😭😭😭

Leyqute:
😭😭😭

The guy na eshin makanaki. If I get supporter like that for this life, impossible is nothing.

afrodoc2:


If Ronaldo no send you Christmas hamper we go protest. Isheloshe
🤣🤣🤣

Which of the Ronaldo?

Na forlan be my idolo

Erik TenHalf..


See wetin you turn Man utd too😩😵‍💫

'I can't play like Ajax because I have diffferent players.' 🗯️

Erik ten Hag explains his philosophy and style of play at Manchester United 🔴🧬

odizeey:


Again, conveniently leaving out WC exploits.

I no argue again.

Wc exploit is the basis na.

Anyways, you just no wan gree say R9 winning world best with Europa is not in a WC year.

Jodera:
Wc exploit is the basis na.

Anyways, you just no wan gree say R9 winning world best with Europa is not in a WC year.

Now club achievements don't matter.

But it mattered when Forlan was exceptional in the WC.

Talking like Forlan scored 10 goals that season

Here wo go.......Jassim take over rumor again. LOL! They want fans to get small hope in the club again.

odizeey:


Now club achievements don't matter.

But it mattered when Forlan was exceptional in the WC.

Talking like Forlan scored 10 goals that season

Forlan didn't win the world cup
Forlan didn't win his league
Forlan didn't win UCL

The only thing Forlan did was
Best player in world cup
Then Europa (which isn't weighty).



My basis has always been world cup year and club achievement.

Messi won best player in 2014 World cup, yet didn't win world best

Messi Won same best player in 2022 world cup, then won world best.

What do you think is the difference?

So, City has always wanted to buy Kobbie Mainoo.

Hmm.

ETH has to leave and the sooner he does the better for the club. What good coach would let a defender like Eric Bailey leave when all you have are misfits from Maguire to Evans to Lindelof.

Indeed a fit Bailey is always better than all of Utds center backs including Varane and Martinez.

So why let him go like he didn't matter? Same thing he did to De Gea.

#ETHout

Jodera:

Forlan didn't win the world cup
Forlan didn't win his league
Forlan didn't win UCL

The only thing Forlan did was
Best player in world cup
Then Europa (which isn't weighty).



My basis has always been world cup year and club achievement.

Messi won best player in 2014 World cup, yet didn't win world best

Messi Won same best player in 2022 world cup, then won world best.

What do you think is the difference?

What was Messi's club achievement in 2014?

My only work is to stop you from downplaying the Uefa cup because a past winner of the award has won the tournament in the same season he won it.

You asked for club achievement, you got it.

No escape anywhere bro. You can't erase that Uefa cup.

raumdeuter:


If they spent BHA type money in the transfer market then they should be content with BHA type results

You cannot spend 10times what Brighton did and be okay with Brightons result

DeZerbi joined Brighton after TenHag

What does salvageable looks like? Winning the CL? Semi finals, Winning the league top 2-3? Top 4 or top 10? when you now compare to other coaches with similar budget. Now think that a coach who has spent 2yrs ends up with these "salvaged result" Is it tenable to the board who have splashed so much on him and will that give confidence to give him another 200-300M for next season

DeZerbi did not finish 3rd with a cup. Nobody expected United to finish that high in the league whether they admit it or not so in a sense ETH overachieved. To me, that should be the reason he should be given more time. That assurance could allow him to be discipline about the style he wants to play. It is clear he is overwhelmed and thus making mistakes. I don't even think his players are downtooling. They too are confused.

Salvageable for United will be making top 4 and going far (SFs in the FA Cup atleast) and probably a QF in the UCL.

raumdeuter:


Real Madrid is still one of the most coveted jobs in football, When you succeed at a club of the stature of Madrid you get acclaims like no where else

Conte and Flick where are they now? Klopp is probably scared of going to a club so demanding that you must win every season, you must win in style, you must win by using specific players the management want. Klopp deliberately avoids high pressure environment.
Coaches have turned down Madrid in the past it was rumored that Wenger at his peak also turned them down because of the same Klopp reason, He cannot thrive in a high pressure and regulated environment where you dont get a free hand

Most coaches hired by a top club have shown either success or potential to be successful

Seems you are conflating RMs status as a big club with top managers desiring to go there. RM is still a massive club but being the coach of that team is no longer the top 2 most desirable jobs in soccer like it used to be. Real Madrid, Barcelona and United used to occupy the top 3 jobs. Every manager wanted to do so well that RM, Barca or United would hire them. It is not the case any more.

And while I can understand your arguments about Klopp in relation to RM, the reality is, it is not a stable environment and as such, him and Pep (or anyone else you regard as top tier) do not crave that job. They don't even think it will elevate them.

Of course, that does not mean nobody will coach there. Even Yeovil Town FC can hire a manager. The question is if the top managers see it as the upper echelon of football coaching like it used to be. The answer is a resounding no and it is not because they won't pay you a good salary or offer you the trappings of working for a multinational organization. It is because the job/environment is unstable and top managers fear they won't be given enough time to implement their ideas.

raumdeuter:


Tuchel though not performing to standard expected of Bayern is still getting his own benefit of doubt, cos he won the league last season regardless of the circumstance, he has won all his CL games and he will get his courtesy 1 yr , even Kovac without the pedigree of Tuchel got over 1yr, to try to steady his ship before the hammer came

Low got that much time because he had a track record of success with Germany. With Low, Germany made semi in 2008, semi in 2010, semi in 2012, World cup winner in 2014, semi in 2016. These success afforded him the benefit of doubt in 2018 and 2020

Alonso will either go to Madrid or Bayern regardless of how they have treated their coaches in the past because he knows those are the pinnacle of football. Or you think he will rather stay in Leverkusen?

Alonso will go there based on avails surely however if he is offered to replace Pep in City or Tuchel in Bayern (Carlo in RM) which job do you think he will jump at?

Android17:
DeZerbi did not finish 3rd with a cup. Nobody expected United to finish that high in the league whether they admit it or not so in a sense ETH overachieved. To me, that should be the reason he should be given more time. That assurance could allow him to be discipline about the style he wants to play. It is clear he is overwhelmed and thus making mistakes. I don't even think his players are downtooling. They too are confused.

Salvageable for United will be making top 4 and going far (SFs in the FA Cup atleast) and probably a QF in the UCL.

What will be the expectations for Man Utd one of the top 3 spenders in the league last season. De Zerbi did not spend as much as Ten Hag he didnt even spend half of ten Hag. Did De Zerbi even have a proper pre season with the Brighton squad?
Man Utd also did not lose key performers like Cucurela, Trossard Bissouma Maupay MacAlister, Sanchez, Caicedo.

So while Man Utd was spending millions and keeping their best players, Brighton was spending significantly less and losing their best players.

If you say 3rd is an overachievement for Man Utd who is the 2nd highest spender last season, what will be their expected finish that will be in line with their expenditure

Android17:
Alonso will go there based on avails surely however if he is offered to replace Pep in City or Tuchel in Bayern (Carlo in RM) which job do you think he will jump at?

Can you list 5 jobs in Europe that Alonso will pick over RM or Bayern if offered to pick anywhere he likes

Android17:
Seems you are conflating RMs status as a big club with top managers desiring to go there. RM is still a massive club but being the coach of that team is no longer the top 2 most desirable jobs in soccer like it used to be. Real Madrid, Barcelona and United used to occupy the top 3 jobs. Every manager wanted to do so well that RM, Barca or United would hire them. It is not the case any more.

And while I can understand your arguments about Klopp in relation to RM, the reality is, it is not a stable environment and as such, him and Pep (or anyone else you regard as top tier) do not crave that job. They don't even think it will elevate them.

Of course, that does not mean nobody will coach there. Even Yeovil Town FC can hire a manager. The question is if the top managers see it as the upper echelon of football coaching like it used to be. The answer is a resounding no and it is not because they won't pay you a good salary or offer you the trappings of working for a multinational organization. It is because the job/environment is unstable and top managers fear they won't be given enough time to implement their ideas.

Who are the in demand managers that will turn down Real Madrid at this point? Pep obviously wont coach Madrid because of his Barcelona links, Klopp does not coach in high pressure Environment, he wants underachievng clubs where the expectations are very low so any thing is a big achievement and he would be celebrated

So who are these top coaches who will turn down Madrid? By summer a coach like Alonso will have his pick of clubs who are the 5 clubs he would pick ahead of Madrid in the whole of Europe

Tuchel was one of this in demand managers 12months ago and he picked Bayern. Bayern decision to go early for him was based on rumors that Carlo might be leaving Madrid and Tuchel this in demand manager will be headed there

So I ask again who are the in demand managers that will turn down Bayern or Madrid

raumdeuter:


What will be the expectations for Man Utd one of the top 3 spenders in the league last season. De Zerbi did not spend as much as Ten Hag he didnt even spend half of ten Hag. Did De Zerbi even have a proper pre season with the Brighton squad?
Man Utd also did not lose key performers like Cucurela, Trossard Bissouma Maupay MacAlister, Sanchez, Caicedo.

So while Man Utd was spending millions and keeping their best players, Brighton was spending significantly less and losing their best players.

If you say 3rd is an overachievement for Man Utd who is the 2nd highest spender last season, what will be their expected finish that will be in line with their expenditure

The expectations for United will be to compete for league titles and possibly win it in a 3-5 year window. Return on investment is always time based. DeZerbi is not required to win anything in the next 7 years which is why he can focus on playing fancy football.

3rd being an overachievement for United is couched by their previous season's performance before ETH. And it was an overachievement because bookies like pundits predicted City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Newcastle ahead of United at the start of the season. The Newcastle vs United is arguable but it was still outside of top 4 so ETH superseding that should count in his favor.

raumdeuter:


Can you list 5 jobs in Europe that Alonso will pick over RM or Bayern if offered to pick anywhere he likes

I did not say there are 5 jobs in Europe Alonso will pick over RM and Bayern. I said if given a chance to select between RM, Bayern and City, Alonso, Xavi, DeZerbi or any other manager that people see as borderline elite will gravitate towards City.

Android17:
I did not say there are 5 jobs in Europe Alonso will pick over RM and Bayern. I said if given a chance to select between RM, Bayern and City, Alonso, Xavi, DeZerbi or any other manager that people see as borderline elite will gravitate towards City.

So there are not 5 jobs in Europe that they will be picked over Madrid. So you are saying there is one job out of 100 in Europe that Alonso Xavi and DeZerbi will pick over Madrid and Bayern?

What has changed from 20yrs ago when the likes of Wenger also rejected Madrid for the stability of Arsenal

raumdeuter:


Who are the in demand managers that will turn down Real Madrid at this point? Pep obviously wont coach Madrid because of his Barcelona links, Klopp does not coach in high pressure Environment, he wants underachievng clubs where the expectations are very low so any thing is a big achievement and he would be celebrated

So who are these top coaches who will turn down Madrid? By summer a coach like Alonso will have his pick of clubs who are the 5 clubs he would pick ahead of Madrid in the whole of Europe

Tuchel was one of this in demand managers 12months ago and he picked Bayern. Bayern decision to go early for him was based on rumors that Carlo might be leaving Madrid and Tuchel this in demand manager will be headed there

So I ask again who are the in demand managers that will turn down Bayern or Madrid

It is not about turning down RM. Anyone can accept to be president of Benin Republic if that is the only option. A good comparison will be to ask for those who will be willing to take it over being the president of South Africa for e.g. Not many if any will be the answer. Zidane left the RM job to remain jobless whilst basically waiting for France.

By the way, Tuchel and RM was after he won the UCL with CFC. Following his being fired by CFC, it was Tottenham and Bayern that courted him. He selected the better of the 2 options.

raumdeuter:


So there are not 5 jobs in Europe that they will be picked over Madrid. So you are saying there is one job out of 100 in Europe that Alonso Xavi and DeZerbi will pick over Madrid and Bayern?

What has changed from 20yrs ago when the likes of Wenger also rejected Madrid for the stability of Arsenal

Many other factors go into selecting a job. I am just ignoring them to limit the scope of the conversation. I could have mentioned Liverpool and even Newcastle as top destinations because the EPL is now more superior to La Liga, Italy, Germany so even if a coach might prefer the Inter Milan job, he will also know that financially and visibility wise, that job may be constraining.

Thus, the conversation should be about the coaching environment. How volatile it is, support from leadership/ownership, patience during the bad times etc. Lopetegui and Benitez will tell you they regretted going to RM.

Android17:
It is not about turning down RM. Anyone can accept to be president of Benin Republic if that is the only option. A good comparison will be to ask for those who will be willing to take it over being the president of South Africa for e.g. Not many if any will be the answer. Zidane left the RM job to remain jobless whilst basically waiting for France.

By the way, Tuchel and RM was after he won the UCL with CFC. Following his being fired by CFC, it was Tottenham and Bayern that courted him. He selected the better of the 2 options.

I asked if all the 100 jobs in Europe were open mention 5 that a top manager will pick above Madrid, you only mentioned City. So to you, Only one job is more desirable.

Actually Madrid was in the run for Tuchel based on reports in March this year which was why Bayern had to move faster

https://www.football-espana.net/2023/03/25/thomas-tuchel-was-making-plans-to-be-real-madrid-head-coach-before-bayern-munich-move
https://onefootball.com/en/news/bayern-munich-set-to-appoint-real-madrid-target-as-new-manager-after-nagelsmann-sacking-37033652
https://thehardtackle.com/news/2023/03/16/real-madrid-considering-thomas-tuchel-swoop/
https://therealchamps.com/2023/03/24/real-madrid-thomas-tuchel-blow/

raumdeuter:

I asked if all the 100 jobs in Europe were open mention 5 that a top manager will pick above Madrid, you only mentioned City. So to you, Only one job is more desirable.

Actually Madrid was in the run for Tuchel based on reports in March this year which was why Bayern had to move faster

https://www.football-espana.net/2023/03/25/thomas-tuchel-was-making-plans-to-be-real-madrid-head-coach-before-bayern-munich-move
https://onefootball.com/en/news/bayern-munich-set-to-appoint-real-madrid-target-as-new-manager-after-nagelsmann-sacking-37033652
https://thehardtackle.com/news/2023/03/16/real-madrid-considering-thomas-tuchel-swoop/
https://therealchamps.com/2023/03/24/real-madrid-thomas-tuchel-blow/

You are still making the same argument. Tuchel was going to take the job compared to Tottenham- the only other team at the time interested in his services. Your links show he was waiting for the summer. If RM was that coveted job it used to be, he could have waited and ignored Bayern right? He did not. He went with the better of the 2 options.

Android17:
Many other factors go into selecting a job. I am just ignoring them to limit the scope of the conversation. I could have mentioned Liverpool and even Newcastle as top destinations because the EPL is now more superior to La Liga, Italy, Germany so even if a coach might prefer the Inter Milan job, he will also know that financially and visibility wise, that job may be constraining.

Thus, the conversation should be about the coaching environment. How volatile it is, support from leadership/ownership, patience during the bad times etc. Lopetegui and Benitez will tell you they regretted going to RM.

You think a coach will pick Newcastle job over Real Madrid?

Coaches dont care about the volatility, the best coaches still rush to Madrid Bayern PSG Chelsea and those volatile jobs because they get the most exposure

Poch Carlo, Mourinho Pep Naggelsman are the coaches who at their peaks went to these clubs despite their volatility.

Benitez went to Real Madrid from Napoli. So you think any Napoli coach will turn down Madrid. Not every coach can cope with the demand of a top club which is why Klopp stays away just like not all players an cope with it. For every Hazard that failed, there is a Bellingham whose profile is massively catapulted by joining a top club. If Bellingham was doing these numbers at Dortmund, very few will care, same thing if those coaches were doing it at tier 2 clubs, very few will care until he proves himself at a top club

Madrid job was the one that elevated Zidane, that was actually his only job in management and that makes many people consider him a top coach despite not coaching for over 3yrs, if he did it at a smaller club there will still be people who will doubt if he can translate it into a big club

Android17:
You are still making the same argument. Tuchel was going to take the job compared to Tottenham- the only other team at the time interested in his services. Your links show he was waiting for the summer. If RM was that coveted job it used to be, he could have waited and ignored Bayern right? He did not. He went with the better of the 2 options.

He had 2 of Europe top jobs to pick from Bayern and Madrid. One was ready right now and one was "wait till summer". He picked one of the top jobs which shows these clubs despite hiring and firing are still the top destination

A coach has a limited shelf life and he has to get a job quickly and be relevant otherwise he is quickly forgotten

raumdeuter:


You think a coach will pick Newcastle job over Real Madrid?

Coaches dont care about the volatility, the best coaches still rush to Madrid Bayern PSG Chelsea and those volatile jobs because they get the most exposure

Poch Carlo, Mourinho Pep Naggelsman are the coaches who at their peaks went to these clubs despite their volatility.

Benitez went to Real Madrid from Napoli. So you think any Napoli coach will turn down Madrid. Not every coach can cope with the demand of a top club which is why Klopp stays away just like not all players an cope with it. For every Hazard that failed, there is a Bellingham whose profile is massively catapulted by joining a top club

Madrid job was the one that elevated Zidane, that was actually his only job in management and that makes many people consider him a top coach despite not coaching for over 3yrs, if he did it at a smaller club there will still be people who will doubt if he can translate it into a big club

You are still mixing up RM the club with RM the coaching job. They are not the same. Real Madrid is a bigger club than City but which of them will a top coach want to coach today? That is the discussion. The emphasis is on "today" not in history and the job of coach not the popularity of the club.

At the time that Mou and what not were headed to such jobs they were the most coveted jobs ---> at the time. But the leadership started getting impatient because they knew they had a retinue of top coaches waiting on standby. Is that the case today? Carlo Ancelotti who was to be relieved at the end of the season is still there because?

Of course the RM job elevated Zidane because he won multiple UCL titles whilst there. They begged him to come back but he refused, why so? Why is he waiting for the France job if a more coveted job is asking for him? Maybe he knows that job is not the big deal it used to be before.

Android17:
You are still mixing up RM the club with RM the coaching job. They are not the same. Real Madrid is a bigger club than City but which of them will a top coach want to coach today? That is the discussion. The emphasis is on "today" not in history and the job of coach not the popularity of the club.

At the time that Mou and what not were headed to such jobs they were the most coveted jobs ---> at the time. But the leadership started getting impatient because they knew they had a retinue of top coaches waiting on standby. Is that the case today? Carlo Ancelotti who was to be relieved at the end of the season is still there because?

Of course the RM job elevated Zidane because he won multiple UCL titles whilst there. They begged him to come back but he refused, why so? Why is he waiting for the France job if a more coveted job is asking for him? Maybe he knows that job is not the big deal it used to be before.

What makes Madrid job the most coveted in 2010 when Mou joined despite being notorious for hiring and firing and not coveted in 2020 when they are doing the same

raumdeuter:


He had 2 of Europe top jobs to pick from Bayern and Madrid. One was ready right now and one was "wait till summer". He picked one of the top jobs which shows these clubs despite hiring and firing are still the top destination

A coach has a limited shelf life and he has to get a job quickly and be relevant otherwise he is quickly forgotten

No, your premise and conclusion are at variance. Tuchel had RM, Bayern and Tottenham to select from. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man will be king. He selected from the options he had. This example would have made sense if he turned down the jobs I said are more coveted to take any of the options you listed. He did not.

Android17:
No, your premise and conclusion are at variance. Tuchel had RM, Bayern and Tottenham to select from. In the land of the blind the one-eyed man will be king. He selected from the options he had. This example would have made sense if he turned down the jobs I said are more coveted to take any of the options you listed. He did not.

And which are these 2-eyed jobs you think are more coveted than Madrid and Bayern? Newcastle? I wont even start arguing that.

You mean a coach will pick Newcastle over Bayern and Madrid. Okay then

raumdeuter:


What makes Madrid job the most coveted in 2010 when Mou joined despite being notorious for hiring and firing and not coveted in 2020 when they are doing the same

Because at the time Barcelona was the best club in the world so their country rivals (RM) presented an option to the man they felt was the other elite coach in the world that could wrestle that title from Barca. Mourinho was promised a stable job. That is why he was not fired after his first season like Pellegrini even though the latter won more games and had more points in his first season compared to Mourinho.