Thebadpolitican:



Another rubbish


Egie meaning group of royals or group of Duke

Enogie : dukes

If you say ogie means king


How would you describe a benin prince to someone in benin language pointing to the fact is of a royal blood

Ogie means king to a non benin, ogie is a general world the benin use to describe royalty be it the person is a prince, a royal servant, a royal slave

Ogie does not just mean king you dummy its a non benin that will call and refer to Ogie as just king you can a Duke(enogie) a king(ogie)


The title of the king of benin has always been omo no' ba ( the child's that shines for the edo people) oba is a short form of the word
To see others stole the words the only called it the short form the Europeans coined it into


Ugbe go and sleep am still waiting for the assignment I gave you earlier today


Is utese close to any yoruba territory if yes you tracing utese to oromiysn history is void

Enogie-means the king, confining the Ogieship to a person
Enigie-Group of kings
Ogie-king but not confining it to any body
Egie-royalty-i have given an explanation to this before
you call a royal slave Ogie even royal servant Ogie, na wa o, e be like you be nupe descendants

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

This was the simple question I asked you, you seem to be dancing around, put a straight answer and see if your position will still stand

RedboneSmith:


Yea, I remember arguing with him once about the origin and etymology of 'Idu'. He disagreed very strongly with my position, which I understand. All things put together he is more pragmatic and objective than most other Benin people on here.

Another pragmatic Benin nairalander, who no longer uses this platform was bokohalal.

I saw the Idu thread. Wasn't it the one talking about Idumu/Idumwun (A community of people argument)?

I remember him too.
Those were old timers when culture section used to pop.

samuk:


He is right, UGBE634 already presented a screen shot of Benin dictionary said to have been written in 1930s, it's there, scroll backwards to see it.

The BA in the dictionary is different from the OBA.

I may not fully understand Edo but I still know some things.

scholes0:


I saw the Idu thread. Wasn't it the one talking about Idumu/Idumwun (A community of people argument)?

Yes.

I remember him too.
Those were old timers when culture section used to pop.

The conversation back then was a lot more intellectually stimulating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYRG62GK1RQ&pp=ygUYb3NheW9tb3JlIGpvc2VwaCBlZmV3ZWRv

"Edolites" make una serenade una ears ooo

scholes0:


Lmao... I am looking forward the next story that you will spin to explain away the Oduduwa mask used in the Oduduwa ritual that was part of the commemorative art carted away from Benin after the expedition.

Let me break it down for you.

There was once a western region in Nigeria which comprises the following gladiators.

1. Oba of Benin with centuries old documented history by the Europeans

2. The Alaafin of Oyo which the British met on ground as king of yoruba people in 1824.

3. The Ooni which the yoruba people regarded as their spiritual leader.

Unification of the region:

The people of this former western region were continously at war with each other until the British brought law and order in order to colonised the country.

A story was concocted to unite these people under one umbrella. Ife was chosen to be the epicentre of a migration myth. The Oba of Benin contributed his centuries old history which Ife lacked and in return, he inherit or became the heir to Oduduwa fictitious dynasty. The Alaafin became second heir to the dynasty while Ooni whose domain was already chosen as the migration Centre got the least position of chief priest or spiritual leader.

This plot unravel when Awolowo introduced tribalism into this arrangements by helping to elevate the Ooni above his assigned position. The Oba of Benin (Akenzua) worked out of the arrangements in protest and demanded for his own mid West Region, which he got in 1963. The Alaafin and the Ooni were left in the western region to fight it out amongst themselves.

The oba if Benin left with his entitled, heir to Oduduwa dynasty intact, he now celebrates the annual Oduduwa festival to keep it alive, the Alaafin seems to have gotten the shot end of the stick.

samuk:




The oba if Benin left with his entitled, heir to Oduduwa dynasty intact, the Alaafin seems to have gotten the shot end of the stick.

UGBE634:
As a race, he is Edo and you are not more Edo than him, his perspective is very welcome

Binis do not own the Word Ogie, it is a cognate word that was gifted to all Edoid tribes by their ancestor, the proto-Edo. I mean these are related tribes, most words they share with us as Edoids groups are cognate

I have asked you there were Ogies in Benin before the advent of the Oba,
who were they subservient to?!!! You will dodge my question, you will quickly come and quote him to misinform him. Ogie is king and not duke




It does not mean that, stop lying, there is no significant stress on the "ba" to suggest so. It is pronounced the same way the yorubas pronounce theirs

Oga go and sit down I will burst your bubbles untill you reveal your agenda


Oga even ogie is a general world for anything royalty it can be used as king for a non benin,
It can be used to refer to as a Duke by the benin depending on the contest

The title is called omo no' oba not oba, it's called omo no oba of benin not oba of benin oba has no meaning without the other prefix attached

Every Duke or royalty can be called ogie regardless of its the Oba of benin or an enogie, Ogie is a generic word for king or royalty

The oba of benin can be refred to as ogie meaning king or a royalty, just like every governor or a president can be referd to as government but governor(enogie) and presidentomo no' oba) are their respective titles

Thebadpolitican:



Oga go and sit down I will burst your bubbles untill you reveal your agenda


Oga even ogie is a general world for anything royalty it can be used as king for a non benin,
It can be used to refer to as a Duke by the benin depending on the contest

The title is called omo no' oba not oba, it's called omo no oba of benin not oba of benin oba has no meaning without the other prefix attached

Every Duke or royalty can be called ogie regardless of its the Oba of benin or an enogie, Ogie is a generic word for king or royalty

The oba of benin can be refred to as ogie meaning king or a royalty, just like every governor or a president can be referd to as government but governor(enogie) and presidentomo no' oba) are their respective titles

you seem to be a Non-entity without a life, this is where I end my argument with you, you have been dodging my question and feeling like a champion, you are a waste of space obviously

samuk:


Let me break it down for you.

There was once a western region in Nigeria which comprises the following gladiators.

1. Oba of Benin with centuries old documented history by the Europeans

2. The Alaafin of Oyo which the British met on ground as king of yoruba people in 1824.

3. The Ooni which the yoruba people regarded as their spiritual leader.

Unification of the region:

The people of this former western region were continously at way with each other until the British brought law and order in order to colonised the country.

A story was concocted to unite these people under one umbrella. Ife was chosen to be the epicentre of a migration myth. The Oba of Benin contributed his centuries old history which Ife lacked and in return, he inherit or became the heir to Oduduwa fictitious dynasty. The Alaafin became second heir to the dynasty while Ooni whose domain was already chosen as the migration Centre got the least position of chief priest or spiritual leader.

This plot unravel when Awolowo introduced tribalism into this arrangements by helping to elevate the Ooni above his assigned position. The Oba of Benin (Akenzua) worked out of the arrangements in protest and demanded for his own mid West Region, which he got in 1963. The Alaafin and the Ooni were left in the western region to fight it out amongst themselves.

The oba if Benin left with his entitled, heir to Oduduwa dynasty intact, the Alaafin seems to have gotten the shot end of the stick.

Wrong. The people of Yorubaland were not CONTINIOUSLY at war. The decline of Oyo in the 19th century led to a huge power vacuum that various Yoruba kingdoms were jostling to replace, amongst them; ibadan, Ijaye, Abeokuta, Owu and the rest which were the aspiring new powers, and that was the period of incessant warfare. Before then, there wasn't any more frequency of warfare amongst the people than in anywhere else or among any other group of people in the general southeastern west African region they were situated in.

Ife was never chosen as the epicentre of any migration myth. There were actually dynastic migrations of rulers and in some cases commoners from Ife of old. You think it is easy to cook a non existent chapter into the history of Millions including their Orikis just like that?

Let me tell you, before there was anything called 'Western region', Otu Ife had always occupied a sacred place in Yoruba historiography.

The people of the Benue valley share something similar based in the old confederation of Kororofa based in Wukari, although not 100% the same with the seeming Ife-Yorubaland equivalent. Some northern Igbos of the Anambra valley had it with Nri, and so many Edoid groups have it with Igodomigodo or Benin. It is't exactly a new thing in West Africa or even the world. Maybe those were cooked up too.

UGBE634:
you call a royal slave Ogie even royal servant Ogie, na wa o, e be like you be nupe descendants

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

This was the simple question I asked you, you seem to be dancing around, put a straight answer and see if your position will still stand

Who do you refer as they to be clear you
Mean the utese


Can't you call a governor or a common counselour government if yes then a royal slave can be called ogie in that context too

Ogie is a generic world like government
Egie likewise is a generic word too

UGBE634:
you seem to be a Non-entity without a life, this is where I end my argument with you, you have been dodging my question and feeling like a champion, you are a waste of space obviously

You're a disgrace to the yorubas

I will make sure I burst all your lies

I will never avoid your question unless I mistakenly skipped it

Throw it agsin

Thebadpolitican:


You're a disgrace to the yorubas

I will make sure I burst all your lies

I will never avoid your question unless I mistakenly skipped it

Throw it agsin

Eweeeee

Thebadpolitican:



Who do you refer as they to be clear you
Mean the utese


Can't you call a governor or a common counselour government if yes then a royal slave can be called ogie in that context too

Ogie is a generic world like government
Egie likewise is a generic word too

you seem to be waste of space I mean it you are empty, I doubt you are more than 25, I mean the
Enogie of Egor
Enogie of Urhonigbe
And others who were already in existence before the Emergence of Oba in Benin, who were they subservient to, I guess the person you are trying to misinform already knows the right position to take

scholes0:


Wrong. The people of Yorubaland were not CONTINIOUSLY at war. The decline of Oyo in the 19th century led to a huge power vacuum that various Yoruba kingdoms were jostling to replace, amongst them; ibadan, Ijaye, Abeokuta, Owu and the rest which were the aspiring new powers, and that was the period of incessant warfare. Before then, there wasn't any more frequency of warfare in the region than anywhere else or any other group of people in the general southeastern west African region they were situated in.

Ife was never chosen as the epicentre of any migration myth. There were actually dynastic migrations of rulers and in some cases commoners from Ife of old. You think it is easy to cook a non existent chapter into the history of Millions including their Orikis just like that?

Let me tell you, before there was anything called 'Western region', Otu Ife had always occupied a sacred place in Yoruba historiography.

The people of the Benue valley share something similar to the old confederation of Kororofa based in Wukari, although not 100% the same. The northern Igbos have it with Nri, and so many Edoid groups have it with Igodomigodo or Benin. It is't exactly a new thing in West Africa or even the world. Maybe those were cooked up too.

Are you saying every Tom, Dick and Harry claiming migration from Ife today, did so in the past? Whilst Ife keep the migration stories going, the oba of Benin is keeping the Oduduwa story going by his annual Ugie Oduduwa. I am not sure what the role of the Alaafin is now in the arrangement. I know he gives out some specific chieftaincy titles in yoruba land.

With the way yoruba people and oba are embracing foreign religions such as Christianity and Islam, the role of the Ooni is daily diminishing as well.

At the end, it seems only the Oba of Benin end of the stick will endure well into the future. The Sultan have far more yoruba people under his spiritual leadership than the Ooni. Left for you guys, you would have probably sold Oduduwa and Oranmiyan to the Hausa/Fulani in a few centuries.

Ahhh see blood everywhere

The blood from the west that I have drank on this thread wooow e full my belle oo it's gon last for a long time

Time for some Ohenhen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDBhbpktfxI&pp=ygUHb2hlbmhlbg%3D%3D

Efewestern:


Ooni, Awujale, Alake, Alafin, Olubadan, Oluwo, Olu, etc are not the yoruboid word for king, they are title of each sovereign rulers. I can't give a breakdown of these titles but I'm very sure they mean different thing.

The closest the Yorubas have to Oba is "Baale," which by the way is a low ranking title for a tiny community heads.

It is an established fact that Ogie is an Edoid word for King. Regardless of what some are trying to spin, Ogie means king and not Duke. Now, in Yoruboid, aside Oba, there is no other Yoruba word for King. Olu isn't king. Olu means Lord. Ooni , Alaffin are titles. Baale isn't also close. This leaves us with only OBA, unless you want to convince me that Yoruboid had no word for king.

Also, it makes no sense for Edoid to call King Ogie and Oba. Either one is foreign or the other just mean a different thing entirely.

Now, let's look at History.

When the Bini prince arrived Itsekiri, he met riverine Yoruba dwellers and united them. After the kingdom was established, several Bini aristocratic titles were adopted including Ogie, Ologbosere and Iyasere.

Some Yoruba titles like Olu, Oloye and Olareaja were retained. Being an amalgamation of two culture, Itsekiri retained the Ogie title, the Olu title and the Oba title. Whilst Olu of Itsekiri was more pronounced, their kings were also called Ogie and Oba (See the Itsekiri Anthem).

The children of a king are called Oton-Olu while the heir to the throne is called Oma-Oba. Now, the question is, why is Oba found in Itsekiri and not in Ika? Isoko? Urhobo? Weren't these group also influenced by Bini? Why is it that only groups that share affinity with Yoruba have it in their lexicon?

Efewestern, my uncle is greeted locally as "Ogie mwan ghato kpere". My ancestors before that too. The minute the first was appointed duke, as younger princes were back then and even now. The current one happens know Elawure and Enogie of Utese quite well. They are same dukes. The greeting is literally " Long Live our Lord". Ask any Benin person how they greet their local Enogie or Duke. At least, this is simple enough experiment you can conduct.

In the presence of Oba Erediauwa visiting us in 1980 the greetings were: Oba ghato kpere to the Oba and Ogiemwan ghato kpere to our father.

Are you implying that people were greeting our father as an Oba in the presence of Oba Erediauwa?

Haba!

To do conjectures online is one thing, at least what I recommended you to do is easy enough. Very cheap. I can even direct you to as many Enogie palaces as you wish. Just go and observe for a few hours. I will exclude our own so that you don't think it was fixed.

Kings of England were at one point called "King of England, Lord of Ireland and Duke of Normandy". Did it reduce them in any way or proved contradictory? No! Kings, even Pharaohs were regularly called "My Lord" by courtiers. How did it change anything?

There are even more names used to describe or praise Oba and are not seen as contradictory.
Sorry, I don't want to sound condescending but we should endeavour to read very widely to get a wider perspective of things.

Efe, I really expect you to know better than you are arguing.

Samuk
Automaticmotor
UGBE634
Gregyboy

AutomaticMotors:





This fact funny ooo but tragically true!! Them dey try thief Benin/Edo History while fulani don thief their soul already

AreaFada2

Very tragic 😥

AreaFada2:


Efewestern, my uncle is greeted locally as "Ogie mwan ghato kpere". My ancestors before that too. The minute the first was appointed duke, as younger princes were back then and even now. The current one happens know Elawure and Enogie of Utese quite well. They are same dukes. The greeting is literally " Long Live our Lord". Ask any Benin person how they greet their local Enogie or Duke. At least, this is simple enough experiment you can conduct.

In the presence of Oba Erediauwa visiting us in 1980 the greetings were: Oba ghato kpere to the Oba and Ogiemwan ghato kpere to our father.

Are you implying that people were greeting our father as an Oba in the presence of Oba Erediauwa?

Haba!

To do conjectures online is one thing, at least what I recommended you to do is easy enough. Very cheap. I can even direct you to as many Enogie palaces as you wish. Just go and observe for a few hours. I will exclude our own so that you don't think it was fixed.

Kings of England were at one point called "King of England, Lord of Ireland and Duke of Normandy". Did it reduce them in any way or proved contradictory? No! Kings, even Pharaohs were regularly called "My Lord" by courtiers. How did it change anything?

Sorry, I don't want to be condescending but we should endeavour to read very widely to get a wider perspective of things.

Efe, I really expect you to know better than you are arguing.

Samuk
Automaticmotor
UGBE634
Gregyboy

Boss abeg enjoy some Ohenhen! You have done and keep on doing! More grace to your elbow Epa


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDBhbpktfxI&pp=ygUHb2hlbmhlbg%3D%3D

samuk:


Very tragic 😥

Like I swear I was shocked that it was true! That it was solid fact! I notice this their new rubber stamp ooni is veering little by little to the Benin traditional mode of dressing .... Very Soon Edo go join the Fulani to share the spoils

AutomaticMotors:


Boss abeg enjoy some Ohenhen! You have done and keep on doing! More grace to your elbow Epa


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDBhbpktfxI&pp=ygUHb2hlbmhlbg%3D%3D

This your Sunday night groovy sound nor be here o. Where is the Odeku and bush meat to use enjoy this na?

AreaFada2:


Efewestern, my uncle is greeted locally as "Ogie mwan ghato kpere". My ancestors before that too. The minute the first was appointed duke, as younger princes were back then and even now. The current one happens know Elawure and Enogie of Utese quite well. They are same dukes. The greeting is literally " Long Live our Lord". Ask any Benin person how they greet their local Enogie or Duke. At least, this is simple enough experiment you can conduct.

In the presence of Oba Erediauwa visiting us in 1980 the greetings were: Oba ghato kpere to the Oba and Ogiemwan ghato kpere to our father.

Are you implying that people were greeting our father as an Oba in the presence of Oba Erediauwa?

Haba!

To do conjectures online is one thing, at least what I recommended you to do is easy enough. Very cheap. I can even direct you to as many Enogie palaces as you wish. Just go and observe for a few hours. I will exclude our own so that you don't think it was fixed.

Kings of England were at one point called "King of England, Lord of Ireland and Duke of Normandy". Did it reduce them in any way or proved contradictory? No! Kings, even Pharaohs were regularly called "My Lord" by courtiers. How did it change anything?

There are even more names used to describe or praise Oba and are not seen as contradictory.
Sorry, I don't want to sound condescending but we should endeavour to read very widely to get a wider perspective of things.

Efe, I really expect you to know better than you are arguing.

Samuk
Automaticmotor
UGBE634
Gregyboy

The Oba was not a king but an Emperor,an Emperor whose title cannot be interpreted in Benin these Ogies/Ovies are kings not dukes

Not those titles those Enogies the Oba is creating now, of course those ones are dukes

I would never agree the Ogi-egor or Okaevbo of Urhonigbe is a duke to the Oba of Benin or any of the Urhobo kings or Esan kings, I would rather see it as a king-emperor relationship

AutomaticMotors:


Like I swear I was shocked that it was true! That it was solid fact! I notice this their new rubber stamp ooni is veering little by little to the Benin traditional mode of dressing .... Very Soon Edo go join the Fulani to share the spoils

This is what happens when you try to build a fictional none existence fairytale. Look at how quickly their fairytales is eroding before their eyes. Benin that was destroyed and burned down with the Oba deposed is still standing and waxing strong, Ife and the Ooni that got all the backing from the British Colonial masters and western political class is already fading in less than two centuries of fairytales that was built of quick sound.

Today, they do more to claim Benin history than save their souls that's gradually being lost to the caliphate.

AreaFada2:


This your Sunday night groovy sound nor be here o. Where is the Odeku and bush meat to use enjoy this na?

Epa lahor just find red wine for house 4 now, I always wondered where do you reside boss?

samuk:


Are you saying every Tom, Dick and Harry claiming migration from Ife today, did so in the past? Whilst Ife keep the migration stories going, the oba of Benin is keeping the Oduduwa story going by his annual Ugie Oduduwa. I am not sure what the role of the Alaafin is now in the arrangement. I know he gives out some specific chieftaincy titles in yoruba land.

With the way yoruba people and oba are embracing foreign religions such as Christianity and Islam, the role of the Ooni is daily diminishing as well.

At the end, it seems only the Oba of Benin end of the stick will endure well into the future. The Sultan have far more yoruba people under his spiritual leadership than the Ooni. Left for you guys, you would have probably sold Oduduwa and Oranmiyan to the Hausa/Fulani in a few centuries.

Samuk, I nor go gree o, I nor go gree. I go protest.

We nor go let them dash away our illustrious Ekhaladerhan legacy to some desert goons.

At least Ekaladerhan nor use Alibaba flying carpet from Afghanistan, na leg he use waka jeje. No heavenly chains either.

samuk:


This is what happens when you try to build a fictional none existence fairytale. Look at how quickly their fairytales is eroding before their eyes. Benin that was destroyed and burned down with the Oba deposed is still standing and waxing strong, Ife and the Ooni that got all the backing from the British Colonial masters and western political class is already fading in less than two centuries of fairytales that was built of quick sound.

Today, they do more to claim Benin history rather than save their souls that's gradually being lost to the caliphate.

Fulani don chop their soul true true oo, even one of their monarchs there close to ife was even flaunting his Fulaniness with so much pride and vigour some time ago last I heard he even got a wife/yariya from the caliphate

This is what happens when you pride your canoe as a ship , if Eziza blow small breeze now ...........

AreaFada2:


Samuk, I nor go gree o, I nor go gree. I go protest.

We nor go let them dash away our illustrious Ekhaladerhan legacy to some desert goons.

At least Ekaladerhan nor use Alibaba flying carpet from Afghanistan, na leg he use waka jeje. No heavenly chains either.

AreaFada2:


Samuk, I nor go gree o, I nor go gree. I go protest.

We nor go let them dash away our illustrious Ekhaladerhan legacy to some desert goons.

At least Ekaladerhan nor use Alibaba flying carpet from Afghanistan, na leg he use waka jeje. No heavenly chains either.

Oba Akenzua saw the handwriting on the wall, that's why he hurriedly carried his thing (Ekaladerhan AKA Oduduwa) and run away from the western region. this people cannot be trusted, they flirt with every foreign religion.

Samuk

UGBE634:
:DThe Oba was not a king but an Emperor,an Emperor whose title cannot be interpreted in Benin these Ogies/Ovies are kings not dukes

Not those titles those Enogies the Oba is creating now, of course those ones are dukes

I would never agree the Ogi-egor or Okaevbo of Urhonigbe is a duke to the Oba of Benin, I would rather see it as a king-emperor relationship

And those created 200 or 250 years ago?

Remember that the status of any ruler has to be officially gazetted in modern times. Is Ogiegor gazetted as a King like Olu of Warri or Delta Ovies? If not what anyone thinks is officially of no value.

Ogiegor is part of Uzama N'ebie or junior Uzama. Junior Uzama is led by Chief Ineh. Ogiamien is a junior member of the junior Uzama too. In case Uzama senior refuse to do their job, the junior will be drafted in. Just like Ihama took over from Isekhure, even though Ihama is father of Isekhure historically to begin with.

AutomaticMotors:
Samuk

His name is Oluwo of Iwoland, Osun State, Abdulrasheed.

samuk:


His name is Oluwo of Iwoland, Osun State, Abdulrasheed.

Yes oo I even posted screenshots check