₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
Give me 5 examples.

There is a God

He created the earth

Our parents sinned and rebelled against Him and threw the world into calamity.

Jesus is the Son of God and Christ of God.

He died on the cross, thereby taking humanity's justly deserved condemnation and granting forgiveness to all who believe in Him.

Hismasterpiece:
There is a God

He created the earth

Our parents sinned and rebelled against Him and threw the world into calamity.

Jesus is the Son of God and Christ of God.

He died on the cross, thereby taking humanity's justly deserved condemnation and granting forgiveness to all who believe in Him.

What’s so special about dying on a cross? If the divine bastard really wanted to impress, he can come back and we’ll send him to a Saudi Arabian embassy. They’ll do the needful and then we’ll wait for him to put the myriad pieces of his body back together. That’d be a miracle.

HellVictorinho:
Whether you are sure or not, I know I exist because I exist


If I don't exist,it means I won't know.

For all I know it's a figment of my imagination that typed this

LordReed:
You obviously because we were talking of Dr Anil Seth whom you so obviously quoted but decided to slip in another Seth. You were trying to be too clever by half, thinking Dr Anil Seth's authority will give credence to your mumbo jumbo Seth. I don't care for your other Seth because he is a hoax. Jane Roberts had hypothyroidism, of which one of the symptoms is mood disorders and schizophrenia-spectrum disorders. He was a figment of her imagination.

Anybody who reads a statement saying people live multiple types and still says whoever said it doesn't believe in the supernatural, is making a fool of himself

FreeIgboho:
Anybody who reads a statement saying people live multiple types and still says whoever said it doesn't believe in the supernatural, is making a fool of himself

Stop trying to be too clever by half, we are talking of Dr Anil Seth not some imagination of an unwell person.

Hismasterpiece:
There is a God

He created the earth

Our parents sinned and rebelled against Him and threw the world into calamity.

Jesus is the Son of God and Christ of God.

He died on the cross, thereby taking humanity's justly deserved condemnation and granting forgiveness to all who believe in Him.

The only 1 of these that we can agree is a fact is someone called Jesus was crucified by Roman authorities, I don't agree he did it for humanity or to grant forgiveness. You are going have to establish these as facts before you can say that they are facts.

Hismasterpiece:
The Bible teaches that one day God will rid the world of evil and wipe away every tear. The Bible also teaches that God is not a sluggard with regards to that promise but is patiently waiting for the evil people to repent of their evil and turn wholeheartedly to Him. But whether they repent or not He is returning one day to judge all.

You talk about God being silent with regards to the evils being done by others while you're not taking into consideration all the evils that you yourself have done and are doing which God is also silent (but not consenting) to. If God were to behave as you expect without giving you or the others involved in evil a chance to change would that be fair?

God loves the terrorist as well as He loves their victims. And don't you dare question God's love for terrorists because in the eyes of God both the terrorist and their victims are guilty and worthy is punishment (I'm not supporting the terrorists) but I'm just saying that just because people fell victims of terror doesn't excuse all the bad things that they may have done. The so-called victims could have been involved in adultery, lying, stealing, etc. and the fact that they fell victim to terror doesn't excuse them.

As regards all these claims the Bible teaches that there is a set day for judgement. After a man dies he is judged. So this is how God works. He just watches them while they do the terrible things that they do (hoping that they would repent) but in the event that they don't, and die in that state, God will punish them in hell.

God will not let evil go unpunished. All those terrorists and false pastors will answer to God one day and it is a fearful thing to fall into the Hands of the Living God.

This is still incomprehensible and disjointed to say the god loves but is willing to standby by while billions of people suffer over the course of thousands of years but he is waiting for some undetermined day to right all wrong. Meanwhile people continue to suffer and die under horrible circumstances and the god with the power to do something is just watching silently. It makes more sense when you realise there isn't any such god.

LordReed:
Stop trying to be too clever by half, we are talking of Dr Anil Seth not some imagination of an unwell person.

Whenever you say a statement like that doesn't imply there is a supernatural it's called making a fool of yourself.
You should have been disputing who made the statement not what the statement meant

LordReed:
The only 1 of these that we can agree is a fact is someone called Jesus was crucified by Roman authorities, I don't agree he did it for humanity or to grant forgiveness. You are going have to establish these as facts before you can say that they are facts.

They are facts indeed. The very facts upon which the entire Christian faith is based.

You are right to say that Jesus was crucified by roman authorities.

But was He raised from the dead as His early disciples claimed and were even willing to die for it?

Absolutely!

The two facts that proved His resurrection are -

1. The empty tomb. Jesus' empty tomb was discovered by women and told to the disciples and they believed. This may not shock you but if you understand Jewish history you'll discover that the opinion or testimony of women didn't hold much water back then. However, the disciples didn't just believe because they were told so by the women, but they went and investigated themselves and found out that their claims were true. And this is also the fact that supports the resurrection claim because if Jesus' dead body was still lying in the tomb, the disciples wouldn't have gone around telling people that He had risen from the dead.

2. The postmortem appearances. Jesus is reported to have appeared to 500 people after His resurrection and the apostle Paul lastly. Now, most skeptics claim that these so-called appearances were hallucinations. Do you know why that is wrong? Because it is impossible for that large number of people to hallucinate at the same time and see the exact same things and also, if those were truly hallucinations, the disciples wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that Jesus had risen from the dead, because based on Jewish belief, the Messiah that they were expecting was not a dying or rising from the dead Messiah. They were expecting a political Messiah who would deliver them from Roman rule. Also, the resurrection from the dead that the early Jews believed in is the general resurrection of all dead which the scriptures teach would happen at the last day.

So you see, Jesus truly was who He claimed to be. He talked about His death and resurrection but the disciples didn't understand Him.

They saw His crucifixion as a defeat. They never were expecting Him to rise from the dead. So, if His claims about His death and resurrection were true, how much more are His claims about dying for humanity to grant forgiveness true?

Hismasterpiece:
You do realize that those articles were written by non-Christians who are understandably biased? Give me an article by a honest skeptic who is open hearted and presents the truth with no biases behind them and I'll take you seriously.

No, you won’t. If anyone says something you do not agree with, you will see it as biased, regardless if it is founded on an unbiased viewpoint. The problem is that you begin by assuming a God exists and that it is up to Atheists to prove God doesn’t exist, which they do not need to do at all. Atheists don’t choose to become Atheist. They just believe that in the absence of any proof, there is no reason to choose to be Theist. But make no mistake about it, Atheists don’t need a God to be in awe of the majesty of the universe. I just don’t think all this needs a motivated Agency. Evolution has proven to apply to everything, not just to living things but to all natural self-organizing patterns.

Do you want to see self-organizing patterns? The mathematical geometry of nature?

Mathematics is not the language of Humans. It is the language of Logic, an abstract guiding equation that can be described and organized via symbolic mathematics such as human maths.

The manifestation of potential Higgs bosons was only mathematically predicted. There existed no record of ever having observed a Higgs boson. In Cern it was the “applied mathematics” of controlling certain natural forces to spontaneously create the form of a Higgs boson pattern at very small scales.

It took the Collider, but by setting all the controls in a certain mathematical pattern, the Higgs boson, would appear and show us it’s naturally self-forming pattern for just an instant. When we speak of “cell-memory”. is this the ability of cells to produce extremely small patterns , which may occasionally happen or at every instant in time, if we look deep enough.

Existence is a pattern, a chronology of patterns, from the extremely subtle abstract Implicated form, to gross expression in Explicated form as Reality (David Bohm). Reality consists of sets of patterns with various densities, starting with fractals and showing up in all naturally self-forming universal geometries such as atoms and spiral galaxies. Even subatomic particles are patterns arranged in a specific size and density. Wave functions shape the geometric arrangement and expressed (observable form) of complex patterns of size and density.and densities.

Watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mynr7uik5-0

It’s interesting why you as theist are so materialistic.

Hismasterpiece:
You do realize that those articles were written by non-Christians who are understandably biased?

You continue to use words that you don’t understand. If I’m wrong, you should be able to explain what you mean by this.

FreeIgboho:
For all I know it's a figment of my imagination that typed this

To hell with what you know!

LordReed:
This is still incomprehensible and disjointed to say the god loves but is willing to standby by while billions of people suffer over the course of thousands of years but he is waiting for some undetermined day to right all wrong. Meanwhile people continue to suffer and die under horrible circumstances and the god with the power to do something is just watching silently. It makes more sense when you realise there isn't any such god.

The thing is faith occurs accidentally in the head


It can only leave accidentally too

FreeIgboho:
Whenever you say a statement like that doesn't imply there is a supernatural it's called making a fool of yourself.
You should have been disputing who made the statement not what the statement meant

We were talking about Dr Anil Seth and you snuck in another imaginary Seth which you didn't mention so how was I to know it was not the same Seth? You were simply being deceptive.

LordReed:
We were talking about Dr Anil Seth and you snuck in another imaginary Seth which you didn't mention so how was I to know it was not the same Seth? You were simply being deceptive.

We are not debating deceptive or anything else. We are debating who was making a fool of himself, and clearly it was YOU!

HellVictorinho:
To hell with what you know!

I knew it! What real person would type this??!!
You can't fool me. Figment of my imagination

Hismasterpiece:
They are facts indeed. The very facts upon which the entire Christian faith is based.

You are right to say that Jesus was crucified by roman authorities.

But was He raised from the dead as His early disciples claimed and were even willing to die for it?

Absolutely!

The two facts that proved His resurrection are -

1. The empty tomb. Jesus' empty tomb was discovered by women and told to the disciples and they believed. This may not shock you but if you understand Jewish history you'll discover that the opinion or testimony of women didn't hold much water back then. However, the disciples didn't just believe because they were told so by the women, but they went and investigated themselves and found out that their claims were true. And this is also the fact that supports the resurrection claim because if Jesus' dead body was still lying in the tomb, the disciples wouldn't have gone around telling people that He had risen from the dead.

2. The postmortem appearances. Jesus is reported to have appeared to 500 people after His resurrection and the apostle Paul lastly. Now, most skeptics claim that these so-called appearances were hallucinations. Do you know why that is wrong? Because it is impossible for that large number of people to hallucinate at the same time and see the exact same things and also, if those were truly hallucinations, the disciples wouldn't have jumped to the conclusion that Jesus had risen from the dead, because based on Jewish belief, the Messiah that they were expecting was not a dying or rising from the dead Messiah. They were expecting a political Messiah who would deliver them from Roman rule. Also, the resurrection from the dead that the early Jews believed in is the general resurrection of all dead which the scriptures teach would happen at the last day.

So you see, Jesus truly was who He claimed to be. He talked about His death and resurrection but the disciples didn't understand Him.

They saw His crucifixion as a defeat. They never were expecting Him to rise from the dead. So, if His claims about His death and resurrection were true, how much more are His claims about dying for humanity to grant forgiveness true?

There is a problem with this and it is that there is no way to verify that any of this is true. The one way we could have known that Jesus is alive is if he came back soon as he is reported to have said. Well its been almost 2000years and he still hasn't shown up. I am willing to bet you a N1million naira that we will not see Jesus in our lifetime and as a sign we won't see Jesus come 2030. For 25+ years I was told Jesus was coming, I believed it till my mind cleared and I realised that there is no Jesus that is coming back.

FreeIgboho:
We are not debating deceptive or anything else. We are debating who was making a fool of himself, and clearly it was YOU!

LoL! It was you making a fool of yourself quoting a figment of someone's imagination and thinking it is real. Is it not the same you shouting about The Matrix movie as if it is real? That's your mo, as clear as daylight. Bwahahahahaha!

LordReed:
LoL! It was you making a fool of yourself quoting a figment of someone's imagination and thinking it is real. Is it not the same you shouting about The Matrix movie as if it is real? That's your mo, as clear as daylight. Bwahahahahaha!

You actually said it with a straight face - that a statement clearly stating that people have multiple lifetimes does no support existence of a supernatural!!!!!

LordReed:
LoL! It was you making a fool of yourself quoting a figment of someone's imagination and thinking it is real. Is it not the same you shouting about The Matrix movie as if it is real? That's your mo, as clear as daylight. Bwahahahahaha!

As for matrix movie, some movies are good metaphors for our existence - this is one of them. The true nature of reality may not be like anything we can possibly imagine. We could very well be brains in jars linked together

FreeIgboho:
You actually said it with a straight face - that a statement clearly stating that people have multiple lifetimes does no support existence of a supernatural!!!!!

I wrote that what Dr Anil Seth said doesn't support supernatural, go look at it again which was why I asked in what article he said it, not knowing you were talking of some fictional character.

FreeIgboho:
As for matrix movie, some movies are good metaphors for our existence - this is one of them. The true nature of reality may not be like anything we can possibly imagine. We could very well be brains in jars linked together

The problem with you is you are more enamoured with the metaphor than with reality. Can you demonstrate anything remotely close to Neo's supernatural abilities? Can you demonstrate any sort of supernatural ability?

LordReed:
The problem with you is you are more enamoured with the metaphor than with reality. Can you demonstrate anything remotely close to Neo's supernatural abilities? Can you demonstrate any sort of supernatural ability?

How can I be enamored with "reality" when I have no way of knowing it's true nature. Wether I can demonstrate supernatural ability is irrelevant. In fact if we indeed exist in a simulation the first duty of the simulators would be to make absolutely sure we NEVER suspect it's a simulation. That's why we shouldn't dismiss or try to rationalize reports of supernatural occurrences because those could be slip-ups in their system. There are a billion ways existence could have been set up so we can independently verify that what we are experiencing is real. And why is it set up so we must sleep and dream? Is it so the simulators would have opportunity to tinker with our brains. Point is, we don't know. Or at least I don't know, as you may not even really exist!

FreeIgboho:
How can I be enamored with "reality" when I have no way of knowing it's true nature. Wether I can demonstrate supernatural ability is irrelevant. In fact if we indeed exist in a simulation the first duty of the simulators would be to make absolutely sure we NEVER suspect it's a simulation. That's why we shouldn't dismiss or try to rationalize reports of supernatural occurrences because those could be slip-ups in their system. There are a billion ways existence could have been set up so we can independently verify that what we are experiencing is real. And why is it set up so we must sleep and dream? Is it so the simulators would have opportunity to tinker with our brains. Point is, we don't know. Or at least I don't know, as you may not even really exist!

LMAO! So you'd rather be enamoured with fiction than consider what you experience every waking minute? Dude you are lost in hard solipsism.

LordReed:
I wrote that what Dr Anil Seth said doesn't support supernatural, go look at it again which was why I asked in what article he said it, not knowing you were talking of some fictional character.

This discussion was never focused on him (in fact you are the one who kept writing "Dr. Anil Seth", I never did). I presented a quote that talks blatantly about past lives and your response was that it didn't mean it said supernatural existed.

The clip in question, here's what I wrote about it:
---
He never said that supernatural did not exist. But assuming he did, did you ever ask yourself this: how did he know?!

The relevant thing he said is that we make up "reality" - we don't know it's true nature. Common sense tells you that is true.

1) We have no way if knowing FOR SURE the true nature of reality
2) Therefore we can't know for sure whether a supernatural exists but preponderance of evidence and experiences suggest that it does.
---
Lol. Told u you lost the argument because you refuse to acknowledge the only thing we are sure of - that we aren't sure the true nature of reality - and have no way of being sure! At least I am not sure, as I have no way of knowing if you really exist!

LordReed:
LMAO! So you'd rather be enamoured with fiction than consider what you experience every waking minute? Dude you are lost in hard solipsism.

I'm not enamoured with anything. I simply acknowledge the obvious which you folks refuse to do. And that is why you lost, and will always lose this type of argument.
(As long as you keep refusing to acknowledge the only thing we are sure of - that we aren't sure of the true nature of reality - and have no way of being sure. At least I am not sure, as I have no way of being sure you exist outside my head!)

FreeIgboho:
I'm not enamoured with anything. I simply acknowledge the obvious which you folks refuse to do. And that is why you lost, and will always lose this type of argument.
(As long as you keep refusing to acknowledge the only thing we are sure of - that we aren't sure of the true nature of reality - and have no way of being sure. At least I am not sure, as I have no way of being sure you exist outside my head!)

LoL! For someone who doesn't know anything you sure are concerned with winning and losing. You have no way of knowing you won anything do you? You could have lost the argument and are just thinking you won because THE SIMULATORS want you to think you won. LoL.

LordReed:
This is still incomprehensible and disjointed to say the god loves but is willing to standby by while billions of people suffer over the course of thousands of years but he is waiting for some undetermined day to right all wrong. Meanwhile people continue to suffer and die under horrible circumstances and the god with the power to do something is just watching silently. It makes more sense when you realise there isn't any such god.

First of all, God is not to blame for the way the world is right now.

He created a perfect world. In the beginning there was no sickness or death. There was no evil in the world.

But according to what scriptures teach, our ancestors Adam and Eve are responsible for how the world is today. They determined the course of this world. God gave them a choice. Life or death. They chose death and today we're all paying for it. They introduced evil into the world.

Remember the phrase, 'The sins of the father are paid for by the son'?. That's the phrase that best describes today's reality. We are paying for our parents' error.

As regards why God isn't doing anything this is the answer I'll give. According to what the Bible teaches, God has committed His Work on this earth to Christians. We are His chosen vessels through whom He brings healing, love, salvation, deliverance, shelter and all the good things that today's world lacks. He has entrusted Christians with His Power and we are to represent Him fully here on earth.

Given the number of Christians that are in the world today, if we were of the same caliber as the early Christians, today's world would be different. So the fault lies with us Christians and not with God. Because He has done all that needs to be done. It is now up to Christians to let Him move through us.

FreeIgboho:
This discussion was never focused on him (in fact you are the one who kept writing "Dr. Anil Seth", I never did). I presented a quote that talks blatantly about past lives and your response was that it didn't mean it said supernatural existed.

The clip in question, here's what I wrote about it:
---
He never said that supernatural did not exist. But assuming he did, did you ever ask yourself this: how did he know?!

The relevant thing he said is that we make up "reality" - we don't know it's true nature. Common sense tells you that is true.

1) We have no way if knowing FOR SURE the true nature of reality
2) Therefore we can't know for sure whether a supernatural exists but preponderance of evidence and experiences suggest that it does.
---
Lol. Told u you lost the argument because you refuse to acknowledge the only thing we are sure of - that we aren't sure the true nature of reality - and have no way of being sure! At least I am not sure, as I have no way of knowing if you really exist!

Near1 posted a video of Dr Anil Seth, I responded about Dr Anil Seth, you responded with quotes of Dr Anil Seth but somehow in your solipsistic mind the discourse was not focused on Dr Anil Seth. LMAO!

1. True we approximate reality because our brains and bodies are not capable of absorbing and processing all of the information the universe is presenting at any one time but it doesn't mean we don't know anything, that is absurd. We know what we know and don't know what we don't know to now claim we don't know what we know is a solipsistic trap.
2. We know that no demonstration of supernatural has been conclusively shown. We have been on supernatural beliefs since the dawn of human history yet no one can tell what it is or how it operates. The only approximations you come up with are from fiction. If you want to believe in supernatural go right ahead but don't tell me to believe, show me.

LordReed:
Near1 posted a video of Dr Anil Seth, I responded about Dr Anil Seth, you responded with quotes of Dr Anil Seth but somehow in your solipsistic mind the discourse was not focused on Dr Anil Seth. LMAO!

1. True we approximate reality because our brains and bodies are not capable of absorbing and processing all of the information the universe is presenting at any one time but it doesn't mean we don't know anything, that is absurd. We know what we know and don't know what we don't know to now claim we don't know what we know is a solipsistic trap.
2. We know that no demonstration of supernatural has been conclusively shown. We have been on supernatural beliefs since the dawn of human history yet no one can tell what it is or how it operates. The only approximations you come up with are from fiction. If you want to believe in supernatural go right ahead but don't tell me to believe, show me.

The discussion was existence of supernatural not Seth. I don't see how you are debating that.

1. He actually was wrong. I experience reality as presented to my brain. No approximations.
You are wrong on the other point too. Everything is probabilistic (including all of science that you worship) I said it before, there is nothing I know FOR SURE except that this thought exists (same applies to you if you exist and are like me)

2. The word "conclusively" exposes your biased selectivity. EVERYTHING is probabilistic. You have been presented with all sorts of possible supernatural occurences and skeptical experts who investigated them and became convinced there are more to things than we think. And you are looking for "conclusive" proof!!

LordReed:
LoL! For someone who doesn't know anything you sure are concerned with winning and losing. You have no way of knowing you won anything do you? You could have lost the argument and are just thinking you won because THE SIMULATORS want you to think you won. LoL.

Exactly!! Now you are getting some education! I don't know anything FOR SURE including if I really won this argument. But from all preponderance of evidence I PROBABLY did (assuming I've been arguing with real people)

FreeIgboho:
Exactly!! Now you are getting some education! I don't know anything FOR SURE including if I really won this argument. But from all preponderance of evidence I PROBABLY did (assuming I've been arguing with real people)

No, you aren't arguing with real people, you are arguing with the simulations in your head.

LoL! You are so trapped in your solipsistic dungeon you can't understand sarcasm even when it bites your arse. Bwahahahahahaha!