HisSplendor:


Mathew 27:54

"When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

AntiChristian:


So by saying he was the son of God is what makes them Christian to you?

AntiChristian:


Anuofia!

thorpido:
Onye iberibe.I furu efu.

HisSplendor:


By Abraham submitting to God, does that make him a Muslim to you?

And answer me, if you believe Jesus to be the Son of God today, won't you become a Christian?

Answer the 2 questions.

AntiChristian:


At least tell what people can verify!

1. Not one of the disciples saw Jesus die on the cross.

triplechoice:

It's about time you looked into the mirror my friend.

No one can also verify if any angel appeared intermittently to unlettered Muhammad for a period of 23years to make him recite the Quran.

Morever, none of the scribes ,who were claimed to have helped him pen down the Quran, witnessed for once any such angel encounter in all of that period or were they privy to it in anyway until the so called angel stopped appearing.

You like to think your religion, Islam, is superior or perfect because of the inconsistencies or lies you can easily spot in the other one, but what you're simply not aware of at the moment, is that yours contains similar kind of unverifiedl stories or claims, which you're completely blind to and afraid to question.

And it's really pathetic to see your open threads every now and then to question the beliefs of others when you should be questioning yours first.



Religious indoctrination, especially the one from the two popular abrahamic religion, which are actually false religious construct of the same kind, is sometimes the worst thing that can happen to any human being.

I have been there before,so I talk from experience.
.

AntiChristian:


The thread is not about Islam.
Talk about this thread!

triplechoice:


The thread is about you, Antichristian, attempting to present Islam ,through the backdoor, as the more superior one to Christianity, and I just explained to you it's not.
Both are false religious constructs.


Your true identity is known by most here, and so you can't hide behind" This thread is not about Islam" when it's implicitly about it.

triplechoice:

It's about time you looked into the mirror my friend.

No one can also verify if any angel appeared intermittently to unlettered Muhammad for a period of 23years to make him recite the Quran.

Morever, none of the scribes ,who were claimed to have helped him pen down the Quran, witnessed for once any such angel encounter in all of that period or were they privy to it in anyway until the so called angel stopped appearing.

You like to think your religion, Islam, is superior or perfect because of the inconsistencies or lies you can easily spot in the other one, but what you're simply not aware of at the moment, is that yours contains similar kind of unverifiedl stories or claims, which you're completely blind to and afraid to question.

And it's really pathetic to see you open threads every now and then to question the beliefs of others when you should be questioning yours first.



Religious indoctrination, especially the one from the two popular abrahamic religion, which are actually false religious construct of the same kind, is sometimes the worst thing that can happen to any human being.

I have been there before,so I talk from experience.
.

thorpido:
@bold,this is the most laughable part of their belief.They try to rubbish other people's faith whereas theirs stand on unverifiable and hollow grounds. One man claims to have seen an angel and there was no witness.The Bible even says the devil can appear as an angel of light.

And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:14.No prophet before him also points to him having such encounter.
Yet they hate apostle Paul and claim he cannot know Jesus since he was not one of the twelve disciples.
He's indeed a pathetic fellow.

AntiChristian:


So by the same argument we can say Paul who wrote about 14 out of 27 Books of the Bible was met by the Devil who appeared as the angel of light (Jesus). After all , Paul was the one writing the story himself!

Abeg, if you can't comment on the thread, go create you own thread!

thorpido:
Lol,truth hits home.

AntiChristian:
Three Gods exists in the trinity namely:
The father,
Son (Jesus),
and the Holy spirit!

All of them are one yet different! Among the three, the son became human and died for three days leaving only the father and spirit in the world!

Trinity hence became duality for three days when Jesus died!

Was there a time God was incomplete?

AntiChristian:


Where did i mention Islam in the thread?

OgaNightmare:

Carry your mumu proselytizing and leave this place... nonsensical nonsense
Advocatejare abeg drop more trinitarian qoutes from the Koran

AntiChristian:


Yes, submission to Allah's command is what makes us Muslims. In addition, Abraham never worshipped three Gods in one! He was never an idolator nor a believer in vicarious atonement of Jesus!

But only believing Jesus was a son of God is nowhere near the definition of Christianity!

1. They never believed Jesus died for their sins!

2. In Genesis 6:1-4, Sons of God came to sleep with pretty women! Are they Jesus's brothers or related to him?

3.Blesses are the peace makers for they shall be called sons of God! Matthew 5:9

So as you can see, sons of God can mean a Prophet, Angel, or simply a metaphor!

God needs no son or helper to die for Him.

HisSplendor:


The moment you understand that God is Himself both Son and Father, you'll know that no one ever helped God. It's hard to comprehend for you being a human because human beings can't be father and son at the same time. But take note. God can. Your limitation isn't God's limitation.

Abraham submitted himself to God. Yeah that's true. That doesn't make him a Muslim. He never worshipped Allah, knew no mosque, had nothing to do with the crescent and star, never faced mecca to pray, did no ablution. No prophet did those things. Only Mohammad.

For your information, Jesus and all his disciples submitted themselves to God, but they weren't Muslims. I and many followers of Christ are in complete submission to God today, but we aren't Muslims.

When will you wake up my brother?

Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. God has many sons. We are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. But Christ alone is the only begotten.

That was Christ's claim. That was the basis of which the Roman soldiers zealously tortured Him to death. That was what those over 100 soldiers at the foot of the cross later came to realize, which made them say "Surely this was the Son of God."

Many Soldiers, including members of Herod's and Ceasar's household became Christians.

However, the solders were not the only witnesses of what happened on the cross:

"But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things." (Luke 23:49)

triplechoice:


You don't need to mention it . It's what you represent.

You can continue to bury your head in the sand.

NairaLTQ:

Very dumb argument.

TenQ just finished you on a thread of Allah inspired PROSTITUTION!

Why don't you explain how:
Jesus is a MAN, the WORD of ALLAH and the SPIRIT of ALLAH at the same time?

Since both the Word and Spirit are not physical, did Jesus cease to be the Word and Spirit immediately he was born?

TenQ is your master: when he deals with you , you'll all start running to the admin to ban him and delete his posts.

AntiChristian:


I think you should keep mute as you have nothing relevant to say!

AntiChristian:
This is your first foolishness! How can God the father be the same as God the son? So you mean the father was actually telling us lies that "this is my beloved son in whom i'm well pleased!" Or that Jesus said he was going to his God! So God is worshipping himself, even in the Lord's prayer Jesus affirms his father is in heaven! Abeg! Stop fooling yourself! Even on the cross Jesus was telling himself Eli Eli lama sabachtani? My God My God why have you abandon me? Did God leave himself? Lastly i remember, my father is greater than i that Jesus said. How can he be greater than himself?

This is the folly of the Christians of nowadays! You don't think well at all. Even the Holy Spirit you profess is a ruse!
All Prophets from Adam till Muhammad submitted to Allah alone in worship! They all have their ways of worshiping Allah. They will worship Allah in ways Allah commanded! Was Moses clapping and singing like you do nowadays? Even Jesus never clapped and danced in the Church , that is if he ever attended one! It is a lie! The Jews had the place they face during worship! And the Mosque in Jerusalem (Palestine) was build by Abrahim! Is that not part of what Israel is trying to steal killing them now!

Jesus and all his disciples who worshiped Allah till they die will enter Paradise as Muslims! Same as Moses and all other Prophets. Our God is far from having son(s) like animals to inherit him or help him when he gets old! Only Animals beget one another!




I am sick and tired of your lies! How do you believe all these lies above?
This was the son of God? What kind of son? Where is the wife? Son of God like those in Genesis 6:1-4 that came to have sex or what?
Many Soldiers became Christians na lie! Show us where they believed Christ died for their sins in the Bible?
So at a distance, they saw what exactly?
They saw Jesus saying Eli Eli....It is finished or what?

AntiChristian:


You still brought your foolishness and lies here?
Anyways! Once again ask the mod who reported your lying colleague!

NairaLTQ:

Did you not read TenQ's post?
Did he not supply you with enough references from the Qur'an, the Hadiths and the Tafsirs?

So, what exactly was the lies of TenQ in the post: at least I read it before you guys went off to report to the Admin to delete his post?

HisSplendor:


The Jews face Jerusalem okay. They aren't Christians. Jesus disciples are the Christians. He brought a new way to serve God different from Moses. We can worship God anyway we like okay. God is pleased and that is manifested in the mighty Presence of God in our gatherings.

Abraham never built a Mosque, okay? That's a other lie told by your false prophet. You've been deceived. That's so hilarious!

Anyway, regarding the Father Son discourse, I don't have time to discuss things that are beyond your understanding. I only responded to the demands of this thread.

All you typed up there are outside the topic, ànd are actually beyond you.

A Christian is not a Christian because he can logically explain God. If your god can be logically explained, then he's not God. God is above humans, it's foolishness to use human situations, abilities and tendencies to explain God. A Christian is a Christian, not by logic but by the opening of the inner eyes. Until that happens to you, your spiritually foolish arguments continue. You can't be helped.

Until your inner eyes are open, continue in your arguments. As far as this thread is concerned, I've given you all you requested.

Go to bed with the verse below:

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: (Ephesians 4:18).

AntiChristian:


Discuss that on your thread!
This is mine. You'll discuss Trinity to Duality!

AntiChristian:
Three Gods exists in the trinity namely:
The father,
Son (Jesus),
and the Holy spirit!

All of them are one yet different! Among the three, the son became human and died for three days leaving only the father and spirit in the world!

Trinity hence became duality for three days when Jesus died!

Was there a time God was incomplete?

TenQ:
Quran 4:171
يَـٰٓأَهْلَ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ لَا تَغْلُوا۟ فِى دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا۟ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ إِلَّا ٱلْحَقَّ ۚ إِنَّمَا ٱلْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ٱبْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ ٱللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُۥٓ أَلْقَىٰهَآ إِلَىٰ مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌۭ مِّنْهُ ۖ فَـَٔامِنُوا۟ بِٱللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِۦ ۖ وَلَا تَقُولُوا۟ ثَلَـٰثَةٌ ۚ ٱنتَهُوا۟ خَيْرًۭا لَّكُمْ ۚ إِنَّمَا ٱللَّهُ إِلَـٰهٌۭ وَٰحِدٌۭ ۖ سُبْحَـٰنَهُۥٓ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُۥ وَلَدٌۭ ۘ لَّهُۥ مَا فِى ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَمَا فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ وَكِيلًۭا ١٧١



Christians are in no denial that the Body of Jesus died. Even at death, He promised that the Robber hung with him would be in paradise with him that same day.
Luk 23:43: "And Jesus said unto him, truly I say unto you, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Thus,
If according to the Qur'an:
JESUS IS
1. A Man/Messanger of Allah
2. The Word of Allah
3. The Spirit of Allah

Can you kindly explain the following
If it is true that Jesus died,
1. Can the Word of Allah die?
2. Can the Spirit of Allah die?
3. Can a Messanger of Allah die?


Thank you!

Okay,
A simpler question:
When a Muslim die, does his Soul (Nafs) die?

LegalWolf:


Bro, I’m not the one to stray into threads that I am not invited but can you help me ask that guy what is the meaning of “God” in Hebrews?

I want to assume it means “ELOAH”? If my assumption is correct, could you ask him why “ELOHIM” is used ? By his logic, that should mean they’re many gods (and which many not even be limited to three)?

AntiChristian:


Actually, the comma in the above sentence you quoted was put there by trinitarians!

Luke 23:43: "And Jesus said unto him, truly I say unto you Today, shalt thou be with me in paradise."

This is called the fallacy of accent

Luke 23:43 (NASB) says, "And he said to him, 'Truly I say to you, today you shall be with me in Paradise,'" indicating that Jesus will be with the malefactor in Paradise later that same day. But if the comma is moved to the other side of "today," an entirely different emphasis results: "Truly I say to you today, you shall (in the future) be with me in Paradise." This is, in fact the correct rendering.

AntiChristian:

1. Everything originates from the word of Allah.
The Qur'an, Injeel, Torah, etc are also words of Allah!
Whatever Allah wants to die will die.

2. The Spirit that emanates from Allah will return to Him.
Allah does not exist as a Spirit/Soul. And in Islam Spirit and Soul are the same!
In the verse you quoted in Arabic above مِّنْهُ means the soul emanates from Allah!
All souls come from Allah!

3. Yes, all humans (including messengers, etc) will die!
...Abu Bakr praised and glorified Allah and said, No doubt! Whoever worshipped Muhammad, then Muhammad is dead, but whoever worshipped Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die." Then he recited Allah's Statement.:-- "(O Muhammad) Verily you will die, and they also will die." (Qur'an 39.30)....Sahih Bukhar Sahih al-Bukhari 3667, 3668, Book 62, Hadith 19.



The body and Soul enters the life of the Barzakh (intervening stage between death and resurrection) after this worldly death! From then it will be in bliss or in punishment till the day of resurrection!

TenQ:
Quran 4:171
يَـٰٓأَهْلَ ٱلْكِتَـٰبِ لَا تَغْلُوا۟ فِى دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا۟ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ إِلَّا ٱلْحَقَّ ۚ إِنَّمَا ٱلْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ٱبْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ ٱللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُۥٓ أَلْقَىٰهَآ إِلَىٰ مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌۭ مِّنْهُ ۖ فَـَٔامِنُوا۟ بِٱللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِۦ ۖ وَلَا تَقُولُوا۟ ثَلَـٰثَةٌ ۚ ٱنتَهُوا۟ خَيْرًۭا لَّكُمْ ۚ إِنَّمَا ٱللَّهُ إِلَـٰهٌۭ وَٰحِدٌۭ ۖ سُبْحَـٰنَهُۥٓ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُۥ وَلَدٌۭ ۘ لَّهُۥ مَا فِى ٱلسَّمَـٰوَٰتِ وَمَا فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ ۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِٱللَّهِ وَكِيلًۭا ١٧١

Christians are in no denial that the Body of Jesus died. Even at death, He promised that the Robber hung with him would be in paradise with him that same day.
Luk 23:43:
"And Jesus said unto him, truly I say unto you, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Thus,
If according to the Qur'an:
JESUS IS
1. A Man/Messanger of Allah
2. The Word of Allah
3. The Spirit of Allah
Can you kindly explain the following
If it is true that Jesus died,
1. Can the Word of Allah die?
2. Can the Spirit of Allah die?
3. Can a Messanger of Allah die?

Okay,
A simpler question:
When a Muslim die, does his Soul (Nafs) die?

Thank you!

A simpler question:
When a Muslim die, does his Soul (Nafs) die?

TenQ:
I guess me too can start using Shia doctrines for You as the correct Islamic view and interpretation of doctrines. Is that okay? I think they have more damning doctrines and skeletons in their narratives than you Sunni Muslims. LOL!!

Background:
The New Testament was written in a variant of Greek known as Koine Greek (more like pidgin English: it was the language of day to day living by people from all over the world) as different from the standard classical greek.

In the earliest manuscripts, punctuations and capitalisations did not exist until later. I am sure the earliest Qurans did NOT also have punctuations: therefore, how did the modern Qurans get their punctuation marks?

1. The placement of the punctuation marks, were done according to the readings of the early church and their interpretation.
2. If the JW translation was true in its rendition, the word Today is actually unnecessary in the sentence as TRULY began the sentence.
example: Instead of
“Truly to you I say today with me you will be in Paradise.”
It should have been
"To you I say today, you will be with me in paradise"
Is the meaning lost?
3. Ancient translaors who spoke the koine greek translated it as
‘This day shall you be with Me in paradise’ (Luke 23:43),
(Athanasius, Statement of Faith, Chapter 1)
4. Jesus used the word Truly 85 times in the bible and only once did he combine it with today.
5. Even normal usage of words does not appeal to saying "Today, I say to you"!

The Jehovah's Witness believe that once a person dies, he becomes a state of non-existence and unconsciousness. The verse states otherwise because you cant be in an unconscious state in paradise. This is the reason they shifted the punctuation mark disregarding ancient rendations.
Christians believe that a dead person is not unconscious but is alive in a non-physical state either in hades or in the place where Abraham is.
Do you Muslims also believe that when a person dies, he is in a state of unconsciousness?

Since you say that the correct rendition is the JW translation: I will go with you

For the sake of Argument, let us assume that Luke is rendered according to your preference as
Luk 23:42-43:
"42. And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom.
43. And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you today, you shall be with me in paradise."

It DOESN'T Change ANYTHING about the power of Christ to guarantee Paradise for anyone.

What did the Thief ask for (after all his railings against Jesus with the other Thief)?
He said: Remember me when you get to your kingdom.
But of course, the kingdom of Christ is NOT of this World
John 18:36:
"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

NEVERTHELESS, the response of Christ is a very strong word of assurance to a thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with Jesus.

Truely I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise!

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION DIRECTLY

I said:



The major Question O asked was
If it is true that Jesus died,
1. Can the Word of Allah die?
2. Can the Spirit of Allah die?
3. Can a Messanger of Allah die?

From your long and winding explanations,

1. Are you saying that
"The Word of Allah can die'?
2. Are you saying that
"The Spirit of Allah can die'"?
3. If truly these above can die, are you saying that other attributes of Allah like his Power, his Wisdom, his Knowledge can die'?


Of course I understand that as Muslims you don't know much about the Ruh therefore it would be impossible for you to make any equivocal statement about them. Anything you say about the Ruh is a conjecture. The Ruh (spirit) is different from the Nafs(soul) my dear. Does the Qur'an not speak about the three states of the Nafs (Nafs-ul-Ammarah, Nafs-ul-Lawwamah and Nafs-ul-Mutmainnah)
? Allah/Mohammed did not explain to you Muslims what the Ruh is!


I have no problems with your response to my second question.


At least it seem like you don't believe that when a person dies, he ceases to exist.

So, when Jesus died, Did his Soul (Nafs) die?

Checkmate:
If Jesus's soul did not die, how did you arrive at Duality instead of Trinity?