Faithful007:
You know that Australia has suffered bullying and insults from China. Is it not normal they react to it?

They have been at each others throat, with Australia trying to chew the meat that USA and UK chew with China, there was statement along the line a top Chinese government official made along the line that " people are talking small Australia too is talking" when I find the exact quote I would find it. It's both side doing it, but truly Australia is punching above its weight class.

JOSCOFELIX:
so na china dey give all NATO nation trouble like this. China make nato nation dey fight each other

Australia and France are not part of NATO

Tobiloba24072:


Australia and France are not part of NATO

ok thanks

Tobiloba24072:



They have been at each others throat, with Australia trying to chew the meat that USA and UK chew with China, there was statement along the line a top Chinese government official made along the line that " people are talking small Australia too is talking" when I find the exact quote I would find it. It's both side doing it, but truly Australia is punching above its weight class.

China has been the one growing it's influence and trying to subdue Democratic countries in the region that present a sizable threat. Take South China Sea for example. Australia is simply responding as a normal country would. To have adequate defense against China's threats.

Xbee007:

Australians went for the better deal. France was going to provide them with diesel powered subs while Americans nuclear powered. By the way, America seriously need to keep the military industrial complex alive especially now that they have pulled out of Afghanistan.

doubt that was the reason since diesel electric subs are much cheaper to maintain and except for endurance DE subs actually offer a lot of advantages over nuclear subs especially DE subs fitted with aip

Faithful007:
China has been the one growing it's influence and trying to subdue Democratic countries in the region that present a sizable threat. Take South China Sea for example. Australia is simply responding as a normal country would. To have adequate defense against China's threats.

Australia is too far away from China, China is influencing its regional block, not Australia , in fact what's funny about the issue, is that financially China is more relevant to Australia, than even USA. What USA and Australia really have is basically language, 40% of Australians export is to China.

jl115:
doubt that was the reason since diesel electric subs are much cheaper to maintain and except for endurance DE subs actually offer a lot of advantages over nuclear subs especially DE subs fitted with aip

Diesel electric are usually more quiet than nuclear when running in batteries, but it doesn't have the endurance and power a nuclear submarine has, and power is needed when you lunch and to power computing devices of ballistic missiles.

Tobiloba24072:


Australia is too far away from China, China is influencing its regional block, not Australia , in fact what's funny about the issue, is that financially China is more relevant to Australia, than even USA. What USA and Australia really have is basically language, 40% of Australians export is to China.

Australia is not really far from China. And yes, the reason for their problems is China's growing influence.

Also you seem to underrate language and overrate economy. What makes countries strong allies, is not economy and trade but rather shared systems of governance, ideology and culture. No matter what Australia is gaining from China, they would always support the western point of view on almost every issue.

Faithful007:
Australia is not really far from China. And yes, the reason for their problems is China's growing influence.

Also you seem to underrate language and overrate economy. What makes countries strong allies, is not economy and trade but rather shared systems of governance, ideology and culture. No matter what Australia is gaining from China, they would always support the western point of view on almost every issue.

Australia is just doing the same things, the Indians are doing....massaging the ego of the west, and using their fear of China growing bigger than the west, for their own gain, it just classic international politics....a new world order is written, a mini cold war .
The distance of China to UK, is almost the same as China to Australia....
The most farthest country to China, in the China sea, isn't even more than 3500km.

Tobiloba24072:



Diesel electric are usually more quiet than nuclear when running in batteries, but it doesn't have the endurance and power a nuclear submarine has, and power is needed when you lunch and to power computing devices of ballistic missiles.

there are nuclear armed de subs and the US has actually purchased nuclear armed DE subs instead of nuclear powered subs lately

jl115:
there are nuclear armed de subs and the US has actually purchased nuclear armed DE subs instead of nuclear powered subs lately

Name 1? The USA that is almost nuclear exclusive for all it's submarines, if not all .
Even USA surface fleets have started going nuclear powered.

Tobiloba24072:


Australia and France are not part of NATO

France is a NATO member, Australia isn't.

kabe1:


France is a NATO member, Australia isn't.

Oga use Google, France used to be part of NATO, they opted out, that's one if the reasons dey don't use de-facto NATO standard equipments.....but they still remain a major NATO ally.

Tobiloba24072:


Name 1? The USA that is almost nuclear exclusive for all it's submarines, if not all .
Even USA surface fleets have started going nuclear powered.

my mistake meant to say they were advised to purchase de subs

Nuclear armed DE Subs:
Dolphin class (Israel)
Qing-class(China)
Kilo class(Russia)
To name a few

Tobiloba24072:



Oga use Google, France used to be part of NATO, they opted out, that's one if the reasons dey don't use de-facto NATO standard equipments.....but they still remain a major NATO ally.

France is still very much part of Nato

Tobiloba24072:



Oga use Google, France used to be part of NATO, they opted out, that's one if the reasons dey don't use de-facto NATO standard equipments.....but they still remain a major NATO ally.

French president Charles de Gaulle downgraded France's membership in NATO and withdrew France from the U.S.-led military command to pursue an independent defense system.[2] However, the twenty-year rule prevented France from completely leaving NATO altogether.

Where did they withdraw bros?

jl115:
my mistake meant to say they were advised to purchase de subs

Nuclear armed DE Subs:
Dolphin class (Israel)
Qing-class(China)
Kilo class(Russia)
To name a few

Apparently you think every missile a sea faring military vessel fires is nuclear capable, not of this ships fire nuclear missiles, the fire cruise, anti shipping missiles, some of the kilo variant fire surface to air.

Tobiloba24072:



Oga use Google, France used to be part of [/b]NATO, they opted out, that's one if the reasons dey don't use de-facto NATO standard equipments.....but they still remain a major NATO ally.

[b]This changed in 2009 when president Nicolas Sarkozy changed course and returned France to full participation, and the French Parliament backed this decision with a vote of confidence.[4]


But why don't some people do basic research?

kabe1:


French president Charles de Gaulle downgraded France's membership in NATO and withdrew France from the U.S.-led military command to pursue an independent defense system.[2] However, the twenty-year rule prevented France from completely leaving NATO altogether.

Where did they withdraw bros?

Apparently they rejoined NATO in 2009.

Tobiloba24072:


Apparently you think every missile a sea faring military vessel fires is nuclear capable, not of this ships fire nuclear missiles, the fire cruise, anti shipping missiles, some of the kilo variant fire surface to air.

and you think that nuclear missiles are different to cruise missiles when in fact its just the warhead which is different

Tobiloba24072:


Apparently they rejoined NATO in 2009.

They never withdrew.

Stop arguing pointlessly.

jl115:
and you think that nuclear missiles are different to cruise missiles when in fact its just the warhead which is different

Baba go and put nuclear warhead on our exocet and oto melara missiles, let's see how it goes.

kabe1:


They never withdrew.

Stop arguing pointlessly.

Abi, it's in what I posted after research that they returned to NATO in 2009...I became educated that they returned, you too be educated they left at a certain time.

Tobiloba24072:



Baba go and put nuclear warhead on our exocet and oto melara missiles, let's see how it goes.

smh....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/how-israels-secretive-submarines-simulates-strikes-2021-6%3famp

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-israels-super-dolphin-class-submarine-armed-nukes-42652?amp

Tobiloba24072:


Abi, it's in what I posted after research that they returned to NATO in 2009...I became educated that they returned, you too be educated they left at a certain time.

They downgraded bro. They didn't leave entirely, all the same I see the larger point you are trying to make.

The French have conducted independent military adventurism outside the US, case in point Mali.

kabe1:


They never withdrew.

Stop arguing pointlessly.

jl115:
smh....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/how-israels-secretive-submarines-simulates-strikes-2021-6%3famp

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-israels-super-dolphin-class-submarine-armed-nukes-42652?amp

First of all national interest is not known to be reliable, if you follow them, before Yahoo stopped comment in Yahoo News , you will pick holes on their stories steadily, in fact national interest and a few other think tanks, that made Yahoo news stop comments, because Yahoo news was steadily quoted as been inaccurate, the second link you gave, didn't give a definitive answer , but merely speculated .
And anything concerning Israel is always filled with speculation, but if the germans who gave Israel the technology and built that submarine doesn't fire nuclear weapons from theirs, and are not pro-nuclear weapon spread, it just makes the scale tip the more towards, their submarine doesn't fire nuclear weapons.
Apart from that the Israeli version are downgraded export version .

Tobiloba24072:



Australia is just doing the same things, the Indians are doing....massaging the ego of the west, and using their fear of China growing bigger than the west, for their own gain, it just classic international politics....a new world order is written, a mini cold war .
The distance of China to UK, is almost the same as China to Australia....
The most farthest country to China, in the China sea, isn't even more than 3500km.

Nobody is merely massaging another's ego. Once there's shared interest and values, automatically there would be shared support.

Also, India is not as allied to the west as you might think. In fact they are kind of closer to Russia than the US. Beyond that, India is focused on carving out a niche for itself as a global superpower and not just allied with one, same with Brazil.

jl115:
and you think that nuclear missiles are different to cruise missiles when in fact its just the warhead which is different

Of course they are. Nuclear missiles are usually BMs

Faithful007:
Nobody is merely massaging another's ego. Once there's shared interest and values, automatically there would be shared support.

Also, India is not as allied to the west as you might think. In fact they are kind of closer to Russia than the US. Beyond that, India is focused on carving out a niche for itself as a global superpower and not just allied with one, same with Brazil.

Look at all the new aircrafts India is importing for both it's navy and airforce, you will see the shift is going west, the USA is even selling an advanced f16 version using 5th generation technology called f21 to india, that they refused to sell to other countries.

jl115:
smh....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/how-israels-secretive-submarines-simulates-strikes-2021-6%3famp

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/meet-israels-super-dolphin-class-submarine-armed-nukes-42652?amp

Lol.

Israel always likes to employ psychological warfare. They keep fanning speculation so the public will believe they have something they may actually not possess.

Tobiloba24072:



Look at all the new aircrafts India is importing for both it's navy and airforce, you will see the shift is going west, the USA is even selling an advanced f16 version using 5th generation technology called f21 to india, that they refused to sell to other countries.

Yeah.

The US is infatuated with India. It will be a big plus if India can bend, because it might be like having another UK, this time on China's door. But India is not as malleable as you might think. They know India wants something of their own, something special. That's why they offered the jets with assembly in India. yet nothing has happened.

BTW, it's not as if any one asked for the jet in the first place.