₦airaland Forum

samuk:
The chief that welcomed Obaseki few days ago when he went to commission the street lights from Iyaro to Uniben main gate d[b]id give a brief history of Ugbo-Owo. B[/b]enin is full of history.

AreaFada2:
Any more details about who and what was said? To compare with what I have. Though I can imagine the likely person.

AreaFada2:
Very true. Ewuare, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua and Ehengbuda are the five warrior kings and empire builders.
Our people in Eastern Yorubaland trace their move to these Obas. Especially Ozolua and Esigie.

But Oba Ewedo set the tone for the stability and safety at home (moats/ramparts building commencement), power consolidation and centralisation that a couple of centuries later Ewuare took to the next level.

As for Lamogun, I have had this debate that many in direct Oba dynasty line took the Lamogun greeting, even those relatives not born directly by Ewuare but related paternally. In the same way everybody became Edo after Oba Ewuare's pronouncement.

Most publications do not make a distinction in greeting between pre-Ewuare royals or his direct descendants afterwards. After Lamogun began.

Wow! Oba Ohen's fate was most tragic. With the Iyase saga.

Perhaps, with the roughly a century between Ohen and Ewuare, Ohen descendants may have decided to diverge totally.

Any family history/stories of how the tragic end affected Ohen's direct descendants in the immediate aftermath?

samuk:
The history says Ohen was the father of Ewuare the first, considering the gap between their reigns I have some reservations, can you possibly comment.

samuk:
All Oba before Ewuare 1 greeted Laiso not La Ooni, I know this because I am a descendant of Oba Ohen. My ancestor was a sibling of Oba Ewuare 1 and this fact is clearly reflected in our morning salutation, infact it's the reply we get when we greet an elder. This is one of the reasons why Benin history is difficult to forge. There are too many references to disprove such forgery. La ooni must have been sneaked in to support the Benin Ife connection.

If the royal greeting before Oba Ewuare 1 was La Ooni, then my family would have still be greeting La Ooni but that is not the case. After Oba Ewuare 1 bought Lamogun from Igun Street, all subsequent Oba and their descendants carried on with Lamogun while those descendants of Oba before Ewuare 1 stuck with Laiso, at this point the current family reply was added to the greeting to maintain the family link with Oba Ewuare 1. Those that greet or familiar with Laiso know the reply.

When the current Oba Ewuare 2 was at Uselu going through the Edaiken rituals to become Oba, he requested a chief that represented one of the Laiso families to recount the history of the family before other chiefs, the chief did and Oba agreed that the chief was correct. I got this as a first hand information. I am close to the palace enough to know which of this history is real and those that are political.

There are several branches of Laiso families but all go back to the same ancestor. This is why I advocate for Benin people to do research into their own family history.

Edeyoung:
You greet laiso, since you were young

AreaFada2:
This is where more scholarship is needed. I didn't want to go into it.

Between Ohen and Ewuare were Oba Egbeka, Orobiru and Uwaifiokun. Egbeka and Orobiru reigned for decades, over 30 years each. Ohen's reign ended about 1366 and Ewuare's own began in about 1440. Even if Ewuare was born in 1366 or even posthumously in 1367, he would have been at least 73 years when he became king. And he reigned for over 30 years too. Unlikely. There is no record that Ewuare was an infant or yet unborn to a pregnant queen when Ohen joined his ancestors. The gap may not be exactly up to 100 years but how old was Ewuare when Ohen's reign ended?

In the days without anti-biotics, hardly clean water and high mortality rate, the gap is big.
Ewuare may well have been a grandchild of Ohen.

samuk:
Yes. In the old igiogbe, there are three graves, two are said to be of old chiefs and the last one was my grandmother who died in 1960.

The Ine n' Ibiwe and Adun are said to be other branches of the family. When I met one of Bob Izua's wife in London over a decade ago, she asked my surname, when I told her, she immediately called her husband and said to him one of your brothers is here speak to him, Bob Izua asked the area my father reside, I told him the street and he gave me the description of my dad and asked me if I knew that the person (his wife) I was standing with was my wife.

Yes the family goes way back with other branches within the Ewaise quarter of Benin. A serious researcher on Benin city itself should begin his research by speaking to all the chiefs within the Ogbe-Ewaise quarters.

Edeyoung:
Does the iso stand for sky in the greetings

AreaFada2:
My brother, saying more than I have already said would be like posting my pic and full name.

There are some who know me. But they don't know that I know they know me. I have had some funny responses related to my posts from some people in real life.

Well, I have mentioned before that Benin is a diverse place. I also mentioned that Usen and Utese are not the only so-called "Yoruboid" places. For good reasons,
Some of us are living products of Benin Empire.

In times past, if Benin gained a new territory, through conquest, previously migrated descendants seeking closer ties, and so on, Oba would send ambassadors, a new ruler or some other representative as adequate. If it was conquest, and the ruler killed, the crown prince, especially if only a boy, may be sent to Oba Palace for training. In reality that means indoctrination and
Beninization. There may be Oba rep/ambassador and local chiefs managing that land in the meantime.

If the prince turns out to be a fine young man, fully Beninized, he might bag himself a princess, Oba's daughter, daughter of Oba's brother/sister or daughter of a high ranking Benin nobleman.

He returns to his throne with a Benin princess as his queen. The next generation there might have Benin grandad who may even have been Oba of Benin or still even reigning.

Now the royal ambassador/prince may have had kids in the territory too. If the ambassador was a prince, his kids might return to Benin 50 years later. Where will they go? To the palace. It doesn't matter which Oba is in power by then, the Oba will want to settle his royal relatives because history of their move to the colony is well known.

One way to settle them is to be made a duke somewhere in Benin area, especially if they have returned in dozens or more. Perhaps with wives, in-laws and servants of that other tribe of the colony.

Now, the Beniness and royalty of the returnee is not in doubt, but they have also picked up the other culture (or wives/followers of non-Benin culture) to enrich the already rich Benin culture in their new settlement. They also used their dual culture and privilege in ancient times to trade easily between Benin and swathes of Yorubaland as they could use their links with royal families on both sides.

This is the closest analogy I can give.

If you "waka" enough within Edo, you will be surprised. My visits to Orhionmwon villages as a kid made me to see what I would have not thought was part of Benin culture looking at it from Benin-City.

I have met countless people in Eastern Yorubaland who say their great grandmother or great great grandfather came from Benin but they don't know the compound anymore. Entire towns claim Benin origin. But they don't speak Benin. Though their dialects and culture obviously reflect Benin influence.

Part of Idoani and Ekue-Uhuen are considered Edoid in Ondo State.

samuk:
I agree with the bolded, Oba Ewuare must have been much younger and energetic to be able to achieve all he achieved, unless the dates of reigns of the other oba before him are not as accurate as recorded. It's also possible he was a grandson of Oba Ohen. Before his reign, the throne rotated amongst brothers, Oba Ewuare have to fight Oba Uwaifiokun his junior brother who usurped the throne.

AreaFada2:
Toh! We need to be having history graduates in Benin coming up to seek funding to research these things further.
The time frames before Ewuare's reigns were always going to be estimates at best. Before the Portuguese came.
I see no reason why teams of 4 to 10 diasporans cannot conveniently sponsor a PG student each for 2 to 5 years at Uniben or AAU to research these things. Each thesis or dissertation at the end would be made available openly.

As of today, there is not even a library the size of a 3 bedroom bungalow in Benin dedicated to Benin history that everyone can visit. I stand to be corrected. If I didn't have access to books when growing up, I might not have become interested in Benin history.

Books written are unavailable or out of print. You wonder if those books were even meant to be read. There is one book I have wanted to buy for like 10 years. It is available in one place but na story dey follow am since.

samuk:
From my understanding of the reply/praise, it doesn't seem to stand for sky.

FAMILY UNION OF ISOMOBO OVBIYE EWUARE LINEAGE.

The greeting goes this way: laiso and the reply will be ISOMOBO OVBIYE EWUARE, meaning you are recognised as a descendant of Isomobo, Oba Ewuare's sibling.

I am not sure if the name of Ewuare sibling was a coincidence with the greeting. I was also told Laiso as a greeting was older, but it seems the reply was later modified to remember ISOMOBO's connection with Oba Ewuare 1.

Like AreaFada2 said more scholarship is needed.

I tried not to comment so much on the Ogiso era, I am aware of stories of Esagho and Ahukhor. I can't say if they are myths or not, their stories were very popular in the village.

Oba Ewuare ruling house is listed below as Ogiso Igodo. We are already told that Laiso was the greeting of the Ogiso ruling houses.

Edeyoung:
Meaning the ogiso existed and you belivee in the two dynasty

I want to ask what birthed the Oba dynasty

Edeyoung:
Meaning the ogiso existed and you belivee in the two dynasty

I want to ask what birthed the Oba dynasty

Orhogbua:
Hello Nairalanders my name Tshepo Ajayi i am from Behchuana,My father is NIgerian specifically Bini and Yoruba and My mother from botswana I have always been interested in history in fact I major it in uni and coming from a bini-yoruba background i have a lot of historical heritage from of course these two ethnic groups and my two favourite civilisations are benin and ife and there relationship is something i wish to explore with the knowledge of the nairalanders and of course nigerians in this forum to explore it FULLY

of course these things can get quite tribalistic as i have observed
SO HERE ARE THE RULES

1. NO opinions to be thrown about without proof etc Sources,citations from experts on the subject (but this must also be be sourced) or traditions

2. NO BIGOTRY no bigotry shall be thrown around in this thread no matter how flustered or angry you are KEEP YOUR COMPOSURE yes i am talking about people like TAO11 or gregyboy or davidnazee who attack tribes for a little debate on nairaland

3. If you wish to debunk a statement please use sources and actual proof no emotions or such or stupid opinions

4. Statements are allowed to be made at first but can only be debunked with proof


Now of course i have my opinions with the relationship feel free to debunk with sources NOW these opinions are

1.Ife did not necessarily have a subservient relationship with benin but benin saw ife as a sort of religious site as ife has a strong religious affinity with benin thought benin has many differences in religion with ife

2 I wouldn't go as far to say that Benin was a vassal to ife but ife did have superiority and benin probabaly had ife dominated markets i do believe this ended after the oba ewuare came into power

3 The infamous "Oghene" from portuguese adventures to the itsekiri coast then occupied by benin, my professor (a man versed in african history) doesnt like the way that people use to give validity to kingdoms nearby benin superiority,the information given is iffy at best and details vague, did the portuguese see this process of handing of a brass head and symbols of authority?, or is it a misunderstanding and how did they gather this informatiion,also they never were never at the kings court in benin just near the gates by their description of the place,also where is this transfer in the traditions of benin or ife?

4 No low quality content in the form of none backed sources and of course stupid opinions like benin ruled to "ivory coast!!" and stuff like that

Thebadpolitican:
Ugbe I have told you severally go and read the works of Gregyboy everything you seek for is up there

Are you aware that that edo state was once in the western region if you remember or you read your history books correctly then you shouldn't be asking why some yoruba idols are found in benin

The idol like ogboni was introduced to the edos when we were in the western region politician in the western region had to belong to this confraternity to gain power and influence, again ogboni its an oyo idol not ife another bubble to burst your ife myth before you start thinking your oromiyan shit from ife


2) sango, orunmila ifa were introduced to benin by edo returnees from areas what we now call indo and ekiti today, oba eweka 11 ascended the throne in 1914 after the death of his father oba ovaramwen he begged edo merchants chiefs who had been overseeing and exchanging trades in the west before the Benin invasion that brought down the empire and gave rise to the new country Nigeria. to return home to help him rebuild back the destroyed empire caused by the war
Most of the edo families who returned back brought in this foreign idols, they brought in the yoruba names that will hear today in benin


For the title oba

That is an edo title

Your brain they pain you.... ugbe to even think otherwise if you're not disguising as edo

You're saying the oba should also be having ogie as is title like his fellow Duke is that sensible, even in the British monarchy everyone else who is related to the royalty bears duke(enogie) and only the head bears the title king or queen so are you expecting the oba of benin to also bear the word enogie of benin if so then the oba of benin would be as equal with the rest Duke which we know is not possible ....


It's only the yoruba monarchy that they have their original title and then decided to use a generic title for themselves which is absurd and weird for having two titles this can be explained because the title oba doesn't belong to them it entered their lexicon sometime, and they found it fancy and decided to use it for their titles you don't need me to tell you why they loved the name, of course the oba of benin influence over them before the collapse of empire was prominent

This is the absurdity in yoruba title

Let's take owo as example
General title : Oba
Indigenous title is: olowo of owo
The Duke : baale

The only off thing there is the general title oba which they all decided to be incorporating into their original titles after the ooni of ife in 1930 first adopted the world Oba to his title the rest followed


This is how monarchy are structured around the world

Title : oba of benin
Duke : enogie

British :
Title : King
Chiefs : Duke



You want everyone to spoon feed you one of the reason I believe you're yoruba

SirNewtonNG:
Shut it my friend.

Oba isn't a title, it's a word meaning the one who reigns/rule. O(The one) -Ba(Rules/Reign) the same Ba is reflected in Baale of small towns and Baale(Head of the home).

Omonobanedo is the title of the oba of benin. "Oba of benin" is a recent nomineer and its a british/euroepan thing because the people refer to their king as Oba as Oba is the yoruba word for king which had entered benin lexicon, "of" is an English word and benin is a portuguese corruption of Ubini/Ubinu. Like all Yoruba monarchs their unique titles comes before the town they rule after the common noun or title for kings which is who they are coming just before their names.

For example
Ooni ife, Oba Ogunwusi Ojaja II
Alaafin oyo, Oba Adeyemi III
Omonoba nedo, Oba Ewuare II
Olowo owo, Oba Ogunoye

Link to the official benin dictionary where Oba is clearly shown to be of yoruba origin.. https://archive.org/details/MelzianAConciseDictionaryOfTheBiniLanguageOfSouthernNigeria1937/page/n165/mode/2up

samuk:
Whilst the Ooni and Alaafin were fighting dirty in public, they created what they call ancient burial sites for Oba of Benin in Ife. Oba of Benin is the only one amongst them with such honour. Although the so called burial pit was excavated by the Europeans that were not convinced about the story and found no remain of human bones, which confirmed what they already suspected.

It was because of European suspicious of the story that made them excavated the site. The Europeans have previously documented Benin history for centuries and couldn't find any connection with Ife. They felt their intelligence was being insulted with the Ife fairytale and they investigated and found no connection between Benin and Ife that can be backed up by history.

You can see that Ife and Oyo doesn’t even speak the same language according to the Alaafin in that article you posted. The common language thing was Oyo's contribution to the western region unification arrangement I talked about earlier.

Whenever Dr Egharevba is quoted in Benin, the Benin nobles usually laugh at the person's ignorance. You can Google the Esogban's reply to the late Ooni when the Ooni quoted Dr Egharevba during the public disagreement on Benin/Ife connection between late oba Erediawa and late Ooni.

If not for the fact that Awolowo introduced tribalism and the yoruba are over zealous plus the need to preserve Benin authentic history, there would have been no need to reveal the Ife fairytale.

1. The oba of Benin contributed his centuries old history and got back a very senior role being the chosen heir to Oranmiyan and Oduduwa. The Oba of Benin also got special ancient burial site created for his ancestors, he his the only one amongst them to have such in Ife.

2. Ooni contributed Ife as the centre of migration of everyone and got a lesser role of chief priest.

3. Alaafin contributed the common language and also got a senior role as the second son of Oranmiyan.

The story started with Oranmiyan leaving Ife to Benin, he couldn’t stay, but didn't leave until he ensured he left a pregnant Benin princess behind to give birth to Oba Eweka 1. After Oranmiyan ensured his dynasty will continue in Benin, he left for Oyo were he became the Alaafin, he had a second son that carried on as Alaafin. In Oranmiyan's absent from Ife, the Ooni was in charge of the gods and deity as chief priest.

As with all this kind of arrangements, someone is bound to become greedy...in this case the Ooni backed up by western political class such as Awolowo and a result, things fell apart and Benin moved out of the western region.

This revelation is why most yoruba avoid threads like this nowadays, unlike before.

Thebadpolitican:
For example
Ooni ife, Oba sir Ogunwusi Ojaja II
Alaafin oyo, Oba sir Adeyemi III
Omonoba nedo, Oba Ewuare II
Olowo owo, Oba sir Ogunoye

This was how it was before 1930 when the then ooni adopted oba in replacement to sir...

It is omo n' oba of benin > in benin omo n'oba nedo ( this is the actual short form of the benin title)

The English version is OBA of benin king ovaramen

Monarchies and corresponding title of monarch:

1)Rome: Cesar
2) Germany: Kaiser
3) England: king
4) Ottoman: sultan
5) France : roi
6) Russia: Tsar
7) Benin empire: Oba
8 ) Oyo: alafin
9) Persia: shah
10) Egba: alake

Notice an early captioned picture of the Oni of ife: no mention of the word "Oba" when referring to him, in his even earlier pictures, there is rather a mention of the word "sir" in place of where the "yorubas" put the word "oba" today. The troll who precedes me knows all this since I have already given (in the troll's presence) several pages of proof of the fact that the first yoruba monarch to use the word Oba to describe himself is adoseji aderemi who started his ooniship without any association with the word Oba, and his predecessor was never referred to as "oba" in his appellation. When you ignore logic, you automatically become a fool and a fool deserves no reply.

Biodun556:
The Governor, Sir Adesoji Aderemi doubling as the ooni of Ife was also a Christian in the old western region.

Aguiyi Ironsi and deputy, Babafemi Ogundipe were christians.

johntolu:
Lest I forget, I am also an apologetic Yoruba tribalist in the mould of Chief Obafemi Awolowo and Sir Adesoji Aderemi, both of Blessed Memories.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_odAy4rVz8

iamrealdeji:
Ooni Sir Adesoji Aderemi,the former governor of western region and a former minister in Nigeria and the greatest king Ofe ever had was a very close friend of Awolowo.

Notice there were some transitions in colonial era yoruba adopting the word "Oba":

1) oni of ife, adesoji aderemi
2) Oni of ife, sir adesoji aderemi
3) oba Oni of ife, adesoji aderemi
4) Oni of ife, oba sir aderemi
5) Oni of ife, oba adesoji aderemi (final form)

And that is how the word "Oba" was adopted by the Oni of ife, not so long ago.

The word remains the title of the emperor of Benin. As a polite and sophisticated person, I pay tribute to those from whom I borrow anything, but it seems the yorubas have an other kind of manners.

1) oduduwa, orammiyan, ogiso are made up stories, they never existed ! They are myths. You really know nothing about history.

2) the word "Oba" is the title of the king of Benin, just like the word "king" is the title of the overall ruler of England ! People like you confuse present and past and myth and reality.

3)Yoruba as we have it today is a recent creation which regroups several ethnic groups: freed slaves, and some kingdoms or chiefdoms of the southwest. Each one of those kingdoms had their own title which is also their word for king: in ife, it is Oni, in oyo, it is alafin...
The title Oba was copied by the yoruba around the 1930's as a replacement for the word "sir":

4)Indeed, yoruba monarchs used to be referred to as: "ooni of Ife, sir adesoji aderemi". Then they made an other adjustment later on in the colonial era and replace the English word "sir" with the Benin title of the king of Kings "Oba" and it became: "ooni of Ife, oba adesoji aderemi"

5)I don't know about "Ogun", so I can't say, although I know Ekiti was part of Benin when the British invaded in 1897.

naijalander:
Oba Sir Adesoji Tadeniawo Aderemi, Oni of Ife in 1959

- reigned September 1930 - July 1980

© Elisofon, Eliot - Smithsonian Institution

SirNewtonNG:
Removing Oba and putting sir is the funniest and corniest thing ever. When did "Sir" become a yoruba word . You'll go to any length you miserable inferiority complex individuals to revise things to suit your battered ego. Oba is who they are. That's the word for kings. That's why Oba goes before their names.

You're talking trash omonoba nedo and Oba of benin means the same thing. "Oba of benin" is the English iteration like i said, i don't understand what you're trying to do, once again a bini when he can't counter will make things up and hope it sticks. Even officially today it's Omonobanedo, Oba Ewuare 2 Oba is not a short form for omonoba nedo. Oba is a stand alone word and meaning eni ti O ba(the one who reigns) however the word can be used to maker larger words like Omonobanedo meaning " the child the king of edo" and usually used as a prefix or even suffix as wellit's like omo, omo is a word of its one usually a prefix that can be used to make other larger words.

The benin dictionary contribute by benin elders makes it clear the word Oba is of Yoruba etymological origin meaning it can only be broken down in yoruba language.

There's also many evidences of yoruba kings being referred to as Oba for as long as possible which is literally the Yoruba language equivalent of King in English. If you're bold i dare you to ask me