MaxInDHouse:


Now this is where the Bible is incomparable to whatever you might have heard about other Gods!

First of all the Bible explained when the idea of someone being chosen to rule over others started, that's the meaning of the tree of good and evil God strictly warned the first human pair not to eat. Genesis 2:17

According to that book the one and only ruler who supposed to set standards for right and wrong among humans is God {Psalms 83:18} not humans because nepotism will surely lead humans to prejudice {Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9} that's why the true God didn't appoint a King over His people until they demanded for a human king like other nations {1Samuel 8:5} even though the idea sounds really bad in the hearing of Samuel God's prophet {1Samuel 8:6} yet the true God told Samuel to give them what they wanted, in fact the true God uttered a statement that clearly shows it's the job of God to provide all what a ruler supposed to do for His people! 1Samuel 8:7

Then God told Samuel to explain to the people what the king they're demanding will require of them {1Samuel 8:10-18} but they insisted on their demand! 1Samuel 8:19-20

Out of all the deities ever known on this planet it's only the God of Israel that gave His people a written constitution of over 600 laws, and do you know the significance of those laws? Well it's to maintain law and order (PEACE) among his people! Mark 12:28-31

That's why Jehovah's Witnesses are confident to stand before anybody to prove to you that there is no other God apart from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who knows the root cause of mankind's troubles which is the struggle among humans over whose right is it to set standards for right and wrong (Rulership)

So let it be known today that the major role of a SUPREME BEING is to maintain PEACE among His worshipers in the absence of that such a being is not supreme but lesser spirits creatures ~ demons!

Jesus H. B. Christ. My head is almost beginning to hurt having to say the same thing all over again.

You're presenting your worldview, which is based on your concept of what a God is, or how a God should be.

I'm not talking about the concept of God in other religions. I couldn't care less about them.

You brought up the notion of a supreme being, and i showed you why a supreme being, if it exists, could choose to act in a million ways towards humans, and not necessarily be the loving, “wants to rule", peace bringing one you're trying to argue for.

I showed you how it could be one of multiple possibilities. And you simply went on to say why one possibility is true, based on nothing more than your preconceived notions.

I've literally said multiple times, that you cannot approach the existence of a God objectively if you don't let go of the preconceived notions you already have.

Your only “proof" for why a God, if it exists, has to be a certain way, is nothing more than a book, which was written by a couple of people over thousands of years. And the proof that the book is true, is because of your notion that a God has to be a certain way, which is shown in the book.

This type of reasoning isn't just a perfect circle.. it is the most perfect of circles. It's so perfectly circular, it makes other circles look like squares

Wilgrea7:


Jesus H. B. Christ. My head is almost beginning to hurt having to say the same thing all over again.

You're presenting your worldview, which is based on your concept of what a God is, or how a God should be.

I'm not talking about the concept of God in other religions. I couldn't care less about them.

You brought up the notion of a supreme being, and i showed you why a supreme being, if it exists, could choose to act in a million ways towards humans, and not necessarily be the loving, “wants to rule", peace bringing one you're trying to argue for.

I showed you how it could be one of multiple possibilities. And you simply went on to say why one possibility is true, based on nothing more than your preconceived notions.

I've literally said multiple times, that you cannot approach the existence of a God objectively if you don't let go of the preconceived notions you already have.

Your only “proof" for why a God, if it exists, has to be a certain way, is nothing more than a book, which was written by a couple of people over thousands of years. And the proof that the book is true, is because of your notion that a God has to be a certain way, which is shown in the book.

This type of reasoning isn't just a perfect circle.. it is the most perfect of circles. It's so perfectly circular, it makes other circles look like squares

GOD exists and that's why a global family of peace loving worshipers having the same line of thought have emerged as He promised {Isaiah 2:2-4} you just don't want to agree with the truth deceiving yourself as if you want to reason with others when you've gotten the preconceived thought that no matter the evidence is brought before you you will never accept faith in God again.

Well that's what false religions does to people after you've followed them wholeheartedly having wrong expectations about God.
I know you must be one of those churchgoers who keeps ignoring or driving away Jehovah's Witnesses (true disciples of Christ) so finding out the truth now really makes you uncomfortable as you're prepared to speak against the truth that's clear to everyone.

I asked you again: Present any group of worshipers whose God has made a promise and fulfilled it like JEHOVAH the God of Israel!

MaxInDHouse:

GOD exists and that's why a global family of peace loving worshipers having the same line of thought have emerged as He promised {Isaiah 2:2-4} you just don't want to agree with the truth deceiving yourself as if you want to reason with others when you've gotten the preconceived thought that no matter the evidence is brought before you you will never accept faith in God again.

Well that's what false religions does to people after you've followed them wholeheartedly having wrong expectations about God.
I know you must be one of those churchgoers who keeps ignoring or driving away Jehovah's Witnesses (true disciples of Christ) so finding out the truth now really makes you uncomfortable as you're prepared to speak against the truth that's clear to everyone.

I asked you again: Present any group of worshipers whose God has made a promise and fulfilled it like JEHOVAH the God of Israel!

I literally just showed you why you're engaging in circular reasoning in regards to the concept of a God.. and you went ahead to produce a reply that engages in even more circular reasoning??

Man... You know what?... I'm sorry. You win this one

Wilgrea7:

I literally just showed you why you're engaging in circular reasoning in regards to the concept of a God.. and you went ahead to produce a reply that engages in even more circular reasoning??
Man... You know what?... I'm sorry. You win this one

My guy you're lying to your own soul!

I used the illustration of electric company and you swallowed it because it goes along with your atheistic ideology but then you want to build a wall around yourself when it comes to PRACTICAL APPLICATION with regards to SUPREME BEING. How can you deny the one and only reason mankind throughout history have been worshiping God/Gods?

The one and only reason why people worship God is for protection and peace so the idea that the supreme being has no duty towards the adherents is your own fabrication just to continue living in denial of facts.

I know what is your problem, you've decided to erase the idea of God completely in your heart so meeting a believer who now gives you indisputable logical reasoning regarding the topic makes you feel really bad.

Ọmọ i once dabble into atheism but then i realized that there's no wisdom in atheism.

KNOWLEDGE is the accumulation of useful information, i want you to know today that all the living creatures today have a measurable amount of that.

But as for WISDOM only true worshipers of God can possess it because it's the practical application of accumulated information which results in lasting benefits.

Of course atheism will give you knowledge as they're making research on science and they want to limit your thinking faculty only to things you can see but then wisdom is the only key to enjoy what science and technology can produce to the fullest. That becomes extremely impossible when you and your cohorts decided to remove the idea of the SUPREME BEING.

Russia and Ukraine are at war today and it's gradually becoming the third world war, atheists often blame religion for wars but it's becoming more and more obvious now that it's not religion but POLITICS just as God's word (Bible) taught us that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (politics) will lead mankind to a disastrous end! Genesis 2:17

Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy both had a disagreement on what is right or wrong and instead of using God's word to settle the matter they both turned to science and technology using different destructive devices against one another. That is what Jehovah's Witnesses have been preaching for over 100 years now from 1919-2019 when COVID-19 put a break to it and now the war has began.
Don't ever think peace can be achieved by human reasoning because it's impossible but if you want to deny that please present an organization that has succeeded in removing the use of weapons in settling disputes from the hearts of their members apart from Jehovah's Witnesses, the one and only group of true believers!

Ok.. I will do my best one last time, to explain my points in as much detail as possible, because it seems you've been completely missing everything I've been saying, since the beginning.

Let's begin.

MaxInDHouse:


My guy you're lying to your own soul!

Thanks

I used the illustration of electric company and you swallowed it because it goes along with your atheistic ideology but then you want to build a wall around yourself when it comes to PRACTICAL APPLICATION with regards to SUPREME BEING.

When did i "swallow" any illustration? I showed you why the illustration of the electric company does NOT work. Believers, A.K.A followers of a certain faith, cannot be compared to electricians. Electricians, or the electric company, solves problems for people THAT DON'T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE of how the electrical circuits work.

You said believers, that is, people who follow a certain faith, are somehow comparable to the electrical company in respect to peace. And I said that, is wrong. Because matters relating to peace, are things that are known to humans IRRESPECTIVE OF RELIGION/BELIEF SYSTEM. Peace, comes from mutual understanding, and tolerance. Not any particular belief system. I further said that the attributes needed for peace are things that exist in humans on an individual level, and that you don't need any religion to establish it.

And what did you do? You went ahead to change the meaning of believers from followers of a certain faith, to simply people who trust one another. That's one of the worst word gymnastics I've seen someone pull in a while. And then you claimed that people need to trust each other. Like I've been saying anything contrary to that.

And when I called you out on your mental gymnastics, you went ahead to ignore the entire part and focus on the part of the supreme being. And you dare accuse ME of fabrication??

You kept making mentions to how JWs are peaceful and what not, because of your belief. But if you actually spent your time searching for other peaceful faiths, like buddhism, and Jainism, you would see that you have no exclusive claim to peace. There are christians who are not JWs, who live peaceful lives. Some muslims too.. and some hindus, and yes, even some atheists. Because Peace, is, has been, and always will be based on individuals, not on any specific belief system or religion

How can you deny the one and only reason mankind throughout history have been worshiping God/Gods?

The one and only reason why people worship God is for protection and peace so the idea that the supreme being has no duty towards the adherents is your own fabrication just to continue living in denial of facts.

Either you have not studied history, or you're simply being insincere. Mankind throughout history has worshiped God/Gods for a large number of reasons. Wealth, Health, Victory in war when they go to KILL their enemies, Favor, POWER, peace. The list foes on and on.

To say that mankind worshiped deities SOLELY for the purpose of peace and protection, and NOTHING ELSE, is simply being insincere. Before you accuse me of being in denial, read up on actual history. Or else don't make false accusations.

I know what is your problem, you've decided to erase the idea of God completely in your heart so meeting a believer who now gives you indisputable logical reasoning regarding the topic makes you feel really bad.

I've not encountered this "indisputable logical reasoning" you speak of. You've been making circular arguments since morning. And in case you don't know, circular arguments are the farthest thing from logical.

Ọmọ i once dabble into atheism but then i realized that there's no wisdom in atheism.

Congratulations

This thing is going to be in-depth, so i decided to break it down into 2 parts.

MaxInDHouse:


KNOWLEDGE is the accumulation of useful information, i want you to know today that all the living creatures today have a measurable amount of that.

But as for WISDOM only true worshipers of God can possess it because it's the practical application of accumulated information which results in lasting benefits.

Ok... I see what you're trying to do here. You're trying to define wisdom in the context of belief, and not just belief in any God, but your specific God. No need for the dodgy approach. Secondly, what do you mean by practical application which results in lasting benefits? Because if you go by those standards, a lot of innovators, believers and non-believers alike will fall into that category.

Of course atheism will give you knowledge as they're making research on science and they want to limit your thinking faculty only to things you can see but then wisdom is the only key to enjoy what science and technology can produce to the fullest.

This statement right here, physically hurts my brain. Like,.. sometimes I just wonder how people come up with these kind of ideas. What in Ra's name do you mean by research on science? How does acquiring scientific knowledge threaten a belief in God? Who on earth told you people, that scientific discoveries, or scientific knowledge, in any way, try to undermine God? How on earth does simple lacking a belief in something, undermine someone's thinking faculty?

That becomes extremely impossible when you and your cohorts decided to remove the idea of the SUPREME BEING.

I've said it a million times, and I will say it again. No one is removing the idea of a supreme being. If you've actually gone through this thread, or at least the first 2 posts here, you will see that I'm clearly talking about multiple concepts of what a creator COULD BE.

YOU... are the ones who say that if a creator exists, it has to be a certain way. And when I ask for proof, you go ahead and draw me a perfect circle.

There is a big difference between saying,

1) A person built this robot
2) The person that built this robot is a Man, named Jeff, with Light skin, blue eyes, A honda and 3 children

All throughout this thread, I've not been arguing for whether or not a supreme being exists. I've led a lot of my statements with the phrase "A God, if it exists..." because I'm not trying to prove, or disprove the existence of God. How many times do I have to say it?

You on the other hand, in this debate, are not just saying that a God exists, you're also claiming that it has certain characteristics, like It wants to/is obligated to rule us, to bring peace, protect us, and other things like that. I gave you 5 different examples, to show why the existence of a supreme being, does not entitle you to anything.

You made reference to people electing leaders, and I showed you why it's a terrible analogy. I showed you the clear difference between a leader who is elected from among his people, and a God, who created people.

And what did you do then, you went ahead to show me why your biased concept of a God, which is based on nothing more than the bible, is the correct one. You forget one very important fact. When arguing for what concept of a God is correct, religious books like the Bible, Quran, Vedas and the rest CANNOT serve as proof. Why, because they already push a certain concept already.

You don't work solve a problem backwards. You don't provide the answer and try to find your way back to the question. You work your way FROM THE QUESTION, TO A POSSIBLE ANSWER.

Just as you've used your bible to try and prove the concept of a God you believe in, other books, and religions, could be used to do the same, for different concepts of God.

You keep talking about peace, and that the correct concept or whatever, has to be the one that promotes peace. I have told you several times. That to say that the right concept of a God, HAS TO BE A CERTAIN WAY, is to already hold preconceived beliefs on what a God should be. AND THAT IS NOT AN OBJECTIVE WAY TO APPROACH THINGS.

You accused me of "building a wall around myself" in regards to things relating to a supreme being, but in reality, you're the one doing that. I've said it a million times that if you want to approach the concept of a God OBJECTIVELY, then you need to drop ALL preconceived notions on what you think a God should be, or do.

But no. You keep running to the bible to reinforce your preconceived, notions. You keep making reference to things like peace, politics and wars across other religions to reinforce the notions you already have. Irrelevant topics to what the concept of a God could be. And you accuse ME of building the wall around myself?

Russia and Ukraine are at war today and it's gradually becoming the third world war, atheists often blame religion for wars but it's becoming more and more obvious now that it's not religion but POLITICS just as God's word (Bible) taught us that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (politics) will lead mankind to a disastrous end! Genesis 2:17

If I survive this migraine, I'll be grateful to whatever being exists out there. Wars are started for a large number of reasons. For you to throw the word "politics" out there, as the SOLE REASON simply shows that you don't know nearly enough about why wars start. Sure, political wars happen. But religious wars also happen.

Vladimir Putin and Volodymyr Zelenskyy both had a disagreement on what is right or wrong and instead of using God's word to settle the matter they both turned to science and technology using different destructive devices against one another.

My man, if you don't know the reasons for the invasion/war, just say so. Saying something as arbitrary and vague as "what is right and wrong" is not doing much to show you actually have an idea about why things are happening the way they are. That being said, I'm not denying that it is a political war.

Secondly, saying they should've used "God's word" is going back to the preconceived notions I was talking about. You have no idea how circular the statement sounds.

Honestly, I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over again. I tried to make this explanation as comprehensive as possible. I'm really tired of this meaningless back and forth, especially if you want to keep bringing up the same points and going round in circles. If you're ready to approach things objectively, you let me know.

Adios.

Wilgrea7:
Ok.. I will do my best one last time, to explain my points in as much detail as possible, because it seems you've been completely missing everything I've been saying, since the beginning.
Let's begin.
Thanks
When did i "swallow" any illustration? I showed you why the illustration of the electric company does NOT work. Believers, A.K.A followers of a certain faith, cannot be compared to electricians. Electricians, or the electric company, solves problems for people THAT DON'T HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE of how the electrical circuits work.
You said believers, that is, people who follow a certain faith, are somehow comparable to the electrical company in respect to peace. And I said that, is wrong. Because matters relating to peace, are things that are known to humans IRRESPECTIVE OF RELIGION/BELIEF SYSTEM. Peace, comes from mutual understanding, and tolerance. Not any particular belief system. I further said that the attributes needed for peace are things that exist in humans on an individual level, and that you don't need any religion to establish it.
And what did you do? You went ahead to change the meaning of believers from followers of a certain faith, to simply people who trust one another. That's one of the worst word gymnastics I've seen someone pull in a while. And then you claimed that people need to trust each other. Like I've been saying anything contrary to that.
And when I called you out on your mental gymnastics, you went ahead to ignore the entire part and focus on the part of the supreme being. And you dare accuse ME of fabrication??
You kept making mentions to how JWs are peaceful and what not, because of your belief. But if you actually spent your time searching for other peaceful faiths, like buddhism, and Jainism, you would see that you have no exclusive claim to peace. There are christians who are not JWs, who live peaceful lives. Some muslims too.. and some hindus, and yes, even some atheists. Because Peace, is, has been, and always will be based on individuals, not on any specific belief system or religion

I will take you back to the illustration of electric company:
Note that no company can perform their duty if the inhabitants don't welcome their idea so the JWs aren't welcomed in any society that's why we only speak with individuals in order to make each of them a member of the group.
And you err again saying Buddhism or Jainism are peaceful. Well that's where you failed woefully because real peacemakers don't wait for people to search but they are the ones who makes sacrifices to go in search of lovers of peace. So your Buddhism and Jainism case is dead on arrival as they're not going from house to house and door to door in search of lovers of peace!

Wilgrea7:

Either you have not studied history, or you're simply being insincere. Mankind throughout history has worshiped God/Gods for a large number of reasons. Wealth, Health, Victory in war when they go to KILL their enemies, Favor, POWER, peace. The list foes on and on.
To say that mankind worshiped deities SOLELY for the purpose of peace and protection, and NOTHING ELSE, is simply being insincere. Before you accuse me of being in denial, read up on actual history. Or else don't make false accusations.

There you go again showing how unintelligent you are!
If you have direct access to a ruler surely what you will ask for will be personal, that's why each person differs in what they look for in a deity but when it comes to collectivity people in general only ask for peace and security from a deity just as Nigerians as a whole will ask for peace and security from their ruler. It's only when you have direct access to Buhari that you can speak about personal needs!

Wilgrea7:

I've not encountered this "indisputable logical reasoning" you speak of. You've been making circular arguments since morning. And in case you don't know, circular arguments are the farthest thing from logical.
Congratulations

Indisputable is what you can't present another concept or idea that's working out BENEFITS like it. For instance Buddhism and Jainism is restricted to a particular race because the ideas can't work elsewhere that's why those practicing it can't confidently promote it elsewhere apart from few geographical locations. But as for the TRUTH my guy Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully gathered millions throughout the earth just as Jesus Christ foretold! Act 1:8

So stop deceiving yourself!

Wilgrea7:
Happy Sunday people,

One common topic that gets brought up in discussions between theists and non-believers, is the existence of a God, who created everything we know to exist. After all, why is there something rather than nothing?

Theists usually consider the design of the universe, the intricacy and complexity of everything, as evidence for an omnipotent, intelligent, and complex designer.

Common attributes assigned to this creator often include;

1. Eternal
2. Complex/Intelligent
3. Singular
4. Conscious
5. Personal
6. Omnipotent/ infinitely powerful

My question is, why exactly does it have to be this way? Based on our current observation of the universe, we can accept that it was intelligently, or consciously designed. But the attributes of the alleged creator, seem like a bit of a jump to me.

I'll give some examples below.

1. Eternal
Infinite regress of cause and effect is impossible. There must be a first cause of everything
2. Complex/Intelligent
Do you believe that a dummy can create the physical constants in physics and chemistry and arrive at order?
3. Singular
If infinite regress of cause and effect is impossible, it exclude several causes generating the first effect. The probably (from scientific point of view) is extremely low that there would be two "first cause"
4. Conscious
If such a being is intelligent, must He not be conscious?
5. Personal
If He created the universe for His purpose, and especially humans: would he not relate with his creations at a personal level?
6. Omnipotent/ infinitely powerful
Compute the total energies stored in all of existence (stars, galaxies, planets etc) relative to what we can grasp as humans is this not infinite?

Your questions are answered!

LordReed:


My own observations don't lead me to accept that conclusion. My understanding of the physical laws of the universe around us shows that what we call order is the effects of these laws stacking up on themselves, one could almost say the universe is reiterative with reiterations producing sometimes novel effects. There doesn't appear to be any conscious drive in this order/stacking/reiteration nor does it appear to be intelligent, just repetitive. I would like to know why your own observations leads you to accept such a conclusion.

Are you saying that the universe would still have existed if just one of the universal constants were to change by just 5%?

TenQ:

Are you saying that the universe would still have existed if just one of the universal constants were to change by just 5%?

We have no way of knowing, it is quite possible a different type of universe would have occurred but with a sample size of one we are only left with speculation.

Wilgrea7:
This thing is going to be in-depth, so i decided to break it down into 2 parts.
Ok... I see what you're trying to do here. You're trying to define wisdom in the context of belief, and not just belief in any God, but your specific God. No need for the dodgy approach. Secondly, what do you mean by practical application which results in lasting benefits? Because if you go by those standards, a lot of innovators, believers and non-believers alike will fall into that category.

Whatever makes people spend millions of dollars which could be diverted into production of food and other things that can make life sweeter into building destructive weapons only to kill people is evidence of lack of wisdom. Only JWs have successfully achieved that! Isaiah 2:2-4

Wilgrea7:

This statement right here, physically hurts my brain. Like,.. sometimes I just wonder how people come up with these kind of ideas. What in Ra's name do you mean by research on science? How does acquiring scientific knowledge threaten a belief in God? Who on earth told you people, that scientific discoveries, or scientific knowledge, in any way, try to undermine God? How on earth does simple lacking a belief in something, undermine someone's thinking faculty?
I've said it a million times, and I will say it again. No one is removing the idea of a supreme being. If you've actually gone through this thread, or at least the first 2 posts here, you will see that I'm clearly talking about multiple concepts of what a creator COULD BE.

How much does a Bible cost?
How much does AK-47 cost?
Well the Bible is a weapon just as AK-47 is also a weapon. But the advantage of the Bible is that it kills the evil in the hearts of men and preserve them alive while the AK-47 kills the person living you with dead neighbours.
Who brought the Bible? God!
Who invented AK-47? Scientists!
But if the producers of AK-47 has listened to God's word PEACE would have been their gain and they wouldn't have invented what is of no lasting benefits! Isaiah 48:17-18

Wilgrea7:

YOU... are the ones who say that if a creator exists, it has to be a certain way. And when I ask for proof, you go ahead and draw me a perfect circle.

There is a big difference between saying,

1) A person built this robot
2) The person that built this robot is a Man, named Jeff, with Light skin, blue eyes, A honda and 3 children

All throughout this thread, I've not been arguing for whether or not a supreme being exists. I've led a lot of my statements with the phrase "A God, if it exists..." because I'm not trying to prove, or disprove the existence of God. How many times do I have to say it?

You need to know first the purpose of a CREATOR before you can grasp what He can or cannot do. If you CREATE something surely you will cherish what you created because that's what qualifies you to be rightly called a "Creator" so arguing blindly that it's not the duty of the creator to PROTECT His own work is insincerity on your part Sir!

Wilgrea7:

You on the other hand, in this debate, are not just saying that a God exists, you're also claiming that it has certain characteristics, like It wants to/is obligated to rule us, to bring peace, protect us, and other things like that. I gave you 5 different examples, to show why the existence of a supreme being, does not entitle you to anything.
You made reference to people electing leaders, and I showed you why it's a terrible analogy. I showed you the clear difference between a leader who is elected from among his people, and a God, who created people.

Election or Selection comes to mind when we need the service of a leader yet the one you're voting is just a mortal man with brains like you so in what way does he/she qualifies to direct the step or set standards regarding right and wrong for millions of people?
That's the vacuum you're creating when you question the existence of a SUPREME BEING!

Wilgrea7:

And what did you do then, you went ahead to show me why your biased concept of a God, which is based on nothing more than the bible, is the correct one. You forget one very important fact. When arguing for what concept of a God is correct, religious books like the Bible, Quran, Vedas and the rest CANNOT serve as proof. Why, because they already push a certain concept already.
You don't work solve a problem backwards. You don't provide the answer and try to find your way back to the question. You work your way FROM THE QUESTION, TO A POSSIBLE ANSWER.

What has any of those books said and where is the evidence that their concept is working out BENEFITS?
Come on, the Bible has produced a global family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4} during the time that most people are going for weapons to destroy lives! Revelations 6:3-4
So what else do you need to prove that only the Bible is the true word from our Creator who wants mankind to cohabit peacefully? Psalms 46:9
Ọmọ sorry you no get excuse! Romans 1:20

Wilgrea7:

Just as you've used your bible to try and prove the concept of a God you believe in, other books, and religions, could be used to do the same, for different concepts of God.
You keep talking about peace, and that the correct concept or whatever, has to be the one that promotes peace. I have told you several times. That to say that the right concept of a God, HAS TO BE A CERTAIN WAY, is to already hold preconceived beliefs on what a God should be. AND THAT IS NOT AN OBJECTIVE WAY TO APPROACH THINGS.

What you fail to understand is that Gods are to be worshiped and people do try to convince others to join in the worship of God so there must be a reason why a God should be expected to be worshiped otherwise anything could be a god to anyone and that's what brings us back to the staring point: how do we cohabit peacefully if each person just choose his/her own god and nothing to agree upon.
You haven't present a group of people who have successfully achieved peace and taken it to other places. In the year 2017 Vladimir Putin declared the JWs an extremist group. Most advanced nations were complaining because they know JWs in their communities are the most peaceful people while some Russians were happy that the group calling them false religions are banned. But today most Russians are crying because their sons and daughters are killed on daily basis in Ukraine.
It's now obvious that Vladimir Putin called out this group because they're PREACHING against hatred for neighbours whereas all others do claim they're peacelovers too. So Putin wouldn't have any issue with Buddhists or Jainists because they're not preaching to remove weapons from hearts of Russians but that's exactly what JWs are doing. Please who is truly working towards PEACE?

Wilgrea7:

You accused me of "building a wall around myself" in regards to things relating to a supreme being, but in reality, you're the one doing that. I've said it a million times that if you want to approach the concept of a God OBJECTIVELY, then you need to drop ALL preconceived notions on what you think a God should be, or do.

Just as you should drop the notion that an electric company can fix electrical faults shey?
Stop deceiving yourself!

Wilgrea7:

But no. You keep running to the bible to reinforce your preconceived, notions. You keep making reference to things like peace, politics and wars across other religions to reinforce the notions you already have. Irrelevant topics to what the concept of a God could be. And you accuse ME of building the wall around myself?

Tell me what you know about GOD if you're not hiding in a box because no reasonable individual can come up with the idea that a God has no specific duty towards worshipers yet it's expected that people in mass should worship that god, ọmọ don't you think before typing?

Wilgrea7:

If I survive this migraine, I'll be grateful to whatever being exists out there. Wars are started for a large number of reasons. For you to throw the word "politics" out there, as the SOLE REASON simply shows that you don't know nearly enough about why wars start. Sure, political wars happen. But religious wars also happen.
My man, if you don't know the reasons for the invasion/war, just say so. Saying something as arbitrary and vague as "what is right and wrong" is not doing much to show you actually have an idea about why things are happening the way they are. That being said, I'm not denying that it is a political war.

I was once a soldier as in military intelligence so i can prove to you that the only reason why people go to war is POLITICS!
If two persons have issues they can end it either by fighting to kill each other or settle it peacefully. The only reason why people pick up weapons as in a multitude against another multitude is when their two leaders disagree on who is greater as in SUPREME so stop deceiving yourself. Religion is all about your idea of God so there's no way that could lead to mass killings if two captains aren't involved in the battle for SUPREMACY!
I choose to be a JW, you choose to be an atheist, the other guy choose to be a Muslim and yet another choose to be a Traditionalist, all these can never lead to war if someone somewhere isn't planning to RULE over others.
Ọmọ leave that side because it's my field of specialization!

Wilgrea7:

Secondly, saying they should've used "God's word" is going back to the preconceived notions I was talking about. You have no idea how circular the statement sounds.
Honestly, I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over again. I tried to make this explanation as comprehensive as possible. I'm really tired of this meaningless back and forth, especially if you want to keep bringing up the same points and going round in circles. If you're ready to approach things objectively, you let me know. Adios.

I have proved to you what i'm saying by giving you a perfect example of a God and His worshipers so present a living proof of what you're saying if truly you're not just deceiving yourself!

LordReed:


We have no way of knowing, it is quite possible a different type of universe would have occurred but with a sample size of one we are only left with speculation.

We already have enough information at our disposal.

Avin Ash is an atheist -physicist
He gives a theoretical background into these constant: you may wish to skip to the last two minutes for his conclusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnmssrwGcg

I also ask you to listen to two Pastors.
Pastor Richard Dawkins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5O--OSa9mg

And Pastor Craig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs9ZXJAgiNE

Atheists do everything to avoid the obvious!

MaxInDHouse:


I was once a soldier as in military intelligence so i can prove to you that the only reason why people go to war is POLITICS!

Is Ukraine going to war against Russia politics?
How?
What would you have advised Ukraine to do in the face of Russian aggression (Don't forget that in 2014, Russia seized Cremia from Ukraine)?

Thanks

TenQ:

Is Ukraine going to war against Russia politics?
How?
What would you have advised Ukraine to do in the face of Russian aggression (Don't forget that in 2014, Russia seized Cremia from Ukraine)?
Thanks

YES! It's humans that are living in Ukraine and it's humans that's living in Russia so if Ukrainians aren't going for war against their neighbours in Russia the first step to take is call their leader and demand that he speak with the leader of Russia so both men can come to agreement over whatever issue is between them {Matthew 5:25} whoever picks up weapons in support of either Putin or Zelenskyy is not a lover of peace.
That's what Jesus reproved Peter for when his enemies sent soldiers to arrest him, note that if Jesus has allowed his disciples to fight for him it would have become a war because Jesus already had thousands of disciples back then {John 12:19} so it's not just the twelve but they can't fight because that's not what he taught them to do in the face of opposition or rivalry! Matthew 5:43-48

So Ukrainians are also going for war from the standpoint of the military intelligence otherwise they only need to raise white flags throughout Ukraine as a sign of solidarity to whatever the commanding officer who is leading the advancing army wants!

May you have PEACE!

TenQ:

We already have enough information at our disposal.

Avin Ash is an atheist -physicist
He gives a theoretical background into these constant: you may wish to skip to the last two minutes for his conclusion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPnmssrwGcg

I also ask you to listen to two Pastors.
Pastor Richard Dawkins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5O--OSa9mg

And Pastor Craig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs9ZXJAgiNE

Atheists do everything to avoid the obvious!

I don't get why you linked these videos. The physicist doesn't make any conclusions, Dawkins is obviously against the idea of a god being the cause and Craig is not an atheist, so what exactly is your point?

Wilgrea7:

Wrong analogy. We're not discussing mathematics here. We're discussing about the nature of something we cannot see, and cannot verify.

Not wrong but right. We are laying down Solid irrefutable Truth Truth which I have shown you and now you have seen. 1 x 1 = 1

But you want it to be 1 x 1 = 11 or some other answer as you can concoct. That is the analogy and I know you got it but you just do not want to accept it, as is your right..

Wilgrea7:

If I prove to you that the sky is blue, rather than red, would you say I am anti-sky?

Nope! Not "anti-sky" but anti-red. While anyone who says the sky is red is and will be "anti-blue".

That is how it works. Now I am convinced that you really have serious understanding and comprehension issues.

LordReed:


I don't get why you linked these videos. The physicist doesn't make any conclusions, Dawkins is obviously against the idea of a god being the cause and Craig is not an atheist, so what exactly is your point?

Alvin Ash(An Atheist)
concluded that we must have bought a cosmic lottery to exist!
Then he asked a rhetorical question: How many tickets did we buy?
Dawkins (An Atheist) conclusion was that any idea of God should be thrown out of the window for his Multiverse Theory!
Multiverse Theory is still a speculation for which not a single verifiable evidence support!
Craig (A Christian)
uses the same physics to show that the origin of the Universe must have come from an intelligent source.

MaxInDHouse:

YES! It's humans that are living in Ukraine and it's humans that's living in Russia so if Ukrainians aren't going for war against their neighbours in Russia the first step to take is call their leader and demand that he speak with the leader of Russia so both men can come to agreement over whatever issue is between them {Matthew 5:25} whoever picks up weapons in support of either Putin or Zelenskyy is not a lover of peace.
That's what Jesus reproved Peter for when his enemies sent soldiers to arrest him, note that if Jesus has allowed his disciples to fight for him it would have become a war because Jesus already had thousands of disciples back then {John 12:19} so it's not just the twelve but they can't fight because that's not what he taught them to do in the face of opposition or rivalry! Matthew 5:43-48

So Ukrainians are also going for war from the standpoint of the military intelligence otherwise they only need to raise white flags throughout Ukraine as a sign of solidarity to whatever the commanding officer who is leading the advancing army wants!

May you have PEACE!

A very simplistic view I must say.

Russia want a number of things from Ukraine
1. First option: annex Ukraine to Russia
2. Second Option: Make Ukraine a Puppet of Russia
3. Third option: Annex the whole of the Donbas Region, down to the sea port of Mariupol, down to the port at Odessa.
Effectively cutting off Ukraine from any of her access to the sea and making it a land locked nation. It means that Ukraine would have to depend on Russia for her imports and exports.

If you are the President of Ukraine, how would you discuss or negotiate with Putin (who is bent on having his way)
Will you support annexation of Ukraine to Russia to have peace?
Will you arrange how Ukraine can be a puppet of Russia for the sake of peace?
Will you opt to give Russia the Donbas Region AND all the sea ports of Ukraine and thus have to depend on Russia for international trades?
Over to you Maximus!

TenQ:

A very simplistic view I must say.

Russia want a number of things from Ukraine
1. First option: annex Ukraine to Russia
2. Second Option: Make Ukraine a Puppet of Russia
3. Third option: Annex the whole of the Donbas Region, down to the sea port of Mariupol, down to the port at Odessa.
Effectively cutting off Ukraine from any of her access to the sea and making it a land locked nation. It means that Ukraine would have to depend on Russia for her imports and exports.

If you are the President of Ukraine, how would you discuss or negotiate with Putin (who is bent on having his way)
Will you support annexation of Ukraine to Russia to have peace?
Will you arrange how Ukraine can be a puppet of Russia for the sake of peace?
Will you opt to give Russia the Donbas Region AND all the sea ports of Ukraine and thus have to depend on Russia for international trades?
Over to you Maximus!

You don't need to demonize one politician just to make the other look like an angel.
I told you from the onset:

It's humans that are living in Ukraine and it's humans that's living in Russia

So if the ruler of Russia decides to extend his boarders in order to make Ukraine part of Russia there's no crime after all he's not making Ukrainians slaves to Russians rather he's trying to reclaim states that broke away from Russia. Then Ukrainians only need to surrender to the will of Russia their former country instead of planning a siege which has led to killings between the two countries.

If i live as a Nigerian or Cameroonian or Togolese the only difference is whatever name you give the country we will still live under the rulership of our fellow humans not God. So it's no big issue!

This same thing occurred in the first century. Jesus of Nazareth preached about God's Kingdom but Jews were anticipating a revolution against Rome. So everything Jesus taught this people fell on deaf ears because they're bent on been ruled by a fellow Jew and Jesus told them that God's kingdom has been taken away from them and given to another nation producing it's fruit {Matthew 21:43} so they shouldn't think of Romans as enemies but keep praying for God's Kingdom to come {Matthew 6:9-10} when everyone will gain freedom from human domination! Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9

Whether you claim to be a Nigerian or you're claiming Cameroonian politicians only need your support or effort to fight for their selfish ambitions, you will still remain a subject to either side there's no difference!

MaxInDHouse:

You don't need to demonize one politician just to make the other look like an angel.
I told you from the onset:

Ukraine did not invade Russia. It's the opposite.
Even till today, Ukraine has not fired one bullet into Russia.
Ukraine has not made any demand from Russia except to be left alone.

In 2014, Russia took Cremia and annexed it to Russia and Ukraine did not fight back to reclaim it.

So, who is the bad person here?

MaxInDHouse:

So if the ruler of Russia decides to extend his boarders in order to make Ukraine part of Russia there's no crime after all he's not making Ukrainians slaves to Russians rather he's trying to reclaim states that broke away from Russia. Then Ukrainians only need to surrender to the will of Russia their former country instead of planning a siege which has led to killings between the two countries.

Ukraine was never part of Russia. Ukraine was part of the former Soviet Union with Russia as the capital. They speak different languages.

I guess you were this simplistic about the issues because your little understanding of the historical bond between Russia and Ukraine.

MaxInDHouse:

If i live as a Nigerian or Cameroonian or Togolese the only difference is whatever name you give the country we will still live under the rulership of our fellow humans not God. So it's no big issue!

This same thing occurred in the first century. Jesus of Nazareth preached about God's Kingdom but Jews were anticipating a revolution against Rome. So everything Jesus taught this people fell on deaf ears because they're bent on been ruled by a fellow Jew and Jesus told them that God's kingdom has been taken away from them and given to another nation producing it's fruit {Matthew 21:43} so they shouldn't think of Romans as enemies but keep praying for God's Kingdom to come {Matthew 6:9-10} when everyone will gain freedom from human domination! Ecclesiastes 4:1; 8:9

Whether you claim to be a Nigerian or you're claiming Cameroonian politicians only need your support or effort to fight for their selfish ambitions, you will still remain a subject to either side there's no difference!

Let me simplify the problem for you.
Scenario ONE:
Boko Haram seized the Government power and demanded that henceforth
1. All Muslims pay zero tax
2. All Christians pay 60% tax
3. No more religious gathering of whatever form except at the Masjid on Fridays
What will you do?

Bokoharam are humans under God
Scenario TWO:
Because of Governments complicit action with "bandits", they randomly enter Christian homes at random and perform havocs from stealing, rape, kidnap and demand heavy ransom.
Will you prepare to defend yourself in case the bandits come to your house?

Bandits are humans under God

Scenario THREE:
You are the President of Nigeria, would you disband the Army, Police and all who carry arms?


Thank you

TenQ:

Alvin Ash(An Atheist)
concluded that we must have bought a cosmic lottery to exist!
Then he asked a rhetorical question: How many tickets did we buy?
Dawkins (An Atheist) conclusion was that any idea of God should be thrown out of the window for his Multiverse Theory!
Multiverse Theory is still a speculation for which not a single verifiable evidence support!
Craig (A Christian)
uses the same physics to show that the origin of the Universe must have come from an intelligent source.

And your point is?

LordReed:


And your point is?

Alvin Ash spoke of the statistical improbability of a situation with a change in physical constant producing another universe occuring. He says, "we must have won a cosmic lottery".

Your mentor Dawkins dismissed with no reason that an architect was behind the Universe BUT went on to support the Multiverse Theory (also without an iota of evidence). For him any other argument is okay as long as it doesn't relate to God.
He is a biased man that cannot be trusted.

Craig used the same physics to explain why there has to be an architect behind the creation of the Universe.

In summary:
There is enough information available to make reasonable conclusions. Study all the arguments and choose that which seem reasonable to you. Reason must be without sentiments. Pastor Dawkins and Pastor Craig were chosen so that you can listen to their arguments and adopt an unbiased logical view.

TenQ:

Alvin Ash spoke of the statistical improbability of a situation with a change in physical constant producing another universe occuring. He says, "we must have won a cosmic lottery".

Your mentor Dawkins dismissed with no reason that an architect was behind the Universe BUT went on to support the Multiverse Theory (also without an iota of evidence). For him any other argument is okay as long as it doesn't relate to God.
He is a biased man that cannot be trusted.

Craig used the same physics to explain why there has to be an architect behind the creation of the Universe.

In summary:
There is enough information available to make reasonable conclusions. Study all the arguments and choose that which seem reasonable to you. Reason must be without sentiments. Pastor Dawkins and Pastor Craig were chosen so that you can listen to their arguments and adopt an unbiased logical view.

First off I dunno where you got the idea that Dawkins is my mentor, I guess you were going for some kind of humour. Well jokes on you since I haven't even read any of his books.

Secondly, I guess in your eagerness to present me in some kind of gotcha situation didn't read what I wrote properly. Here it is again:

LordReed:


We have no way of knowing, it is quite possible a different type of universe would have occurred but with a sample size of one we are only left with speculation.

As Alvin Ash says, how many tickets did we buy?

BTW are you saying your god is limited by these constants? That would be funny.

TenQ:

Ukraine did not invade Russia. It's the opposite.
Even till today, Ukraine has not fired one bullet into Russia.
Ukraine has not made any demand from Russia except to be left alone.
In 2014, Russia took Cremia and annexed it to Russia and Ukraine did not fight back to reclaim it.
So, who is the bad person here?

None is good or bad as far as i'm concerned, as long as they're all humans having rulers over them. Whether Russia or Ukraine both meant countries where humans rule over them.

Ukraine was never part of Russia. Ukraine was part of the former Soviet Union with Russia as the capital. They speak different languages.

I guess you were this simplistic about the issues because your little understanding of the historical bond between Russia and Ukraine.

They were both together before shey? So what's the difference nah?

Let me simplify the problem for you.
Scenario ONE:
Boko Haram seized the Government power and demanded that henceforth
1. All Muslims pay zero tax
2. All Christians pay 60% tax
3. No more religious gathering of whatever form except at the Masjid on Fridays
What will you do?
Bokoharam are humans under God
Scenario TWO:
Because of Governments complicit action with "bandits", they randomly enter Christian homes at random and perform havocs from stealing, rape, kidnap and demand heavy ransom.
Will you prepare to defend yourself in case the bandits come to your house?
Bandits are humans under God
Scenario THREE:
You are the President of Nigeria, would you disband the Army, Police and all who carry arms?
Thank you

You just keep complicating issues!
Neither Russia nor Ukraine represent any form of religious group so the case remains 100% political. If Ukrainians become Russians it's the same treatment Russians will get as well as Ukrainians under that government.

You should have said America came and demand that Nigeria becomes one of their states so that our leaders will be under American government, the same treatment as Americans are experiencing over there.
Whoever picks up weapons in support of either side is not fighting a just course from the standpoint of Jesus Christ of Nazareth the same way the military intelligence will view the matter because whether blacks or whites you will still remain a subject (citizen)
I am a Christian so i can't be the president of any country, whoever wants to rule should go there and perform whatever he feels all i know is that things will continue to get worse until God's Kingdom comes to wipe all human governments away! Daniel 2:44

LordReed:


First off I dunno where you got the idea that Dawkins is my mentor, I guess you were going for some kind of humour. Well jokes on you since I haven't even read any of his books.

It was actually a joke.
But most atheists on NL take these people like Christians take their Pastors and Apostles

LordReed:

Secondly, I guess in your eagerness to present me in some kind of gotcha situation didn't read what I wrote properly. Here it is again:

As Alvin Ash says, how many tickets did we buy?

You got me wrong here: I wasn't trying to present you in any gotcha situation

Dawkins seem to have his explanation based on the existence of millions of universe (occuring simultaneously with our universe). Of course you know that not one of these multiverse has been found

You on the other hand claims that if the physical constants were changed, it will result into the creation of another kind of universe.

Physics already showed the effect of having some of the universal constant changed by a small factor (the universe wouldn't exist). The theory of multiverse was created because of this (to decrease the statistical improbability). That was why I wanted you to first listen to Alvin Ash, before Dawkins and finally Craig.

Do you honestly believe that million of Universe exist simultaneously with our own?



My conclusion still remains this:
There is enough information available to make reasonable conclusions. Study all the arguments and choose that which seem reasonable to you. Reason must be without sentiments. Pastor Dawkins and Pastor Craig were chosen so that you can listen to their arguments and adopt an unbiased logical view.

MaxInDHouse:

None is good or bad as far as i'm concerned, as long as they're all humans having rulers over them. Whether Russia or Ukraine both meant countries where humans rule over them.

They were both together before shey? So what's the difference nah?

You just keep complicating issues!
Neither Russia nor Ukraine represent any form of religious group so the case remains 100% political. If Ukrainians become Russians it's the same treatment Russians will get as well as Ukrainians under that government.

You should have said America came and demand that Nigeria becomes one of their states so that our leaders will be under American government, the same treatment as Americans are experiencing over there.
Whoever picks up weapons in support of either side is not fighting a just course from the standpoint of Jesus Christ of Nazareth the same way the military intelligence will view the matter because whether blacks or whites you will still remain a subject (citizen)
I am a Christian so i can't be the president of any country, whoever wants to rule should go there and perform whatever he feels all i know is that things will continue to get worse until God's Kingdom comes to wipe all human governments away! Daniel 2:44

As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.

Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?

If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

TenQ:

It was actually a joke.
But most atheists on NL take these people like Christians take their Pastors and Apostles


You got me wrong here: I wasn't trying to present you in any gotcha situation

Dawkins seem to have his explanation based on the existence of millions of universe (occuring simultaneously with our universe). Of course you know that not one of these multiverse has been found

You on the other hand claims that if the physical constants were changed, it will result into the creation of another kind of universe.

Physics already showed the effect of having some of the universal constant changed by a small factor (the universe wouldn't exist). The theory of multiverse was created because of this (to decrease the statistical improbability). That was why I wanted you to first listen to Alvin Ash, before Dawkins and finally Craig.

Do you honestly believe that million of Universe exist simultaneously with our own?



My conclusion still remains this:
There is enough information available to make reasonable conclusions. Study all the arguments and choose that which seem reasonable to you. Reason must be without sentiments. Pastor Dawkins and Pastor Craig were chosen so that you can listen to their arguments and adopt an unbiased logical view.

Maybe you should listen an actual cosmologist then:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR79HDEf9k8

TenQ:

As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.

Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?

If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

Most of you guys do profess faith in Jesus of Nazareth but when issues having to do with his teachings comes up you quickly trash his sayings! Matthew 15:7-8

Today Russian citizens whose sons and daughters have died in the war are crying and protesting against their own government. So who is deceiving who?
My friend the problem is politicians deceiving you people making you feel they're fighting for your good whereas all they're interested in is their ambitions.
Russia annexed Ukraine, Ukraine annexed Russia. What's the business of a true disciple of Christ whose mind is focused on God's Kingdom? Matthew 5:38-42
Please there's no problem as long as God's Kingdom is yet to come all human governments are evil whether they speak your mother tongue or Ànàgó!

MaxInDHouse:


Most of you guys do profess faith in Jesus of Nazareth but when issues having to do with his teachings comes up you quickly trash his sayings! Matthew 15:7-8

Today Russian citizens whose sons and daughters have died in the war are crying and protesting against their own government. So who is deceiving who?
My friend the problem is politicians deceiving you people making you feel they're fighting for your good whereas all they're interested in is their ambitions.
Russia annexed Ukraine, Ukraine annexed Russia. What's the business of a true disciple of Christ whose mind is focused on God's Kingdom? Matthew 5:38-42
Please there's no problem as long as God's Kingdom is yet to come all human governments are evil whether they speak your mother tongue or Ànàgó!

I asked the questions because I know that JW are in both Russia and Ukraine. Because it seemed you don't mind if Russia decided to annex Ukraine, so I asked:

As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.

Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?

If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

Dtruthspeaker:


Not wrong but right. We are laying down Solid irrefutable Truth Truth which I have shown you and now you have seen. 1 x 1 = 1

But you want it to be 1 x 1 = 11 or some other answer as you can concoct. That is the analogy and I know you got it but you just do not want to accept it, as is your right..

I'm really not in the mood to start arguing mathematics here. I simply said it was an intellectually honest thing to say that your view COULD be true... but so could mine... and without being able to verify, there would be no way to know for sure.

Unlike other people, I'm not closing myself off to the possibility that my opponent could be right. But I'm not accepting it either, until I see proof. Because that would be the only way to verify who is wrong or who is right. It's not a big deal. Stop trying to make a mountain out of a molehill

Nope! Not "anti-sky" but anti-red. While anyone who says the sky is red is and will be "anti-blue".

That is how it works. Now I am convinced that you really have serious understanding and comprehension issues.

You're the one who's not understanding. You're the one who called me anti-God, for simply offering alternative concepts of God. That's why I gave the example of multiple colors of the sky. Also, calling something anti-blue or anti-red doesn't make sense. Offering alternative concepts of a god, doesn't mean I'm anti the concept you hold. For me to be anti-something, I need to actively oppose it.

For someone to be anti-blue, in the case of the sky, they need to say that the sky CANNOT BE BLUE, not that the sky is red, or another color. Those are 2 different statements. And if you can't differentiate them, then I'm not sure what more i can do for this discussion.

I never tried to prove that the monotheistic concept of God CANNOT EXIST. I only showed other possible concepts that could also possibly work.

TenQ:

I asked the questions because I know that JW are in both Russia and Ukraine. Because it seemed you don't mind if Russia decided to annex Ukraine, so I asked:

As far as you are concerned, it is okay if Russia demand that Ukraine be annexed to their country.

Would it be okay if Ukraine also demand that Russia be annexed into their country?

If both is okay: how do you resolve the problem?

The highlighted is what you should meditate upon thoroughly because if everyone in Russia and Ukraine are JWs no single person will lift up weapons against his fellowman!

As for resolving problems Jesus taught us not to wait for the problem to come before we take steps to confront it {Matthew 5:25} that's why God's word called him the world's most wonderful counselor of all time! Isaiah 9:6

We are his disciples and he's our King so whatever he says is our way of RESOLVING issues Sir! John 15:14

MaxInDHouse:
Please there's no problem as long as God's Kingdom is yet to come all human governments are evil whether they speak your mother tongue or Ànàgó!

Does this include your GOVERNING BODY because they are also HUMAN GOVERNMENT?



cc:
Achorladey
Courz