mostob:
Bro..you fall my hand sha. But it's okay

U no see how Mbappe dey dive for goal post making save after save. He play corner, he go head am inside like one of our players dey do. Didn't you watch that world cup?

Pele carry which team? Dem no born any of us that time, but you can certainly check the records. . The Brazilian team was star-studded in all three world cups. Pele was certainly impressive in the knockout stages of the 1958 world cup, especially because he was a teenager.(Me I think he was using football age then. ). But he wasn't the lone star. That squad had the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Zagallio e.t.c. The star-studdedness of that team became obvious in 1962, cos they cruised through without him(He was injured during the group stages). In the third championship, he was far from the best player on that team. There was Jairzinho. It's the reason I understand why many rate Maradona above him even though he won just one. He was the runaway best player on his team. Incredible. I wouldn't undermine Pele's achievements but the three world cup trophy argument is kind of overrated. Besides the world cup was the stand-alone cross-continental competition then. It covered the most relevant continents as far as the talent pool was concerned. The European championship was kind of one-sided. I would like to think the cross-continental transfer of players wasn't a thing then. The best South American players were playing in South America. So it was much easier winning a world cup then. The champions league and some very successful leagues have changed that.

andrewbaba44:


Why going to the 2014 World Cup they didn’t win ?

The giroud was even a joke

But griezman was French best player at the 2018 World Cup and not mbappe .why did you ignore that and speak of mbappe only ?

Griezman didn’t came 3rd at the ballon d or behind modric and Ronaldo for just being an excort ,if na even goals self mbappe no score pass am for 2018

At least pele dey carry team ,do you wanna say mbappe carried France to the 2018 World Cup ?

Fall hand how? Football we all know is a team sport but some individuals were so essential to their teams winning that it is almost universally agreed that if those players weren't their it's most likely their team won't have won.

Now will all fairness look at Mbappe's performance at the last world cup and in this one are you saying France would have gone all the way without him considering how the French national team had performed in recent world cups before he came on the scene?

mostob:
Bro..you fall my hand sha. But it's okay

Abi o the way Maradona pass ball give himself score all the goals or the way Pele used to keep clean sheets for Brazil back then abi

AndSunGorilla:

U no see how Mbappe dey dive for goal post making save after save. He play corner, he go head am inside like one of our players dey do. Didn't you watch that world cup?

If Griezmann was so good why did they let him go at a loss?

I've never said Griezmann is not a good player but hyping his contributions ahead of Mbappe is an agenda that will not fly.

AndSunGorilla:

Exactly if Griezmann was that bad, why did Barcelona spend so much money to buy him from Athletico, for a long time he was the poster boy of Athletico Madrid's success. Now that he returned, Simeone and Athletico were intentionally giving him less minutes to reduce the money they would pay to Barcelona. I support you sir. Griezmann has always been class whether with the french team or anywhere, his only disappointing period was in Barcelona.

AndSunGorilla:

U no see how Mbappe dey dive for goal post making save after save. He play corner, he go head am inside like one of our players dey do. Didn't you watch that world cup?

Haa..! I watch am o. Remember how he gave himself the final pass and still ran ahead to score.

Make I do the math. You give Argentina 2 goals. Komekn give Argentina 1 goal. That’s 3 goals. For France it’s 4 goals total.

France to win by 1 goal. I don predict haha

Icon79:
LOL. Do you wanna put your money?

It’s Argentina 2 France 1 final score.


O pari

chrisooblog:
Fall hand how? Football we all know is a team sport but some individuals were so essential to their teams winning that it is almost universally agreed that if those players weren't their it's most likely their team won't have won.

Now will all fairness look at Mbappe's performance at the last world cup and in this one are you saying France would have gone all the way without him considering how the French national team had performed in recent world cups before he came on the scene?

You fall my hand because I was not expecting something like this from you.
How can you forget the defensive solidity of that team? Pogba was holding that Midfield for France, What of the insane workrate of Kante? Griezman was conducting the Midfield, Playmaking and striking at the same time and you're here saying Mbappe won the World cup for France. chai... I'm out.

chrisooblog:
If Griezmann was so good why did they let him go at a loss?

I've never said Griezmann is not a good player but hyping his contributions ahead of Mbappe is an agenda that will not fly.

You're the one hyping here. We all agreed Mbappe has contributed a lot to the French team but you want to force your 'Mbappe singlehandedly won the world cup for france' agenda down our throat.

From your first paragraph, I can deduct you have something ulterior against Griezman. If not, what has his club form had to do with his performance in the national team?

I'm sure if Pogba and Kante were in this year's world cup you would have used them to downplay Mbappe's performances.

Players contribute to a team's success but some individual player's contributions are more impactful than others that has been the crux of my argument.

mostob:
You fall my hand because I was not expecting something like this from you.
How can you forget the defensive solidity of that team? Pogba was holding that Midfield for France, What of the insane workrate of Kante? Griezman was conducting the Midfield, Playmaking and striking at the same time and you're here saying Mbappe won the World cup for France. chai... I'm out.

I have nothing against Griezmann I was just countering the other poster's argument using Barcelona to hype him up.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said Mbappe single handedly won the world cup that obviously sounds ridiculous. Even greats like Pele and Maradona can't be said to have won world cups single handedly for their respective teams, however that said it their impacts were so significant you could argue that it would have been almost impossible for their countries to have won without their presence. This is the point I've been trying to make for Kylian.

mostob:
You're the one hyping here. We all agreed Mbappe has contributed a lot to the French team but you want to force your 'Mbappe singlehandedly won the world cup for france' agenda down our throat.

From your first paragraph, I can deduct you have something ulterior against Griezman. If not, what has his club form had to do with his performance in the national team?

chrisooblog:
I'm sure if Pogba and Kante were in this year's world cup you would have used them to downplay Mbappe's performances.

Players contribute to a team's success but some individual player's contributions are more impactful than others that has been the crux of my argument.

You're the one downplaying the effort of other players in that team. Maybe you should go through your posts again.

chrisooblog:
If Griezmann was so good why did they let him go at a loss?

I've never said Griezmann is not a good player but hyping his contributions ahead of Mbappe is an agenda that will not fly.

No doubt Mbappe is the star of the team but respect Griezmann too as you alluded to that he's a good player. He had a bad period in Barcelona, the marriage never worked but forget Griezmann na special player. Also because Forlan failed at Man Utd doesn't diminish from his quality. Sometimes some systems don't just work out for certain players, obviously the Barca move was a wrong one but unlike Coutinho he has rediscovered himself at Athletico, that I daresay is a mark of a very good player. He picked himself from the disappointment and is showing us what has again.

Mujtahida:

What's the origin you heard?

When the rules were still racist, the blacks involved playing the game(Brazil) were cruelly fouled and since it's a black, ref no go blow. High boots, deliberate kicks, name any despicable foul. Once a white man did it against the black, no foul. It was play on. Even medics won't attend to the injured unless the racist ref called for.

That's how they invented Dribbling inspired by dancing that the whites couldn't dance. It became a norm, spreading across Latin America until the rules and the game got better. But it was now in the dna because everyone wanted to dance. So football games on the streets increased as a result-A football nation!!

elyte89:



Bro if benzema is fit to play let him start

Dt name alone will send shivers to d spine of Sargentine defenders

Besides,a benzema on d pitch in his normal day can do and undo

KORRECT 100%

Fifa 23 sef. Nigeria is not among teams to select when playing the FIFA World cup. But i see some odd teams there that didn't qualify

daveP:
Hearing the origin of Dribbling has changed my mind about it. Blacks must do to make sure it never ever gets extinct in the world of football. Mtchewww.

you don’t have to believe everything you see on the internet

daveP:
Fifa 23 sef. Nigeria is not among teams to select when playing the FIFA World cup. But i see some odd teams there that didn't qualify

Nigeria no ever Dey fifa na

daveP:


When the rules were still racist, the blacks involved playing the game(Brazil) were cruelly fouled and since it's a black, ref no go blow. High boots, deliberate kicks, name any despicable foul. Once a white man did it against the black, no foul. It was play on. Even medics won't attend to the injured unless the racist ref called for.

That's how they invented Dribbling inspired by dancing that the whites couldn't dance. It became a norm, spreading across Latin America until the rules and the game got better. But it was now in the dna because everyone wanted to dance. So football games on the streets increased as a result-A football nation!!

Any link so I can read. This sounds fantastic

benji93:
Pele carry which team? Dem no born any of us that time, but you can certainly check the records. . The Brazilian team was star-studded in all three world cups. Pele was certainly impressive in the knockout stages of the 1958 world cup, especially because he was a teenager.(Me I think he was using football age then. ). But he wasn't the lone star. That squad had the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Zagallio e.t.c. The star-studdedness of that team became obvious in 1962, cos they cruised through without him(He was injured during the group stages). In the third championship, he was far from the best player on that team. There was Jairzinho. It's the reason I understand why many rate Maradona above him even though he won just one. He was the runaway best player on his team. Incredible. I wouldn't undermine Pele's achievements but the three world cup trophy argument is kind of overrated. Besides the world cup was the stand-alone cross-continental competition then. It covered the most relevant continents as far as the talent pool was concerned. The European championship was kind of one-sided. I would like to think the cross-continental transfer of players wasn't a thing then. The best South American players were playing in South America. So it was much easier winning a world cup then. The champions league and some very successful leagues have changed that.

Ohhhh I read the bolded with joy. D10S is incomparable. There was just something vigorous about Maradona in the way he carried Argentina to win the WC in 1986.

Haha. Take it from me, Leo Messi is winning this World Cup. It’s been decreed.


O pari

Joebie:
Make I do the math. You give Argentina 2 goals. Komekn give Argentina 1 goal. That’s 3 goals. For France it’s 4 goals total.

France to win by 1 goal. I don predict haha

AndSunGorilla:

Exactly and I remember he took a modest Monaco to the UCL knocking out some favorites along the way before losing to a specially organized Porto coached by the Special One at his prime (lol). The thing with him is that he seems cautious and doesn't go gung-ho which anyone can expect with the talents France has.

he also got a relegated Juventus back to Serie A after just a season. They don’t like him because his team don’t play 5 billion passes

chrisooblog:
Fall hand how? Football we all know is a team sport but some individuals were so essential to their teams winning that it is almost universally agreed that if those players weren't their it's most likely their team won't have won.

Now will all fairness look at Mbappe's performance at the last world cup and in this one are you saying France would have gone all the way without him considering how the French national team had performed in recent world cups before he came on the scene?

if he was that important he’d have finished in the top 3 best player, IMO Pogba was more influential that Mbappe

Adrien Rabiot was the missing piece in France midfield against Morroco.
He is the best France midfielder in this tournament. He will be fit against Argentina.

The Argentines lack a proper number 9.
Alvarez does not strike me as someone that will trouble the French backline.

With Rabiot back in that midfield triangle, I do not see the Argentines winning this one!
Dembele, Giroud and Mbappe will be too hot to handle for the Argentines.

France 2 Argentina 1

Nomyth:

what a wonderful design. All that is left for him is a thorough blessing by president buhari to complete it. People may want to talk about the times he congratulated super eagles in afcon, super falcons in wafcon, Anthony Joshua, morroco and they lost but I believe he should not be distracted by all those negative happenings. Andrewbaba make sure messi meets the president before Sunday. It is important.

benji93:
Pele carry which team? Dem no born any of us that time, but you can certainly check the records. . The Brazilian team was star-studded in all three world cups. Pele was certainly impressive in the knockout stages of the 1958 world cup, especially because he was a teenager.(Me I think he was using football age then. ). But he wasn't the lone star. That squad had the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Zagallio e.t.c. The star-studdedness of that team became obvious in 1962, cos they cruised through without him(He was injured during the group stages). In the third championship, he was far from the best player on that team. There was Jairzinho. It's the reason I understand why many rate Maradona above him even though he won just one. He was the runaway best player on his team. Incredible. I wouldn't undermine Pele's achievements but the three world cup trophy argument is kind of overrated. Besides the world cup was the stand-alone cross-continental competition then. It covered the most relevant continents as far as the talent pool was concerned. The European championship was kind of one-sided. I would like to think the cross-continental transfer of players wasn't a thing then. The best South American players were playing in South America. So it was much easier winning a world cup then. The champions league and some very successful leagues have changed that.

Yes you are right,dem no born us during Pele era but those who watched him like my Dad said Pele remain the best in history of football.Maradona should have been the best but he was a fraud with drugs.One thing is certain if Messi wins WC then he stand a chance to be compared with Pele and Maradona in history of football.

Kog45:
Yes you are right,dem no born us during Pele era but those who watched him like my Dad said Pele remain the best in history of football.Maradona should have been the best but he was a fraud with drugs.One thing is certain if Messi wins WC then he stand a chance to be compared with Pele and Maradona in history of football.

If Messi wins he don surpass all of them

Nothing to compare anymore

Marjoribanks:
Adrien Rabiot was the missing piece in France midfield against Morroco.
He is the best France midfielder in this tournament. He will be fit against Argentina.

The Argentines lack a proper number 9.
Alvarez does not strike me as someone that will trouble the French backline.

With Rabiot back in that midfield triangle, I do not see the Argentines winning this one!
Dembele, Giroud and Mbappe will be too hot to handle for the Argentines.

France 2 Argentina 1

A Midfield that held off the trio of Modric, Brozovic and Kovacic will be overrun because of Rabiot?
Not all teams play with a traditional 9.
Abeg recheck from Oracle.

benji93:
Pele carry which team? Dem no born any of us that time, but you can certainly check the records. . The Brazilian team was star-studded in all three world cups. Pele was certainly impressive in the knockout stages of the 1958 world cup, especially because he was a teenager.(Me I think he was using football age then. ). But he wasn't the lone star. That squad had the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Zagallio e.t.c. The star-studdedness of that team became obvious in 1962, cos they cruised through without him(He was injured during the group stages). In the third championship, he was far from the best player on that team. There was Jairzinho. It's the reason I understand why many rate Maradona above him even though he won just one. He was the runaway best player on his team. Incredible. I wouldn't undermine Pele's achievements but the three world cup trophy argument is kind of overrated. Besides the world cup was the stand-alone cross-continental competition then. It covered the most relevant continents as far as the talent pool was concerned. The European championship was kind of one-sided. I would like to think the cross-continental transfer of players wasn't a thing then. The best South American players were playing in South America. So it was much easier winning a world cup then. The champions league and some very successful leagues have changed that.

no disrespect to Pele but maradona is my best of all time

Diego was a hell of a baller. Too damn skillful and intelligent on the ball amongst his peers/generation

Brazil were not even favorites for the WC Title in 1958 until the entrance of Pele. Sweden, The Soviets and France were the Favorites. Hungary were there but not the force they were in 1954.

Pele is the one who gave them that extra edge when he returned from injury in the last group game and kept his place in the KO stages from the Quarter finals vs Wales. Brazil rode on the back of his goals to their first World Cup title. He was just 17.

OVERRATED?? Go check your records again!


Do you know it was Pele's insane Jogo Bonito talents that made the coach return to Brazil's Original style of play, moving away from the already rising "European style" that was beginning to dominate tactical discussions back then in the late 50s especially after Brazil's failure in 1950?

Without Pele, there would be no first world cup for Brazil. The same records you speak of say that much. 6 goals in 3 WC KO games from Quarterfinals to The final from a 17 year old boy is GOAT level.


So yes, Pele carried the Brazillian national team and history knows this.

I didn't just check the records, I studied that era for as long as I can remember since I was a boy. Old newspaper reports accessed online, first hand witness reports, clips, videos thanks to my dad who regularly visited Brazil back in my childhood days and before that, in his bachelor days (he kept them)... and ofcos today, we have hundreds of YouTube Clips of Pele's magic in Brazil and Santos colors.


Pele also made Santos the Best and most dominant clubside in world football back then. They were so good that they were invited by the top European leagues back then to come play against their clubsides on various European tours. Santos was to contracted to ensure Pele made all the trips which is reason why he hardly played in the Copa Libertadores back then.



You reference 1962 to make your point about Pele not carrying Brazil but even that tournament saw Pele score in their first game. A beautiful goal that saw him beat 4 players. Pele entered that tournament as the undisputed Best player on the planet.

He got injured in the second game vs Czech Slovakia and Brazil felt the blow.... that game ended goalless... but also being reigning World Champs and with Pele still present with them from the sidelines, they still rallied round and dug deep to go ahead and win the whole thing. Guys like Garrincha, arguably the best right winger/best dribbling wing wizard of his time, Vava and Amarildo stepped up.

Now here's the question....

Why didn't this stars-studded side win it without him (as he was mostly injured) then in 1966?

Pele played the first game and scored in Brazil's win in the first game. A sublime freekick goal vs Bulgaria. Garrincha also scored in that game.

But the Bulgarians kicked up Pele so much that he got injured and had to miss the second game vs Hungary. Garrincha and Tostao couldn't do anything here as they fell 3-1.

They knew they needed Pele even though he was still injured and would only be close to half fit if they forced him to play the last game. Eventually they did and Portugal led by Eusebio also roughed up Pele all game and won 3-1.

Pele's time in the NT was nearing an end and he was even said to have stepped away before 1970 but he was called back into the NT in 1968/1969 for the Qualifiers and he came in scoring 6 goals in 6 games in the Qualifiers

1970 World Cup.... You mention Jairzinho who bagged 7 goals. Do you know who assisted most of his goals? Answer is Pele. With 3 assists.

Jairzinho bagged 7 goals and 1 assist in that tournament.

Tostao bagged 2 goals and 4 assists

But Pele... bagged 4 goals and 6 assists in his final world cup showing including 1 goal and 2 assists in the final vs Italy in that famous 4-1 win. And one of those 2 assists came for Jairzinho.

Pele was the creative hub of the Brazillian side all through his career. Some people mistake him for a striker but he was not a striker. He was the man behind the striker. He was a Trequartista, withdrawn forward, or some would even say a number 10.

He was so good that anytime he played alongside Garrincha (another great), Brazil never lost a game except only once.


You are talking up Jairzinho as if he was the main man of the Brazil 1970 side. Abeg, why didn't he lead Brazil to WC Glory in 1974 without Pele? He still had Rivellino and some others from 1970 naa. Wetin happen?



So no... you are wrong. Pele indeed carried Brazil. The obvious stand out player in that Brazillian team at every World Cup and even France Football admits he was the rightful winner of 7 ballon dors in that period if we were to award the prize based on the current unrestricted criteria as back then the prize was restricted only to European players.


Also, you are wrong about Stars-studded Brazil in 1958. Brazil in 1958 wasn't stars-studded. You say this because they won the world cup.
The story behind that team and the buildup to that tournament is lost on you. You clearly don't know.

Even in the group stages, Brazil were still not favourites until Pele showed his face. Until Pele returned from the injury that he nursed before the WC began. Brazil took an injured Pele to the WC and immediately installed him as soon as he was fit enough - not even 100% to play and he came and brought out the best in Garrincha, Vava, Zagallo, etc in a rejigged 4-2-4 formation.

That team also had Didi who after the 1958 WC became recognised as one of the best midfielders on the planet but before the tournament kicked off, he wasn't rated in that class at all.

It is the same vibe with Sofyan Amrabat of Morocco today. Now he is rated worldwide only because of what he has shown at Qatar 2022.





And what's wrong if the best South American players were playing in South America?
Even Pele was sought after by the finest European clubsides but Brazil declared him a national treasure and refused to entertain any transfer offer for Pele.
Back then, the current money boom in the Euro leagues also wasn't too obvious.
It wasn't at same level so ofcos the best South American lads stayed home and formed some of the best clubsides to grace the planet in then very high quality competitive Brazillian league...
Sides like Pele's Santos in the late 50s and 60s, Zico's Flamengo in the 80s, Garrincha's Botafogo etc.

Some Brazillians did make the transfer to European football in that era.
But back then, Brazil hardly picked Brazillians who plied their football trades outside Brazil.

Lads like Jose Altafini who made the 1958 team but eventually got dropped to bring in Pele/Vava in during the 1958 tournament altering Brazil's playing approach was Brazillian-Italian who played in the Italian Serie A back then.





Lastly, about relevant continents even if Africa had been allowed back then in 1958, there won't be much difference in WC outcomes. We all saw, from the records, Zaire in 1974. The best in African football as at that period getting roasted before the eyes of the world. There were in-camp issues ofcos and issues that contributed to destabilising them from back home no thanks to their dictator-leader back then but the bottomline is Africa's best was not ready to compete then. The quality was still low. Very low. They weren't good enough in 1974 so our level in the 50s were obviously not up to par. Besides, we just had our first official Afcon tournament in 1957... that was a year before the 1958 WC. There was simply no chance for Africa yet back then as we were still building our level.

It was Tunisia in 1978 who began to show that Africa was on its way to growth in the sport. Tunisia got Africa's first World cup match win vs Mexico that year. The rest is history.


So in conclusion, Pele's greatness and quality as a footballer is indeed talked down and somewhat watered down by some of you because you haven't dug enough into history to know all there is.

None of us were born then but like I already stated... the records, clips, match reports and all else are still there on the Internet. A little more extra research will help you understand just how undisputed Pele was to Brazil's WC winning sides.

1958... Pele.

1962... Pele led the show, got injured and It was mostly Garrincha.

1966... Pele injured again and smacked up and Brazil fell.

1970... Pele returns and was again the Main Man.

1974... No Pele... Jairzinho and Rivellino just fell away.


You welcome.

benji93:
Pele carry which team? Dem no born any of us that time, but you can certainly check the records. . The Brazilian team was star-studded in all three world cups. Pele was certainly impressive in the knockout stages of the 1958 world cup, especially because he was a teenager.(Me I think he was using football age then. ). But he wasn't the lone star. That squad had the likes of Garrincha, Didi, Zagallio e.t.c. The star-studdedness of that team became obvious in 1962, cos they cruised through without him(He was injured during the group stages). In the third championship, he was far from the best player on that team. There was Jairzinho. It's the reason I understand why many rate Maradona above him even though he won just one. He was the runaway best player on his team. Incredible. I wouldn't undermine Pele's achievements but the three world cup trophy argument is kind of overrated. Besides the world cup was the stand-alone cross-continental competition then. It covered the most relevant continents as far as the talent pool was concerned. The European championship was kind of one-sided. I would like to think the cross-continental transfer of players wasn't a thing then. The best South American players were playing in South America. So it was much easier winning a world cup then. The champions league and some very successful leagues have changed that.

What Pele could do with a football with both feet, not even Maradona came close. It is not an exaggeration... it is facts.

Pele was and remains the most complete footballer ever to grace the beautiful game. The perfect mix of Athleticism, Unlimited Technique, Limitlessly Supreme Ball intelligence, Power, Speed, Spatial awareness and more.

His ambipedality on the ball in technique, control and even his goals is the most complete I have ever studied in football history.

He was as powerfully assertive, technically majestic and in total ball control across all in-game phases with his right foot as he was with his left foot.


Maradona wasn't like that. He was majorly left footed.

Messi is also majorly left footed.

CR7 doesn't boast the high-end technical might of Maradona and Messi not to mention Pele himself.

Everything that everyone of these top ballers from Maradona to Messi to Zidane to Ronaldo de lima to Ronaldinho to CR7 to Neymar did with a ball, Pele did it first. Do you know how insane that is?

He didn't have any highlights reel to reference. He invented almost all on the spot. These guys came later and replicated it and didn't even replicate all of Pele's Magic.

If there is anything I would have wanted, it is to have lived during the era of Pele to witness first hand all and more of the magic he dished out then. because the truth is even the clips, Videos and different report accounts dont show all of it.



Watch these clips below and understand....

1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYokNMEgRvw

2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VbZmkfelfw (Watch this directly in the YT app).


Respect to the GOAT of GOATs abeg. That you didn't watch him then doesn't erase historical facts.

Mujtahida:

Any link so I can read. This sounds fantastic

A podcast with some excerpts from an old book i didn't catch the title.