samuk:


Oba Akenzua saw the handwriting on the wall, that's why he hurriedly carried his thing (Ekaladerhan AKA Oduduwa) and run away from the western region. this people cannot be trusted, they flirt with every foreign religion.

AreaFada2:


And those created 200 or 250 years ago?

Remember that the status of any ruler has to be officially gazetted in modern times. Is Ogiegor gazetted as a King like Olu of Warri or Delta Ovies? If not what anyone thinks is officially of no value.

Ogiegor is part of Uzama N'ebie or junior Uzama. Junior Uzama is led by Chief Ineh. Ogiamien is a junior member of the junior Uzama too. In case Uzama senior refuse to do their job, the junior will be drafted in. Just like Ihama took over from Isekhure, even though Ihama is father of Isekhure historically to begin with.

AreaFada2:


Akenzua was educated at Kings College Lagos. He knew the language and culture. So nobody could deceive him.

AutomaticMotors:


Thank God ooo that he cut out when he did because if he didn't even you AreaFada2 can't save us in this culture section

AreaFada2:

AutoM. who be me? I for dey wail for desert o. Nobody for listen. Even all the history I saw been written since I was a kid for help me sef. Dem for brainwash more Edo Benin people with Lagos-Ibadan express publishers o.

AutomaticMotors:





When I first came on nairaland culture section many years ago their brainwashing machinery was very shiny and well oiled it was only until I started seeing your push back I started having hope oo but now thank God all your hard work paid off because their machine is all rusty and dirty now I even heard no mechanic again to service it I heard he threw away the spanner saying "The Edo fire is too hot" he can't continue na just some homeless kids dey Try rub oil in machine once in awhile

AreaFada2:


Abeg, wey that meme of girl lying on the floor laughing and Drogba own.

AutomaticMotors:


Chaiii I don't have it o
If someone can help us pls post the meme boss requested oo

AreaFada2:


Actually SW people are very very good people generally. Those from Eastern part are much like Edo people. Whenever I go there, Eastern people don't see us any different. They are very aware of our shared history. I have family all over the area. Some know even our links more than me sef.

Some NLers are just too enthusiastic to jump online thinking it is their ethnic duty. Most posting here don't promote the culture more than me. Our shared culture is so vibrant in the East and I promote it in my own way. If we don't promote it, the Edo in those cultures will be lost. And everybody will be poorer for it culturally.

Alaafin Of Oyo Fights Ooni Of Ife Over Insensitive Oranmiyan Comment

10 years ago
Dec 17, 2012 – Alaafin Of Oyo Fights Ooni Of Ife Over Insensitive Oranmiyan Comment

The frosty relationship between Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade and the Alaafin of Oyo, Oba Lamidi Adeyemi III continued over the weekend, as Oba Adeyemi lashed out at Oba Sijuwade, describing him as one fond of distorting history and ignorant of the details of his ancestral roots. Oni had during the Centenary anniversary of late Chief Obafemi Awolowo held at the MUSON Centre in Lagos criticized Alaafin over the celebration of Oranyan.

He was said to have described Alaafin as not being connected to Oranyan, one of the sons of Oduduwa and so not qualified to celebrate him. Ooni was said to have stressed that Alaafin was reigning over a dead empire, saying that Alaafin was a rascally person and that “Alaafin is not Oranyan”, but he had kept his cool and went ahead with the Oranyan celebration, “which attracted many dignitaries from all walks of life in Nigeria and in the Diaspora”.

Oba Adeyemi while reacting at the weekend during the special birthday lecture organized in his honour by the ‘City People Magazine’, entitled: “Reviving Old Oyo Customs and Tradition”, delivered by a Portuguese national, Ms Paula Gomes (Alaafin’s Cultural Ambassador), the monarch said he had decided not to engage in altercations with Ooni any longer since former President, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo summoned him, the Awujale of Ijebu, the late Oba Oyebade Lipede and the Ooni to an all-night meeting, and everybody had agreed to cease fire.

He however said despite keeping his cool, Ooni had continued to castigate him and his traditional activities, adding that he had deemed it appropriate “to recall history, educate the Ooni and let the world know the truth.” Making reference to series of documentary evidence, Alaafin recalled that Oyo is superior to Ife in many ramifications, asking, “where did this Yoruba Language that we are speaking originate from?

Which language was used in writing the Bible? It is Oyo Language. Why not Ife language? Where else are they speaking Ife Language apart from Lagere Quarters? Why are the Modakeke people, who are living behind Ife not speaking Ife Language?”. Alaafin further said that he had confronted Ooni with various questions in the past, even before Chief Obasanjo at the meeting, but he could not answer them, “instead, he came with books that could fill three baskets”.

Alaafin said that, “In 2009, Ooni had rubbished the institution of Alaafin, but a year after when he was celebrating his birthday said Oranyan was his father’s ancestor. “How could you have denigrated your ancestors and later claim that you are a son of the Alaafin. Anybody who does not know his ancestral roots, who did not strive to learn about it, and does not learn from those who know, will continue to make mistakes and flounder in ignorance. That is part of Ooni’s inadequacies. “When we wanted to celebrate Sango, they said Sango is not Yoruba. Sango studied Quoran. He was the one that was first conferred with the title of ‘Akeugberu’. He was the first in the art of adjudicating justly.

When he was born, the umbilical cord that joined him with his mother could not be detached. Because they pulled it and it would not cut, it became the name ‘Afonja’. The glory, success and tradition of Yoruba started from Oyo”, the Alaafin emphasized. He added that Oyo state during the administration of late Chief Bola Ige (SAN) came up with a stamped paper recognizing Oranyan as the Head of the Princes and Princesses in Yorubaland, “and that Oyo dominated all other nations, namely: Ife, Ijebu, Egba, Ijesa, Sabe, Owu and so on”

[Source: The Sun News)

The battle of the monarchs…….

Alaafin further said that he had confronted Ooni with various questions in the past, even before Chief Obasanjo at the meeting, but he could not answer them, “instead, he came with books that could fill three baskets”.

UGBE634:
I can't be talking with a non-entity like you,
Ogie- king
Enogie-Talks of the personage, The king. I am not arguing with you,I am telling you I am not your mate. Oba is anything but native, has no meaning whatsoever in Edo

davidnazee:


If it was a non Benin person arguing like this I will have more tolerance for their ignorance but for you that calls your self Benin, you are outright dumb.
How can Enogie mean "the ruler" yet when refering to the title holder we say "The Enogie" or "an Enogie". Enogie is one word and simply means Duke but a low self esteem man like you will not understand.

scholes0:


Bros, When a Benin person says Ijesu n'Ogie, what does it mean?

Does it mean Jesus is a smaller duke?

davidnazee:


Ijesu n' Ogie means Jesus the ruler
Ijesu n' Oba means Jesus the King
Ijesu ne' Enogie means Jesus the duke, however we don't say Ijesu ne' enogie because he is more than a duke. We either say Jesus the ruler(ogie) or Jesus the king(Oba).

AutomaticMotors:
Just for laughs





AreaFada2
Samuk
Thebadpolitician

UGBE634:
Royalty is already a group of Royalty, there is nothing like a group of Royalty, Royalty as a word is limitless

you people seem to have a shallow explanation to these things
The word Ogie has existed before the Oba dynasty, who were they now subservient to, who were they now under

The word Ogie means king
Enogie -the king

It is Egie that means royalty

Who were they under before the Emergence of Oba in Benin

For example you can say Oba-mu-egie me meaning Oba has bequeathed royal to me, a chieftaincy title or so

Using Ogie in that contest Oba mu-ogie me would not make sense

UGBE634:
The Oba was not a king but an Emperor,an Emperor whose title cannot be interpreted in Benin these Ogies/Ovies are kings not dukes

Not those titles those Enogies the Oba is creating now, of course those ones are dukes

I would never agree the Ogi-egor or Okaevbo of Urhonigbe is a duke to the Oba of Benin or any of the Urhobo kings or Esan kings, I would rather see it as a king-emperor relationship

UGBE634:
You seem to beunrepentantly foolish, the word the is an english word. You only use the when speaking English.

Enogie-the En there is confering the Ogieship on a person.

For instance, you say En[/b]Ogie oghe Egbean.

The word Ogie is king, not confering it on a person
[b]En[/b]ogie-means [b]the king. The en there makes the Enogie, definite confining it to a person.


There was nothing like duke until the Emergence of Obas in Benin. Up until the time of Obas in Benin, who were the Ogies in Benin under, I ask

UGBE634:
like Jesu'noba and Jesu n'Ogie means one and the same thing, just that one is local and the Other is Foreign

Enogie and Ogie means one and the same thing

I wish Bini has grown to the size of yoruba, where it is spoken by non natives, you guys would have seen the height of this boy's foolishness

davidnazee:


Comprehension remains the most difficult thing for you. See the way you are foolishly slicing words like sliced bread lol..

Enogie oghe Egbean simply mean Duke of Egbean.
Saying, Osaro ne' enogie oghe egbean will mean Osaro the enogie (duke) of egbean.

Ogie is generic word describing ruler
Oba simply mean King
Enogie is one word and it means duke.

davidnazee:


Your ignorance is appalling.. I'm trying to help you but you refusing any help.

What is the meaning of Ogierioba in Edo language? Or you never heard the saying, "Oba n'Ogie" in Edo language? Do you know what they mean?

Also if Osaro is an enogie, do you say in Edo; Osaro Enogie or Osaro ne' Enogie?
Osaro ne' enogie means Osaro the enogie.

Enogie is one word, splitting it into 2 words is like saying Kingsley is King Sley..

Ogie is a generic word for ruler. Oba (king) of Benin is the Ogie (ruler) of all Edos, enogies are smaller rulers (ogies) in their domains.
If you understand the difference between ruler and king you will probably understand difference between Ogie and Oba.

Thebadpolitican:


I just tire he is trying to force is own narrative

Please let's start calling the title of the Oba in full seems the other tribes are a bit confuse about it, if we began calling the Oba title in full as omo no' ba, then they they will know the title is not just oba alone like the yorubas are making them believe and that will bring a sense of belonging to the edo people

I notice our elderly one never one day at all referd to the Oba of benin as oba rather they always call in full, omo no' ba, oba is a short form introduced by the European

Efewestern:
Supremacism is the reason we won't get anything right as regards to our historical connections and heritage.

Some things shouldn't even be debated when the facts are there. You can't claim to apply common sense and logic and still believe somethings.

The Oba title debate is funny to me because Edo is the core root of most South Southerners and it won't be difficult to validate some claims. If you say the Oba title was used for over 1000years, then other edoid groups would have retained it in their various dialects.

As we speak, the only title that spreads across all related group is Ogie. Now here are my questions.

* When was Oba first used ?

* Why isn't it found in any Edoid languages?

* Most Edoid groups were very independent from Bini influences and would have adopted the title for their leaders if it was the title used pre-migration.

* Why was Ogie the general accepted word for king? Even Unrelated bini-influenced groups like Iwere used Ogi(e)ame. Why not Oba-Ame?

I believe there is a missing link somewhere. The dots aren't connecting.

RedboneSmith:


Wow. Sir, what mischief is this? Why are you re-writing the words of the late A. F. C. Ryder? This intellectual dishonesty is not necessary na.

You took the words that the late historian wrote in his chapter "Benin Kingdom" in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History and you mangled it to say the opposite of what the historian wrote.

Ryder did not write that Benin sending for an alien (Yoruba) ruler was inherently implausible. These are Ryder's exact words: "...we seem to tread on firmer ground when we come to the traditions which recount in some detail how a number of Benin chiefs, rather than accept one of their own number as an hereditary ruler, sought a sovereign from the Yoruba dynasty ruling in Ife. There is nothing inherently implausible in this story". (page 110)

Yes, Ryder did say that next to nothing was know about the Yoruba at that early date, but a full quote illustrates that he was not heading to the conclusion that your mangled quote portrays. Ryder's words in full on page 112 of the same book:" What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."

There is no doubt that Professor Ryder was a proponent of the "Out of Yorubaland" theory as regards the current Benin dynasty. There is nothing wrong with you holding a different opinion from this. But to wilfully distort a scholar's words is a hell of a desperate move. Not cool, bro.

AreaFada2:


Let me tell you why. Whether Edoid groups were largely independent or dependent, most acknowledged Oba's superiority. Even those that were more independent sought Oba's confirmation or blessing. Even outside direct Edo areas.

For example, in 1818 (just yesterday in historical terms), Benin sacked Akure when the new Deji of Akure refused to accept instruments of office from Chief Osagwe, Oba Osemwende's emissary. The Deji even murdered Osague (a title also adopted by some Yoruba monarchies as Sagwe or Sawe as a chief). It was serious rebellion and breach of established order. Of course Oba demanded Deji's head physically and got it.

As for Warri, in 1480, Oba Olua sent his son Prince Iginuwa (Ginuwa) to go and be the Lord of the Seas as his new domain. There are various versions as to how this came about. But he was to be "Ogie Amen". About 8 or 9 years ago, the father of current Olu said was now a Christian and wanted to drop Ogiame title. His own family and Iwerre youth protested. He was advised to retain it or abdicate. Gov. Uduaghan, Rita Lori Ogbegbor and others had to intervene. He retained the name to calm things. Iwerre people said Ogiame is the tittle Iginuwa brought from Benin and there is no dropping it. Adding Olu to it is fine. I posted the link to the story on NL before.

All rulers below the Oba were never called Oba in Benin Empire. They were seen as dukes/Enogie/Ogie/Enigie. In the same way Enogie of Utese and Enogie of Usen are seen today. If they were in Delta or outside Edo South, they might be officially called king by now.

Even when Lagos monarchy was founded by Oba Orhogbua of Benin, it was meant as a dukedom, under Benin and that was in Benin view the case until 1861 when Britain took over Lagos with Eleko Dosunmu. Lagos rulers did not even use Oba title before then but Eleko.

In essence, in Benin view, Oba was not just a kingship title but also an emperor. Therefore, no other ruler believed to have allegiance to Benin would bear Oba title. Even if their Ogie title, due to influence and size of their domain, would equate to kingship. Obas of Benin were administratively very precise. Names, titles and all were well-controlled. They always figured out ways to outmanoeuvre the rising powers and influence of Benin High Aristocracy and areas considered Benin territory, whatever people now say of their history post-1897 and especially in current 9ja with rise of ethnic nationalism. It marvelled Europeans already from 1470s.

I have read numerous PG and doctoral theses on Benin History by researchers from across the world and it's quite amazing what they reveal everyday. From Oba Palace Musicology to Palace Societies to Councillors of State.

As for how long Oba title has existed, it was in Benin before Eweka 1 Dynasty. We have exhausted the history of the title here over the years in many threads and posts.

Today, nobody is superior over anyone. It doesn't feed anyone. History just has be straight.

UGBE634:
Ogie as a word seem to have been limited in Use and practice since the Emergence of Oba in Benin, I am talking about the meaning, the true meaning of the word before the Emergence of Obas.

. In this case, it is talking about the fact that the several kings who go by the name Ogie cannot emerge as Oba (as the Oba, a position which was alien to us and whose meaning we cannot decipher, whose influence we feared. whose might we adore, that is why I refered him as emperor, because we cannot call someone king, whose title we cannot dissect that statement is deep, it is trying to show the dichotomy of the word Oba/Ogie and the conflict between them, it is talking about how one is far bigger than the other in Benin traditional practice. How one seem to have been subdued for another, Ogie-irrioba.

Oba'r'Ogie means Oba is king, Oba as a word is not native, when you understand that, you will be good, but I know comprehension is clearly not your forte


Oba as a word is not native, Oba'nOgie means Oba the king, the Binis referring to him as Ogie is referring him as king in the language they understand

Osaro ne' Enogie is used for description, to describe properly the person you are talking about.

For example- Osaro rhio Okhuo ne

Meaning- Osaro has gotten married o

Someone will now ask, De-Osaro no khin?

Someone will now ask-which Osaro

The reply would be- Osaro ne' Enogie oghe Egbean?

Meaning- Osaro that is the king Over Egbean
Meaning- Osaro that is the king of Egbean

that is why I keep asking, there were some Enogies in Benin before the Emergence of Obas in Benin who were they under


When you answer that question, your ignorance is cured for life