bundarina:
Not only is it false, only stupid people think an ethnic of people descend from a man, not only is it unscientifical, it belongs to mythology, and the same mythology isn't even believed by most myth keepers. Also, the Yoruba are an ancient group and with large number, they have birthed many ethnicites, including the Edo, not the other way around. The Yorubas were also kind enough to teach their culture and influence, like teaching of the bini bronzes and other arts and crafts.

You're mad get out of here drunkard

Or go back and read from the beging of this thread

We are discussing if the benin-ife relationship existed at all and found out it never did you're saying some entirely stupid

AutomaticMotors:
Even to this day see how easy it is for Yorubas at their Core to welcome foreign influences with so much Joy and vigour but it is hard for them to believe they welcomed a Benin prince oduduwa

Samuk
AreaFada2

Yorubas are the most ethno pure group in Nigeria. The Arewas, are all influenced by each other's foreign influence, so as the Igbos, Edos, Efik, etc with each other's foreign inputs. Oduduwa was a Yoruba prince. Edo-Binis were and still remain an irrelevant group aside from the bronze work taught to them by Yoruba Smith's. Bini was also a name ascribed to your people by the Yorubas, as Ile-Ibinu😂 (angry land). Mind you, y'all were several irreligious ethnicites, and still are today. The Bini's have nothing and so are always seeking clot from the superior Yorubas. I'll understand too, if I was like you 😂🤷.

Edeyoung:



You're mad get out of here drunkard

Or go back and read from the beging of this thread

We are discussing if the benin-ife relationship existed at all and found out it never did you're saying some entirely stupid

Then why are you crying. It's always you dumb shits discussing your copiums, along with Nyamiri, in this cursed colonial entity called Nigeria.

bundarina:


Then why are you crying. It's always you dumb shits discussing your copiums, along with Nyamiri, in this cursed colonial entity called Nigeria.

Stop saying rubbish make bottle nor go land for your head

bundarina

Edeyoung:



Stop saying rubbish make bottle nor go land for your head

Make the drunkard no forget What Benin flag looks like oo ... I norfit shout

Edeyoung:



You're mad get out of here drunkard

Or go back and read from the beging of this thread

We are discussing if the benin-ife relationship existed at all and found out it never did you're saying some entirely stupid

bundarina:


Then why are you crying. It's always you dumb shits discussing your copiums, along with Nyamiri, in this cursed colonial entity called Nigeria.

Where did this Balablu bulaba guy come from and what is him saying exactly. Guy you missed road enter this thread?

samuk:


Where did this Balablu bulaba guy come from and what is him saying exactly. Guy you missed road enter this thread?

He come find agbado (corn)

Edeyoung:


Rather did many research in benin city he did more writing in benin history than any tribe in Nigeria

You saying rather not knowing the yoruba history to draw conclusions in the Benin-ife relationship is absurd

If Ryder could somehow trace the benin relationship to nupe then he definitely saw fragment of evidence between both areas, he could likewise have also seen for the yorubas too but non was there and don't assume that the edo environment has somehow eroded it away when we know it was never even there

Ryder acted on the agreement of both the edos and yoruba historian on the benin-ife history is not something he discovered himsef like that of the nupe-benin relationship, he went ahead to give it a sense of believe and did is research and found nothing


We all know the benin-ife relationship is a political game that was played during the early formation of Nigeria to unite both tribe under a strong political presence

No matter how old an interaction between two tribe took place there must be a relics left by the one that was later absorbed

Good morning, Gregyboy. How are you today? I will be lying if I say I haven't missed your incoherence. 🙂

Edeyoung:



Stop saying rubbish make bottle nor go land for your head

Shush abeg

AutomaticMotors:


He come find agbado (corn)

Buhari is a town hall different from Balablu bulaba

Efewestern:


In my own enclave, we are expected to pay our homage to AKA (Bini) during a coronation of a new King or High chief (a practice that has long being abandoned).

No one is disputing the Oba's influences. His influences was never in question. We are only asking questions about the root of the word Oba because we can't seem to trace it in the Edoid lexicon.

Even if Oba was exclusively reserved for the emperor of Bini, there could have been reference to the word with the Edoid family. For example, the Urhobos refer to God as Oghene but Bini word for God (Osanobua) is very much traceable in several Urhobo dialects (Osonobrugwe/osolobrugue). This is validity of a word within a family group.

Also, why is it that only non-edoid group call their Kings Oba? Usen and even Iwere. These groups interchangeably call their kings Oba. Why are they comfortable with the Oba word?

This non edo tribe began to adopt the title oba
In after the ooni of ife in 1930 first adopted it as a generic title to his original title ooni before then they were addressed as
Ooni of ife sir adeyemi... By the British and the other yoruba monarchs followed suit after the ooni replace sir with oba, including the edo groups that traces their origin to yorubas
I repeat all of them bought into the trend all a suddenly, the only exception is a bilingual benin community in benin city that is both of yoruba and edo origin due to her closeness to both tribe Geographicaly the title of their king is olu-tese of utese he knows the tradition that if he attached oba to his title it becomes a problem and as such as been confered as an enogie by the Oba but if he was outside of benin that would have been a different case

The generic title for yoruba kingship is olu and not oba but the yorubas didn't used that because it never commanded respect unlike when they used the word Oba, the Oba of benin let them use is title because as at then the benin were still in political alliance with the
Yorubas and the Oba even agreed to be one of the sons of oduduwa for political benefit that the benin lacked when the oppression was now so very much in the western region then benin sort to disassociate itself from the false history
And leave the western region

Again to your last question why are they no ediod sub group using the word oba in Thier lexicon, it was a forbidden to call yourself oba or use the word as a name without permission even in benin city and again most edo sub group were closer to their ogie and the people the ogie govern may not even know the Oba existed apart from the palace


Some edo groups used it like the screenshot overthere is an esan name and why it could be found in esan because they constantly had contact with benin through history

RedboneSmith:


Good morning, Gregyboy. How are you today? I will be lying if I say I haven't missed your incoherence. 🙂

Bleep off bro


I don't see why you're here we are not discussing benin-ibo today samuk has done a good job unreveling how we sacrificed your ancestors to our gods

Again I am not Gregyboy

samuk:


Buhari is a town hall different from Balablu bulaba

Edeyoung:


Bleep off bro


I don't see why you're here we are not discussing benin-ibo today samuk has done a good job unreveling how we sacrificed your ancestors to our gods

Again I am not Gregyboy

I tire oo That "Carton Head" go soon catch my bullet again

UGBE634:
That the word "Oba" is not Edo is not what we should contest



These are the only set of persons that go with the Oba title in Edo state

They have something to do with yoruba or come outrightly from it.

Oba of Benin
Oba of Agbede
Oba-Oluogbe of Usen

Omo'n'Oba'n'Edo-

It literally translates to mean-

The one that is king over Edo

The etymology of the word Oba is in yoruba and not Edo, they usually tell you that the ba means light but the way it is pronounced suggest otherwise, the pronunciation of the ba is usually relaxed, it's not pronounced in a way to suggest light. There is no strong stress on the "ba"

Also the dating of Usen and Utesse royal line seem to tally with the Oba's dating

The Ososomaye juju that is obviously not Edo has been in the Oba's palace for centuries,

Sango, Orunmila and others, and their presence in Benin city seem to be tied to the Oba's emergence as king in Benin city, it is not coincidence. When you tie these points together, you might have gotten your answer

Also the republican system seems to be the norm for all Edo save for Benin who has an emperor moreso with an "Oba" title.

Yoruba man


Sango, orumila are they idols inside the palace if no then you should understand if benin is bothered by neighboring yoruba villages it is normal to have their gods around

If this idols are not found in the palace then you should know the edo monarchy is not of yoruba origin


Ugbe you're a yoruba for you lying you will meet your fate as soon as possible

Edeyoung:


Yoruba man




Ugbe634 you're a yoruba for you lying you will meet your fate as soon as possible

UGBE634:
Idu is an Udo thing not a Benin thing, Benin as a city is too recent for the pa Idu story. The earliest of Binis lived in Udo. You cannot be attributing Udo glory to Benin. Check around you, it is common knowledge, everyone greeting La-Idu are from Udo.

It is also common knowledge that the first Ogisos lived in Udo going by Etsako and Urhobo narratives as against some Binis who would want to attribute Udo's glory to Benin. Udo is our oldest town by a mile, it is uncontested. The Eriwmin-Idu shrine in Udo is mightier than the one in Benin. That shows its root.

You're a mad man

Edeyoung:


Bleep off bro


I don't see why you're here we are not discussing benin-ibo today samuk has done a good job unreveling how we sacrificed your ancestors to our gods

Again I am not Gregyboy

Don't burst an artery, Gregyboy. The healthcare system isn't so good where you are. You might die. 😂

I was never here to get into this unending Edo-Yoruba feud. I corrected a misrepresentation and went back to the sidelines.

And where did Samuk "unrevel" [sic] that my people in Anioma were sacrificed to your gods, and why would anyone be proud of such a display of barbarism, assuming it did happen? 🤔

I LOVE THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!

It deserves some BOBOTI 🐐🐐🐐

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Ng6jnKVws

🔊🔊🔊

davidnazee:


Lol.. Please stop confusing yourself further. This your interpretation will only give you f9.
when a researcher uses the phrase "it seems" it means he didn't find any evidence to make a factual conclusion.

And this second statement; "What innovations the dynasty may have brought from its place of origin we cannot determine because next to nothing is known about the Yoruba peoples themselves at this early date. The essential innovation was presumably the monarchy itself: all the features that made the Benin kingship distinctive, and very different from the corresponding institutions in Yorubaland, seem to have emerged in later years when the dynasty must have become absorbed in Edo environment."" simply mean that afterall studies he finds no similarities between Edo people and their monarchy against the Yorbuas and their monarchies. No single similarity, nothing for him to suggest indeed there was a relationship.

Go back to English class bro.

Even our bronze casting when it was extensively researched on they found out the artwroks were entirely different from the yoruba artwork in the making and design too and even the usage and materials

Efewestern:


Exactly my point. Why is Oba only found in groups that share affinity with Yoruba? Why can't we find a trace in other pure Edoid groups ?

The supremacy of the Oba's isn't a enough to invalidate some observations. From what we can deduce: Ogie was once used by the Bini empire pre-migration.

Bini is the root. Before Ogie get accepted by all, then we can conclude that it was the right acceptable word for king before a major change in government.

Ogie isn't less than Oba. Both mean the same thing. Only that one is purely Edoid and the other...

@bolded, another valid observations. Most Edoid groups are republican. There's much to know about our past.

I guess you have seen my screenshot earlier

Are you aware oba never crowned any ruler in yoruba land ogie....but rather a distinct title
The Era were dukes were crowned ogie was quiet a long time ago or would I say depended on the Oba


So if the yoruba territory didn't use Ogie definitely the world oba should mean king to them the Lagos monarchy was crowned eleko of Eko and not ogie or enogie of Eko, if that was so the word ogie should be widely use in the entire yoruba area but since the title was never introduced then the one which they were familiar with would be oba to refer to their Supreme king in benin


The word oba began to florish in the yoruba language in the 1930 more, ask yourself was there any yoruba person before the formation of Nigeria that had the prefix oba, like obansanjo attached to is name
If you can find any then I will have to agree to you on your thought

But I can show you benin people in European document that had oba as prefix to their name
As early as 1400AD in a written document made by Europeans

But you can never find any of that name in yoruba land until after the formation of Nigeria like you see names like obansanjo now

The owo had a parable discribing the Oba of benin as a man of valour,

We adopted the use of President after 1960 you can see how far the word president is so common to Nigerians and we even have songs
And parable using the word president does it mean Nigeria own the word president
the popularity of a word among a particular does not determine the origin, if ogie was used by all Southerners including yorubas and ibos before the formation of Nigeria trust me no one would admit again the word is a benin word

The reasons you're seeing bilingual yoruba benin community galmouring to use the word oba as a title is because of the trend that happend in 1930 within the yoruba monarchs some of them when they have issues with the palace they start shifting to their yoruba ethnic
Ask them if their ancestors who ruled them use the title oba to address themselves in the first place


The idiot you're supporting is a yoruba man claiming edo

Again the popularity of a particular word amongst a group does not always mean it originated from the people

Thirdly if we are to assume the Oba of benin is of yoruba monarchy then how come we don't have yoruba names inside the benin palace, names of chiefs bearing a corrupted form of yoruba names how come the benin palace doesn't have the yoruba idols if there was a really a shift in the monarchy

But yet we have yoruba idols in benin because we have bilingual villages sounding benin that has yoruba origin but it couldn't get to the palace because the Oba is a full benin blood

RedboneSmith:


Bloody nose?

The way you people claim 'victory' is very funny. TAO will trash you people with concrete peer-reviewed scholarly submissions. You people will claim you gave her a bloody nose, even when the interaction in which she dragged all of you like small Tiger gen is there for everyone to see.

I came on to demonstrate that Ryder was misquoted by one of you. I did that. I put all the evidence out. And then stepped back, because I have no interest in the broader discussion going on here. You came and claimed I was given a bloody nose. By who? How? Gregyboy used to do this a lot with me too, which was really weird, because that boy has never made one coherent point all the time I have known him here.

One wonders if this is a peculiar Benin trait - to claim phantom victories.

Is that how your empire was also built - on the back of phantom victories? One would hope not.

Biko leave that my girlfriend out of it, she has been reading all the post quietly, looking for the slightest opportunity to jump in.

On a more serious note, I see a win win scenario for the Benin palace. Others may not fully understand it now. At the moment, it looks like a supremacy battle but anyone with critical thinking ability will understand the smartness of the Benin noble men that adopted Oranmiyan and Oduduwa.

Amongst Ife, Benin and Oyo, Benin is the only one that have the solid traditional institution to carry Oduduwa into the future, the oba of Benin is the future of Oduduwa dynasty, pause and think of the implementation of this for millions of yoruba diaspora, to better understand this, look at what the Catholic Church did with the Christian religion that had it's root in the middle east. Jesus was a Jewish but the headquarters of the religion he founded is in Rome and the most senior representative or most holyhead have always be predominantly Europeans.

In a few centuries, I wouldn't be surprised if Islam and Christianity overrun most part of yoruba land and Ife itself. We already know what these foreign religions do to traditional institutions. Future yoruba diaspora that subscribe to the Oduduwa narrative and want to experience the African traditional way of life will only have Benin to turn to. The Edo state government in conjunction with the Europeans have already started west Africa cultural district in Benin city. It's been funded by the Europeans. 60 Germany delegates including their cultural minister were in Benin city few weeks ago.

Long ago the Benin traditional council insulated the Benin traditions from the modern day dominant Christian religion by creating an orthodox Church for the monarchy and palace. This Church (Holy Arosa) is headed by the oba of Benin, like the church of England is headed by the king or queen of England.

The purpose of this engagements for someone like myself is to separate the authentic history from the political history for the benefit of those miseducated Edo people.

When Rome fell, they appropriated Christianity and souls of billions, when great Britain fell, they gave the world their English language, when Benin fell they also wrote themselves into the heart of millions of yoruba people across the world through Oduduwa. Very few empires in history was able to do this. Egypt, Athens, etc are almost completely lost leaving ruins behind. The endearing legacy of great empires and kingdoms is to remain in people's heart.

Irrespective of what we say here, the millions of yoruba that believes in Oduduwa carries the oba of Benin in their heart. You cannot discuss Oduduwa and Oranmiyan without Benin.

UGBE634:
Idu is an Udo thing not a Benin thing, Benin as a city is too recent for the pa Idu story. The earliest of Binis lived in Udo. You cannot be attributing Udo glory to Benin. Check around you, it is common knowledge, everyone greeting La-Idu are from Udo.

It is also common knowledge that the first Ogisos lived in Udo going by Etsako and Urhobo narratives as against some Binis who would want to attribute Udo's glory to Benin. Udo is our oldest town by a mile, it is uncontested. The Eriwmin-Idu shrine in Udo is mightier than the one in Benin. That shows its root.

Can I ask you a small question? I was recently speaking with a man from Umoghun n'Okhua, and he said their greeting is Lamogun. I was under the impression that this greeting was exclusive to the Oba's family in Benin.

Are their non-Ọba lineages, especially in Iyekorhionmwon that use Lamogun?

RedboneSmith:


Can I ask you a small question? I was recently speaking with a man from Umoghun n'Okhua, and he said their greeting is Lamogun. I was under the impression that this greeting was exclusive to the Oba's family in Benin.

Are their non-Ọba lineages, especially in Iyekorhionmwon that use Lamogun?

Lamogun was not always the greetings of the oba of Benin, it originally belongs to Igun Street. The Oba bought it from them. Those that migrated from Igun Street in ancient time before Lamogun was appropriated by the Oba would have taken it with them.

RedboneSmith:


Nawa oh. The English that Ryder wrote is quite clear na. Why are you people reading something else there? 😳 It's rather weird.

Let me provide further quotes from that same chapter "The Benin Kingdom" written by AFC Ryder. It is chapter 6 in the book Groundwork of Nigerian History edited by Professor Obaro Ikime, for anyone who wants to check it out for themselves.

On page 110, Ryder wrote: "At the end of the 15th century, the first Portuguese visitors to Benin were told that the Ọba received investiture and regalia from a distant potentiate whom the Edo knew as Ogane; this 'suzerain' may have been the Oni of Ife. Before 1897 parts of the body of a dead Ọba were sent to Ife for burial. But although there are good grounds for accepting some ritual and dynastic relationship between Benin and Ife, exactly how it was established is hard to determine. "

Further down on page 112, after mentioning that Benin chiefs told Captain Roupell in 1898 that Benin people sent to Ife in the Yoruba country for a king and Eweka was sent to them, Ryder wrote this in conclusion: " The most that one can safely conclude from this evidence is that Eweka was probably the first Ọba to rule in Benin, and that he was probably of Yoruba origin, though not necessarily first-hand from Ife."

There are "maybes" and "probablys" in Ryder's submission, because, of course, when you're working with oral tradition (and even written evidence in some cases) there is nothing like 100% certainty. But it is clear from the chapter that you derived your initial misquote from that Ryder was actually leaning towards a Yoruba (if not specifically Ìfẹ́) origin for the Eweka Dynasty.

Let me reiterate that I do not necessarily agree or disagree with what Ryder had to say. I don't care one way or another. My entire point is simply: Don't misquote a scholar in order to make a point.

Also, I see a screenshot flying around from a paper Ryder wrote where he pointed to the Niger-Benue area. The screenshot comes from a paper Ryder wrote in 1965 called "A Reconsideration of Ife-Benin Relationship". The predominant view in Nigerian historiography until 1965 was that the Eweka Dynasty was of Yoruba (Ife) origin. In 1965, Ryder came up with an interesting new theory which he published in that paper. It was really interesting and sparked off a conversation in scholarly circles. JK Thornton building on that even wrote his own paper, where he argued that the Ogane was the Ata of Igala. In any case, both Ryder's and Thornton's theories never really caught on in academic circles. It even appears that Ryder himself came to question his theories later in his career, because in this chapter (that I have quoted and you have misquoted) that he wrote for the book Groundwork of Nigerian History in 1980, he did not mention his 1965 hypothesis at all, but seems to have reverted to the traditional orthodoxy of a Yoruba (even if not specifically Ife) origin for the Eweka Dynasty.

Peace. Happy Sunday ✌️

This is copy and paste from tao11

samuk:


Whilst the Ooni and Alaafin were fighting dirty in public, they created what they call ancient burial sites for Oba of Benin in Ife. Oba of Benin is the only one amongst them with such honour. Although the so called burial pit was excavated by the Europeans that were not convinced about the story and found no remain of human bones, which confirmed what they already suspected.

It was because of European suspicious of the story that made them excavated the site. The Europeans have previously documented Benin history for centuries and couldn't find any connection with Ife. They felt their intelligence was being insulted with the Ife fairytale and they investigated and found no connection between Benin and Ife that can be backed up by history.

You can see that Ife and Oyo doesn’t even speak the same language according to the Alaafin in that article you posted. The common language thing was Oyo's contribution to the western region unification arrangement I talked about earlier.

Whenever Dr Egharevba is quoted in Benin, the Benin nobles usually laugh at the person's ignorance. You can Google the Esogban's reply to the late Ooni when the Ooni quoted Dr Egharevba during the public disagreement on Benin/Ife connection between late oba Erediawa and late Ooni.

If not for the fact that Awolowo introduced tribalism and the yoruba are over zealous plus the need to preserve Benin authentic history, there would have been no need to reveal the Ife fairytale.

1. The oba of Benin contributed his centuries old history and got back a very senior role being the chosen heir to Oranmiyan and Oduduwa. The Oba of Benin also got special ancient burial site created for his ancestors, he his the only one amongst them to have such in Ife.

2. Ooni contributed Ife as the centre of migration of everyone and got a lesser role of chief priest.

3. Alaafin contributed the common language and also got a senior role as the second son of Oranmiyan.

The story started with Oranmiyan leaving Ife to Benin, he couldn’t stay, but didn't leave until he ensured he left a pregnant Benin princess behind to give birth to Oba Eweka 1. After Oranmiyan ensured his dynasty will continue in Benin, he left for Oyo were he became the Alaafin, he had a second son that carried on as Alaafin. In Oranmiyan's absent from Ife, the Ooni was in charge of the gods and deity as chief priest.

As with all this kind of arrangements, someone is bound to become greedy...in this case the Ooni backed up by western political class such as Awolowo and a result, things fell apart and Benin moved out of the western region.

This revelation is why most yoruba avoid threads like this nowadays, unlike before.

You mentioned how Oyo seems to have got the short end of the stick. It was a gang up of sorts. Some have not forgiven Oyo for its dominance in what is now Yorubaland since 1690s until 1820-30s. They feared rise of another politically imperial Oyo.

Other Yorubas were much more comfortable with Ife/OOni, a priest, with no true evidence of previous imperial power, aside conjecture of ruling far and wide or mythical rulers/deities. If Ife/Oduduwa was such an empire, why is it that thousands of their princes were famous hunters that left to settle in various forests near a stream, junction or where the shot elephant fell and died?

Wait, not so fast. Lagos-Ibadan express people will soon tell us they went to hunt for human beings. That elephant was just a metaphor.

In life when somebody too do wayo, you go wayo yourself.

The only Yoruba nation we respected in Benin was Oyo. At least since 1690s. Over 250 after Benin built an empire in 1440 AD. Respected enough to sign Otun (Northern Ekiti) Treaty with their Aare Ona Kankanfo and Iyase Ekpenede.

Oyo can never get the short end of the stick. They gave their language to Yoruba, their imperial history is solid, Oranmiyan is Yoruba most senior prince, he was King in Oyo before being one in Ife. Late Alaafin Lamidi Adeyemi talked history with confidence. I even watched his old interview on Benin and the British. Quite revealing.

Oba of Lagos is not popular among many Yoruba today because of his clear message of Benin origin. Some are misinterpreting his other messages to say he came from Ife.

AreaFada2:

You mentioned how Oyo seems to have got the short end of the stick. It was a gang up of sorts. Some have not forgiven Oyo for its dominance in what is now Yorubaland since 1690s until 1820-30s. They feared rise of another politically imperial Oyo.

Other Yorubas were much more comfortable with Ife/OOni, a priest, with no true evidence of previous imperial power, aside conjecture of ruling far and wide or mythical rulers/deities. If Ife/Oduduwa was such an empire, why is it that thousands of their princes were famous hunters that left to settle in various forests near a stream, junction or where the shot elephant fell and died?

Wait, not so fast. Lagos-Ibadan express people will soon tell us they went to hunt for human beings. That elephant was just a metaphor.

In life when somebody too do wayo, you go wayo yourself.

The only Yoruba nation we respected in Benin was Oyo. At least since 1690s. Over 250 after Benin built an empire in 1440 AD. Respected enough to sign Otun (Northern Ekiti) Treaty with their Aare Ona Kankanfo and Iyase Ekpenede.

Oyo can never get the short end of the stick. They gave their language to Yoruba, their imperial history is solid, Oranmiyan is Yoruba most senior prince, he was King in Oyo before being one in Ife. Late Alaafin Lamidi Adeyemi talked history with confidence. I even watched his old interview on Benin and the British. Quite revealing.

Oba of Lagos is not popular among many Yoruba today because of his clear message of Benin origin. Some are misinterpreting his other messages to say he came from Ife.

I do agree with you on the language they gave to Yoruba people, but the political arrangement today seems to place more recognition on Ooni than the Alaafin, I believe the Ooni is a joint chairmen of Nigeria traditional council. How many people will remember Oyo empire centuries from now, how many people today even know that it was the Alaafin that the British met and recognised as the king of the yoruba people in 1824.

samuk:


Lamogun was not always the greetings of the oba of Benin, it originally belongs to Igun Street. The Oba bought it from them. Those that migrated from Igun Street in ancient time before Lamogun was appropriated by the Oba would have taken it with them.

OK, thanks.

UGBE634:
Ogie as a word seem to have been limited in Use and practice since the Emergence of Oba in Benin, I am talking about the meaning, the true meaning of the word before the Emergence of Obas.

. In this case, it is talking about the fact that the several kings who go by the name Ogie cannot emerge as Oba (as the Oba, a position which was alien to us and whose meaning we cannot decipher, whose influence we feared. whose might we adore, that is why I refered him as emperor, because we cannot call someone king, whose title we cannot dissect that statement is deep, it is trying to show the dichotomy of the word Oba/Ogie and the conflict between them, it is talking about how one is far bigger than the other in Benin traditional practice. How one seem to have been subdued for another, Ogie-irrioba.

Oba'r'Ogie means Oba is king, Oba as a word is not native, when you understand that, you will be good, but I know comprehension is clearly not your forte


Oba as a word is not native, Oba'nOgie means Oba the king, the Binis referring to him as Ogie is referring him as king in the language they understand

Osaro ne' Enogie is used for description, to describe properly the person you are talking about.

For example- Osaro rhio Okhuo ne

Meaning- Osaro has gotten married o

Someone will now ask, De-Osaro no khin?

Someone will now ask-which Osaro

The reply would be- Osaro ne' Enogie oghe Egbean?

Meaning- Osaro that is the king Over Egbean
Meaning- Osaro that is the king of Egbean

that is why I keep asking, there were some Enogies in Benin before the Emergence of Obas in Benin who were they under


When you answer that question, your ignorance is cured for life

Another lesson for you:

To "gie" means to direct or lead the way. "Ogie" is the person that leads..
Ogieisoba; this means no ruler (Enogies, okaevbo) is above the king
Oba r'Ogie means King is ruler.

Someone like you will say king and ruler means the same thing not knowing that ruler is descriptive while king is actually a title.
Same logic is behind Ogie and Oba

As for the system of governance before the Obas era not much is known, only that there was Ogisos who ruled all of Igodomigodo. If every part of Igodomigodo was independent like you suggest then each part would have had an Ogiso but from what we know there was only one Ogiso for all of Igodomigodo.
This will suggest that all other parts were not independent and were under the Ogiso.

RedboneSmith:


Can I ask you a small question? I was recently speaking with a man from Umoghun n'Okhua, and he said their greeting is Lamogun. I was under the impression that this greeting was exclusive to the Oba's family in Benin.

Are their non-Ọba lineages, especially in Iyekorhionmwon that use Lamogun?

I will get you an answer to your question later