooses their beliefs.

You can say however that our nationality, parents, siblings, skin color, name, etc. Are not in our power to choose.

Near1:
That is meaningless babble.

Or you could have said, "Zeus could be defined as the all-powerful, all-knowing being who created the universe as we know it. He created man and all other creatures on this planet."

Zeus was a god, created by humans. The only way to kill a god is to stop believing in said god. There have been many dying and rising gods, many with miraculous birth stories too. All created by humans. Many were created after a neuro stimulating event which created awe and wonder - such as a volcano, spewing lava on stones.

Why don't you believe in Zeus or Bast or even Hanuman or Durga or even Vishnu or Shiva? Why is your god called God, instead of El or Ehyeh, which, when translated, is also what Vishnu/Krishna was - the I am.

The question is if a sentient creator god is "necessary" for evolutionary processes. The answer to that is NO.

Now, for your sake, let's revisit your question


Definitions are a place to start, otherwise I don't know what you are talking about. If i said Zeus doesn't exist, you probably wouldn’t question that. I'm guessing you don't understand what a logical compelling reason looks like, but, that's what you asked for. I lack a logical compelling reason for believing, so I'm an atheist. That's logically sound.

If I wanted to EXPLAIN why the CONCEPT of god exists, I could look at historical factors, and see how the IDEAS helped keep tribes together centuries ago. I could make a case for those ideas helping people to survive. But those worldviews bring bad, unhealthy ideas with them. We need to sort out what is worth keeping, and belief, based on nothing, is not one that is helping us right now.

That's the thing. My belief in God is not based on nothing. It's based on facts.

Hismasterpiece:
That's the thing. My belief in God is not based on nothing. It's based on facts.

Which facts?

FreeIgboho:
That's the whole point: you have NO WAY of knowing the true nature of THIS. And the sad thing is that when a clue appears you attribute it to chance or yet-to-be---known. All those strange occurrences I believe are slip-ups of the system - someone "over there" probably got fired fir them

False

Hismasterpiece:
What are you saying? We all are a product of our choices. Everybody chooses their beliefs.

You can say however that our nationality, parents, siblings, skin color, name, etc. Are not in our power to choose.

Nobody chooses beliefs

FreeIgboho:
Be specific. What part is false? How?

It is impossible for me not to know when I am demonstrating that I know certain things



It's all about demonstrations



If you know XYZ,then you prove that you know it by demonstrating your knowledge of XYZ

Hismasterpiece:
Guy you're just confused. Are you joking? Or are you seriously spewing this craziness?

You know fully well it's no crziness. Only that it scares you - you have no way of knowing if anything exists outside your head, and you have no way of knowing the true nature of what it is that possibly exists.
See below, that Matrix clip again. Mention ONE thing you can do that Neo can't do? Yet everything he thinks he knows is false because he lives in a "dream", a construct, a simulation!

HellVictorinho:
It is impossible for me not to know when I am demonstrating that I know certain things



It's all about demonstrations



If you know XYZ,then you prove that you know it by demonstrating your knowledge of XYZ

See below, that Matrix clip again. Mention ONE thing you can do that Neo can't do? Yet everything he thinks he knows is false because he lives in a "dream", a construct, a simulation!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVM5-_fusjs

LordReed:
If "Whoever set this our reality up must love people who say there is no supernatural" how come there are more people who believe in the supernatural than who don't? Besides since you claim we don't know things how do you know there's a "Whoever set this our reality up"?

Of course there are more people who think there is a supernatural because most people go by what they EXPERIENCE not try to logic it like you. If a child is born remembering his past life and bearing a birthmark at the spot where he was shot dead, they don't say it is one big coincidence!

I DON'T KNOW!!! Just as you don't! No one knows enough to declare himself atheist!

Near1:
Why Should I Be A Theist?

Theists in the house I invite you all to give me logical and compelling reasons as to why theism is the correct worldview.

OK, FreeIgboho, your turn .

Let's see how you know the things that you do, how confident you are in your assertions, or if they warrant the ad hominem "arrogant".


Now, who is they and what are they trying to cover up? Atheists or Theists?

No one knows for sure (like in everything), but there is a greater chance theists are right because there is a high probability that this is some sort of a simulation and whoever it is that set it up they refer to as "God". Also man has an inbuilt need to worship something.

"They" is whoever set up this our reality. What they want more than anything else is for us never to suspect that things may not be as we perceive them.
But there are slip-ups in the system - when a dead person briefly appears (oops!), or a child has clear memory of his past life (oops!), etc

FreeIgboho:
Of course there are more people who think there is a supernatural because most people go by what they EXPERIENCE not try to logic it like you. If a child is born remembering his past life and bearing a birthmark at the spot where he was shot dead, they don't say it is one big coincidence!

I DON'T KNOW!!! Just as you don't! No one knows enough to declare himself atheist!

But you claimed to know that this universe is setup by a whoever, how did you come to this conclusion if you don't know?

I declare myself an atheist because I DON'T BELIEVE in any god or gods, it is not a claim that I know there are no gods. I did claim however to know that the god of the Abrahamic faith doesn't exist because I have sufficient evidence.

It is not a question of logic but of evidence. If you don't claim to know anything then I wonder how you are reaching any conclusions. How are you able to declare there exists a supernatural when you don't know anything?

Your claim is kind of absurd though because here you are conversing with me in a language you most definitely learned so how can you not know the language you are conversing in?

LordReed:
But you claimed to know that this universe is setup by a whoever, how did you come to this conclusion if you don't know?

I declare myself an atheist because I DON'T BELIEVE in any god or gods, it is not a claim that I know there are no gods. I did claim however to know that the god of the Abrahamic faith doesn't exist because I have sufficient evidence.

It is not a question of logic but of evidence. If you don't claim to know anything then I wonder how you are reaching any conclusions. How are you able to declare there exists a supernatural when you don't know anything?

Your claim is kind of absurd though because here you are conversing with me in a language you most definitely learned so how can you not know the language you are conversing in?

You are being ridiculous. You know fully well the basis of everything I say is that we don't know anything for sure. How can I say I know the universe was set up?!!

In that case u are more agnostic (which is the right position to take) than Atheist. As we define it, an Atheist is one who says there are no gods.

You don't know enough to say Abrahamic don't exist. Do you know in the old days when certain deities were worshiped those deities had real power. It is entirely possible our belief in a god creates it. Point is: we don't know enough to say that's impossible

I never reached any conclusions. There u go, being ridiculous again.
Can't you learn a language in a dream? Stop arguing like a baby. Neo can learn a language too, and do everything I can do - yet it's all fake!

FreeIgboho:
See below, that Matrix clip again. Mention ONE thing you can do that Neo can't do? Yet everything he thinks he knows is false because he lives in a "dream", a construct, a simulation!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVM5-_fusjs

That video doesn't apply or relate to what we are debating

FreeIgboho:
You are being ridiculous. You know fully well the basis of everything I say is that we don't know anything for sure. How can I say I know the universe was set up?!!

In that case u are more agnostic (which is the right position to take) than Atheist. As we define it, an Atheist is one who says there are no gods.

You don't know enough to say Abrahamic don't exist. Do you know in the old days when certain deities were worshiped those deities had real power. It is entirely possible our belief in a god creates it. Point is: we don't know enough to say that's impossible

I never reached any conclusions. There u go, being ridiculous again.
Can't you learn a language in a dream? Stop arguing like a baby. Neo can learn a language too, and do everything I can do - yet it's all fake!

I know enough to say you are wrong here

HellVictorinho:
That video doesn't apply or relate to what we are debating

It is exactky what we are debating: Neo is in a reality he'd never suspect is a "dream", a simulation - which is highly likely our own situation

FreeIgboho:
It is exactky what we are debating: Neo is in a reality he'd never suspect is a "dream", a simulation - which is highly likely our own situation

Don't use the word ''we"


You are the one who keeps talking about Neo


Hmm, I wanna ask you something


Have you ever had a dream in a dream?

HellVictorinho:
I know enough to say you are wrong here

You have no way of verifying what is outside you head.
Bottom line, you know nothing for sure, except that thinking exists.
QED

HellVictorinho:
Don't use the word ''we"


You are the one who keeps talking about Neo


Hmm, I wanna ask you something


Have you ever had a dream in a dream?

Now you are getting it - and each of the dreams seemed real!

FreeIgboho:
You are being ridiculous. You know fully well the basis of everything I say is that we don't know anything for sure. How can I say I know the universe was set up?!!

In that case u are more agnostic (which is the right position to take) than Atheist. As we define it, an Atheist is one who says there are no gods.

You don't know enough to say Abrahamic don't exist. Do you know in the old days when certain deities were worshiped those deities had real power. It is entirely possible our belief in a god creates it. Point is: we don't know enough to say that's impossible

I never reached any conclusions. There u go, being ridiculous again.
Can't you learn a language in a dream? Stop arguing like a baby. Neo can learn a language too, and do everything I can do - yet it's all fake!

You are the one being ridiculous and childish, who can't distinguish between what is real and what is fiction. You watched a freaking movie and won't shut up about it because you think it's real. You sound like an unwashed infant from the village they took to the cinema who closes his eyes because he thinks the car in the movie is about to hit him. Grow up please and stop fooling yourself about the Matrix movie, it's only a movie.

I am an agnostic atheist, I don't believe in any gods, if you have any gods prove them, it's that simple. I don't care if your god had power in the past, I don't live in that past.

You never reached any conclusions but you somehow know that the universe was setup by a who and that there is a supernatural, are you not the one kidding yourself?

FreeIgboho:
Now you are getting it - and each of the dreams seemed real!

Answer the question

LordReed:
You are the one being ridiculous and childish, who can't distinguish between what is real and what is fiction. You watched a freaking movie and won't shut up about it because you think it's real. You sound like an unwashed infant from the village they took to the cinema who closes his eyes because he thinks the car in the movie is about to hit him. Grow up please and stop fooling yourself about the Matrix movie, it's only a movie.

I am an agnostic atheist, I don't believe in any gods, if you have any gods prove them, it's that simple. I don't care if your god had power in the past, I don't live in that past.

You never reached any conclusions but you somehow know that the universe was setup by a who and that there is a supernatural, are you not the one kidding yourself?

You should really be concerned that the ancients knew better than you. What do u think led to: "I think, therefore I am"

HellVictorinho:
Answer the question

Of course. Who has never had a dream in a dream??!!