₦airaland Forum

DeepsightX:
We are all invisible.

DeepSight, just by posting on here one makes some of oneself visible to those looking and to oneself, if one is looking at oneself.

Great opportunity to reflect on oneself and learn and evolve, is what God Seun has provided for us here.

budaatum:
DeepSight, just by posting on here one makes some of oneself visible to those looking and to oneself, if one is looking at oneself.

Great opportunity to reflect on oneself and learn and evolve, is what God Seun has provided for us here.

You have always been invisible. You only wear a visible mask.

DeepsightX:
So what I mean is with respect to robots, machine intelligence, AI - and the contention by some that it is conceivable for a machine to attain self-consciousness. I pointed out previously that humans are very complex beings who are even capable of absurdity - and by this I mean self contradiction, self negation and even self destruction. This is aside from all manner of absurd and even inexplicable patterns of behavior. My view and understanding is that they are capable of this because of the fact that they possess what I would call living-root-consciousness - in other words they are conscious beings at their core and so for instance can make one decision one moment and flip that decision on a hunch, impulse, intuition or "weird" feeling of any kind the very next instant. They can love and hate someone else at the same time. They can proceed on lines of action clearly detrimental to their own well being. They can sacrifice themselves for others or for a cause. They are capable of altruism and they can commit suicide. They are thus capable of a spectacular spectrum of varied absurdities.

The question is whether a machine could conceivably be capable of the like of such. Because it appears to me that being preprogrammed, nothing it does could be absurd in this sense. Even if it is programmed to self destruct, that is not absurd because that was what was intended in its program. By definition, it thus lacks the capacity to be absurd - and closely allied to this question is what I said about impulse and intuition and the like. There is quite enough in my view to shoot down the idea that machines can be self-conscious, and it's sadly disappointing to see the escapist responses delivered in this thread in that regard.

You have a strong point here.

Self-consciousness is possible in robots if and only if some factors are imputed in such robots
1. Reception of Pain and Pleasure
2. Perception of the Environment
3. Will for self Preservation
4. Choice making

Are these possible with the technology at hand?
Not even remotely!

budaatum:
I've learnt some want to split themselves and others into separate components instead of seeing the whole person, and that I should focus on the persons I see before me instead of their souls that I most definitely see not.

If your knowledge ends with disputing what others think, you have achieved NOTHING (zero knowledge) except you can show how your position brings better understanding of its workings.

In other words, speak about your own knowledge of the Mind and Body relationship. Go deeper in its comprehension and COMMUNICATE such to others in a comprehensible format.

It is never enough to tear down other comprehension without proposing your own.

We are all hear to learn!

TenQ:
If your knowledge ends with disputing what others think, you have achieved NOTHING (zero knowledge) except you can show how your position brings better understanding of its workings.

In other words, speak about your own knowledge of the Mind and Body relationship. Go deeper in its comprehension and COMMUNICATE such to others in a comprehensible format.

It is never enough to tear down other comprehension without proposing your own.

We are all hear to learn!

LoL. O the irony of this response.

TenQ:
You have a strong point here.

Self-consciousness is possible in robots if and only if some factors are imputed in such robots
1. Reception of Pain and Pleasure
2. Perception of the Environment
3. Will for self Preservation
4. Choice making

Are these possible with the technology at hand?
Not even remotely!

When you add on the capacity for conscience, morality and ethical values (which your No. 4 lightly hints at), the entire suggestion that machines can be self conscious in the way that humans are collapses like the ridiculous joke that it always was from the onset.

LordReed:
LoL. O the irony of this response.

The message applies even more you.

DeepsightX:
When you add on the capacity for conscience, morality and ethical values (which your No. 4 lightly hints at), the entire suggestion that machines can be self conscious in the way that humans are collapses like the ridiculous joke that it always was from the onset.

That would be taking it closer to a human being. If they can attain the Creation of consciousness at the level of animals, that would be exceptional!

TenQ:
That would be taking it closer to a human being. If they can attain the Creation of consciousness at the level of animals, that would be exceptional!

Indeed.

Thus conclusively what we have here is the assertion that something which has neither been achieved, nor been proven to be achievable, is acheiveable inspite of the acknowledgement that it is impossible to ever prove it's accomplishment.

This alone, aside from all the other glaring pointers to the truth, is enough to rest this matter.

TenQ:
The message applies even more you.

LoL! Says the person who couldn't provide evidence for his claims.

LordReed:
LoL! Says the person who couldn't provide evidence for his claims.

...and a person who refuses to think beyond spitting out rhetorics!

DeepSight:
Indeed.

Thus conclusively what we have here is the assertion that something which has neither been achieved, nor been proven to be achievable, is acheiveable inspite of the acknowledgement that it is impossible to ever prove it's accomplishment.

This alone, aside from all the other glaring pointers to the truth, is enough to rest this matter.

Its not their fault: the god of this world has caused a deep blindness that only grace can repair

TenQ:
...and a person who refuses to think beyond spitting out rhetorics!

My ability to think beyond the box of mythologies is clearly available for all to see, you on the other hand are still inside the box and can't seem to think your way out of wet tissue paper.

LordReed:
My ability to think beyond the box of mythologies is clearly available for all to see, you on the other hand are still inside the box and can't seem to think your way out of wet tissue paper.

No sir!
All I see is one who refuses to think beyond his conclusion. Probably that is why to you, the mind is reduced simply to CHEMICALs acting on Neurons!

TenQ:
No sir!
All I see is one who refuses to think beyond his conclusion. Probably that is why to you, the mind is reduced simply to CHEMICALs acting on Neurons!

Independent my arss

DeepSight:
Indeed.

Thus conclusively what we have here is the assertion that something which has neither been achieved, nor been proven to be achievable, is acheiveable inspite of the acknowledgement that it is impossible to ever prove it's accomplishment.

This alone, aside from all the other glaring pointers to the truth, is enough to rest this matter.

Unnecessary post/thread.



In fact..., I am not happy with you at all.

TenQ:
No sir!
All I see is one who refuses to think beyond his conclusion. Probably that is why to you, the mind is reduced simply to CHEMICALs acting on Neurons!

Nah, what we have here is a person who doesn't even care to understand what he is arguing about before putting his foot in his mouth. Can you show me where I said the mind is chemicals acting on neurons? No because I didn't. Get a clue first my dude.

LordReed:
Nah, what we have here is a person who doesn't even care to understand what he is arguing about before putting his foot in his mouth. Can you show me where I said the mind is chemicals acting on neurons? No because I didn't. Get a clue first my dude.

What then have you said in any concrete terms?

TenQ:
What then have you said in any concrete terms?

Read my posts in this thread.

LordReed:
Read my posts in this thread.

Nothing except ramblings.
What is your position?

Probably only you know: at least you know mine.

The Soul is analogous to the software of a computer that powers the Body. Just like a Software in intangible (immaterial), the soul is immaterial.

See how easy that is!?
Simple, Understandable, Concise and Relatable.

I don't have to ask you to read 30 pages to present my views.

What is your view?
Can it stand any form of scrutiny?

TenQ:
If your knowledge ends with disputing what others think, you have achieved NOTHING (zero knowledge) except you can show how your position brings better understanding of its workings.

I don't see why I should do any more than dispute what you think about a thing I see no evidence for its existence. And if you really do intend to learn you'd see I've not only disputed it but given you something to think about.

TenQ:
Nothing except ramblings.
What is your position?

Probably only you know: at least you know mine.

The Soul is analogous to the software of a computer that powers the Body. Just like a Software in intangible (immaterial), the soul is immaterial.

See how easy that is!?
Simple, Understandable, Concise and Relatable.

I don't have to ask you to read 30 pages to present my views.

What is your view?
Can it stand any form of scrutiny?

You are just a waste of time. The very first page has what you want but you are too lazy to read it, not going to indulge your laziness.

LordReed:
You are just a waste of time. The very first page has what you want but you are too lazy to read it, not going to indulge your laziness.

That's why a simple question about what you think about mind-body interaction has escaped you.

I guess it just dawned on you that you've got nothing articulated to present as your position not to talk of defending it.

Since you are blank, stop wasting any more precious time.

budaatum:
I don't see why I should do any more than dispute what you think about a thing I see no evidence for its existence. And if you really do intend to learn you'd see I've not only disputed it but given you something to think about.

You see no evidence that the mind exist?!! Don't be an escapist!
I didn't ask you questions relating to the soul: I asked you about the mind-body interaction...break it down in a relatable way. QED!

TenQ:
If your knowledge ends with disputing what others think, you have achieved NOTHING (zero knowledge) except you can show how your position brings better understanding of its workings.

In other words, speak about your own knowledge of the Mind and Body relationship. Go deeper in its comprehension and COMMUNICATE such to others in a comprehensible format.

It is never enough to tear down other comprehension without proposing your own.

We are all hear to learn!

TenQ:
That's why a simple question about what you think about mind-body interaction has escaped you.

I guess it just dawned on you that you've got nothing articulated to present as your position not to talk of defending it.

Since you are blank, stop wasting any more precious time.

Says the one who came into my thread. Dude if you aren't going to bother to read to understand you are a waste of my time.

LordReed:
Says the one who came into my thread. Dude if you aren't going to bother to read to understand you are a waste of my time.

Your thread?
Ask seun about that!

In not a single place have you said the relationship between the MIND and the BODY! You have only critiqued what others said.

Are you afraid?

TenQ:
You see no evidence that the mind exist?!! Don't be an escapist!
I didn't ask you questions relating to the soul

Oh! My bad. I did not note you'd dropped the needless soul. I do apologise. But I never said the mind does not exist, TenQ! The mind of buda is what buda is communicating with you with and not buda's physical body nor soul!

TenQ:
I asked you about the mind-body interaction...break it down in a relatable way. QED!

My own body used to be a slave to my mind, doing its bidding obeying its instructions until a particular illness affected me and now my body often tells my mind to go to hell.

When my mind was like God to my body, mind would imagine it and body will fulfil it as best it could, joyfully too, but not so much anymore. Now my mind must carry its own burden, which is turning out rather good for my mind, since the added burden makes it stronger and more effective in its doing.

Of course, they both work for budaatum their Lord and Master, who will take them both down to the bottom of a river and bash their heads against rocks if they do not do my will. Thankfully, I trained them well to serve me. And I have compassion for my body since it was the mind with budaatum's insufficiently informed oversight that led the body to pick up the illness.

Think, Trinity. It might help you relate.

TenQ:
Your thread?
Ask seun about that!

In not a single place have you said the relationship between the MIND and the BODY! You have only critiqued what others said.

Are you afraid?

LoL! You didn't read anything and somehow you know what I said or didn't say. Not gonna bother answering you again.

LordReed:
Nah, what we have here is a person who doesn't even care to understand what he is arguing about before putting his foot in his mouth. Can you show me where I said the mind is chemicals acting on neurons? No because I didn't. Get a clue first my dude.

You shouldn’t give this ignorant buffoons the chance and satisfaction of thinking their mockery of actual knowledge makes it wrong. You should have said, yes, “neurons and chemicals” is the mind and let the buffoon explain( yea right!) how the magical soul performs any function. I’m used to their nonsense, so it’s easy to see the dead end of their reasoning before they even get a chance to avoid it. Ask them to explain their obviously subjective claims and they become prolix and condescending while spewing more nonsense.
You saw the TenQ fool yap about software this, software that, but when it was time to make the comparison with the so called soul, he just introduced another entity called spirit body and was totally oblivious to the non-explanation.
That’s why I don’t hesitate to call them jackasses because that’s what the disingenuous cretins are.


*copied from a website.
The second problem for dualists is the problem of deep personality changes following brain injury. If the mind and brain are separate, the mind is the seat of consciousness (and presumably personality) and the mind communicates with the brain only to pull the puppet’s strings, why would a brain injury alter who a person is? The classic case is that of Phineas Gage. In 1848, Gage was blasting rock to build a rail line when a charge prematurely exploded, sending the tamping rod he was using through his frontal lobe. Amazingly, he was conscious following the accident, but some time later, physician Dr. John Martyn Harlow wrote

The equilibrium or balance, so to speak, between his intellectual faculties and animal propensities, seems to have been destroyed. He is fitful, irreverent, indulging at times in the grossest profanity (which was not previously his custom), manifesting but little deference for his fellows, impatient of restraint or advice when it conflicts with his desires, at times pertinaciously obstinate, yet capricious and vacillating, devising many plans of future operations, which are no sooner arranged than they are abandoned in turn for others appearing more feasible. A child in his intellectual capacity and manifestations, he has the animal passions of a strong man. Previous to his injury, although untrained in the schools, he possessed a well-balanced mind, and was looked upon by those who knew him as a shrewd, smart businessman, very energetic and persistent in executing all his plans of operation. In this regard his mind was radically changed, so decidedly that his friends and acquaintances said he was ‘no longer Gage.’

I guess this man’s “soul” or “core root conciousness that is beyond the physical” couldn’t recognize itself because the brain had Alzheimer’s disease or maybe the brain is the source of the mind/identity and any damage to it results in damage to the mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq5VQF4fOfg

budaatum:
Oh! My bad. I did not note you'd dropped the needless soul. I do apologise. But I never said the mind does not exist, TenQ! The mind of buda is what buda is communicating with you with and not buda's physical body nor soul!

Matthew 22:37
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Joshua 22:5
But be very careful to keep the commandment and the law that Moses the servant of the Lord gave you: to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to keep his commands, to hold fast to him and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.

1. Why do you think Jesus distinguishes your mind from the "needless soul"?
2. If the heart is sometimes used synonymously with the mind, what then is the soul as referred to in these scriptures above if it is needless?
3. What then the soul according to the scriptures

budaatum:
My own body used to be a slave to my mind, doing its bidding obeying its instructions until a particular illness affected me and now my body often tells my mind to go to hell.

When my mind was like God to my body, mind would imagine it and body will fulfil it as best it could, joyfully too, but not so much anymore. Now my mind must carry its own burden, which is turning out rather good for my mind, since the added burden makes it stronger and more effective in its doing.

Of course, they both work for budaatum their Lord and Master, who will take them both down to the bottom of a river and bash their heads against rocks if they do not do my will. Thankfully, I trained them well to serve me. And I have compassion for my body since it was the mind with budaatum's insufficiently informed oversight that led the body to pick up the illness.

Think, Trinity. It might help you relate.

Why dont you look at it this way sir.

1. The Body is a Slave to the Mind.
Examples:
The Body is craving for Food, but the Mind/Soul tells the Body "It is Fasting Time"
The Body is craving for Sex, but the Mind/Soul tells the Body "Dont, this sex can destroy you"
The Mind/Soul desires to Party, the Body is instructed to Dress up and go to the party

2. The Body is Weaker than the Mind.
The body is actually very dumb
Of course except when the errand from the Mind/Soul is beyond the capability of the Body, the Body ALWAYS complies.
3. The Body only excels in what is AUTOMATICALLY programmed for it to do
Examples:
Breathing, Reception of Sensory Perceptions (Pain, Pleasure, Itches etc)
The Body is actually more or less a dumb brute
4. The Mind/Soul major assignment is to Preserve the Body and Enjoy itself in the process.
The mind/Soul succeeds or fail at this depending on how matured it has become over time through the Knowledge, Experience and Deductions it has made over time.
This is why a drug addict usually fail because his mind/soul is weak and immature.

Because of this: the scripture compels us to RENEW our Mind through God's words

Romans 12:2
2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

NOTE:
The difference betweens Humans and Animals is simply that
1. Animals obey their mind/soul in all things in its primary duty of pleasure and preservation
2. Humans also have their CONSCIENCE that moderates how their mind functions in its primary duty of pleasure and preservation

Most of the humans laws are formulated from the Reason-Conscience aspect of mind/soul/spirit


In summary, the more ENLIGHTENED (Educated), STRONG and TRAINED our mind/soul is, the more Cultured our Bodies appear in the Society.

killyaselfie:
I guess this man’s “soul” or “core root conciousness that is beyond the physical” couldn’t recognize itself because the brain had Alzheimer’s disease or maybe the brain is the source of the mind/identity and any damage to it results in damage to the mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq5VQF4fOfg

Imagine people denying the evidence right in their face while holding on to an unevidenced position. Talk about comedy.