₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Okay, I agree with your points.

Love is what binds true believers as One {John 13:34-35} this can't be possible if our understanding of God's word contradicts, that's why Satan is promoting difference in understanding so that a religionist from Deeperlife will strongly hold that alcoholic drinks and make-up for women is sin while someone attending Christ Embassy or Cele or C & S will disagree yet all of them will claim they're the body of Christ who is a strong advocate of oneness in thought! Matthew 12:46-50

Without oneness in thought regarding faith there's no way LOVE can reign! Romans 15:5-6; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3

So how is Satan promoting confusion?
Well it's by making each person think he is OK after reading the Bible but what about the understanding? Is it not the same Bible that over 41,000 sects are READING? Then why the contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines?
Well it's because the understanding is what really matters not the reading, no wonder Paul said the letter kills but the spirit is what gives life {2Corinthians 3:6} and what is the spirit here? It's what makes people from different races throughout the earth agree on the same line of thought! John 17:22 compare to John 4:24

Please feel free to ask for the SYMBOLIC TERM you will like to know it's meaning after these first three!

Lazarus: The common Jews who knew only what the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis told them. They're like beggars going to the gates of the rich man (Jewish religious leaders) desiring to feed on the crumbs (whatever the Rabbis agreed to tell them) falling out of the tables (doctrines of the Rabbis) at the gates {anywhere they can find a Rabbi)

Rich man clothed in purple: Jewish Rabbis who are also the rulers. Purple is the official royal colour of monarchs back then. They have all the scriptures in their head (rich symbolically) but will only dish out what they know will not fire back at them so that they will continue as the rulers of the people.


Sours in Lazarus's body: Rejection of the nation several times leading to their being dominated by pagan nations like Babylon and Rome who are like dogs taking advantage of the sours in Lazarus's body.

Feel free to ask for other symbolic terms in the parable!

TenQ:
I think it's a question of two things
1. How far the person was gone. (Was the person just left in limbo or fetched).
2. Ability to recall the experience as I don't think it is different from having a dream except that it looks/feel more real (some people routinely forget their dream experiences).

The fact that they happen to a significant number of people who have flat lined is the key thing. I've heard a report where a blast Nd woman reported similar stories with the sighted. The most striking for me is when the "dead" is able to witness what was happening at the point of death in the physical (like what the doctors/medics were doing and report of events at the point of death)

Here is a NON Christian influenced NDE for your perusal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btacKoGvVtM

1. What do you mean by limbo or fetched?

2. Why would an objectively existing thing be dream like? And why is recall quality the same as a dream recall?

Everybody dreams so what is the difference between these NDEs and a dream since the NDEs are more like dreams than reality?

I don't think being unconscious precludes you from receiving sensory input. For example when we are asleep we still receive sensory input from our environment even visual on occasion.

LordReed:
1. What do you mean by limbo or fetched?

It just simply means without a scene experience. Fetched means being directed to a new scenery

LordReed:
2. Why would an objectively existing thing be dream like? And why is recall quality the same as a dream recall?

Simply because you WAKE UP from the state of physical unconsciousness. Every experience during that state may be like waking from a dream because the scenery is completely different from what is normally obtainable

LordReed:
Everybody dreams so what is the difference between these NDEs and a dream since the NDEs are more like dreams than reality?

It has been scientifically proven that they occur when there is no electrical activity of the brain. Dreams involve electrical activities culminating in REM state with movement of the eyeballs

LordReed:
I don't think being unconscious precludes you from receiving sensory input. For example when we are asleep we still receive sensory input from our environment even visual on occasion.

The brain is still very much the active giver of dreams. Even animals seem to have dreams


Did you watch the video?
What's your impression?

MaxInDHouse:
Please feel free to ask for the SYMBOLIC TERM you will like to know it's meaning after these first three!

Lazarus: The common Jews who knew only what the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis told them. They're like beggars going to the gates of the rich man (Jewish religious leaders) desiring to feed on the crumbs (whatever the Rabbis agreed to tell them) falling out of the tables (doctrines of the Rabbis) at the gates {anywhere they can find a Rabbi)

Rich man clothed in purple: Jewish Rabbis who are also the rulers. Purple is the official royal colour of monarchs back then. They have all the scriptures in their head (rich symbolically) but will only dish out what they know will not fire back at them so that they will continue as the rulers of the people.


Sours in Lazarus's body: Rejection of the nation several times leading to their being dominated by pagan nations like Babylon and Rome who are like dogs taking advantage of the sours in Lazarus's body.

Feel free to ask for other symbolic terms in the parable!

Thanks for these
How about the Rich man's brothers especially in relation to the Prophets they were supposed to have with them?

What also is the significance of the TORMENT experienced by the rich man in relation to the impossible Gulf of separation between Lazarus and the Rich man?

TenQ:
Thanks for these
How about the Rich man's brothers especially in relation to the Prophets they were supposed to have with them?

All thanks goes to JEHOVAH our God who promised to help us unravel sacred secrets by means of His active force (Holy Spirit) John 16:12-13
The rich man is the Jewish religious leaders who are disguising as workers in God's spiritual vineyard but indirectly they're working for Satan. Their brothers are generations of suchlike ones who will continue with that same attitude. God will not perform anything spectacular to warn false religious leaders rather in generations afterward, they will only have true servants of God who are doing the right thing so if they decide to pitch their tents against the true servants of God the only sign honest hearted individuals will notice is that God's servants will always stand out not having anything to do with false religious leaders who are deceiving themselves with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines yet claiming they belong to the same God!

TenQ:
What also is the significance of the TORMENT experienced by the rich man in relation to the impossible Gulf of separation between Lazarus and the Rich man?

False religious leaders will always feel tormented each time true disciples of Christ open their mouth to preach and teach {Act 4:18; 5:28} that's why they will tell their followers not to listen to whatever Jesus' true disciples are saying because the truth always expose them as followers of worldly politicians. When false religionists are talking they may pretend by singing and praying together but when you look closely into their doctrines you will see clearly that they're not for the same spirit. Act 23:6-9
Only true believers have the same line of thought throughout the earth because what they're preaching and teaching is the truth. Others are deceivers that's why they'll welcome different ideas so far the one bringing it doesn't say anything against their teachings. So false religionists and their leaders will always feel bad and they will not like to hear the true disciples of Christ talk in any gathering due to the TORMENT the truth unleash on them!

MaxInDHouse:
All thanks goes to JEHOVAH our God who promised to help us unravel sacred secrets by means of His active force (Holy Spirit) John 16:12-13
The rich man is the Jewish religious leaders who are disguising as workers in God's spiritual vineyard but indirectly they're working for Satan. Their brothers are generations of suchlike ones who will continue with that same attitude. God will not perform anything spectacular to warn false religious leaders rather in generations afterward, they will only have true servants of God who are doing the right thing so if they decide to pitch their tents against the true servants of God the only sign honest hearted individuals will notice is that God's servants will always stand out not having anything to do with false religious leaders who are deceiving themselves with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines yet claiming they belong to the same God!

False religious leaders will always feel tormented each time true disciples of Christ open their mouth to preach and teach {Act 4:18; 5:28} that's why they will tell their followers not to listen to whatever Jesus' true disciples are saying because the truth always expose them as followers of worldly politicians. When false religionists are talking they may pretend by singing and praying together but when you look closely into their doctrines you will see clearly that they're not for the same spirit. Act 23:6-9
Only true believers have the same line of thought throughout the earth because what they're preaching and teaching is the truth. Others are deceivers that's why they'll welcome different ideas so far the one bringing it doesn't say anything against their teachings. So false religionists and their leaders will always feel bad and they will not like to hear the true disciples of Christ talk in any gathering due to the TORMENT the truth unleash on them!

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.

If I get you correctly, the Rich man symbolise the Religious Leaders of Israel. If this is the case, what caused their change of mind enough to desire that followers do not experience what they are experiencing. When was this their repentance (so to speak ) activated? Did they repent during the time of Christ?

The GULF seem like an impossibility of the Religious Leaders (Rich man) becoming like Lazarus. Is it that they are doomed for being religious leaders?

Finally, what is "THIS PLACE OF TORMENT" as reported by the Rich Man (he obviously didn't want his brothers to come to the same place)?

Thank you

TenQ:
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.
If I get you correctly, the Rich man symbolise the Religious Leaders of Israel. If this is the case, what caused their change of mind enough to desire that followers do not experience what they are experiencing. When was this their repentance (so to speak ) activated? Did they repent during the time of Christ?

It's not a literal event but parable so it simply means each generation of false religious leaders coming after them will not like to bear the same title they bear. That's why you can't see any religion today even in Israel where the leaders are called Pharisees, Sadducees or Scribes. Only Rabbis which means teachers of God's word.
In each next generation of faithless religious leaders they will continue to change their titles to fit in so that unsuspecting interested ones will easily be ensnared {2 Corinthians 11:14-15; Matthew 24:24} today the Pharisees are here and what is most important to them? It's their religious titles which they want everyone to use in calling them {Matthew 23:8-10} with the last breath in them they're prepared to protect these religious titles, so don't be surprised when they are addressed as Pastor, Bishop, Reverend, Pope, Father, Apostle and so on. They will not yield the same positive results as those who were known by those offices in the past rather it's the fruitage of past faithless religious leaders like Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes that you'll see in their works! Matthew 7:16-18
So they are not repenting in a literal sense but dodging from the usual titles of those who have the same attitude in past generation!

TenQ:
The GULF seem like an impossibility of the Religious Leaders (Rich man) becoming like Lazarus. Is it that they are doomed for being religious leaders?

NO! The chasm simply means what each person cherishes most. Faithless religionists cherishes worldly material possessions while faithful people are only interested in having a good standing with God no matter the condition they fine themselves. Matthew 6:24
So with what each person takes as paramount in life it becomes impossible for someone in one side to cross to the other. Matthew 7:13-14
Faithful people will be prepared to die for their faith while faithless people will be prepared to let go of the truth to keep worldly riches! Luke 18:18-23

TenQ:
Finally, what is "THIS PLACE OF TORMENT" as reported by the Rich Man (he obviously didn't want his brothers to come to the same place)?
Thank you

The torment symbolizes agonizing pains in their hearts as they're seeing people who never attended their rabbinical schools of thought (seminary schools) preaching and teaching with efficacy! Act 4:13
For instance i was a Muslim before i became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, the first time my cousin who has been a pastor in RCCG tried to argue with me i had only spend 3 months studying with the JWs. He felt so threatened before the whole family as i was opening the scriptures and explaining with efficacy.
That was when i first understood what it means to be tormented within because he can't just understand how someone like me whom he has know all his life as a Muslim suddenly became a strong advocate of Christ using the Bible as if i'm part of the writers!

In fact he almost hit me when he asked "how come you're this good in using the scriptures to support everything you're saying just within 3 months with Jehovah's Witnesses?" When i quoted the Bible book of Luke 12:11-12!

Can you imagine that they all brought me before the whole family back then i was just 25 years old, those claiming Muslims, Christians even the Traditionalists all wanted to convince me that i've left the truth!
Now think of how tormented my cousin who is almost 40 and a branch pastor with RCCG for many years could feel in such a gathering when his efforts to convince me that leaving Islam for Christ is bad simply because i am studying with JWs who have so much equipped me with God's word! 2Timothy 3:16-17

Well i wish you were present that day you will see what torment for false religionists really meant!

TenQ:
Here is a NON Christian influenced NDE for your perusal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btacKoGvVtM

Do you consider this evidence of an afterlife? So an atheist will go to heaven even without believing in the god? Or an abusive parent will go to heaven and be the one to welcome the child he abused?

My personal opinion of this is, this man had a profound experience which has left an indelible mark on his psyche but it is not evidence of an afterlife.

LordReed:
Do you consider this evidence of an afterlife? So an atheist will go to heaven even without believing in the god? Or an abusive parent will go to heaven and be the one to welcome the child he abused?

My personal opinion of this is, this man had a profound experience which has left an indelible mark on his psyche but it is not evidence of an afterlife.

Interestingly,
1. It's not an evidence of the Christian God or any other God/god
2. It however shows that life seems to be able to survive death
3. He was neither in heaven nor hell as well as his father
4. When he woke up, the experience was too real enough to affect his views about life and death.
5. It is scientifically impossible that from his out of body experience, that he'll be able to describe what the doctors were doing to resuscitate him.

Atheists may need to find an explanation to explain away this man's story. I'm not sure he is now a Christian but I'm sure he doesn't believe that death is annihilation.

Finally, I think that dying and the differences in NDE can be likened to a person coming to the planet earth for the first time. His experience depend on WHERE on earth he landed in. I'm sure you'll agree with me that a first timers experience in Sahara desert or Alaska in the North pole, New York city or Sambisa Village, North Korea or South Korea would be different even though it's the same earth. A day on earth isn't even enough to get to one's final destination whatever the initial landing spot is

MaxInDHouse:
It's not a literal event but parable so it simply means each generation of false religious leaders coming after them will not like to bear the same title they bear. That's why you can't see any religion today even in Israel where the leaders are called Pharisees, Sadducees or Scribes. Only Rabbis which means teachers of God's word.
In each next generation of faithless religious leaders they will continue to change their titles to fit in so that unsuspecting interested ones will easily be ensnared {2 Corinthians 11:14-15; Matthew 24:24} today the Pharisees are here and what is most important to them? It's their religious titles which they want everyone to use in calling them {Matthew 23:8-10} with the last breath in them they're prepared to protect these religious titles, so don't be surprised when they are addressed as Pastor, Bishop, Reverend, Pope, Father, Apostle and so on. They will not yield the same positive results as those who were known by those offices in the past rather it's the fruitage of past faithless religious leaders like Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes that you'll see in their works! Matthew 7:16-18
So they are not repenting in a literal sense but dodging from the usual titles of those who have the same attitude in past generation!

NO! The chasm simply means what each person cherishes most. Faithless religionists cherishes worldly material possessions while faithful people are only interested in having a good standing with God no matter the condition they fine themselves. Matthew 6:24
So with what each person takes as paramount in life it becomes impossible for someone in one side to cross to the other. Matthew 7:13-14
Faithful people will be prepared to die for their faith while faithless people will be prepared to let go of the truth to keep worldly riches! Luke 18:18-23

The torment symbolizes agonizing pains in their hearts as they're seeing people who never attended their rabbinical schools of thought (seminary schools) preaching and teaching with efficacy! Act 4:13
For instance i was a Muslim before i became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, the first time my cousin who has been a pastor in RCCG tried to argue with me i had only spend 3 months studying with the JWs. He felt so threatened before the whole family as i was opening the scriptures and explaining with efficacy.
That was when i first understood what it means to be tormented within because he can't just understand how someone like me whom he has know all his life as a Muslim suddenly became a strong advocate of Christ using the Bible as if i'm part of the writers!

In fact he almost hit me when he asked "how come you're this good in using the scriptures to support everything you're saying just within 3 months with Jehovah's Witnesses?" When i quoted the Bible book of Luke 12:11-12!

Can you imagine that they all brought me before the whole family back then i was just 25 years old, those claiming Muslims, Christians even the Traditionalists all wanted to convince me that i've left the truth!
Now think of how tormented my cousin who is almost 40 and a branch pastor with RCCG for many years could feel in such a gathering when his efforts to convince me that leaving Islam for Christ is bad simply because i am studying with JWs who have so much equipped me with God's word! 2Timothy 3:16-17

Well i wish you were present that day you will see what torment for false religionists really meant!

I appreciate your patience, however I can't say I fully understand your explanations with respect to this parable because it seemed that the Rich man's had learnt a bitter lesson for which he dosen't want his brothers to repeat. He didn't even plead for himself.

He passionately begged Father Abraham to send someone if possible from the dead to preach to his brothers so that they won't make his mistakes.

What are the current spiritual leaders of this world doing to show that they do not want their members from falling into their kind of errors?

TenQ:
I appreciate your patience, however I can't say I fully understand your explanations with respect to this parable because it seemed that the Rich man's had learnt a bitter lesson for which he dosen't want his brothers to repeat. He didn't even plead for himself.

He passionately begged Father Abraham to send someone if possible from the dead to preach to his brothers so that they won't make his mistakes.

What are the current spiritual leaders of this world doing to show that they do not want their members from falling into their kind of errors?

That's the way parable is interpreted.
Remember that Jesus was talking about the Pharisees who are still alive standing right there. So it's about how they are feeling inside for instance they asked Jesus to perform a sign before they can believe that he is truly the Christ God sent to them.
Please what other sign do you think Jesus can perform to convince those stiff-necked people? So it's not about signs but they just want God to come down and speak to them face to face before they agree!

As for the modern day Pharisees they know very well that they have no business whatsoever with God but just as the first century Jewish leaders they're prepared to face God's wrath after all it will not be in the presence of their deceived followers! Matthew 27:25

I also once passed out everything was gross darkness for three hours...doctors worked on me till i came back to life,years later when i gave my life to Christ,i can tell you i know what it feels like for someone to die,i was in ikeja going back home instantly it seems as if everything around me has vanished,the peace of Christ was in my heart..it literally seems as if i was walking a golden path to heaven,...so i understand that some people will go to hell and some heaven...some weaks ago,devils came into my room but night and where pulling my spirit out of my body...i was seeing my physical body until a bigger hand pushed me back into my body before i now woke up..

TenQ:
1. The scripture in Ecclesiastes did not discriminate between the righteous and the ungodly.
2. Simple comprehension shows the frame of reference "UNDER THE SUN"!

But then, why would Jesus speak a parable completely negating this. (Lazarus, Rich man, Rich man's brothers )

yeah exactly

FuckYouPorn:
you were in a coma.
You were not literally dead

Blessedofchrist:
I also once passed out everything was gross darkness for three hours...doctors worked on me till i came back to life,years later when i gave my life to Christ,i can tell you i know what it feels like for someone to die,i was in ikeja going back home instantly it seems as if everything around me has vanished,the peace of Christ was in my heart..it literally seems as if i was walking a golden path to heaven,...so i understand that some people will go to hell and some heaven...some weaks ago,devils came into my room but night and where pulling my spirit out of my body...i was seeing my physical body until a bigger hand pushed me back into my body before i now woke up..

It is certain that there exists Life after this Life and the crossing point is death.

NDEs are different. Some is blank and others are deep and profound. But the important thing is that a man should take care of his eternal future.

2Cor 4:18:
"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

Shalom

MaxInDHouse:
That's the way parable is interpreted.
Remember that Jesus was talking about the Pharisees who are still alive standing right there. So it's about how they are feeling inside for instance they asked Jesus to perform a sign before they can believe that he is truly the Christ God sent to them.
Please what other sign do you think Jesus can perform to convince those stiff-necked people? So it's not about signs but they just want God to come down and speak to them face to face before they agree!

As for the modern day Pharisees they know very well that they have no business whatsoever with God but just as the first century Jewish leaders they're prepared to face God's wrath after all it will not be in the presence of their deceived followers! Matthew 27:25

What are the so-called modern day Pharisees doing to show that
1. They accept the punishment given out to them and
2. They don't want their followers to have the same kind of punishment

Thanks

TenQ:
What are the so-called modern day Pharisees doing to show that
1. They accept the punishment given out to them and
2. They don't want their followers to have the same kind of punishment

Thanks

They are showing it but their followers are blind!
How do you think they're doing buying houses in different places in their personal names, private jets and all the things the world can offer yet their followers are thinking heaven is the goal!

They are showing it through their actions but their followers are blind because they also love deceit! 2Timothy 3:13

MaxInDHouse:
They are showing it but their followers are blind!
How do you think they're doing buying houses in different places in their personal names, private jets and all the things the world can offer yet their followers are thinking heaven is the goal!

They are showing it through their actions but their followers are blind because they also love deceit! 2Timothy 3:13

The rich man was sincere about his brothers hearing the TRUE message not their warped kind. He wouldn't even mind if Lazarus went down to preach. This is at variance with those flouting their wealth. It would even make a slight sense if they give out ALL their wealth. Flouting of wealth has nothing to do with the kingdom of God

TenQ:
The rich man was sincere about his brothers hearing the TRUE message not their warped kind. He wouldn't even mind if Lazarus went down to preach. This is at variance with those flouting their wealth. It would even make a slight sense if they give out ALL their wealth. Flouting of wealth has nothing to do with the kingdom of God

The rich man has lost it but his brothers who are also putting riches as first thing needed to be warned. God will not perform a single sign to do that. Jehovah's Witnesses are ready do whatever our God say as long as we are convinced that it's benefitial, we aren't expecting any sign before we believe in our God.
False religionists are looking for riches and material possessions before they can be convinced that they're blessed.
Well the riches we are talking here is not real but what they made the priority in their lives so even when their members don't have it like their religious leaders riches is what makes them feel accomplished not the doing of God's will!

LordReed:
All human babies when they are born, irrespective of skin colour or circumstances of their birth or whether their parents are rich or poor, they must breathe oxygen. There are facts about this life that are incontrovertible and must be experienced as a baseline by all living humans. To suggest that there is no baseline from which all so called afterlife can be experienced is more than an obvious dodge.

The two plants in the same place planted same day don't grow the same way both give out oxygen and take in CO2. Doesn't stop them from being different in other aspects. Don't know if that or different DNAs, blood groups, body temperature and blood pressure count as dodges for you, they are the obvious reality of life.

MaxInDHouse:
The rich man has lost it but his brothers who are also putting riches as first thing needed to be warned. God will not perform a single sign to do that. Jehovah's Witnesses are ready do whatever our God say as long as we are convinced that it's benefitial, we aren't expecting any sign before we believe in our God.
False religionists are looking for riches and material possessions before they can be convinced that they're blessed.
Well the riches we are talking here is not real but what they made the priority in their lives so even when their members don't have it like their religious leaders riches is what makes them feel accomplished not the doing of God's will!

Do you think all non JW are about money and wealth?
Do you think all non JW are about miracles before faith and duty in righteousness?

The JW organisation is just one of the hundreds of sects within the Christian denomination.
Are other "Unitarians" other than JW also wrong?

TenQ:
Do you think all non JW are about money and wealth?
Do you think all non JW are about miracles before faith and duty in righteousness?

The JW organisation is just one of the hundreds of sects within the Christian denomination.
Are other "Unitarians" other than JW also wrong?

Jesus is the WAY the TRUTH and LIFE, no one comes to the true God if such a person have nothing to do with Jesus. John 14:6
So let's consider those three symbolic terms then we can both meditate thoroughly to see if there is any other group practicing what Jesus taught apart from Jehovah's Witnesses.

The WAY: Jesus is the one and only person who know how we can worship his father acceptably {Matthew 11:27} therefore there's no ideology or opinion anyone raise so far Jesus didn't say it such idea will not yield any positive results in the gathering of those putting it into practice. John 15:5

The TRUTH: There are many deeds of God's servants we read in the Old Testament but when Jesus say it's wrong then we must drop whatever those people prior to his time practiced. We must remember that God never introduced any of them to us as His son to whom we must listen! Matthew 17:5

The LIFE: Everlasting life wasn't promised to anyone through anybody except the name of Jesus Christ {John 3:16} so whoever wants to have everlasting life must exert himself vigorously to stick to Jesus' teachings!

Now let's see if there is any other group doing these!

The only thing Jesus made a priority in his life after his baptism is the PREACHING and TEACHING work. Everyone back then knew Jesus as the guy who always go from house to house and door to door preaching and teaching people anywhere he could find them.
Now ask yourself which religion do you know that throughout the world people know their group as preachers from house to house and door to door? Matthew 5:13-16
Well i'm above 50 years of age today and the only group i know doing this incessantly are Jehovah's Witnesses!

When talking about the pursuit of riches many people can go for any career like music, sports, modeling and film industry where they will become celebrities in the society.
The problem here is their faces will be known everywhere so with the prominence they can't serve under Jesus whose followers must go out knocking on people's doors (uninvited) to preach and teach {Luke 18:18-23} so Jehovah's Witnesses don't encourage their youths to go into such careers because the prestige and fame will hinder them from accomplishing their ministry as disciples of Christ!

When it comes to LIFE Jesus cherishes the life of humans so much that he's ready to destroy thousands of animals just to save one human soul {Luke 8:26-34 compare to Luke 12:7} now ask yourself which of all the religions claiming Christians are ready to forgo anything instead of carrying weapons to kill their fellowman just to procure material possessions?
Well i know just one group whose will is to help even those seeking their lives gain the accurate knowledge of God instead of supporting racial disputes or military services to kill {Matthew 5:43-48} they are Jehovah's Witnesses!

So when people say they're not materialistic it's easy to say and preach to woo gullible followers but it's by WORKS that everyone can SEE not just a mouthing issue! Matthew 7:21-23

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is the WAY the TRUTH and LIFE, no one comes to the true God if such a person have nothing to do with Jesus. John 14:6
So let's consider those three symbolic terms then we can both meditate thoroughly to see if there is any other group practicing what Jesus taught apart from Jehovah's Witnesses.

The WAY: Jesus is the one and only person who know how we can worship his father acceptably {Matthew 11:27} therefore there's no ideology or opinion anyone raise so far Jesus didn't say it such idea will not yield any positive results in the gathering of those putting it into practice. John 15:5

The TRUTH: There are many deeds of God's servants we read in the Old Testament but when Jesus say it's wrong then we must drop whatever those people prior to his time practiced. We must remember that God never introduced any of them to us as His son to whom we must listen! Matthew 17:5

The LIFE: Everlasting life wasn't promised to anyone through anybody except the name of Jesus Christ {John 3:16} so whoever wants to have everlasting life must exert himself vigorously to stick to Jesus' teachings!

Now let's see if there is any other group doing these!

The only thing Jesus made a priority in his life after his baptism is the PREACHING and TEACHING work. Everyone back then knew Jesus as the guy who always go from house to house and door to door preaching and teaching people anywhere he could find them.
Now ask yourself which religion do you know that throughout the world people know their group as preachers from house to house and door to door? Matthew 5:13-16
Well i'm above 50 years of age today and the only group i know doing this incessantly are Jehovah's Witnesses!

When talking about the pursuit of riches many people can go for any career like music, sports, modeling and film industry where they will become celebrities in the society.
The problem here is their faces will be known everywhere so with the prominence they can't serve under Jesus whose followers must go out knocking on people's doors (uninvited) to preach and teach {Luke 18:18-23} so Jehovah's Witnesses don't encourage their youths to go into such careers because the prestige and fame will hinder them from accomplishing their ministry as disciples of Christ!

When it comes to LIFE Jesus cherishes the life of humans so much that he's ready to destroy thousands of animals just to save one human soul {Luke 8:26-34 compare to Luke 12:7} now ask yourself which of all the religions claiming Christians are ready to forgo anything instead of carrying weapons to kill their fellowman just to procure material possessions?
Well i know just one group whose will is to help even those seeking their lives gain the accurate knowledge of God instead of supporting racial disputes or military services to kill {Matthew 5:43-48} they are Jehovah's Witnesses!

So when people say they're not materialistic it's easy to say and preach to woo gullible followers but it's by WORKS that everyone can SEE not just a mouthing issue! Matthew 7:21-23

I remember a time when a prophet was too sure he was the only one who hasn't bowed down to Baal!
The answer of God shocked him

1Kin 19:18:
"Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth which has not kissed him."

TenQ:
I remember a time when a prophet was too sure he was the only one who hasn't bowed down to Baal!
The answer of God shocked him

1Kin 19:18:
"Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth which has not kissed him."

You missed the import of what you're quoting my friend, back then Elijah thought it was only him that remained in the northern part of Israel as a worshiper of the true God.
But what i'm saying now is just what the true God told the world back then "Israel is my people" not "Elijah is my only worshiper"
So don't get it twisted my friend, i am not the only worshiper of my God rather i have millions of brothers and sisters in America, Asia, Europe, Africa and Australia worshiping my God in Spirit and Truth, they are Jehovah's Witnesses, we all have the same line of thought globally. So in contact to what you're quoting worshipers of my own God are throughout the world today but they are all in just one big and happy family of peace loving group of worshipers known as Jehovah's Witnesses!

TenQ:
Interestingly,
1. It's not an evidence of the Christian God or any other God/god
2. It however shows that life seems to be able to survive death
3. He was neither in heaven nor hell as well as his father
4. When he woke up, the experience was too real enough to affect his views about life and death.
5. It is scientifically impossible that from his out of body experience, that he'll be able to describe what the doctors were doing to resuscitate him.

Atheists may need to find an explanation to explain away this man's story. I'm not sure he is now a Christian but I'm sure he doesn't believe that death is annihilation.

Finally, I think that dying and the differences in NDE can be likened to a person coming to the planet earth for the first time. His experience depend on WHERE on earth he landed in. I'm sure you'll agree with me that a first timers experience in Sahara desert or Alaska in the North pole, New York city or Sambisa Village, North Korea or South Korea would be different even though it's the same earth. A day on earth isn't even enough to get to one's final destination whatever the initial landing spot is

There is no need to explain away the man's experience. He had a profound experience is all that can be said with any kind of certainty. It is however simply not evidence for an afterlife, mostly because it is not consistent with any other experience nor can it be independently verified in any way.

Image123:
The two plants in the same place planted same day don't grow the same way both give out oxygen and take in CO2. Doesn't stop them from being different in other aspects. Don't know if that or different DNAs, blood groups, body temperature and blood pressure count as dodges for you, they are the obvious reality of life.

The two plants are planted in the same ground, take in the same CO2 and give off the same oxygen. There consistency in the environment in which they thrive. There is no consistency in NDEs, well not in any way that can lead to the conclusion that there is an objective afterlife. One set of NDEs have people who see dead relatives while another set only see light at the end of a tunnel, neither which represents anything like what Christians are lead to believe would happen in death. It is quite clear these are not subjective experiences of an objective "realm".

LordReed:
There is no need to explain away the man's experience. He had a profound experience is all that can be said with any kind of certainty. It is however simply not evidence for an afterlife, mostly because it is not consistent with any other experience nor can it be independently verified in any way.

Since the man actually died by verifiable medical evidence AND the dead should be totally unconscious, the man's experience is not real.
In other words, the man had just fabricated a story.

Please note that even your position of insisting that there is no afterlife is WITHOUT ANY IOTA of verifiable EVIDENCE.

Why should we believe your position and not his?

TenQ:
Since the man actually died by verifiable medical evidence AND the dead should be totally unconscious, the man's experience is not real.
In other words, the man had just fabricated a story.

Please note that even your position of insisting that there is no afterlife is WITHOUT ANY IOTA of verifiable EVIDENCE.

Why should we believe your position and not his?

What part of "no need to explain away the man's experience" is hard for you to understand? You have a poor habit of strawmanning my statements. It makes for very poor conversations if I have to first address your strawmans before clarifying my point. I would appreciate it if in our further conversations you make an effort to stop strawmanning me.

Yes there is no evidence there isn't an afterlife just as there is no evidence there is therefore I lack belief in an afterlife.

LordReed:
The two plants are planted in the same ground, take in the same CO2 and give off the same oxygen. There consistency in the environment in which they thrive. There is no consistency in NDEs, well not in any way that can lead to the conclusion that there is an objective afterlife. One set of NDEs have people who see dead relatives while another set only see light at the end of a tunnel, neither which represents anything like what Christians are lead to believe would happen in death. It is quite clear these are not subjective experiences of an objective "realm".

The point is obvious, the two plants don't grow the same way or length. Despite many similarities, we can't all have the same experiences. This is the reality of life. Your opinion that life should be the same is unrealistic. Having different NDEs is very normal and expected just like other experiences in life. It doesn't invalidate the experience, we don't live in a laboratory.

Image123:
The point is obvious, the two plants don't grow the same way or length. Despite many similarities, we can't all have the same experiences. This is the reality of life. Your opinion that life should be the same is unrealistic. Having different NDEs is very normal and expected just like other experiences in life. It doesn't invalidate the experience, we don't live in a laboratory.

It's not about having the same experiences but about having the same baseline. Having different NDEs means there is no objective "afterlife".

LordReed:
What part of "no need to explain away the man's experience" is hard for you to understand? You have a poor habit of strawmanning my statements. It makes for very poor conversations if I have to first address your strawmans before clarifying my point. I would appreciate it if in our further conversations you make an effort to stop strawmanning me.

Yes there is no evidence there isn't an afterlife just as there is no evidence there is therefore I lack belief in an afterlife.

Don't you think that you have narrowed down the definition of EVIDENCE to strictly mean exactly reproducible and repeatable.?

Soldiers send spies to check out a position. The report of the spies form the basis of the army's move because the TESTIMONY of the spies are treated as CREDIBLE. Don't you think your definition of Evidence will disregard the testimony of the spies?

I have never been to Russia and Ukraine, but I treat news coming from there as noteworthy. I don't disregard them because I can't perform a physical experiment on them.

In a case were two opposing views lack your kind of evidence, the one who can give useful information should be treated more seriously. Do you disagree?