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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? (7094 Views)
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Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:08pm On Apr 02, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: The question should be, are you a friend of the truth? |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:10pm On Apr 02, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: image123 is qualified to speak for me because he is my brother from another mother. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:13pm On Apr 02, 2022 |
haddeylium: You have obviously been influenced by the NWT. The translators did not place the comma, it was Archbishop Stephen Langton who later added the punctuations. 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:17pm On Apr 02, 2022 |
MaxInDHouse: Lies from the pit of hell. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Image123(m): 6:12pm On Apr 02, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: Thanks my dear brother sir. God bless you. 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Ken4Christ: 11:18pm On Apr 02, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: The thief actually went to paradise the very day he died. Paradise in this context is not referring to heaven. It was Abraham's bosom where saints of old went to when they die. It's also underneath the earth and separated from hell by a deep gulf as revealed in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. But after the resurrection of our Lord Jesus, they were all released from that paradise and went to heaven with Jesus when he ascended back to heaven. 2 Likes |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 1:26am On Apr 03, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: The thief was with Jesus in paradise that same day shey? You mean paradise is same as heaven? Have you seen anything like "making heaven" in the Bible? The comma was added by some people after hundreds of years the original manuscript was written. It's an obvious error. Well, Archbishop Stephen Langton failed woefully for putting the comma before today. You've been fed with lies your entire life and when the JWs say something contrary to what you believe (lies), you would think they are the ones lying. Open your eyes bro. I was in your shoes once. The veil was too thick in my eyes then. God created man to dominate the earth. Heaven was God and angels abode. It was never meant for physical beings like us. Go and figure it out. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by haddeylium(m): 7:12pm On Apr 04, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU:Oh really? You mean because Stephen Langton was the first person to suggest punctuation validates the meaning? Calm down and learn No doubt the position of the comma changes the meaning. Not just Stephen, later Greek text of watt and others contains punctuation but the point is, each of them punctuated according to their understanding of the scriptures then. Someone that has a flawed understanding of the bible will punctuated wrongly. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:33pm On Apr 04, 2022 |
Ken4Christ: This is adjudged to be the best answer so far. I hope these JW's would read and learn the truth as expressed succinctly here. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 11:32pm On Apr 04, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: The parable of the rich man and Lazarus na true life story Abi? So what about righteous people that died after Jesus ascension, where are they going, paradise (a place near hell) or straight to heaven? |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:08am On Apr 05, 2022 |
cornelboy: Straight to heaven to be with Jesus.
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Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 8:47am On Apr 05, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: Really? Will they live there forever? |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:57am On Apr 05, 2022 |
cornelboy: Do you even believe that they will be with Jesus in heaven in the first place? |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 9:45am On Apr 05, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU: The beatitudes in Matthew 5 says that some will inherit the earth while some will inherit the kingdom of heaven. 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:29am On Apr 05, 2022 |
cornelboy: Try reading the text below without your tinted spectacles. Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of Him. (2 Corinthians 5:6–9). 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Janosky: 4:05pm On Apr 05, 2022 |
OLAADEGBU:Where does the lord Jesus Christ dwell when Paul wrote 2 Corinthians 5:6-9? In Heaven,of course! Matthew 5:3,5 & 2 Peter 3:13, Did Jesus Christ & Peter teach OLAADEGBU that every believer will dwell in heaven? Matthew 5:3,5 & 2 Peter 3:13 no dey OLAADEGBU Bible. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Emusan(m): 10:55pm On Apr 06, 2022 |
haddeylium: You people are very funny So Jesus was lying to the man that, the man will be with him in Paradise when Jesus Himself won't be in the same Paradise but heaven 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Emusan(m): 11:07pm On Apr 06, 2022 |
cornelboy: Let's look at the qualification for both heaven and earth in Matt 5 3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. So not all JWs are poor in spirit 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. Those who will inherit heaven they are not meek, I guess! 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. Since human can't see God and all believers won't be in heaven, then it means, people who will inherit earth are not pure in heart 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. If this is true, are millions of Jw not being persecuted today according to you people? Adding this to people who are already qualified for heaven, that means 144,000 heavenly rulers will become millions corulers |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 11:20pm On Apr 06, 2022 |
Emusan: So what's your point gangan? |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Emusan(m): 11:35pm On Apr 06, 2022 |
cornelboy: My points are that: 1. if only the meek will inherit the earth, that means people who will inherit the heaven are not MEEK? 2. If only those who are PURE IN HEART will see God, it means those who will inherit the earth are not PURE IN HEART. 3. If only those who are poor in spirit will inherit heaven, that means people who will inherit earth are not poor in spirit 4. If only those who are persecuted for righteousness sake will inherit heaven, you people lied that millions of JW are being persecuted for their beliefs. Do you understand? 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by achorladey: 11:49pm On Apr 06, 2022 |
Emusan: Funny that he was seeking what was the point gangan. We no fit blame am. Their religious leaders have made 144,000 earth owners while the great crowd of other sheep are tenants 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 12:43am On Apr 07, 2022 |
Emusan: See am not as dull as you are. Your only proving that the verses are contradicting. The TRUTH is some will inherit the earth while some will inherit the kingdom! |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by Emusan(m): 12:59am On Apr 07, 2022 |
cornelboy: The evidence is on this thread Your only proving that the verses are contradicting. No! Rather, it shows you don't understand the whole message in that Matt 5 The TRUTH is some will inherit the earth while some will inherit the kingdom! The conditions of inheriting heaven and earth were all spelled out. So kindly tell me which one you're not among these 1. Are you pure in heart? 2. Are you a meek JW? 3. Are you poor in spirit? 4. Are you being persecuted for righteousness sake? Let's see the truth in your statement by providing simple yes or no to those questions. 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by cornelboy(f): 3:06am On Apr 07, 2022 |
Emusan: First you need to know that inheriting heaven is not scriptural. It's inheriting the kingdom of heaven. Both are different. I can't say I'm pure in heart, only God can judge that. Is anyone even pure? Am I a meek? I'm not sure. Maybe I'm poor in spirit though. I'm not being persecuted for now. One main criteria for inheriting the kingdom is being baptized by the holy spirit (born again). So if your poor in spirit or pure in heart and are not baptized by the holy spirit, you can't inherit the kingdom. It doesn't mean that some of the meek won't inherit the kingdom of heaven. Someone that's pure in heart can also be a meek. Only God knows the reward for each person. It might be inheriting the earth or the kingdom of heaven. There are other verses in the Bible that say the righteous will inherit the earth. That doesn't implies that all the righteous will inherit the earth. Of course some will inherit the kingdom of heaven. |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by AkinwaleJJ(f): 5:25am On Apr 07, 2022 |
Emusan: "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20 "teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" Matthew 28:20 Did Jesus prove to be present (physically) as he promised in the two statements above? 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by achorladey: 8:14am On Apr 07, 2022 |
Emusan: The new testaments was directed to 144000 you know The reason they always explain to suit the 144,000 the other sheep na side attractions. This is one of their explanation regarding Matthew 5:5 In what sense do the mild-tempered “inherit the earth”? Jesus’ spirit-anointed disciples inherit the earth when they rule over it as kings and priests. (Rev. 20:6) Millions of others who do not have the heavenly calling, however, will inherit the earth in the sense that they will be allowed to live here forever in perfection, peace, and happiness. See how they are dividing and partitioning what was not divided. Where in Matthew 5:5 did the scripture say some will inherit it by ruling as Kings over it and some will inherit it by allowing to live on the earth. Great crowd of other sheep don suffer . Na allowance dey give them. You see the LANDLORDS and TENANTS relationship here 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by achorladey: 8:23am On Apr 07, 2022 |
cornelboy: La cram la pour. No digestion, nothing to filter as dem dey teach you. Matthew 25:34 - 40 from the NWT...... Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably;+ 36 naked* and you clothed me.+ I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’+ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?+ 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’+ Simple question from this account who will inherit the Kingdom as said by Jesus Christ. A. 144,000 aka Jesus' brothers or my brothers B. Great crowd of other sheep aka the sheep on the right C. I don't understand what you are talking about. D. I choose to stick with my speculations and assumptions filled post E. I want to see how well you understand your beliefs |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by achorladey: 8:34am On Apr 07, 2022 |
AkinwaleJJ: I hope this is not a case of shooting oneself in the foot. Physicallyis |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by AkinwaleJJ(f): 9:27am On Apr 07, 2022 |
achorladey: You got the point! If Jesus was never present (physically) after leaving the earth surely he wasn't talking about being with the thief physically in Paradise! 1 Like |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by achorladey: 10:18am On Apr 07, 2022 |
AkinwaleJJ: That is to say Jesus is with the thief spiritually. That's the message you are passing across. Correct? |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by haddeylium(m): 11:09am On Apr 07, 2022 |
Emusan: Now that you're learning... The earthly paradise that Jesus promised the thief will be governed by Jesus as King. Hence, Jesus will be with this thief and other countless deadones when he resurrect them from the grave to life in paradise earth (John 5:38,29 ; Rev 20:11-13; 21:3-4) 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "Today You Will Be With Me In Paradise"? by oaroloye(m): 11:16am On Apr 07, 2022 |
SHALOM! OLAADEGBU: TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE, YOU MUST THINK LIKE A HEBREW. oaroloye: IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING IN GENERAL, AND THE BIBLE IN PARTICULAR, IT IS ONLY BECAUSE OF YOUR OWN SINFULNESS. If you are a Sinner, it is always the fault of your PARENTS. They were the only ones God gave the mandate to, to teach you The Way of God. God never ordained any "APOSTLE," "PROPHET," "EVANGELIST," "PASTOR," or "TEACHER" to teach us HIS WAY, other than our PARENTS. If our parents don't teach us His Way, then we are surely going to be lost. GOD HAS NO BACKUP SYSTEM TO RESTORE US, IF OUR PARENTS HAVE F(*Bleep!*)D US UP TO THE EXTENT THAT WE CANNOT HEAR HIS VOICE, LET ALONE SEE HIM. God cannot be summoned by Evil. He is no one's TAIL: He is always THE HEAD. oaroloye: This is what the arrogant Colonial/Imperialist Oyinbos have never understood. I HAVE EXPLAINED THESE THINGS ON NAIRALAND BEFORE. oaroloye: ATHEIST ROCK STAR, DAN BARKER, WAS A FULL GOSPEL PENTECOSTAL MINISTER FOR SEVENTEEN YEARS, BEFORE COMING OUT AS AN ATHEIST. He had received the so-called BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST, WITH EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN UNKNOWN TONGUES. He heard what he thought was "THE VOICE OF GOD," directing him to drive somewhere, and wait for someone who never showed. There were apparent MIRACLES OF HEALING in his Church. He cried out for God to manifest Himself to him- and when it didn't happen, he declared himself an Atheist, and denied that there was any evidence that God Exists. [See: GODLESS: How an Evangelical Minister became one of America's leading Atheists, by Dan Barker (2008).] My second greatest Christian hero was KENNETH COPELAND. KENNETH ERWIN HAGIN taught me 95% of what I know about FAITH: the other half was taught me by KENNETH COPELAND (Yogi Berra reference, sorry). After attending Kenneth Hagin's Pastor Seminars, Kenneth Copeland founded his Ministry in 1967. In 2015, Anglican Evangelical Preacher, TONY PALMER, publicly called him to come back to the Roman Catholic Church. It then emerged that he was one of several influential Protestant Ministers, who had been secretly undercover Roman Catholics this whole time. TONY PALMER exposed all of them, posing with POPE FRANCIS, he declared: "NOW WE ARE NO MORE PROTESTANTS!" Two weeks later, he died in a motorcycle "ACCIDENT." MY POINT IS: TRUST NO ONE IN THIS RELIGION, BUT LORD YESHUA AND MOSES. Forget about all these useless theological arguments the Oyinbos made up to waste our time, until you have THE TEN TALENTS OF POWER, and can see for yourself. That is what EVERYTHING the Oyinbos do is aimed at. Restroom: . LUKE 16:19-31. 19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the Angels into Abraham's Bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23. And in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24. And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame." 25. But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy Good Things, and likewise Lazarus Evil Things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." 27. Then he said, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28. "For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." 29. Abraham saith unto him, "They have Moses and The Prophets; let them hear them." 30. And he said, "Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the Dead, they will repent." 31. And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and The Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the Dead." LORD YESHUA NEVER SAID THAT THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS WERE A PARABLE. [/quote] Lord Yeshua never said anything that was not literally true- whether in a Parable or otherwise. For instance, he is never recorded as saying, "There was a Pig who flew...," or, "There was a Cow that jumped over the Moon...." His Parables were all based on things that happen in everyday life. LORD YESHUA IS THE PRIMARY AUTHORITY FOR CHRISTIANS- THE ONLY WAY FOR CHRISTIANS TO GET F(*Bleep!*)D UP, IS TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE PRIMARY AUTHORITY. "AVRAHAM'S BOSOM" did not mean the literal bosom of Avraham, but a PLACE where the RIGHTEOUS SOULS THAT SURVIVE DEATH can go to. That is what THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA JUDICAEA says. The Jews are descendants of 9th Century converts to Yudahism, from a country called KHAZARIA- which is now called UKRAINE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulan_(Khazar) ALL THE OYINBOS, AND ARABS KNOW THIS AT LEADERSHIP LEVEL. AVRAHAM AND HIS DESCENDANTS WERE ALL BLACKS- INCLUDING LORD YESHUA, CANAANITES, AND KEMETIANS. King Bulan, who adopted Yudahism to unite his kingdom, consulted representatives of Yudahism, Christianity, and Islam, to determine which Religion was best for that purpose. All those Power Blocs have been aware that THE JEWS WERE NEVER HEBREWS the whole time. Giving them PALESTINE, as if it were their ancestral home, IS A CHARADE. It was not until the 15th Century that the Oyinbos began claiming that the Hebrews and Lord Yeshua were Whites, like them. Sunburn has been literally killing the Jews in Israel. (That is not a joke: IT IS LITERALLY KILLING THEM!) That is because that is not their ancestral homeland! "HELL" is a place where the Souls of the Evil dead who survive the death of their bodies are RESTRAINED IN FIRE. If they were allowed to roam free, they could do stupedous damage- from killing and destroying to harvest Spiritual Energy, to seizing the bodies of the Newborn, to steal another life. AVRAHAM'S BOSOM is the PARADISE that Lord Yeshua and the Thief on the Other Cross went to together, after they died. When Lord Yeshua Resurrected from the Dead, many Saints Resurrected with him. They either went back to Avraham's Bosom, or Ascended to Heaven too. . JOHN 14:28. 28. "Ye have heard how I Said unto you, [i]'I GO AWAY, AND COME AGAIN UNTO YOU.' If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I Said, 'I GO UNTO THE FATHER:' for my Father is greater than I." . JOHN 20:17. 17. "Jesus Saith unto her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet Ascended to my Father: but go to my Brethren, and say unto them, 'I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD, AND TO YOUR GOD.' " Lord Yeshua could not Ascend to Heaven, until he had Resurrected from the Dead. Most Old Testament Saints did not go to Heaven, because they did not have Heavenly Knowledge- which comes from keeping Heavenly Law. LORD YESHUA PREACHED HEAVENLY LAW, SO HE HAD A RIGHT TO ASCEND INTO HEAVEN. But he had depleted all of his Heavenly Spiritual Energy, spending It on "HARLOTS." OLAADEGBU: oaroloye: PUNCTUATION AND SEPARATION BETWEEN WORDS HAD NOT BEEN INVENTED IN ANCIENT TIMES. That is what makes the Greek Translations so important. |
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