₦airaland Forum

Why do I keep doing this to myself? Anyways

MaxInDHouse:
I will take you back to the illustration of electric company:
Note that no company can perform their duty if the inhabitants don't welcome their idea so the JWs aren't welcomed in any society that's why we only speak with individuals in order to make each of them a member of the group.

Last time I checked, electrical companies don't go door to door asking people if they have electrical problems in their home. You should really think about the analogies you use before you use them.

And you err again saying Buddhism or Jainism are peaceful. Well that's where you failed woefully because real peacemakers don't wait for people to search but they are the ones who makes sacrifices to go in search of lovers of peace. So your Buddhism and Jainism case is dead on arrival as they're not going from house to house and door to door in search of lovers of peace!

1) Refer to point above.
2) Do you understand the meaning of being peaceful? Or are you going to try to reinterpret it here again. To be peaceful means to avoid violence, or war. That's the simple basic definition. And many people, as well as groups, satisfy that category. Nowhere in the dictionary, is it stated that part of the requirements for being peaceful, involves going to knock on people's door to try to convert them to your religion.
Please, I'm begging you. Stop.. Twisting ... Things.

There you go again showing how unintelligent you are!

Thanks

If you have direct access to a ruler surely what you will ask for will be personal, that's why each person differs in what they look for in a deity but when it comes to collectivity people in general only ask for peace and security from a deity just as Nigerians as a whole will ask for peace and security from their ruler. It's only when you have direct access to Buhari that you can speak about personal needs!

Shifting the goalpost as usual. You made the claim that the sole reason why people worshiped a God/Gods was for peace and protection. I showed you how that's false, and that people have worshiped gods for far more reasons. Now you're giving analogy of direct access and whatnot. Man... I just can't with you.

Indisputable is what you can't present another concept or idea that's working out BENEFITS like it. For instance Buddhism and Jainism is restricted to a particular race because the ideas can't work elsewhere that's why those practicing it can't confidently promote it elsewhere apart from few geographical locations.

No offence. But the more this discussion goes on, the more I question whether or not you have access to google. What kind of a racist narrative are you trying to push here? I won't even try to argue for something like this.

But as for the TRUTH my guy Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully gathered millions throughout the earth just as Jesus Christ foretold! Act 1:8 So stop deceiving yourself!

Playing the numbers game is one of the worst arguments you can make for your faith. Regardless of your recruitment tactics, the number of followers you have has no bearing on whether your belief is true or not. The total population of muslims far outnumbers JWs. By that logic, they are more true than you. It's a really basic, and flawed thing to even say.

Truth, is truth. Irrespective of the number of people who accept it. You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

Oh God.., Here we go again.

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever makes people spend millions of dollars which could be diverted into production of food and other things that can make life sweeter into building destructive weapons only to kill people is evidence of lack of wisdom. Only JWs have successfully achieved that! Isaiah 2:2-4

I don't even know how to respond to this lol. Do the societies who engage in war not also spend money to produce food? Or are JWs the only food producers in the world?

How much does a Bible cost?
How much does AK-47 cost?

Couldn't care less.

Well the Bible is a weapon just as AK-47 is also a weapon.

The bible is a book, meant for reading. Unless of course, you're John Wick. Then yes. The bible can be a weapon.

But the advantage of the Bible is that it kills the evil in the hearts of men and preserve them alive while the AK-47 kills the person living you with dead neighbours.

Sure thing pal

Who brought the Bible? God!
Who invented AK-47? Scientists!

I actually laughed out loud at this. So thank you.

Who brought the bible? Humans. Humans who claimed to have been inspired by a God.

Who developed the process for converting trees into paper that could be used to create books, including the bible. The same scientists.
Who developed the phone/laptop you're using? Who developed the systems for purifying water you get from the ground? Who developed the refrigerator that keeps your food cold? Who developed the car you drive to work? Let me guess.. the same "scientists"

The fact that you peddle this "Scientist vs God" ideology, only goes to show how little you know about the scientists, and the scientific method. You enjoy the benefits of other scientific discoveries without batting an eye, but start pointing fingers at scientists when it comes to weapons. I'm sorry to say, but that is hypocrisy at it's finest.

You need to know first the purpose of a CREATOR before you can grasp what He can or cannot do. If you CREATE something surely you will cherish what you created because that's what qualifies you to be rightly called a "Creator" so arguing blindly that it's not the duty of the creator to PROTECT His own work is insincerity on your part Sir!

I'm curious. What does the word "create" mean to you? Since when did protector and creator mean the same thing? What makes something a creator, is very simple. Creating. Taking care of the creation is a choice. Not a requirement for being a creator.

A mother can give birth to a child, and put the child up for adoption. Or even straight up abandon the child. That doesn't negate the fact that she is the mother. That just makes her a bad mother. 2 different things. What qualifies her as the mother of the child, BIOLOGICALLY, is her bringing the child into the world. Nothing more.

Election or Selection comes to mind when we need the service of a leader yet the one you're voting is just a mortal man with brains like you so in what way does he/she qualifies to direct the step or set standards regarding right and wrong for millions of people?
That's the vacuum you're creating when you question the existence of a SUPREME BEING!

The hell are you talking about here? Like, this doesn't relate to the discussion, or the point I made earlier. Like....

What has any of those books said and where is the evidence that their concept is working out BENEFITS?
Come on, the Bible has produced a global family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4} during the time that most people are going for weapons to destroy lives! Revelations 6:3-4
So what else do you need to prove that only the Bible is the true word from our Creator who wants mankind to cohabit peacefully? Psalms 46:9
Ọmọ sorry you no get excuse! Romans 1:20

I won't even stress. You completely ignored my point about working your way backwards from the answer, and here you are doing it again. You're trying to prove the existence of a supreme being, from the bible, based on what the bible says about what a supreme being is supposed to be? How exactly does this whole thing work out logically for you?

The fact that you're trying to compare your preconceived notion about God, to other preconceived notion, shows you don't understand what an objective approach is.

What you fail to understand is that Gods are to be worshiped

Because??

and people do try to convince others to join in the worship of God so there must be a reason why a God should be expected to be worshiped otherwise anything could be a god to anyone and that's what brings us back to the staring point: how do we cohabit peacefully if each person just choose his/her own god and nothing to agree upon.

The way you switch from an argument about God, to an argument about peace is mind-boggling to me. Even people who worship the same God still find it hard to live peacefully. Because like I said a million times, belief in a god, is not requirement for peace. Mutual understanding and tolerance are.

You haven't presented a group of people who have successfully achieved peace and taken it to other places. In the year 2017 Vladimir Putin declared the JWs an extremist group. Most advanced nations were complaining because they know JWs in their communities are the most peaceful people while some Russians were happy that the group calling them false religions are banned. But today most Russians are crying because their sons and daughters are killed on daily basis in Ukraine.

Lmao. The fact that you believe for some reason, that the presence of JWs in Russia would have somehow prevented the war, only makes me wonder just what kind of make believe world you've developed for yourself. That being said, I have no interest in debating the current war in ukraine, since it's irrelevant to the topic. So I'll leave it at that.

It's now obvious that Vladimir Putin called out this group because they're PREACHING against hatred for neighbours whereas all others do claim they're peacelovers too. So Putin wouldn't have any issue with Buddhists or Jainists because they're not preaching to remove weapons from hearts of Russians but that's exactly what JWs are doing. Please who is truly working towards PEACE?

Whatever rocks your boat man. If believing that makes you feel better, then by all means do. I don't know why russia kicked JWs out. If you want to make a claim, I'd be happy to look at some sort of evidence, rather than just the word of mouth you're typing here on NL.

Just as you should drop the notion that an electric company can fix electrical faults shey?
Stop deceiving yourself!

Yes. If I'm trying to find out what an electric company does, and I want to be objective, I'll drop all notions about the electric company I may have held before the time. Including the notion that they repair electrical faults. As I make my inquiries and begin to learn about the electric company from scratch, I will arrive at the right conclusion. And if was true that an electric company does repair electrical faults, I would eventually arrive at the conclusion. But i would not hold the conclusion and work my way backwards.

That's like holding the notion that PHCN is responsible for birthday parties. As long as you hold the notion, any notion at all, in your inquiry, your search for truth will never be unbiased.

Tell me what you know about GOD if you're not hiding in a box because no reasonable individual can come up with the idea that a God has no specific duty towards worshipers yet it's expected that people in mass should worship that god, ọmọ don't you think before typing?

I don't claim to know anything about God. You are the one who's claiming. I'm willing to approach the concept of a God without any pre-conceived notions. You on the other hand, do not.

I was once a soldier as in military intelligence so i can prove to you that the only reason why people go to war is POLITICS!

Congratulations?? The fact that the wars you saw, if you saw any, were fought because of politics, doesn't mean ALL wars are fought for the same reason.

That's like me going to a house and seeing a yellow bulb, and assuming that ALL houses have yellow bulbs, and no other color.

If two persons have issues they can end it either by fighting to kill each other or settle it peacefully. The only reason why people pick up weapons as in a multitude against another multitude is when their two leaders disagree on who is greater as in SUPREME so stop deceiving yourself.

I'm assuming for you to have made this claim, you've studied every known war that has ever happened in history? If not, then please go and study them first before you type things like this.

Religion is all about your idea of God so there's no way that could lead to mass killings if two captains aren't involved in the battle for SUPREMACY!

Yeah. Religion never led to mass killings. Man, grab a history book.

I choose to be a JW, you choose to be an atheist, the other guy choose to be a Muslim and yet another choose to be a Traditionalist, all these can never lead to war if someone somewhere isn't planning to RULE over others.
Ọmọ leave that side because it's my field of specialization!

Obviously, you don't seem to have specialized well, if these are the kind of things you're saying.

I have proved to you what i'm saying by giving you a perfect example of a God and His worshipers so present a living proof of what you're saying if truly you're not just deceiving yourself!

An example based on what you think a god should be. Also, present a living proof of what??

You did not answer my question:
Do you honestly believe that million of Universe exist simultaneously with our own?

LordReed:
Maybe you should listen an actual cosmologist then:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR79HDEf9k8

This man opened up by saying that this is the best argument from the theological point of view.
Why would he say such?
He admits that if the universal constants change by a little, thing will change a lot

He now went off to give five objections to what he considers a terrible.


1. He is by no means convinced and Dr Craig does not give any evidence for it. We just don't know if life can exist if the physical constant change

He didn't really give any point of his number one point. If he doesn't know, what is he arguing against

2. God doesn't need to fine-tune anything. God doesn't care for the mass of the electrons.

He forgets that for there to exist order, there has to be rules. It's just like telling a programmer that he can program any computer without following any rules.


3. The constant is only apparent once we understand the physics of the universe better. We don't know the answer yet

But this is the best of physics we understand now. Arguments should be based on our current understanding of the laws of physics. It's like me arguing that 2+3=6.3 my argument based on the fact that in future a new mathematics would be invented that would justify the answer


4. Starting with Cosmological Multiverse you can arrive at the same parameters as our present universe

Unfortunately, there exist not even ONE evidence of another universe to prove this. If the Multiverse Theory is correct, we must have seen at least one of the millions.

5. Theism fails as an explanation based on the kind of universe we expect from both naturalistic views and theistic views.

He now creates Strawman arguments in what he expects creations to be under theistic views as against naturalistic view.


I was expecting some good stuff from this man being a Cosmologist but I am thoroughly disappointed in him (and this is an understatement)

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is what you should meditate upon thoroughly because if everyone in Russia and Ukraine are JWs no single person will lift up weapons against his fellowman!

Till Jesus comes, everyone cannot become nominal Christian not even to mention JW.

So, your scenario is an impossibility!

MaxInDHouse:
As for resolving problems Jesus taught us not to wait for the problem to come before we take steps to confront it {Matthew 5:25} that's why God's word called him the world's most wonderful counselor of all time! Isaiah 9:6

We are his disciples and he's our King so whatever he says is our way of RESOLVING issues Sir! John 15:14

Unfortunately, this is already a problem where both Ukraine and Russia has members who are JW.

The problem has come, what is the solution?

That's why I asked the questions
As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.

1. Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?

2. If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

TenQ:
1. Eternal
Infinite regress of cause and effect is impossible. There must be a first cause of everything

Yes. But it is also possible that our creator, could also have a creator. We create robots. We are it's cause, but certainly not a first cause. It is also possible, that whatever the cause of the universe is, also had a cause. Sure, we need to avoid infinite regress. But we could have 2, 3 or even 10 generation of causes/creators.

2. Complex/Intelligent
Do you believe that a dummy can create the physical constants in physics and chemistry and arrive at order?

I agree with the complexity, and to an extent, intelligence. But I'm not sure I'll go as far as to say that the physical constants were "created". The reason we can say the universe was, is because we know of a time when it didn't exist. Based on our current knowledge, it was because of the value of the constants, that the universe came to be the way it is. Were they formed beforehand? We simply don't know.

3. Singular
If infinite regress of cause and effect is impossible, it exclude several causes generating the first effect. The probably (from scientific point of view) is extremely low that there would be two "first cause"

I think you're mistaking first cause, with the agents responsible for that cause. For example, Helium is formed from 2 hydrogen atoms, coming together through nuclear fusion. The fusion, which results in the creation of helium, is thought of as the cause. But the agents that brought about the cause, are 2, not one, hydrogen atoms. In the case of ozone, we have 3 oxygen atoms.

The creation of the universe, which we've come to refer to as the big bang, was the "cause". The agents behind the cause, is what some people call God. In most cases, a singular one. What I'm wondering is if the agents/God behind the first cause could be multiple, just as the hydrogen atoms needed for fusion to produce helium are also multiple.

4. Conscious
If such a being is intelligent, must He not be conscious?

That is true. I'll grant you that. I don't yet understand consciousness. But the relationship between intelligence and consciousness is one I agree with.

5. Personal
If He created the universe for His purpose, and especially humans: would he not relate with his creations at a personal level?

Saying something was created is one thing. Saying you know the purpose, for which something was created is another discussion entirely. Saying the creator, would want to relate with the creation at all, talkless of on a personal level, is another world of discussions entirely too.

6. Omnipotent/ infinitely powerful
Compute the total energies stored in all of existence (stars, galaxies, planets etc) relative to what we can grasp as humans is this not infinite?
Your questions are answered!

Relative to us? Sure. But if it can be computed, If there exists a number for the amount of energy, no matter how high, then it is not infinite. But I will agree that the argument for omnipotence is a good one. Simply because we cannot know. At least, like you said, relative to us, we can grant the creators the attribute of omnipotence

TenQ:
You did not answer my question:
Do you honestly believe that million of Universe exist simultaneously with our own?


This man opened up by saying that this is the best argument from the theological point of view.
Why would he say such?
He admits that if the universal constants change by a little, thing will change a lot

He now went off to give five objections to what he considers a terrible.


1. He is by no means convinced and Dr Craig does not give any evidence for it. We just don't know if life can exist if the physical constant change

He didn't really give any point of his number one point. If he doesn't know, what is he arguing against

2. God doesn't need to fine-tune anything. God doesn't care for the mass of the electrons.

He forgets that for there to exist order, there has to be rules. It's just like telling a programmer that he can program any computer without following any rules.


3. The constant is only apparent once we understand the physics of the universe better. We don't know the answer yet

But this is the best of physics we understand now. Arguments should be based on our current understanding of the laws of physics. It's like me arguing that 2+3=6.3 my argument based on the fact that in future a new mathematics would be invented that would justify the answer


4. Starting with Cosmological Multiverse you can arrive at the same parameters as our present universe

Unfortunately, there exist not even ONE evidence of another universe to prove this. If the Multiverse Theory is correct, we must have seen at least one of the millions.

5. Theism fails as an explanation based on the kind of universe we expect from both naturalistic views and theistic views.

He now creates Strawman arguments in what he expects creations to be under theistic views as against naturalistic view.


I was expecting some good stuff from this man being a Cosmologist but I am thoroughly disappointed in him (and this is an understatement)

Read the number 1 point you yourself highlighted and tell me how it is different from what I said. And contrary to your objection he does know what he is talking about since he is a subject matter expert while you are just some guy on the internet, we do not know period.

Your disappointment is irrelevant, all you have to do is produce the evidence that contradicts him.

Also you still haven't answered why your god would be limited by these constants. I find it funny that someone who believes in an almighty god also seems to believe this almighty could not create life if the constants were different. Can you admit that that is actually contradictory?

Wilgrea7:
Why do I keep doing this to myself? Anyways
Last time I checked, electrical companies don't go door to door asking people if they have electrical problems in their home. You should really think about the analogies you use before you use them.

Thanks to social media they do go from door to door to convince people about their services, that's how they started back then!

Wilgrea7:
1) Refer to point above.
2) Do you understand the meaning of being peaceful? Or are you going to try to reinterpret it here again. To be peaceful means to avoid violence, or war. That's the simple basic definition. And many people, as well as groups, satisfy that category. Nowhere in the dictionary, is it stated that part of the requirements for being peaceful, involves going to knock on people's door to try to convert them to your religion.
Please, I'm begging you. Stop.. Twisting ... Things.

So you relied on what the dictionary says shey? Well that's why you can't find any group making peace work like JWs because a stitch in time saves nine. We take the step to make peace not keeping it all to ourselves expecting it to work!

Wilgrea7:
Shifting the goalpost as usual. You made the claim that the sole reason why people worshiped a God/Gods was for peace and protection. I showed you how that's false, and that people have worshiped gods for far more reasons. Now you're giving analogy of direct access and whatnot. Man... I just can't with you.

That's the truth collectively people worship God for peace and security but individually each person have different reasons!

Wilgrea7:
No offence. But the more this discussion goes on, the more I question whether or not you have access to google. What kind of a racist narrative are you trying to push here? I won't even try to argue for something like this.

You have no excuse for sure!

Wilgrea7:
Playing the numbers game is one of the worst arguments you can make for your faith. Regardless of your recruitment tactics, the number of followers you have has no bearing on whether your belief is true or not. The total population of muslims far outnumbers JWs. By that logic, they are more true than you. It's a really basic, and flawed thing to even say.

It's not about quantity but quality!
What is the purpose of Islam?
Nothing but bowing to the black stone in Mecca.
JWs are to gather peacelovers throughout the earth and so far so good they've erased politics, weapons and military services from the hearts of their members globally.
So they're doing exactly what their God promised! Isaiah 2:2-4

Wilgrea7:
Truth, is truth. Irrespective of the number of people who accept it. You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

Truth doesn't have a match so go to anywhere you can't find anything like the truth in Christ Jesus. What is the purpose of all other religions? Jesus is the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} and his disciples must be found in all the nations of the earth {Act 1:8} though they're not much compare to false religions but their work will be felt globally! Matthew 5:14-16

Wilgrea7:
Yes. But it is also possible that our creator, could also have a creator. We create robots. We are it's cause, but certainly not a first cause. It is also possible, that whatever the cause of the universe is, also had a cause. Sure, we need to avoid infinite regress. But we could have 2, 3 or even 10 generation of causes/creators.

The Creator is the first cause of everything and every other consciousness is an EFFECT.
Therefore, our Creator cannot have another creator as it is scientifically and logically impossible to have an infinite regress of cause and effect

Wilgrea7:
I agree with the complexity, and to an extent, intelligence. But I'm not sure I'll go as far as to say that the physical constants were "created". The reason we can say the universe was, is because we know of a time when it didn't exist. Based on our current knowledge, it was because of the value of the constants, that the universe came to be the way it is. Were they formed beforehand? We simply don't know.

The physical constants are the rules upon which everything physical is created. A little change in the physical constants results in no universe at all.

You can learn from this video by Alvin Ash (an atheist physicist)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnmssrwGcg

No one knows why the numbers are what they are. But we know they are inter-related and a change of one even by a small amount changes EVERYTHING drastically.

Every programmer uses CONSTANT

Wilgrea7:
I think you're mistaking first cause, with the agents responsible for that cause. For example, Helium is formed from 2 hydrogen atoms, coming together through nuclear fusion. The fusion, which results in the creation of helium, is thought of as the cause. But the agents that brought about the cause, are 2, not one, hydrogen atoms. In the case of ozone, we have 3 oxygen atoms.

The creation of the universe, which we've come to refer to as the big bang, was the "cause". The agents behind the cause, is what some people call God. In most cases, a singular one. What I'm wondering is if the agents/God behind the first cause could be multiple, just as the hydrogen atoms needed for fusion to produce helium are also multiple.

Your illustration as per the fussion of hydrogen atoms to create helium is very wrong

Hydrogen:
Proton=1, Neutron=0, Electron=1
Helium:
Proton=2, Neutron=2, Electron=2
There is no way two hydrogen atoms could fuse and become helium atom (where does the neutron come from?).

The big bang was not the cause of the universe it was an effect. The gravitational singularity would have remained itself for eternity as a constant UNLESS some external force (the first cause) causes it to change state.

If Minister for Power solved our Electricity problem in Nigeria in one week and we start producing 26GWatt of electricity. Buhari can truely claim he did it. And of course, it is Buhari's achievement.
One of the achievement of OBJ as president was NAFDAC. True or false.

It is a lame argument to insist that the problem solver was not the president but the minister: just as you are trying to claim that maybe there are "sub-creators" who created the universe. Why does it matter?

Wilgrea7:
That is true. I'll grant you that. I don't yet understand consciousness. But the relationship between intelligence and consciousness is one I agree with.

Okay

Wilgrea7:
Saying something was created is one thing. Saying you know the purpose, for which something was created is another discussion entirely. Saying the creator, would want to relate with the creation at all, talkless of on a personal level, is another world of discussions entirely too.

Do you think people create/make things without any purpose?
When you plant a garden, do you have a reason?

When you build a boat, do you have a reason?

When you paint a picture, do you have a reason?

When you build a bridge, do you have a reason?

You now expect the Creator of the Universe not to have any reason behind His creation?

If the Creator made the Universe for Himself and not for someone else, don't you think He would relate to it at a personal level?

Wilgrea7:
Relative to us? Sure. But if it can be computed, If there exists a number for the amount of energy, no matter how high, then it is not infinite. But I will agree that the argument for omnipotence is a good one. Simply because we cannot know. At least, like you said, relative to us, we can grant the creators the attribute of omnipotence

The word infinity or infinite is NOT a specific number. It just means so large as to dwarf the nearest computation.

Therefore, the distance of the sun to the earth may be described as infinite with respect to the diameter of a Coca-Cola bottle cover.

Just look at the power in the first atomic bomb carried by a B12 Bomber to Hiroshima. What if the bomb was the size of the earth?
The sun can contain almost a thousand earth's within its volume: how much energy do you think that is? Now our sun is one of the small stars and there are millions of stars. How much energy do you think that is?

This is why God the Creator is Infinitely powerful !

Wilgrea7:
Oh God.., Here we go again.
I don't even know how to respond to this lol. Do the societies who engage in war not also spend money to produce food? Or are JWs the only food producers in the world?

YES! They spend millions they supposed to use feeding beggars on their streets while JWs have no members begging on your streets.
Think!

Wilgrea7:
The bible is a book, meant for reading. Unless of course, you're John Wick. Then yes. The bible can be a weapon.

That's the weapon that made millions across the globe surrender without the use of guns.
We soldiers aren't just meant to kill people but make opposers surrender their weapons by using stronger weapons to force them but JWs are using the Bible and millions throughout the earth have surrendered.
Moreover worldly soldiers either to intimidate or kill their opposers but JWs reach the hearts of their opposers and caught millions alive! Mark 1:17

Wilgrea7:
Who brought the bible? Humans. Humans who claimed to have been inspired by a God.

And we can all see the success as what we read in the book became possible. Millions have become lovers of peace through studying the Bible! Isaiah 2:2-4

Wilgrea7:
Who developed the process for converting trees into paper that could be used to create books, including the bible. The same scientists.
Who developed the phone/laptop you're using? Who developed the systems for purifying water you get from the ground? Who developed the refrigerator that keeps your food cold? Who developed the car you drive to work? Let me guess.. the same "scientists"

YES! They invented papers and laptops but that's not where the informations are no longer Sir, we now have it all in our hearts {Jeremiah 31:33} so don't think we're quoting book for you naaaaaaaaaaaaa we are quoting the living words of GOD which dwells in our hearts. That's why i told you initially that you were never a Christian!

Wilgrea7:
The fact that you peddle this "Scientist vs God" ideology, only goes to show how little you know about the scientists, and the scientific method. You enjoy the benefits of other scientific discoveries without batting an eye, but start pointing fingers at scientists when it comes to weapons. I'm sorry to say, but that is hypocrisy at it's finest.

Everything God created is good, we only have problems because most people don't want to reason with God's word.

Wilgrea7:
I'm curious. What does the word "create" mean to you? Since when did protector and creator mean the same thing? What makes something a creator, is very simple. Creating. Taking care of the creation is a choice. Not a requirement for being a creator.

Keep lying to yourself. So it sounds logical to you that a sane person will CREATE but forget the creation without protecting his work shey?

Wilgrea7:
A mother can give birth to a child, and put the child up for adoption. Or even straight up abandon the child. That doesn't negate the fact that she is the mother. That just makes her a bad mother. 2 different things. What qualifies her as the mother of the child, BIOLOGICALLY, is her bringing the child into the world. Nothing more.

No sane human abandon her child when she's OK financially and physically without nothing scaring her.

Wilgrea7:
I won't even stress. You completely ignored my point about working your way backwards from the answer, and here you are doing it again. You're trying to prove the existence of a supreme being, from the bible, based on what the bible says about what a supreme being is supposed to be? How exactly does this whole thing work out logically for you?

Present another God and whatever the deity has done. Do you think it's just coincidental that all other Gods were SILENCED and swept under the carpet when the God of Abraham is known globally.

Wilgrea7:
The fact that you're trying to compare your preconceived notion about God, to other preconceived notion, shows you don't understand what an objective approach is.

Present any other God and what they've been doing!

TenQ:
Till Jesus comes, everyone cannot become nominal Christian not even to mention JW.
So, your scenario is an impossibility!
Unfortunately, this is already a problem where both Ukraine and Russia has members who are JW.
The problem has come, what is the solution?
That's why I asked the questions
As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.
1. Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?
2. If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

From 1919~2019 means a 100 years that Jesus has worked with JWs throughout the earth to gather his prospective kingdom subjects so get prepared for the showdown because this is just the beginning of the end! Matthew 24:4-14

As for your question our Master, Lord and King Christ Jesus gave us a command saying:

“Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.” Luke 21:25-28

All we need is to keep calm and believe (trust) in the God of our salvation, so it's left to you if truthfully you also believe in the God that sent Jesus! Psalms 30:15

Emusan:
Does this include your GOVERNING BODY because they are also HUMAN GOVERNMENT?



cc:
Achorladey
Courz

Na governing body of Sands not of humans. Me I don't know what they GOVERN or are GOVERNORS of

LordReed:
Read the number 1 point you yourself highlighted and tell me how it is different from what I said. And contrary to your objection he does know what he is talking about since he is a subject matter expert while you are just some guy on the internet, we do not know period.

Your disappointment is irrelevant, all you have to do is produce the evidence that contradicts him.

Even though I don't want to overflog this: his first point was a mere assertion of the fact that he unconvinced and Dr Craig didn't give him any evidence. Only for him WITHOUT any evidence claim he doesn't know if life can exist if the physical constant change.

If the Physical Constant do not change, would LIFE therefore exist? You and your pastor should be able to answer this simple question!

You see why I said that you NL Atheists treat them like Christians treat their Pastors!?
Your argument is that "he does know what he is talking about since he is a subject matter expert while you are just some guy on the internet,"
I clap for you!

And I'm asking you the same question for the third time now with no response:

Do you honestly believe that million of Universe exist simultaneously with our own?

LordReed:
Also you still haven't answered why your god would be limited by these constants. I find it funny that someone who believes in an almighty god also seems to believe this almighty could not create life if the constants were different. Can you admit that that is actually contradictory?

I am laughing in your village dialect?

1. Do you think you make any sense? After the deed is already done you are asking if God couldn't have used other constants?
It's like saying that God gave us a pair of eyes. Why couldn't He have given us 10 or 12 or even 30 eyes as He is God!
Since God is all-powerful, why didn't He make humans to have speed or why didn't God make humans to be 30feet tall!?
2. You forget that the so-called universal physical constants are OUR OWN measurements using OUR OWN measurement scales in comprehending Patterns in PHYSICAL OBSERVABLES!

God didn't tell anyone that He used any constants. It is us in the cause of measurements arrived at the conclusion of symmetries in physical observables we call constants.

It's like studying the pyramid in Egypt and observing that it is facing a perfect East-West direction, and that the ratio of the height to the base is 3.143 and the ratio of the weight to the length is exactly 6,843kg/m.
Now your question is like asking: why couldn't they make the constants different from what you have observed!

I shake my head for you falling for such a dumb question by your acclaimed "expert in the subject matter "!

MaxInDHouse:
From 1919~2019 means a 100 years that Jesus has worked with JWs throughout the earth to gather his prospective kingdom subjects so get prepared for the showdown because this is just the beginning of the end! Matthew 24:4-14

As for your question our Master, Lord and King Christ Jesus gave us a command saying:

“Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.” Luke 21:25-28

All we need is to keep calm and believe (trust) in the God of our salvation, so it's left to you if truthfully you also believe in the God that sent Jesus! Psalms 30:15

I asked you some certain practical questions that affect even you Jaws. But it seems you have no answer! I ask not about what will happen when Christ returns, I asked about JW views about their members in Ukraine AND Russia.

That's why I asked the questions
As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.
1. Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?
2. If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

There are two different questions sir!

Emusan:
Does this include your GOVERNING BODY because they are also HUMAN GOVERNMENT?

cc:
Achorladey
Courz

I didn't see this earlier!

Jesus is coming to destroy all humans who are not supporting his BROTHERS that are working to gather peacelovers throughout the earth! Matthew 25:31-46

That's why they're not governing over people in one geographical location with boarders {John 4:20} using weapons to intimidate their own subjects because their own government is SPIRIT and TRUTH {John 4:24} they are the New heavens (New government) and their subjects are the New Earth (New Subjects) both made up of peaceloving people {2Peter 3:13; Isaiah Isaiah 65:17} Isaiah has earlier explained how this government will suffice and what they will achieve with imperfect humans! Isaiah 2:2-4 compare to Micah 4:1-3

That's why Jesus could confidently say about them:
"I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world" John 17:14

Begging his father to watch over them since they're no part of you people who are worried about your human governments under Satan's control {John 14:30; 2Corinthians 4:4; 1John 5:19}

“I do not request that you take them out of the world, but that you watch over them because of the wicked one" John 17:15

So continue arguing over who should be your ruler and his vice while we focus on our own government ~ God's Kingdom !

TenQ:
I asked you some certain practical questions that affect even you Jaws. But it seems you have no answer! I ask not about what will happen when Christ returns, I asked about JW views about their members in Ukraine AND Russia.

That's why I asked the questions
As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.
1. Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?
2. If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

There are two different questions sir!

So Jesus didn't know his disciples will be affected when he was issuing the directive shey?

I thought you people also claim you believe (trust) Jesus?

Do you now see that only JWs truly believe in the Prince of Peace?

MaxInDHouse:
I didn't see this earlier!

And now that you saw it, did you attempt the question Instead mumbo jumbo full ground

So continue arguing over who should be your ruler and his vice while we focus on our own government!

Where did you see me argue over who should be my ruler? Another false accusation.

Besides, according to you "ALL human governments are EVIL...."

Does this include your GOVERNING BODY since they are ALSO HUMAN GOVERNMENT?

Emusan:
And now that you saw it, did you attempt the question Instead mumbo jumbo full ground
Where did you see me argue over who should be my ruler? Another false accusation.
Besides, according to you "ALL human governments are EVIL...."
Does this include your GOVERNING BODY since they are ALSO HUMAN GOVERNMENT?

Keep deceiving yourself!
You don't need to edit my post because honest hearted and sincere individuals will read the original post!
All your pastors are out there making prophecies about who will win or who your God is choosing. While your so called "CHRISTIANS" are agitating over the selection of rulers and their religion.

The governing body aren't human government because they're not elected by humans that's why their own subjects willingly subjected ourselves, unlike your own governments who always lord themselves over you with weapons not considering what's written in God's word {Matthew 20:25} our own weapon is God's word and nobody is above it! Ephesians 6:17

TenQ:
Even though I don't want to overflog this: his first point was a mere assertion of the fact that he unconvinced and Dr Craig didn't give him any evidence. Only for him WITHOUT any evidence claim he doesn't know if life can exist if the physical constant change.

If the Physical Constant do not change, would LIFE therefore exist? You and your pastor should be able to answer this simple question!

You see why I said that you NL Atheists treat them like Christians treat their Pastors!?
Your argument is that "he does know what he is talking about since he is a subject matter expert while you are just some guy on the internet,"
I clap for you!

And I'm asking you the same question for the third time now with no response:

Do you honestly believe that million of Universe exist simultaneously with our own?


I am laughing in your village dialect?

1. Do you think you make any sense? After the deed is already done you are asking if God couldn't have used other constants?
It's like saying that God gave us a pair of eyes. Why couldn't He have given us 10 or 12 or even 30 eyes as He is God!
Since God is all-powerful, why didn't He make humans to have speed or why didn't God make humans to be 30feet tall!?
2. You forget that the so-called universal physical constants are OUR OWN measurements using OUR OWN measurement scales in comprehending Patterns in PHYSICAL OBSERVABLES!

God didn't tell anyone that He used any constants. It is us in the cause of measurements arrived at the conclusion of symmetries in physical observables we call constants.

It's like studying the pyramid in Egypt and observing that it is facing a perfect East-West direction, and that the ratio of the height to the base is 3.143 and the ratio of the weight to the length is exactly 6,843kg/m.
Now your question is like asking: why couldn't they make the constants different from what you have observed!

I shake my head for you falling for such a dumb question by your acclaimed "expert in the subject matter "!

It seems whatever you are smoking is making you more and more dense. What part of "we don't know" are you struggling with?

LMAO! You are so high you can't even understand a simple question. If your god is almighty why are you insisting he needs some constants to produce life but you are so dense you are comparing it to eyes, for the love of Andromeda did you insist that eyes are necessary for life? How are you so stupid?

Dumbo I am not the one insisting these constants are necessary for life, that's you but when faced with how dumb the idea sounds you turn into a blithering idiot. Stop smoking cheap drugs.

LordReed:
It seems whatever you are smoking is making you more and more dense. What part of "we don't know" are you struggling with?

LMAO! You are so high you can't even understand a simple question. If your god is almighty why are you insisting he needs some constants to produce life but you are so dense you are comparing it to eyes, for the love of Andromeda did you insist that eyes are necessary for life? How are you so stupid?

Dumbo I am not the one insisting these constants are necessary for life, that's you but when faced with how dumb the idea sounds you turn into a blithering idiot. Stop smoking cheap drugs.

Read what I wrote and check your response!

Wilgrea7:
I simply said it was an intellectually honest thing to say that your view COULD be true...

It is the only standing Truth as 1 x 1 = 1 and not 11 or any other contortion you may create.

Wilgrea7:
Unlike other people, I'm not closing myself off to the possibility that my opponent could be right. But I'm not accepting it either, until I see proof.

You have already seen the proof and accepted that "it could be True", yet you say "until I see proof". Do you see now that plenty is wrong with you and that you are way below normal?

Wilgrea7:
For someone to be anti-blue, in the case of the sky, they need to say that the sky CANNOT BE BLUE.

That is not the only thing you can say to become anti-blue there are many others and if you were normal you would have known them.

MaxInDHouse:
Keep deceiving yourself!

So how is that your problem, is it your deceive?

You don't need to edit my post because honest hearted and sincere individuals will read the original post!

See painment

All your pastors are out there making prophecies about who will win or who your God is choosing.

So how are they ME? You better go back to secondary school for proper English study

While your so called "CHRISTIANS" are agitating over the selection of rulers and their religion.

So how is that your problem?

After they agitated, you'll still enjoy the fruit of their agitation but you as a coward will be hiding.

The governing body aren't human government because they're not elected by humans that's why their own subjects willingly subjected ourselves, unlike your own governments who always lord themselves over you with weapons not considering what's written in God's word {Matthew 20:25} our own weapon is God's word and nobody is above it! Ephesians 6:17

They are not HUMAN GOVERNMENT that means they're HEAVENLY GOVERNMENT

Your government didn't lord themselves over you but you dare not enter Bethel without permission

Emusan:
So how is that your problem, is it your deceive?
See painment
So how are they ME? You better go back to secondary school for proper English study
So how is that your problem?
After they agitated, you'll still enjoy the fruit of their agitation but you as a coward will be hiding.
They are not HUMAN GOVERNMENT that means they're HEAVENLY GOVERNMENT
Your government didn't lord themselves over you but you dare not enter Bethel without permission

I don't even know any bethel till today so what has that got to do with the opportunity of being welcomed into the homes of JWs worldwide?
Bethel homes are not places meant for unexpected visitors even a governing body members need permission to visit the bethel homes, you can ask anybody!

MaxInDHouse:
I don't even know any bethel till today

You can't know simply because it's being controlled by a Human Government called the Governing Body

so what has that got to do with the opportunity of being welcomed into the homes of JWs worldwide?

It has a lot because the way you will be welcome into any Jehovah witnesses homes worldwide, the Bethel home in Warwick USA can't welcome you without you getting permission and check thoroughly.

Bethel homes are not places meant for unexpected visitors even a governing body members need permission to visit the bethel homes, you can ask anybody!

Liar.....The Human Governors don't need any permission.

At least you confirm that "PERMISSION IS NEEDED" before gaining access to BETHEL

GOVERNING BODY = Human Government so according to your ALL HUMAN GOVERNMENTS are evil

MaxInDHouse:
So Jesus didn't know his disciples will be affected when he was issuing the directive shey?

I thought you people also claim you believe (trust) Jesus?

Do you now see that only JWs truly believe in the Prince of Peace?

Why was it difficult for you to answer two simple practical questions?

I trust Jesus for my future!
Jesus allows me to take personal decisions in my present.
1Cor 2:16:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
In my present especially in difficult situation, He leads me to take the right decisions (especially when I ask sincerely).

Now I ask a question about the present with Ukraine and Russia.

As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.
1. Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?
2. If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

There are two different questions sir!

MaxInDHouse:
I don't even know any bethel till today

Try to dey lie small small.

MaxInDHouse:
Most of you guys do profess faith in Jesus of Nazareth but when issues having to do with his teachings comes up you quickly trash his sayings! Matthew 15:7-8
Today Russian citizens whose sons and daughters have died in the war are crying and protesting against their own government. So who is deceiving who?
My friend the problem is politicians deceiving you people making you feel they're fighting for your good whereas all they're interested in is their ambitions.
Russia annexed Ukraine, Ukraine annexed Russia. What's the business of a true disciple of Christ whose mind is focused on God's Kingdom? Matthew 5:38-42
Please there's no problem as long as God's Kingdom is yet to come all human governments are evil whether they speak your mother tongue or Ànàgó!

You comments make me laugh

Dtruthspeaker:
It is the only standing Truth as 1 x 1 = 1 and not 11 or any other contortion you may create.

The fact that you insist on using an unrelated mathematical concept to prove a case of probability, shows how committed you are to being intellectually dishonest in this debate.

You have already seen the proof and accepted that "it could be True", yet you say "until I see proof". Do you see now that plenty is wrong with you and that you are way below normal?

What proof did you offer? Can any of us physically see a God/Gods in order to affirm its/their nature? If there is a man named mark which neither of us have never seen before, and you say he has blonde hair, and I say his hair could be black

Both inferences satisfy all logical criteria. Saying his hair could be black, or could be blonde, is accepting that both possibilities could be true, and until we see him, or a picture of him, there is no way to know for certain.

You made arguments as to why God has to be a certain way. I made arguments as to why God/Gods could be a number of ways. As far as I'm concerned, all arguments satisfy the logical criteria. Unless we can see proof to assert one claim over the other, we cannot know for sure.

So if someone says something is possible, or could be, they're accepting the probability that it can happen. But they're also accepting the probability that something else can happen. How does something this simply fly over your head?

Your problem is that you want me to take a certain stance on something, which can exist through a number of ways. You want me to assume that a ball which I cannot yet see, must be blue, or red, whereas I am simply saying it could be one, or the other, or neither. Your attack on intellectual honesty only shows your bias towards a certain point.

But of course, I expect you to ignore all of this, and repeat the useless and unrelated 1x1 analogy.

That is not the only thing you can say to become anti-blue there are many others and if you were normal you would have known them.

Now you're trying to define an arbitrary set of parameters that would make something anti-blue. When simply, in the context of the argument, it would simply mean saying something CANNOT BE blue, rather than saying something COULD BE red.

The amount of mental gymnastics you're trying to play here is appalling.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks to social media they do go from door to door to convince people about their services, that's how they started back then!

I need a second to unpack this. Thanks to SOCIAL MEDIA, they go from DOOR TO DOOR ?? Dude... What?? Secondly, I don't know of any time, in the history of any electrical company, where they go from door to door asking people if they had problems. Your argument here is head on arrival.

So you relied on what the dictionary says shey?

As per say I should ignore the dictionary and rely on the definition you fabricated in your head ba? As in. I just don't get you at times.

Well that's why you can't find any group making peace work like JWs because a stitch in time saves nine. We take the step to make peace not keeping it all to ourselves expecting it to work!

I'm not looking for any group like JWs. If you like you can put the peace in a blender and make a smoothie out of it and share to the entire community. It doesn't take away from the fact that other peaceful people, exist, both individually, and collectively. And that was the point I was trying to make.

Congratulations of going out and trying to recruit people into your community which promotes the idea that peace can only be achieved through Jesus, and belief in God and so on. Not everybody subscribes to that idea. Some people, simply take respect for other people, tolerance and understanding as the basis of peace. Doesn't make them any more or less peaceful.

Peace is abstinence from unnecessary violence. And many people, as well as groups satisfy that category. Stop trying to add your own definitions to it. Stop trying to claim monopoly over something which is not exclusive to you.

That's the truth collectively people worship God for peace and security but individually each person have different reasons!

You've gone from "people worship God solely for peace and protection", to "people worship God collectively for peace and protection, and individually for different reasons". The mental gymnastics you're tying to pull here is obvious. And terrible. A quick look through history shows that people collectively worshiped God/Gods for multiple reasons. Not just peace and protection.

But for some reason, you choose to ignore history, and insist on pushing your peace and protection narrative here.

You have no excuse for sure!

For you to blatantly say something as ignorant as "Buddhism and Jainism" are restricted to people of a certain race says enough about the way you think. I have no desire to give any attention to your biased and racist prejudice.

It's not about quantity but quality!

If it is indeed about quality and not quantity, why would you reference something as meaningless as the number of JWs in the world as evidence for whether or not it is true. You're trying to eat your cake and have it. Either quantity/number matters, or it doesn't.

If it does, Islam is more credible than you. If it doesn't then stop making reference to the number of JWs in the world. Simple.

What is the purpose of Islam?
Nothing but bowing to the black stone in Mecca.

I don't even follow Islam but i know that is one of the weakest attempt at a definition of something. I'm not here to argue for islam. So i won't join you in this slander.

JWs are to gather peacelovers throughout the earth and so far so good they've erased politics, weapons and military services from the hearts of their members globally.
So they're doing exactly what their God promised! Isaiah 2:2-4

Congratulations. That is completely irrelevant to the numbers game you were trying to play. Don't try to use "peace" to sneak your way out of this one. No one is talking about that.

Truth doesn't have a match so go to anywhere you can't find anything like the truth in Christ Jesus.

Being unique and being true are 2 different things. The story of Jesus Christ is just as unique as that of Krishna, Buddha, Vishnu, Zoroaster, and so on. They are all unique in their own ways. Doesn't mean they're right.

What is the purpose of all other religions? Jesus is the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} and his disciples must be found in all the nations of the earth {Act 1:8} though they're not much compare to false religions but their work will be felt globally! Matthew 5:14-16

No offence, but this is ignorance at its finest. If you want to define other religions in the context of how your biased religious view deems something to be true, then they'll look like falsehoods to you.

Also, if someone else tried to define Christianity, or JWs in the contect of how their biased religious views deemed something to be true, you would also look like a false religion/belief system.

If you want to know which belief system is right, there needs to be an objective approach, not one that's based on definitions already pre-conceived by the religion you want to be true. But then if there's anything this discussion has taught me, it's that objective reasoning isn't something you engage in

MaxInDHouse:
YES! They spend millions they supposed to use feeding beggars on their streets while JWs have no members begging on your streets.
Think!

That's another argument. Are there not charities and other organizations that also try to raise and spend money taking care of the less privileged? The only difference between those charity organizations and JWs, is that the latter based their actions on their sky daddy ideology.

For someone who claims not to be political, you're doing an absolutely terrible job, comparing JWs, which are a group of people, to entire governments, and countries. Either you don't understand how governments work (which wouldn't surprise me at this point), or you don't understand how basic comparison is supposed to work. A much better comparison, would be between JWs and charity organizations. Let's do that and see how it plays out.

That's the weapon that made millions across the globe surrender without the use of guns.
We soldiers aren't just meant to kill people but make opposers surrender their weapons by using stronger weapons to force them but JWs are using the Bible and millions throughout the earth have surrendered.
Moreover worldly soldiers either to intimidate or kill their opposers but JWs reach the hearts of their opposers and caught millions alive! Mark 1:17

And we can all see the success as what we read in the book became possible. Millions have become lovers of peace through studying the Bible! Isaiah 2:2-4

Of course. Of course. It's not like people have used the bible to justify wars or anything. It's also not like people in the Old Testament went around un-aliving people for the sole reason that "their God promised them land". Certainly not.

That aside, the bible, like every other book in existence, does what books do. They offer the reader a new perspective. Sometimes, the perspective is positive. Sometimes not.

YES! They invented papers and laptops but that's not where the informations are no longer Sir, we now have it all in our hearts {Jeremiah 31:33} so don't think we're quoting book for you naaaaaaaaaaaaa we are quoting the living words of GOD which dwells in our hearts. That's why i told you initially that you were never a Christian!

I'm not talking about a book. I'm talking about the technological advancements you enjoy today.

Cars that can get you from one place to another in a short amount of time. Phones that let you talk to anyone, anywhere around the world. Light bulbs that let you illuminate your surroundings when it gets dark. Gas cookers that help you heat up your food in a short period of time. Medicines that prevent you from meeting the God you love so much. The list goes on and on.

All these things were made possible thanks to the help of the same "scientists" you slander when it comes to weapons. If you want to hate science, that's fine. Just don't be hypocritical about it.

Everything God created is good, we only have problems because most people don't want to reason with God's word.

Yep. Snakes, crocodiles and poison Ivy are all wonderful things really. I love to spend my free time playing tickle tickle with crocodiles, and sniff the plant with poison Ivy.

Also, "God's word" is a completely subjective statement, and means different things to different people. What you're indeed trying to say is that we have problems because people don't follow my book. Which goes to show how little you know about the wide variety of problems we face today, and the reasons they occur.

Keep lying to yourself. So it sounds logical to you that a sane person will CREATE but forget the creation without protecting his work shey?

No sane human abandon her child when she's OK financially and physically without nothing scaring her.

I'm not here to debate why people abandon children. And I'm not condoning abandoning children. But If there's anything we can all agree on, it's that there are people, who for some reason or the other, can abandon their children.

We're not talking about a Just, Loving and Sane Creator. We're simply talking about a creator. And you don't need to be just, loving, and sane to be a creator. You only need the ability to create. That's what makes someone a creator. The other 3 are good attributes we'd like a creator to have, but they are not attributes that define what a creator is. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't turn this to an argument from emotion.

Present another God and whatever the deity has done. Do you think it's just coincidental that all other Gods were SILENCED and swept under the carpet when the God of Abraham is known globally.

Present any other God and what they've been doing!

Read my reply again and come back and respond. This is not a comparison between the different concepts of God. This is an attempt to find our way from the existence of a God, to the right concept of a God. Stop trying to work your way backwards. You want to go by your biased concept of God, to prove why your biased concept is true, based on the biased concept. A perfect circle.

Also, I've told you before. It's not a popularity contest. Truth is truth, regardless of the number of people that follow it. Stop making reference to numbers. Global recognition and popularity have no bearing on what is true. There was once a time when the vast majority of people believed that the earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around the earth, and that the earth was the center of the universe.

The view was held by the majority. But it was still wrong.

TenQ:
Why was it difficult for you to answer two simple practical questions?
I trust Jesus for my future!
Jesus allows me to take personal decisions in my present.
1Cor 2:16:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
In my present especially in difficult situation, He leads me to take the right decisions (especially when I ask sincerely).
Now I ask a question about the present with Ukraine and Russia.
As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.
1. Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?
2. If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?
There are two different questions sir!

You said you believe (trust) in Jesus shey?

OK let's see what Jesus said when the same thing happened in the first century:

The Roman government has been in control of so many cities around the Mediterranean sea including Judea (Jesus' homeland) so when he began his ministry the Jews were anticipating a revolution against Rome after all the Messiah (Christ) is now with them and according to Daniel's prophecy the Christ will conquer all the kingdoms of the world {Daniel 2:44} and establish David's throne forever! Isaiah 9:6 -7

In fact the people got fed up with Jesus' story story ministry and decided to make him King by force since all evidence points to him as the expected Messiah (Christ) but instead of Jesus to start acting in line with their quest he ran away from them! John 6:15

Even John the baptist became confused as the last prophet who also taught the people so many things about the Christ, John's confusion became obvious when he was languishing in prison and Jesus didn't come to rescue him! Matthew 11:2-3

The situation keep getting worse and what did Jesus told his disciples about Jewish revolt against Rome? He made his disciples realize that by the time the Jews start to revolt against Rome his own disciples shouldn't join rather they should run away from Jerusalem because both the city and temple will be destroyed by the Roman government! Luke 21:20-24 compare to Matthew 24:1-2

But
©Why must his disciples abandon their homeland in time of trouble?
©Can't they pick up weapons like other Jews to defend their country?
©What exactly did Jesus meant by telling faithful people to abandon JERUSALEM during times of trouble?

Now you (TenQ) in particular do you think Jesus is making any sense with this statement?
Because this is his country where his mother, brothers, sisters, cousins, uncles, aunties and many more lives so what do you think about his line of thought?

Well if you're interested in knowing the answer
to the highlighted questions just signal by typing "i want to know" and i will TEACH you. Matthew 28:20
But as for your two questions it's clear from Jesus' words that his disciples aren't supposed to support even their homeland in times of WAR. So if you believe in Jesus that's what he taught his own disciples and that's exactly what JWs always do anytime there is WAR.

May you have PEACE!

Wilgrea7:
That's another argument. Are there not charities and other organizations that also try to raise and spend money taking care of the less privileged? The only difference between those charity organizations and JWs, is that the latter based their actions on their sky daddy ideology. For someone who claims not to be political, you're doing an absolutely terrible job, comparing JWs, which are a group of people, to entire governments, and countries. Either you don't understand how governments work (which wouldn't surprise me at this point), or you don't understand how basic comparison is supposed to work. A much better comparison, would be between JWs and charity organizations. Let's do that and see how it plays out. Of course. Of course. It's not like people have used the bible to justify wars or anything. It's also not like people in the Old Testament went around un-aliving people for the sole reason that "their God promised them land". Certainly not. That aside, the bible, like every other book in existence, does what books do. They offer the reader a new perspective. Sometimes, the perspective is positive. Sometimes not. I'm not talking about a book. I'm talking about the technological advancements you enjoy today. Cars that can get you from one place to another in a short amount of time. Phones that let you talk to anyone, anywhere around the world. Light bulbs that let you illuminate your surroundings when it gets dark. Gas cookers that help you heat up your food in a short period of time. Medicines that prevent you from meeting the God you love so much. The list goes on and on. All these things were made possible thanks to the help of the same "scientists" you slander when it comes to weapons. If you want to hate science, that's fine. Just don't be hypocritical about it.
Yep. Snakes, crocodiles and poison Ivy are all wonderful things really. I love to spend my free time playing tickle tickle with crocodiles, and sniff the plant with poison Ivy. Also, "God's word" is a completely subjective statement, and means different things to different people. What you're indeed trying to say is that we have problems because people don't follow my book. Which goes to show how little you know about the wide variety of problems we face today, and the reasons they occur. I'm not here to debate why people abandon children. And I'm not condoning abandoning children. But If there's anything we can all agree on, it's that there are people, who for some reason or the other, can abandon their children. We're not talking about a Just, Loving and Sane Creator. We're simply talking about a creator. And you don't need to be just, loving, and sane to be a creator. You only need the ability to create. That's what makes someone a creator. The other 3 are good attributes we'd like a creator to have, but they are not attributes that define what a creator is. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't turn this to an argument from emotion.Read my reply again and come back and respond. This is not a comparison between the different concepts of God. This is an attempt to find our way from the existence of a God, to the right concept of a God. Stop trying to work your way backwards. You want to go by your biased concept of God, to prove why your biased concept is true, based on the biased concept. A perfect circle. Also, I've told you before. It's not a popularity contest. Truth is truth, regardless of the number of people that follow it. Stop making reference to numbers. Global recognition and popularity have no bearing on what is true. There was once a time when the vast majority of people believed that the earth was flat, and that the sun revolved around the earth, and that the earth was the center of the universe. The view was held by the majority. But it was still wrong.

You think by typing long epistles i'll get bored and stop responding to you shey?
Keep deceiving yourself.

If we want to know whether a God exists or not the first step is to ask:
Is there any race on this planet that doesn't believe in God? ~ answer: None!
Is there any culture that teaches that Gods can be seen with ordinary eyes? ~ answer: None!

So it's established that all races believe in God which shows that Gods do exist. But then how can we verify what exists but we can't see?
That's why we must ask those claiming God exists to explain their God and the visible works of their invisible God as EVIDENCE!

So stop deceiving yourself because you can't see God/Gods the only way to prove that God/Gods exist is the WORKS of these Gods.

Do you believe in radio waves?
Can people see it?
Borrow a leaf from these two questions because radio waves exists but only when it's put to work that we can perceive that it exists!

LordReed:
Try to dey lie small small.

Na wah o!
So Mr Atheist self dey read my posts.
Well the truth is that i only see the bethel homes on magazines and i once travelled through the place where the one built in Benin is situated but i've never visited any since i've been with the JWs.