TenQ:

There is no early writing material that can exist indefinitely what everyone uses (including the Qur'an or Bible) is COPIES of Copies.



All along, I've only asked you for the evidence of COPIES from the Qur'an of Abu Bakr or the Qur'an of Uthman.
Why use the RECITATION of Hafs if they exist?

TenQ:



The proof:
Why did Uthman burnt all other Qur'an other than his if they were perfect?

honesttalk21:
Why did Uthman burnt all?

How many times must you be told that he wanted unification of recitation in one dialect of Qureysh?

Now didn't the other forms of recitation still exist beyond this? How come he didn't burn these?

TenQ:

There is no early writing material that can exist indefinitely what everyone uses (including the Qur'an or Bible) is COPIES of Copies.


All along, I've only asked you for the evidence of COPIES from the Qur'an of Abu Bakr or the Qur'an of Uthman.
Why use the RECITATION of Hafs if they exist?

honesttalk21:
You and your league should be able to find something unless.....

TenQ:


... Unless some people are destroying or withholding evidence so as to be able to deceive others with their preferred Narrative!

Please I beg you, ask God the Creator to expose to you the reason for the Messiah.
If you ask sincerely, He will answer you.

honesttalk21:
I have provided you with information as close as 23 years to prophet Muhammad's passing.

Can you get as close to your Jesus?

You pull a different line but if I may have you sincerely asked God this yourself and about Muhammad pbuh too?

honesttalk21:
Do I smell frustration that you cannot get a bible copy close to the presumed crucifixion of Jesus?

honesttalk21:
See this Tubingen manuscript taken from Syria carbon dated with 94.5% accuracy to between 649-675CE. It is the Hijaji script.

This consists of text of the Qur'an from 17:35 to 36:57. About 26.2% of the total text of the Qur'an.

TenQ:

Sorry what information as close as 23 years!? You Muslims that deny the hadiths of your prophet!? The Qur'an of Abu Bakr and the Qur'an of Uthman should have done that but it looks like just as Uthman burnt the other Quran's except his version, you have done away with both the version of Abu Bakr and Uthman for a RECITATION (150 years) after. Your hadiths attests to these changes.

My friend, please let's end this talk here. I wish you a good night rest and a blissful eternity.

I commend you to the hands of the Messiah!

Interestingly, I don't even have to provide you any evidence of Christ Jesus. Your Quran does that for me!

Are you saying that Jesus didn't exist?

honesttalk21:
No early writing material?
You know physically recording information began as early as 8000 BCE?

The Gilgamesh was written in cuneiform script in 2100BC, the world's oldest known form of writing yet you cannot find anything of the Bible written in the early AC? You must be a big joke.

Is it only Hafs recitation that is in use? I have told you it is the qira'a of 'Asim, used in Kufa.

Also if your claim on Hafs is that strong, how come we have?

Hadith Narrated By Hafs bin Asim
In Sahih Bukhari

Narrated: Hafs bin Asim From Sahih Bukhari
Hadith No: 205
Narrated/Authority of Hafs bin Asim
Ibn 'Umar went on a journey and said, "I accompanied the Prophet and he did not offer optional prayers during the journey, and Allah says: 'Verily! In Allah's Apostle you have a good example to follow.' " (33.21)



The ones found and dated are unreal?

honesttalk21:
Your proof is a question?

Be real and serious!

honesttalk21:
Why did Uthman burnt all?

honesttalk21:
Why did Uthman burnt all?

How many times must you be told that he wanted unification of recitation in one dialect of Qureysh?

Now didn't the other forms of recitation still exist beyond this? How come he didn't burn these?

honesttalk21:
Of course we can end your statement without proof as you don't have anything real.

P.S Israelites had documented writing, kindly provide that of the bible.

The most ancient piece of writing found in Jerusalem was a tablet unearthed in the Shiloah water in the City of David, dating back to the eighth century BCE.

honesttalk21:
You and your league should be able to find something unless.....

honesttalk21:
I have provided you with information as close as 23 years to prophet Muhammad's passing.

Can you get as close to your Jesus?

You pull a different line but if I may have you sincerely asked God this yourself and about Muhammad pbuh too?

TenQ:

Unless the Qur'an is False!
LOL!

Did Allah not Authenticate the Books of we Christians and Jews?

TenQ:

If Allah recited the Qur'an in 7 different Arabic dialects, do you think Uthman have the right to eliminate six of them?
Is Uthman also a prophet of Islam?


If he didn't burn every Qur'an in existence, it could mean that
1. The Islamic Narrative is a LIE
2. Uthman failed in his bid the destroy all variant Qur'an

TenQ:

Unfortunately for you, if the Torah is false, then the Qur'an is false.

On what material was the Torah written on: clay or skin or papyrus ? What is the life'span of these materials?

The Qur'an is at best 1300 years old
The New testament is at least 2000 years old and the
Old Testament is at least 2800 years old.

Your best bet is first show us documents on the same kind of manuscript that is that old in the world.

I am sure you've never heard of the Dead sea scrolls. They are about 2100 years old.

honesttalk21:
Historical records show that, just as Jesus and the New Testament writers foretold, various heretical ideas and teachers rose up from within the early Church and infiltrated it from without.

Christ Himself warned His followers: "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name . . . and will deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5).

You can read many similar warnings in other passages (such as Matthew 24:11; Acts 20:29-30; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; 2 Timothy 4:2-4; 2 Peter 2:1-2; 1 John 2:18-26; 1 John 4:1-3).




One of the main concerns about the Dead Sea Scolls raised by scholars is the issue of forgery, as some experts believe that modern individuals may have created or altered some of the scrolls to deceive researchers and collectors.

This skepticism has prompted scientists to closely examine the material composition, writing styles, and paleographic features of the scrolls to determine their authenticity, leading to a complex and ongoing debate.

One of the widely accepted outcomes of more than seven decades of Dead Sea Scrolls research is that the world of Qumran is one that was formative to scripture yet from a time before the media forms, cultural catalysts, and confessional efforts that finalized the canons of Judaism and Christianity.

The challenge now is discerning how to move beyond the truism that “the Bible did not yet exist” toward models for mapping the development of emerging traditions regardless of their place within or outside of later biblical collections.

honesttalk21:
Fortunately copies of the different styles are available and archaeological discoveries are consistent in meaning with the Mushafs presently used. This is true despite the evolution in writing alphabets etc.

TenQ:

It doesn't dawn on you that
1. Islam is a replacement of Jesus with Mohammed!?
Is this not what Jesus was teaching?

Did Mohammed not preach saying Jesus was a prophet?

2. If the Dead sea scroll is a forgery, then Islam is based on forgery. As Allah subscribed to the same book.

Either way, Islam is the Religion of the Antichrist (Replacement for Christ)

TenQ:

You don't understand the gravity of the problem

If Allah recited the Qur'an in 7 different Arabic dialects, do you think Uthman have the right to eliminate six of them?
Is Uthman also a prophet of Islam?

AND
If he didn't burn every Qur'an in existence, it could mean that
1. The Islamic Narrative is a LIE
2. Uthman failed in his bid the destroy all variant Qur'an

honesttalk21:
1. Why? Equivalents should be compared though Jesus didn't name a religion but says he came to fulfil the law according to Moses.
I may be wrong to infer Islam replacing Christianity.
What was the way of life of Abraham?

Is Jesus a replacement for Moses?
Allah sends guidance to mankind since the decent of Adam pbuh from the garden.
Q2:38 ...... فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُم مِّنِّى هُدًۭى فَمَن تَبِعَ هُدَاىَ فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
So if guidance comes to you from me, then whoever follows my guidance, there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.

Yes Muhammad preaches that Jesus (pbut) is a prophet. He didn't say of himself that he was more than a Prophet or did he?
إِنَّمَا ٱلۡمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ٱبۡنُ مَرۡيَمَ رَسُولُ ٱللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُۥٓ أَلۡقَىٰهَآ إِلَىٰ مَرۡيَمَ وَرُوحٞ مِّنۡهُ ۖ فَئَامِنُواْ بِٱللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِۦ ۖ
The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit from Him, so believe in Him. Allah and His Messengers
بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَإِذَا قَضَى أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ
The Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decides to create something, He merely says, “Be!” and It becomes what He willed

2. No! That premise is incorrect. I shared what research has revealed on the findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Allah makes no mention of it in what he revealed through the last prophet pbuh

3. As always you bring in other arguments to your discussion. Enumerate and elucidate how Islam is the religion of the Antichrist.

Why do you feel one should replace the other?

honesttalk21:
How Can you burn sound or a recitation? Were memories also burned? These arguments should be honestly considered.
And on your second question which seems to agree that the other Mushafs are consistent in meaning does it then imply the crucial points of your argument lie in the disagreements on the son status and crucifixion of Jesus? I see these as the more probable core of disagreements.

Uthman's success or failure is most valuable to your bid to discredit the Quran.