₦airaland Forum

jasminer:
He fulfilled His word by hardening Pharoah's mind.

According to the cases I dropped, did he interfer or not?

Namdio:
For this, you have to understand the man's intention. He did it because he didn't want to have children on his brother's behalf, not because they had mutually agreed to not have children and were using it as a method to prevent contraception.

https://biblehub.com/genesis/38-9.htm

He did it out of spite and made Tamar suffer unjustly, so he was killed.

Did he interfere or not?

Namdio:
For this, you have to understand the man's intention. He did it because he didn't want to have children on his brother's behalf, not because they had mutually agreed to not have children and were using it as a method to prevent contraception.

https://biblehub.com/genesis/38-9.htm

He did it out of spite and made Tamar suffer unjustly, so he was killed.

By spilling his seed on the ground, wasn't he killing his potential children?

Why sleep with a woman when you know you won't keep to your end of the bargain? Isn't that injustice to the woman?

kingxsamz:
Did he interfere or not?

Yes he did interfer to fulfill his word, to answer the prayers of the Israelites who have been praying for justice and freedom

Same way he interferes to answer my prayers when I pray

kingxsamz:
Then why did you bring up the "it was a norm" talk when I brought up the Buhari case if you didn't consider it right?

I don't see how the 2 relate please explain

jasminer:
Let me give you a revision of the Laws of God

1. He doesn't interfer in your actions
2. What you sow, you'll reap
3. His word doesn't break no matter what and if the first stated law conflicts with the second law, the second law will trump.
That is to say: if God not interfering will make you avoid reaping what you have sown, God will interfer.

If he doesn't interfer, he wouldn't have done all the things I mentioned that he did.
If another law can triumph one of his previous laws then his words do break.

jasminer:
Yes he did interfer to fulfill his word, to answer the prayers of the Israelites who have been praying for justice and freedom

Same way he interferes to answer my prayers when I pray

_

jasminer:
We're back to God doesn't interfer in the decisions of man

So you agree you were wrong?

kingxsamz:
If he doesn't interfer, he wouldn't have done all the things I mentioned that he did.
If another law can triumph one of his previous laws then his words do break.

The law is being fulfilled. He didn't interfere, because if he did, something outside of those laws would have happened. But the man sowed (or rather didn't show, lol) and the law was fulfilled. He reaped.

How the reaping came is not relevant. It is the reaping

Namdio:
The law is being fulfilled. He didn't interfere, because if he did, something outside of those laws would have happened. But the man sowed (or rather didn't show, lol) and the law was fulfilled. He reaped.

How the reaping came is not relevant. It is the reaping

Let me even excuse that one because it's sketchy. How about the decision of the people to build a tower and live together?
He interfered in their plan. At least we can agree on that.

kingxsamz:
If he doesn't interfer, he wouldn't have done all the things I mentioned that he did.
If another law can triumph one of his previous laws then his words do break.

If I pray, God hears and answers. That's also one of His laws: When His children call Him in sincerity, He hears and answers.

Pharaoh afflicted people, he must be afflicted one way or the other as well. Israelites prayed for freedom, justice etc. God hardened Pharoah's heart, Pharaoh got punished , Pharoah gave the children of Israel freedom. Which law was broken?

But if I pray in sincerity that the devil should be forgiven, doesn't that break the law of karma? So God won't answer me. Does it mean that God's word has been broken? No, he maintained His word by not granting my request.

Omo this one na micro course in Christianity oooo

Namdio:
I don't see how the 2 relate please explain

I brought up the case of killing children, she said it's because it had to be done, so I brought up the Buhari case and you said it was the norm back then. Isn't that you justifying it? I already know it was the norm back then but I'm bringing up the Buhari case because you both agree that killing the children and babies was the right thing to do. If it can be right back then why should it be wrong now if Buhari does it?

kingxsamz:
Let me even excuse that one because it's sketchy. How about the decision of the people to build a tower and live together?
He interfered in their plan. At least we can agree on that.

Did He tell them to stop building? Or place an angel in front of the tower like He did in Eden?

They could still find a way to keep building but they didn't

kingxsamz:
I brought up the case of killing children, she said it's because it had to be done, so I brought up the Buhari case and you said it was the norm back then. Isn't that you justifying it? I already know it was the norm back then but I'm bringing up the Buhari case because you both agree that killing the children and babies was the right thing to do. If it can be right back then why should it be wrong now if Buhari does it?

I said wrong example.

Now try again

jasminer:
Did He tell them to stop building? Or place an angel in front of the tower like He did in Eden?

They could still find a way to keep building but they didn't

Actually but I still have to agree, he did interfere

jasminer:
If I pray, God hears and answers. That's also one of His laws: When His children call Him in sincerity, He hears and answers.

Pharaoh afflicted people, he must be afflicted one way or the other as well. Israelites prayed for freedom, justice etc. God hardened Pharoah's heart, Pharaoh got punished , Pharoah gave the children of Israel freedom. Which law was broken?

But if I pray in sincerity that the devil should be forgiven, doesn't that break the law of karma? So God won't answer me. Does it mean that God's word has been broken? No, he maintained His word by not granting my request.

Omo this one na micro course in Christianity oooo

Pharoah's heart was hardened against his will.
The people building the tower were confused against their will because they wanted to be one.
In conclusion, the Christian god does interfere in man's decisions. Simple as that. You can't say that something is white then argue within same breath that it's black.

Namdio:
I said wrong example.

Now try again

And what makes it wrong?

jasminer:
Did He tell them to stop building? Or place an angel in front of the tower like He did in Eden?

They could still find a way to keep building but they didn't

Do you think those builders wanted to be confused?
The intention was to confuse them so as they won't be able to live as one. Which worked perfectly. Task carried out, goal achieved. Simple as that.

kingxsamz:
Do you think those builders wanted to be confused?
The intention was to confuse them so as they won't be able to live as one. Which worked perfectly. Task carried out, goal achieved. Simple as that.

Without interfering in their decision

kingxsamz:
Pharoah's heart was hardened against his will.
The people building the tower were confused against their will because they wanted to be one.
In conclusion, the Christian god does interfere in man's decisions. Simple as that. You can't say that something is white then argue within same breath that it's black.

Lolz ... Even though Pharoah's heart was hardened, Pharaoh could still have decided to release them just like he did in the end. God never softened Pharaoh's heart. So if he hardened it, it still didn't stop Pharaoh's from obeying after several warnings

kingxsamz:
So you agree you were wrong?

Then I take back my previous statement. God didn't interfer with Pharaoh's actions. God interfered with the thought making process but still Pharaoh still had the ability to let them go like he finally did

kingxsamz:
Pharoah's heart was hardened against his will.
The people building the tower were confused against their will because they wanted to be one.
In conclusion, the Christian god does interfere in man's decisions. Simple as that. You can't say that something is white then argue within same breath that it's black.

Technically, we have no idea if his heart was hardened against his will. Hitchen's razor applies here.

Second, if they truly wanted a tower, they could have paused the construction and spent some time learning each other's language, or at least training some people to be interpreters. The fact that they didn't shows they had no dedication to the work.

They faced a set back and ran away as a result.

I can't disagree that God doesn't interfere (after all he did send Jesus to us) but I also can't agree.

jasminer:
Then I take back my previous statement. God didn't interfer with Pharaoh's actions. God interfered with the thought making process but still Pharaoh still had the ability to let them go like he finally did

Do you know Pharoah was remorseful and agreed he had sinned at that point but his heart was hardened by force. Any how you look at it, his decision was influenced.

kingxsamz:
And what makes it wrong?

Because one situation is one people to a different one. Another is infighting.

jasminer:
Without interfering in their decision

Their decision was to live as one and he interfered by confusing them in order to break that bond, which worked.
You're just pretending not to know it at this point.

kingxsamz:
Do you know Pharoah was remorseful and agreed he had sinned at that point but his heart was hardened by force. Any how you look at it, his decision was influenced.

Pharaoh agreed he had sinned because he went through tribulations. If you beat a child the child will say anything.

Showing remorse doesn't mean someone influenced your decision. It means that you would have done differently in light of current circumstances.

Namdio:
Technically, we have no idea if his heart was hardened against his will. Hitchen's razor applies here.

Second, if they truly wanted a tower, they could have paused the construction and spent some time learning each other's language, or at least training some people to be interpreters. The fact that they didn't shows they had no dedication to the work.

They faced a set back and ran away as a result.

I can't disagree that God doesn't interfere (after all he did send Jesus to us) but I also can't agree.

The point is the Christian god confused them on purpose because he knows what the end result will be. Even if they learned each other's languages, he would probably find more means to stop them, because stopping them was the main goal.
She's wrong any how you guys put it.

to involve yourself in a situation when your involvement is not wanted or is not helpful:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/interfere

In the case of Pharaoh, the Israelites invited God, so He didn't interfere.

Edit: it was also helpful

Namdio:
Pharaoh agreed he had sinned because he went through tribulations. If you beat a child the child will say anything.

Showing remorse doesn't mean someone influenced your decision. It means that you would have done differently in light of current circumstances.

Except his heart was hardened by force in order to make him take a certain decision which might have been different from what he intended.

Namdio:
Because one situation is one people to a different one. Another is infighting.

I told you to assume that Igbo land wasn't part of Nigeria at all. If Igbo land was its own country, would it be right for Buhari to kill every child from there because Igbo men have been causing havoc in Nigeria?

kingxsamz:
Except his heart was hardened by force in order to make him take a certain decision.

I don't think that's how that works

to stop having kind or friendly feelings for someone or caring about something

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harden%20one's%20heart

Pharaoh never had kind feelings for the Israelites, if not he wouldn't have made them suffer in the first place, or ordered the killing of the Hebrew Males.

If we are considering the context, Pharaoh's heart was probably hardened towards Moses, as they had grown up together.

Since his heart was already hardened, there was no way that would have influenced his decisions in anyway

kingxsamz:
I told you to assume that Igbo land wasn't part of Nigeria at all. If Igbo land was its own country, would it be right for Buhari to kill every child from there because Igbo men have been causing havoc in Nigeria?

No

Namdio:
No

Was it right for the Christian god to send men to kill every child because men from the Amalekite kingdom have been causing havoc in Israel or to Israelites?