GreenandGold:


Nigeria is making MRAPs already, there's no need to buy them from a foreign supplier who could one day not give you spare parts should they get pressured by the West, unless your military bosses and politicians are currently getting kickbacks from overseas companies.

Nigerian Armoured vehicles come mainly from China & Dubai.

"I also noticed that you buy any MPRAP from anywhere and field it like that. I don't think you consider logistics support for these multiple vehicles during deployment, long term maintenance (spares, computer boxes, chips, sensors, etc) of these different types of vehicles."

This is your comment. How are we buying MRAPS from everywhere?

kabe1:


Why do you think so?

How did you come by this conclusion, and how many MRAPs does the Nigerian army field compared to any other country involved in active combat operations?

I actually lost count on the number of MPRAPs you actually post over the years, its almost a dozen.

According to what I understand, for each vehicle that is deployed in battle, a dedicated support team has to be deployed as well.. Countries like the US who have a $700bn military budget can field half a dozen vehicles because they are swimming in cash, Russia tried the same thing and ended up ditching the vehicles on battle fields because they don't have the technical support for each and every vehicle they deployed.

Coming back to Africa, SA deployed only 2 MRAPs in Angola (the Baffel and Casspir), and you know we were the HQ of that tech in the 80s but logistic support instructs something else.

kabe1:


[/b]

This is your comment. How are we buying MRAPS from everywhere?

China, UAE, South Africa, Nigeria.... this is too many countries supplying a vehicle that you are already making.

GreenandGold:


I actually lost count on the number of MPRAPs you actually post over the years, its almost a dozen.

According to what I understand, for each vehicle that is deployed in battle, a dedicated support team has to be deployed as well.. Countries like the US who have a $700bn military budget can field half a dozen vehicles because they are swimming in cash, Russia tried the same thing and ended up ditching the vehicles on battle fields because they don't have the technical support for each and every vehicle they deployed.

Coming back to Africa, SA deployed only 2 MRAPs in Angola (the Baffel and Casspir), and you know we were the HQ of that tech in the 80s but logistic support instructs something else.

You are trying to rationalize your earlier comment.

I'm asking you, how many MRAPs do Nigeria field in combat operations?

please answer me.

GreenandGold:


China, UAE, South Africa, Nigeria.... this is too many countries supplying a vehicle that you are already making.

Nigerian army does not use MRAPs from South-Africa.

GreenandGold:


China, UAE, South Africa, Nigeria.... this is too many countries supplying a vehicle that you are already making.

200 MRAPs from China

200 MRAPs from UAE

50 -70 MRAPs from Nigeria.

How is this going to be a logistical problem?

kabe1:


Nigerian army does not use MRAPs from South-Africa.

The internet never forgets

kabe1:


200 MRAPs from China

200 MRAPs from UAE

50 -70 MRAPs from Nigeria.

How is this going to be a logistical problem?

Bro, don't pretend these are the only vehicles you'll have. You already have half a dozen other types in large numbers in the country already that need maintenance.

GreenandGold:


The internet never forgets

kabe1:


Nigerian army does not use MRAPs from South-Africa.

Bros, you are better than this.


Nigerian Air Force purchased only 2 units of Marauder MRAPs which are used for base defence in Niger State(Central Nigeria), not in the North-East.

The Reva MRAP has since been taken off service as most of them had reached the stage of obsolescence.

GreenandGold:


Bro, don't pretend these are the only vehicles you'll have. You already have half a dozen other types in large numbers in the country already that need maintenance.

No, talk about what is reality, not want you want reality to be.

There are no half a dozen types in Nigerian army service.

There are only CS/VP3 MRAPs from China & Legion MRAPs from the UAE. Proforce Ara & Ezugwu are Nigerian.

kabe1:


What are you talking about?

That's an air crew view as seen from a Royal Navy's wild cat helicopter's forward looking infrared camera.

I mean the chopper wasn't covering the event rather receiving the live feed via network.
Judging by the camera angle of that event Pic, it is not something captured from a chopper in the air.

kabe1:


No, talk about what is reality, not want you want to be reality.

There are no half a dozen types in Nigerian army service.

There are only CS/VP3 MRAPs from China & Legion MRAPs from the UAE. Proforce Ara & Ezugwu are Nigerian.

Okay, so I looked into my files where I have pictures of Nigerian army. And I have these types:

South Africa: REVA MkIII, Marauder
USA: MAXXPRO, BAE Caiman
UAE: Isotrex Legion, Isotrex Phantom 2
China: CS/VP3 Bigfoot
Nigeria: Ezugwu, Proforce ARA

To add to this, Nigeria army also operates highly diverse armored personnel carriers like Mengshi CSK-131, KIA K152, VBL, KrAZ Spartan, Otokar Cobra... And no, all of this is still in service, none have been phased out. Also my list might not be complete, I was never really interested in Nigerian army as much as in other ones, so I only have a few photos downloaded. Anyway, this is a lot of types and I haven't even started writing list of
other vehicle types where Nigerian army is just as diverse. This is logistical nightmare in my opinion.

There is also this Nigerian MRAP that I have seen a couple of times, articles claim they entered service but I don't know their name or if that's true.

Buschlaid:


Okay, so I looked into my files where I have pictures of Nigerian army. And I have these types:

South Africa: REVA MkIII, Marauder

REVA MRAPs no longer exist in Nigerian army service. The vehicles proved to lack the technical characteristics required to operate in a Nigerian environment. Phased out, and obsolete.

Marauder MRAP - 2 units used by the Nigerian Air Force for Base Defence, not used by the Nigerian army. Different Service!!

Buschlaid:

USA: MAXXPRO, BAE Caiman

24 units, second hand, donated to the Nigerian army in 2013/14. No longer in service with the Nigerian army

Buschlaid:

UAE: Isotrex Legion, Isotrex Phantom 2
China: CS/VP3 Bigfoot
Nigeria: Ezugwu, Proforce ARA

All the above mentioned vehicles are the primary MRAPs employed by the Nigerian army in the North-East.

Buschlaid:

To add to this, Nigeria army also operates highly diverse armored personnel carriers like Mengshi CSK-131, KIA K152, VAB, KrAZ Spartan, Otokar Cobra... And no, all of this is still in service, none have been phased out. Also my list might not be complete, I was never really interested in Nigerian army as much as in other ones, so I only have a few photos downloaded. Anyway, this is a lot of types and I haven't even started writing list of
other vehicle types where Nigerian army is just as diverse. This is logistical nightmare in my opinion.

There is also this Nigerian MRAP that I have seen a couple of times, articles claim they entered service but I don't know their name or if that's true.

You are wrong, the fact that the Nigerian army bought some of these in the past, doesn't mean they are still in service.

Mengshi CSK-131- 100 units acquired - in service

KIA K152 - 6 units acquired - significant possibility that they have all been destroyed in combat.

VAB,- Do you mean the Panhard VBL -Nigeria purchased these vehicles in 1986(36 years ago) withdrawn from frontline service and into storage.

KrAZ Spartan - Phased out or destroyed in combat.

Otokar Cobra - purchased in 2003, initially withdrawn from the front-line, but around 15 units were recently put back into action.



You are yet to provide any evidence to support your claims that there is a logistical Nightmare currently unfolding in the Nigerian military MRAP deployment.

Can you post that evidence you claim to have?

NTSA:

Interesting I didn't know we /CIA secretly trained SPLM on how to "use them"

A few exerpts from different sources

“South Sudan is assembling an armour fleet, preparing for any eventuality in its enduring dispute with Khartoum,” reported the latest edition of trade journal Jane’s Defence Weekly.

“In total, military and diplomatic sources confirmed to Jane’s, 100 MBTs (main battle tanks) were ordered by South Sudan.”

The journal published satellite images it said showing an SPLA compound northeast of the south’s capital Juba in March containing tanks covered with camouflage or “wedged into the vegetation around the compound”.

It said 12 new covered vehicles were photographed in May, each the same shape as a Ukrainian T-72 battle tank. The satellite images also showed fresh track marks leading from Juba airport to the compound “indicating that these vehicles were airlifted to Sudan, probably in early May, and driven to the SPLA facility,” said Jane’s.

It added it had not been able to prove the vehicles pictured near Juba in May were the same T-72 tanks found on a Ukrainian ship hijacked by Somali pirates in September last year.

At the time, diplomats, the U.S. navy and the pirates said they believed its cargo of tanks had been heading to south Sudan via Kenya. Both South Sudan and Kenya denied the claims.

The T-72 tanks were transported to Kenya in February, after a ransom was paid. Jane’s said the Kenyan army had promised to show reporters the tanks were still there, but had so far not followed through on the offer.

ADVERTISEMENT


The SPLA on Wednesday told Reuters it did order some T-72 tanks in 2007, which were delivered in 2008. But spokesman Malaak Ayuen Ajok denied receiving any more after that date.

“The SPLA has not received any new tanks this year. No tanks have been airlifted into South Sudan,” he said.

Ajok said the south was not building up its forces to prepare for any threat, but was working to modernise its army.

https://www.reuters.com/article/ozatp-sudan-south-arms-20090709-idAFJOE56803720090709




One year after the Hijacking, and after it was no longer a secret

Kenya dispatches military experts to train South Sudan army
August 30, 2009 (NAIROBI) — The Kenyan army dispatched some 200 military experts to train southern Sudan army within Juba efforts to upgrade the former rebel guerrilla force, SPLA, into conventional army.
Another batch of 95 officers would arrive to the semi-autonomous region in September.
The Kenyan teams who are belonging to different armies include officers from the infantry, artillery, military transport and logistics, helicopter pilots, and military intelligence.

The Nairobi Star in a report published last week said the Kenyan officers would train the SPLA in the use of their newly acquired military equipment including an estimated 100 T-72s main battle tanks (MBTs) and assorted Ukrainian and Russian military hardware which Southern Sudan has accumulated over the past year.

https://sudantribune.com/article32144/

From nytimes

Bush administration officials knew of the earlier weapons transactions and chose not to shut them down ,an official from southern Sudan asserted in an interview, and the cables acknowledge the Kenyan officials’ assertions that they had kept American officials informed about the deal. But once the pirates exposed the arms pipeline through Kenya, the Obama administration protested to the Ukrainian and Kenyan governments, even threatening sanctions, the cables show.

Vann H. Van Diepen, a senior State Department official, presented the Ukrainians with a sales contract that showed southern Sudan as the recipient, according to a November 2009 cable from the American Embassy in Kiev. When they dismissed it as a forgery, Mr. Van Diepen “showed the Ukrainians cleared satellite imagery of T-72 tanks unloaded in Kenya, transferred to railyards for onward shipment, and finally in South Sudan,” the cable said, referring to the early deliveries of the weapons. “This led to a commotion on the Ukrainian side.”

Still from NYtimes, Both Kenya and US we're sharing details of the kind of assistance they were providing to SPLM

The agreement also allows southern Sudan to buy arms to transform its guerrilla army into a defense force, and the United States has also publicly said that it has provided communications and other “nonlethal” equipment and training to the southern army, called the Sudan People’s Liberation Army, or S.P.L.A. The cables suggest that effort has gone further than the United States has publicized.

“Over the past two years,” says a December 2009 cable, from the embassy in Nairobi, Kenyan officials “have shared full details of their engagement with the SPLA as we have shared details of our training program for the SPLA, including combat arms soldier training.”

When Ukrainian officials were approached by American officials about the arms shipments in July 2008, they insisted that the weapons were intended for Kenya’s military. Even so, some American diplomats understood otherwise and did not appear very concerned. In a cable from Oct. 19, 2008, Alberto M. Fernandez, who served as the chargé d’affaires in Khartoum, reports that he told officials from southern Sudan that while the United States would prefer not to see an arms buildup in the region, it understood that the government there “feels compelled to do the same” as the north. He also cautioned the officials to take care, if there were future shipments, to avoid a repeat hijacking by pirates and “the attention it has drawn.”
After the Obama administration took office , a new special envoy for Sudan was appointed and the United States offered incentives for Khartoum to cooperate with the coming referendum. Taking a stricter position than the Bush administration on the tanks, the State Department also insisted that the shipments were illegal, since Sudan was on the United States’ list of state sponsors of terrorism.

In a blunt exchange with the Ukrainians in November 2009, Mr. Van Diepen warned that the United States might impose sanctions unless the Ukrainian government acknowledged its role in the past transactions. According to the cable, he cautioned pointedly, “there was nothing for Ukraine to gain from lying and a lot to lose.”

In similar conversations with Kenyan officials, the Obama administration again raised the threat of “sweeping sanctions,” which it said might be waived if the officials cooperated in investigating the third shipment.

In a Nov. 27, 2009, cable outlining talking points for American diplomats in Nairobi to present to the Kenyans, the State Department acknowledged “the apparent disconnect” between provisions of the peace agreement that allowed southern Sudan to develop its defensive capability and the Americans’ legal argument that arms should not be sent there because of the Khartoum government’s place on the terrorism list.
“We also recognize that some members of your government informed some members of the USG that this deal was being prepared,” the cable, which was sent by Secretary Clinton, added. But the cable argued that southern Sudan did not need the tanks, they would be difficult to maintain and they would “increase the chance of an arms race with Khartoum.”

That did not appear to mollify the Kenyans. A cable on Dec. 16, 2009, recounted that the head of Kenya’s general staff told American officials that he was “very confused” by the United States position “since the past transfers had been undertaken in consultation with the United States.” According to the cable, the Kenyans asked whether the Obama administration was reconsidering whether to move forward with a referendum under the peace accord and whether it was “shifting its support to Khartoum.”

In recent months, the Obama administration quietly exempted Ukraine and Kenya from sanctions for the 2007 and 2008 shipments, according to government officials.
Representative Donald M. Payne, the New Jersey Democrat who heads the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee on Africa, has urged that the tanks be shipped. “Our government knew those tanks were being purchased,” he said in an interview. “The fact is the pirates’ seizure of the tanks is what made them change their policy. I don’t think the Obama administration has a clear policy on Sudan.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/world/africa/09wikileaks-tank.html



--------;
After reading the NYtimes article I now realize that G.Bush was more friendly to Kenya than Obama our own son , that nigga!!!

Umbutfo Defence Force of eSwatini welcoming the President of Zambia

Paying my respects to those on immediate top

Which country be this , first time reading about it , never heard the name before

Edit Swaziland new name

...More

Nemesis4you:
Paying my respects to those on immediate top

Which country be this , first time reading about it , never heard the name before

Edit Swaziland new name

Be part of a delegation and you get a whole welcome crew

GreenandGold:


Be part of a delegation and you get a whole welcome crew

No offence to the other ladies

But i am perticular partial to ladies in camoed skirts and military boots

edit googled it - bantu

kabe1:

REVA MRAPs no longer exist in Nigerian army service. The vehicles proved to lack the technical characteristics required to operate in a Nigerian environment. Phased out, and obsolete.

Marauder MRAP - 2 units used by the Nigerian Air Force for Base Defence, not used by the Nigerian army. Different Service!!



24 units, second hand, donated to the Nigerian army in 2013/14. No longer in service with the Nigerian army



All the above mentioned vehicles are the primary MRAPs employed by the Nigerian army in the North-East.



You are wrong, the fact that the Nigerian army bought some of these in the past, doesn't mean they are still in service.

Mengshi CSK-131- 100 units acquired - in service

KIA K152 - 6 units acquired - significant possibility that they have all been destroyed in combat.

VAB,- Do you mean the Panhard VBL -Nigeria purchased these vehicles in 1986(36 years ago) withdrawn from frontline service and into storage.

KrAZ Spartan - Phased out or destroyed in combat.

Otokar Cobra - purchased in 2003, initially withdrawn from the front-line, but around 15 units were recently put back into action.



You are yet to provide any evidence to support your claims that there is a logistical Nightmare currently unfolding in the Nigerian military MRAP deployment.

Can you post that evidence you claim to have?

REVA: They are better than majority of the MRAPs Nigeria has in service, phasing them out for being "obsolete" would be ridiculous. Do you have any support for your claim that they are phased out and obsolete? Also if REVAs lacked technical characteristics to operate in Nigerian service, why did army order 40 then?

Marauder: How is that relevant? Usually armies try to have some unification between branches and I would love to know what is your source for just 2 in service. All I could find is that there is unknown number in service. Either way, you still need to deliver parts for them, further stretching logistics.

MAXXPRO and Caiman: Wrong! You could see them on ceremony when Ezugwus entered service back in 2020. Remember the picture in my previous post? Yeah, they are in the picture ) By the way, according to numerous sites, such as army recognition, they were donated in 2016, not earlier... https://www.nairaland.com/1386870/african-militaries-security-services-strictly/318 it was also posted here


Funny you say I'm wrong but don't back your claim. I could say the exact same thing.
I won't say anything about numbers in service or where such vehicles serve, which matters a little, main logistical problem is number of types.

But your claim that Nigeria has 6 KIA K142 in service catched my eyes, any source for this? Because I haven't found any specified number that has been ordered/received.

Panhard VBL: a few days ago you have posted a picture of one Nigerian VBL, isn't it recent? It's on page 2539. Anyway, last pictures I have of Panhards are from 2019.

KrAZ Spartan: Not true, still in service, I have some pictures from last year. I have attached 2 of them...

Otokar Cobra: I know they are still in service, I have attached one picture of them.


This is my source, this number of types is awfully large, too many unique types that share few or no parts at all. And the diversity of importers of these vehicles is also large, usually armies buy from just a few countries.

Lurker4Long:

The anger and wailing on the Russki telegram channels was real enough. 2 BTGs, T-72s, T-80s, BMPs, MT-LBs etc destroyed on 2 attempts at bridging due to incompetence.

There was a Brit who had a photo analysis of the incident: yes,it was an arse kicking,but he said judging from lack of visible penetration or close arty impact some of the vehicles may have been destroyed to prevent capture. He therefore put their KIA at 80 max. I've searched high and low but can't find his writeup now.
Anyway the J/Ukes ofc know the dangers of Russian river crossings.

General von Mellenthin speaks of this in his book Panzer Battles when he says that any Soviet river crossing must be attacked immediately with whatever the defender has; any delay brings more and more Soviet soldiers swimming, wading or floating across. They reinforce success no matter what.

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2022/05/30/nato-would-probably-lose-a-war-against-russia/

The Russian Tactical Group on paper is tailor made for warfighting. Basically a battalion size combined arms unit acting as the spearpoint of the parent brigade.

Throughout the Cold War, the Soviets tried different combinations of forces in an effort to create an optimum Combined Arms Battalion, or Battalion Tactical Group in the Russian parlance. It had to be lethal, yet not too large, capable of acting independently for a period of days, and able to fight combined effectively.

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/getting-know-russian-battalion-tactical-group

it seems they'll be a permanent fixture of all ground formations. Lester Grau who wrote the Russian combat experience in the A'stan I referenced earlier has a good analysis.

Buschlaid:


This is my source, this number of types is awfully large, too many unique types that share few or no parts at all. And the diversity of importers of these vehicles is also large, usually armies buy from just a few countries.

The highlighted part is everything.

Buschlaid:



REVA: They are better than majority of the MRAPs Nigeria has in service, phasing them out for being "obsolete" would be ridiculous. Do you have any support for your claim that they are phased out and obsolete? Also if REVAs lacked technical characteristics to operate in Nigerian service, why did army order 40 then?

The REVA MRAPs were purchased in 2015, and were primarily used by the 72 MSF, whom were trained by South-African mercs. Following the defeat of the former President of Nigeria in the elections, the unit was disbanded and members/vehicles transferred to the newly formed AFSF unit. The REVA vehicles proved to less reliable, some of the damaged vehicles were canibalized for parts. Tons of photos have been shared on this thread to support this.

All Reva MRAPs in Nigerian army service are derelict, damaged in combat or obsolete.

The Nigerian army ordered more CS/VP3 MRAPs, instead of Reva MRAPs, tells you how well the REVA MRAP did.

Buschlaid:





Marauder: How is that relevant? Usually armies try to have some unification between branches and I would love to know what is your source for just 2 in service. All I could find is that there is unknown number in service. Either way, you still need to deliver parts for them, further stretching logistics.

No they don't. Why do the US Marines fly the AH-1Z Viper instead of Apache Helicopters?

The Nigerian Air Force is not the Nigerian army. They do not have a combined budget.

You cannot claim that they are the same. The Air Force is different from the Army, and where assets are deployed tells you about the ease of employment, durability and effectiveness of that asset.


Actually 3 units of Marauder MRAPs bought by the Nigerian Air Force.

Source: SIPRI arms transfer database.

Too much stress

Unnecessary ones

Buschlaid:





MAXXPRO and Caiman: Wrong! You could see them on ceremony when Ezugwus entered service back in 2020. Remember the picture in my previous post? Yeah, they are in the picture ) By the way, according to numerous sites, such as army recognition, they were donated in 2016, not earlier...

From this picture you shared?

No, the Caiman and Maxpro just like the Reva before it are not in service. This photo was taken at the Nigerian Army School of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering. Obsolete T-72 Tanks were also parked there.

They are not in service.

Buschlaid:




Funny you say I'm wrong but don't back your claim. I could say the exact same thing.
I won't say anything about numbers in service or where such vehicles serve, which matters a little, main logistical problem is number of types.

But your claim that Nigeria has 6 KIA K142 in service catched my eyes, any source for this? Because I haven't found any specified number that has been ordered/received.

Unfortunately you did not back any of your claims with any sources, I have shared SIPRI sources with you.

Where a vehicle serves is very, very important in determining the durability and effectiveness of that vehicle.

You simply cannot deploy a vehicle you don't trust to the front lines.

I have attached my source for the K142, SIPRI.

The Nigerian army actually had 5 units in service, we have seen pictures of 3 units destroyed in combat operations. It's say to assume that they might have all been destroyed in combat or withdrawn from service.

Buschlaid:




Panhard VBL: a few days ago you have posted a picture of one Nigerian VBL, isn't it recent? It's on page 2539. Anyway, last pictures I have of Panhards are from 2019.

KrAZ Spartan: Not true, still in service, I have some pictures from last year. I have attached 2 of them...

Otokar Cobra: I know they are still in service, I have attached one picture of them.


This is my source, this number of types is awfully large, too many unique types that share few or no parts at all. And the diversity of importers of these vehicles is also large, usually armies buy from just a few countries.

The Panhard VBL has been in Nigerian army service since 1986. They used to be deployed in the North East, but they no longer serve there.

The photo I shared was taken at the Nigerian army's school of Infantry in Kaduna state.

Kraz Spartan are no longer in service, the Nigerian army purchased quite a few units, those vehicles have since been replaced by the Legion MRAP and CS/VP3 in Nigerian army service.

The Otokar Cobra was bought in 2003, a number of units were put back in the North East as I had earlier pointed out.

You are yet to show evidence that the Nigerian army uses a wide variety of vehicles in active combat operations.

I have provided ample evidence to show that the Nigerian army operates only vehicles from 3 different countries, Nigerian being one of them in active operations.

So how does this constitute a logistical nightmare considering the evidence before us?

kabe1:


No they don't. Why do the US Marines fly the AH-1Z Viper instead of Apache Helicopters?

The Nigerian Air Force is not the Nigerian army. They do not have a combined budget.

You cannot claim that they are the same. The Air Force is different from the Army, and where assets are deployed tells you about the ease of employment, durability and effectiveness of that asset.


Actually 3 units of Marauder MRAPs bought by the Nigerian Air Force.

Source: SIPRI arms transfer database.

USMC and US Army are just different, you can hardly compare any smaller army in the world to their budget, structure etc. And it's still not the best comparison, both are built in the US, both share the same weapons and some of the systems too, both manufacturers supply more equipment types to the branches, in case of AH-1Z, it even shares parts with UH-1Y.

But the MRAPs are just completly different than any other branch uses, shares no parts with them. And I didn't say they are the same, what I mean is the problems that come with buying the spare parts. Can you imagine the soldiers ordering so many different parts from so many sources and then distributing them? That's the real pain in the ass, especially in case of war. Even countries that diversify their arsenal usually maintain just a few sources of equipment.

As for the REVAs, so do you have any source for your claims? You can share the photos of their terrible performance, if they are so common it shouldn't be hard. Cannibalization is common, nothing special that would prove said vehicle is mediocre. I've sat in REVA before, that thing is simple but definitely not obsolete.

And the purchase doesn't say anything about their performance, rather that simply the CS/VP3 is cheaper and therefore Nigeria could offer to buy more of them than the REVAs.

I've just read the rest of your answers and sorry, I don't have time for this. SIPRI is awful source, SIPRI also claimed Angola has BMD-3 that they have never ever received. Not sure if they finally fixed it in newer issues. It often contains a lot of innacuracies. I can't blame you for using it though, it's probably the only source that claims any number, it's just not very reliable from my experience. And thank you for providing me with some sources, after I asked you, but also with adding on top of it more statements, you have again, not backed by any sources. I backed my claims and you ignored it.

Buschlaid:



I've just read the rest of your answers and seriously, I don't have time for this. SIPRI is awful source, SIPRI also claims Angola has BMD-3 that they have never ever received. It often contains a lot of innacuracies. I can't blame you for using it though, it's probably the only source that claims any number, it's just not very reliable from my experience. And thank you for providing me with some sources, after I asked you, but also with adding on top of it more statements, you have again, not backed by any sources. I backed my claims and you ignored it.

I think it would be best for us to agree to disagree.

I do not agree with a lot of your comments on this subject, instead of having a long drawn out debate to nowhere, it's best we call it a day.

As for the Reva MRAPs, South Africa sold poor quality, poorly engineered vehicles to Nigeria in 2015.

In 2018, photos attached, show the state of the Vehicles.

Nigeria did not buy additional MRAPs from China because they were cheap, the CS/VP3 is battle proven. The Reva's on the other hand are worthless.