Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,151,582 members, 7,812,903 topics. Date: Monday, 29 April 2024 at 09:50 PM

Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts (356 Views)

Ministry To Jws, Part 9 - Christ's Presence / Ministry To Jws, Part 2 - The 1914 Theology / GB To Jws ~ Avoid Unnecessary Arguments With Apostates. (2) (3) (4)

(1) (Reply) (Go Down)

Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Sand2022: 5:41pm On Jan 21
Jehovah's witnesses subscribe to cessationism. A theology that believes that spiritual gifts ceased in the first century.

Jehovah's witness hierarchy doesn't know for sure when the gift ceased. They deductively assume it ended in the first century. One of there books said:

"The gifts of the holy spirit were generally passed on to other Christians in the presence of the apostles, usually by the apostles placing their hands on fellow believers. (Acts 8:​18; 10:44-​46) It appears that those who received the gifts of the spirit from the apostles did not transfer them to others. (Acts 8:​5-7, 14-​17) To illustrate, a government official may issue a driver’s license to someone, but that person is not given the legal authority to issue a license to anyone else. Apparently, speaking in tongues ended with the death of the apostles and those who had personally received the gift from them."

The JW Governing Body do not believe that 1cor 13:8-11 spoke of the gift ending when "that which is perfect" come. Many JWs often quote that scripture, saying that " that which is perfect" is the bible, so when the bible was completed, the gift ended. I don't know how this tradition developed, but that is not what their publications teach. I agree with that truth that the gift will cease when that which is perfect comes, although many witnesses who use that argument don't know they are teaching something different from their church understanding.

Let's look at the Reasoning book of JWs, page 404. Let's first see why they threw away the fine proof in 1cor 13:8-11, after that, we will see when that which is perfect will come.

Why did they dismiss the clear proof of when the gift will end at 1cor 13:8-11?

The Reasoning book states:

"At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek teʹlei·on, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue."

We can see how clear scripture at 1cor 13 was sidelined by the Watchtower. They were already getting to the correct understanding before they shifted it cleverly.

It is clear from that scripture that the gift of prophecy, knowledge and speaking in tongues are all part of the spiritual gifts, when that of prophecy ends, so will the other gifts. When will they end? The book correctly said it's when Gods purposes all get fulfilled in God's kingdom. By then, that which is perfect or complete would have come, showing that there is no need for the gifts.

After wrongly saying that this scripture is not talking about when the gift will end, the JW leaders proceeded to contradict itself with another comment on the same scripture. Let's see

WT July 15, 1992

Since a babe acts on the basis of limited knowledge and physical development, it can be swayed to and fro, as though being rocked in a cradle. But a man is much more developed physically, has greater knowledge, and usually is not easily swayed. He has abolished childhood thoughts, attitudes, and methods. Similarly, after God’s earthly organization grew out of its infancy, He judged that it did not need the spirit’s gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Though present-day members of the congregation, now in its old age, also feel no need for such gifts, they are glad to serve God under the guidance of his spirit."

This article is commenting on verse 11. Here they now said that the scripture is stating when the gift will end, when the church grows out of infancy. They have thus detached the whole point of Paul out of context. Paul had just shown why the gift will cease in the future, because they have partial knowledge. Paul is still continuing with this point by using himself to give object lesson of what he had already said above, just as a babe have partial knowledge, so are those with these spiritual gifts, they will get the perfect knowledge in God's kingdom.

Let's read verses 11, 12;

When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child.  12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known."

Did you notice how verse 12 started? for now we see in hazy outline. This words are connecting the point about the child with another illustration of looking at a metal mirror. How can we be sure? Notice verse 12b. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.". We see here that Paul has again brought himself as the object lesson. It's all about the partial knowledge and it ending in the future, when true christians will see face-to-face as it were.

Surprisingly, the Watchtower, gives this verse 12 a different meaning from verse 11.

In the Insight book, under "face", this is said:

"Comparing the understanding of God’s purpose had by the early Christian congregation with the fuller understanding to be had upon receiving their heavenly reward, and then coming to comprehend the divine purpose in its entirety as prophecy is fulfilled, the apostle Paul said: “For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face.”​—1Co 13:12; compare 2Co 3:18; 4:6"

Here they believe that the verse 12 will fulfill in the future kingdom, but verse 11 fulfilled after the first century. It is however clear that all this is about the future. Perhaps they did this inconsistent interpretation so that there supposition that the gift ended with the death of the apostles will have a scriptural footing. This is contextually impossible.

Let's look at the theory of Watchtower that the gift was passed by the apostles laying of hands or during their presence. According to them, after they died, no one had the power to transmit such powers. True, the scriptures shows different places the gift was passed by laying hands of the apostles or during their presence. In fact, in one instance, Simon wanted to pay to have that ability.

But we shouldn't forget that the gift came first at Pentecost. God poured the spirit directly from heaven. Nothing prevents God from doing the same anytime He wishes. Secondly, it was not only the apostles that transmitted the gift. We read:

Acts 9
17 So An·a·niʹas went and entered the house, and he laid his hands on him and said: “Saul, brother, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road along which you were coming, has sent me so that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit.”

This is how Paul got his miraculous gifts. There is no other area showing that Paul met the apostles to receive the spirit. So it wasn't only the apostles that transmitted that gift. Our God can use anyone to transmit the gift or He pours the Spirit by Himself.

As to the fact that miraculous work should be happening now, is it not written in Joel, that God will pour His spirit in the last days? If we are in the last days, assuming the gift even ceased, why wouldn't God pour it out again in fulfillment of His word?

Secondly, Rev 11:3-9 spoke of two prophets of God that will come with great miraculous power. JWs says this refers to Rutherford and his cohorts, however, verse 7 says that when they FINISH there witnessing, the beast will make war with them and conquer them. Yet this conquering is said to have happened when Rutherford was still alive, and after the so called conquering, Rutherford was still preaching. When the prophecy clearly says, the conquering happened when they have FINISHED their witnessing. To confirm that the two witnesses did finish their witnessing, after they were resurrected, did they start preaching again? No. The account says they flew to heaven.

Thirdly, we can glean from Matt 7:21,22 that we should have true prophets today.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?"

Speaking about people with miraculous gifts, Jesus says, not everyone. By saying not everyone, Jesus implies that some miraculous workers will genuinely call out to him when he comes back. Some will genuinely say they performed healing in his name and he will not deny them. Is it not logical however, to say that if Jesus is warning about false prophet, it shows that there MUST be true ones? If not, the word " false" makes no meaning.

In summary, there is no scriptural support for cessationism.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by MightySparrow: 9:16pm On Jan 21
Sand2022:
Jehovah's witnesses subscribe to cessationism. A theology that believes that spiritual gifts ceased in the first century.

Jehovah's witness hierarchy doesn't know for sure when the gift ceased. They deductively assume it ended in the first century. One of there books said:

"The gifts of the holy spirit were generally passed on to other Christians in the presence of the apostles, usually by the apostles placing their hands on fellow believers. (Acts 8:​18; 10:44-​46) It appears that those who received the gifts of the spirit from the apostles did not transfer them to others. (Acts 8:​5-7, 14-​17) To illustrate, a government official may issue a driver’s license to someone, but that person is not given the legal authority to issue a license to anyone else. Apparently, speaking in tongues ended with the death of the apostles and those who had personally received the gift from them."

The JW Governing Body do not believe that 1cor 13:8-11 spoke of the gift ending when "that which is perfect" come. Many JWs often quote that scripture, saying that " that which is perfect" is the bible, so when the bible was completed, the gift ended. I don't know how this tradition developed, but that is not what their publications teach. I agree with that truth that the gift will cease when that which is perfect comes, although many witnesses who use that argument don't know they are teaching something different from their church understanding.

Let's look at the Reasoning book of JWs, page 404. Let's first see why they threw away the fine proof in 1cor 13:8-11, after that, we will see when that which is perfect will come.

Why did they dismiss the clear proof of when the gift will end at 1cor 13:8-11?

The Reasoning book states:

"At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek teʹlei·on, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue."

We can see how clear scripture at 1cor 13 was sidelined by the Watchtower. They were already getting to the correct understanding before they shifted it cleverly.

It is clear from that scripture that the gift of prophecy, knowledge and speaking in tongues are all part of the spiritual gifts, when that of prophecy ends, so will the other gifts. When will they end? The book correctly said it's when Gods purposes all get fulfilled in God's kingdom. By then, that which is perfect or complete would have come, showing that there is no need for the gifts.

After wrongly saying that this scripture is not talking about when the gift will end, the JW leaders proceeded to contradict itself with another comment on the same scripture. Let's see

WT July 15, 1992

Since a babe acts on the basis of limited knowledge and physical development, it can be swayed to and fro, as though being rocked in a cradle. But a man is much more developed physically, has greater knowledge, and usually is not easily swayed. He has abolished childhood thoughts, attitudes, and methods. Similarly, after God’s earthly organization grew out of its infancy, He judged that it did not need the spirit’s gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Though present-day members of the congregation, now in its old age, also feel no need for such gifts, they are glad to serve God under the guidance of his spirit."

This article is commenting on verse 11. Here they now said that the scripture is stating when the gift will end, when the church grows out of infancy. They have thus detached the whole point of Paul out of context. Paul had just shown why the gift will cease in the future, because they have partial knowledge. Paul is still continuing with this point by using himself to give object lesson of what he had already said above, just as a babe have partial knowledge, so are those with these spiritual gifts, they will get the perfect knowledge in God's kingdom.

Let's read verses 11, 12;

When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child.  12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known."

Did you notice how verse 12 started? for now we see in hazy outline. This words are connecting the point about the child with another illustration of looking at a metal mirror. How can we be sure? Notice verse 12b. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.". We see here that Paul has again brought himself as the object lesson. It's all about the partial knowledge and it ending in the future, when true christians will see face-to-face as it were.

Surprisingly, the Watchtower, gives this verse 12 a different meaning from verse 11.

In the Insight book, under "face", this is said:

"Comparing the understanding of God’s purpose had by the early Christian congregation with the fuller understanding to be had upon receiving their heavenly reward, and then coming to comprehend the divine purpose in its entirety as prophecy is fulfilled, the apostle Paul said: “For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face.”​—1Co 13:12; compare 2Co 3:18; 4:6"

Here they believe that the verse 12 will fulfill in the future kingdom, but verse 11 fulfilled after the first century. It is however clear that all this is about the future. Perhaps they did this inconsistent interpretation so that there supposition that the gift ended with the death of the apostles will have a scriptural footing. This is contextually impossible.

Let's look at the theory of Watchtower that the gift was passed by the apostles laying of hands or during their presence. According to them, after they died, no one had the power to transmit such powers. True, the scriptures shows different places the gift was passed by laying hands of the apostles or during their presence. In fact, in one instance, Simon wanted to pay to have that ability.

But we shouldn't forget that the gift came first at Pentecost. God poured the spirit directly from heaven. Nothing prevents God from doing the same anytime He wishes. Secondly, it was not only the apostles that transmitted the gift. We read:

Acts 9
17 So An·a·niʹas went and entered the house, and he laid his hands on him and said: “Saul, brother, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road along which you were coming, has sent me so that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit.”

This is how Paul got his miraculous gifts. There is no other area showing that Paul met the apostles to receive the spirit. So it wasn't only the apostles that transmitted that gift. Our God can use anyone to transmit the gift or He pours the Spirit by Himself.

As to the fact that miraculous work should be happening now, is it not written in Joel, that God will pour His spirit in the last days? If we are in the last days, assuming the gift even ceased, why wouldn't God pour it out again in fulfillment of His word?

Secondly, Rev 11:3-9 spoke of two prophets of God that will come with great miraculous power. JWs says this refers to Rutherford and his cohorts, however, verse 7 says that when they FINISH there witnessing, the beast will make war with them and conquer them. Yet this conquering is said to have happened when Rutherford was still alive, and after the so called conquering, Rutherford was still preaching. When the prophecy clearly says, the conquering happened when they have FINISHED their witnessing. To confirm that the two witnesses did finish their witnessing, after they were resurrected, did they start preaching again? No. The account says they flew to heaven.

Thirdly, we can glean from Matt 7:21,22 that we should have true prophets today.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?"

Speaking about people with miraculous gifts, Jesus says, not everyone. By saying not everyone, Jesus implies that some miraculous workers will genuinely call out to him when he comes back. Some will genuinely say they performed healing in his name and he will not deny them. Is it not logical however, to say that if Jesus is warning about false prophet, it shows that there MUST be true ones? If not, the word " false" makes no meaning.

In summary, there is no scriptural support for cessationism.



Hello Sir. I am just seeing or reading your post on this series for the first time. I will look for the rest.

These people are just deluded In their conceit. Soon 'New Light' would overtake this belief. None of their doctrines or interpretations have been consistent I personally believe that the GB are either sensual, ignorant or dishonest in their interpretation of the scriptures. Years back, they argued that 'forever' has time limit. They have this bad idea that outside their organization, no one can understand the Bible. Yet they commit blunders.

I was arguing this same topic with MaximumSide some months back. His position was no one outside Jews had the gifts off the spirit. I asked him, what happened in Acts of Apostles? The record of the Bible are records of the exploits of the apostles not their converts. Himself as as soldier, I asked him, if the the instructors that teach a particular course were mentioned, does that mean no soldiers were produced? Does that mean none of the soldiers ever went to war?

Their GB has lost it altogether. I was surprised to see some of their doctrines being jettisoned subtly.
When you point their errors to them, they suddenly become dishonest, defending the GB not the truth of the scriptures.

Holy Spirit is real as well as the giifts.

1 Like

Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 10:56am On Jan 23
MightySparrow:



Hello Sir. I am just seeing or reading your post on this series for the first time. I will look for the rest.

These people are just deluded In their conceit. Soon 'New Light' would overtake this belief. None of their doctrines or interpretations have been consistent I personally believe that the GB are either sensual, ignorant or dishonest in their interpretation of the scriptures. Years back, they argued that 'forever' has time limit. They have this bad idea that outside their organization, no one can understand the Bible. Yet they commit blunders.

I was arguing this same topic with MaximumSide some months back. His position was no one outside Jews had the gifts off the spirit. I asked him, what happened in Acts of Apostles? The record of the Bible are records of the exploits of the apostles not their converts. Himself as as soldier, I asked him, if the the instructors that teach a particular course were mentioned, does that mean no soldiers were produced? Does that mean none of the soldiers ever went to war?

Their GB has lost it altogether. I was surprised to see some of their doctrines being jettisoned subtly.
When you point their errors to them, they suddenly become dishonest, defending the GB not the truth of the scriptures.

Holy Spirit is real as well as the girls.

Sparrow Deluded depraved perv forming miracle worker.
grin grin grin grin grin grin
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 11:07am On Jan 23
MightySparrow:



Hello Sir. I am just seeing or reading your post on this series for the first time. I will look for the rest.

These people are just deluded In their conceit. Soon 'New Light' would overtake this belief. None of their doctrines or interpretations have been consistent I personally believe that the GB are either sensual, ignorant or dishonest in their interpretation of the scriptures. Years back, they argued that 'forever' has time limit. They have this bad idea that outside their organization, no one can understand the Bible. Yet they commit blunders.

.

Hypocrite Sparrow the life of your deity is in the bottle sold by your pastorpreneurs for your protection while your pastorpreneurs parade the streets with retinue of well armed bodyguards.

Oga Sparrow charity begins at home.
Go & challenge your pastorpreneurs amassing profits from your Mumu to REMOVE that doctrine.

You have no right to throw tantrums on this platform about JW's belief system as long as you worship & you hold a position of authority in the business centers of your pastorpreneurs
.
grin grin grin grin
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 11:28am On Jan 23
MightySparrow:


I was arguing this same topic with MaximumSide some months back. His position was no one outside Jews had the gifts off the spirit. I asked him, what happened in Acts of Apostles? The record of the Bible are records of the exploits of the apostles not their converts. Himself as as soldier, I asked him, if the the instructors that teach a particular course were mentioned, does that mean no soldiers were produced? Does that mean none of the soldiers ever went to war?
Why where the Gentile believers present in the narratives of miracles of the book of Acts themselves not perform even one miracle in your Bible?


The Gentiles Dem no do am !!!!


MightySparrow:


Their GB has lost it altogether. I was surprised to see some of their doctrines being jettisoned subtly.
When you point their errors to them, they suddenly become dishonest, defending the GB not the truth of the scriptures.

Holy Spirit is real as well as the girls.
Your gods of men pastorpreneurs (whose bodyguards adorn your church pulpit) & sell protection you bought in a bottle, you & your pastorpreneurs have not lost it altogether?

Deluded depraved perv forming miracle worker.
Sparrow Hypocrite.

grin grin grin
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 12:00pm On Jan 23
@ Sand2022 ,

*Did Jehovah God pass miraculous gifts of prophecy, knowledge, speaking in tongues, healing etc to Sand2022?


* Did Jehovah God pass miraculous gifts of prophecy, knowledge, healing etc to your 3 deities worshippers?

I laugh in Chinese. grin grin grin grin

Nah una dey create the enabling environment for people like that man accused of various iniquities to thrive,function and operate in the guise of miracle worker.

*
No need to talk about Sparrow sef

Him Oga say him nah miracle worker but the life of him deity dey inside bottle wey Sparrow dey buy & sell to gullible sheeples.
Miracle workers weh dey pay tithes & buy holy water for protection,Dem sprinkle on their door steps.
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by MightySparrow: 7:36am On Jan 24
Janosky:


Hypocrite Sparrow the life of your deity is in the bottle sold by your pastorpreneurs for your protection while your pastorpreneurs parade the streets with retinue of well armed bodyguards.

Oga Sparrow charity begins at home.
Go & challenge your pastorpreneurs amassing profits from your Mumu to REMOVE that doctrine.

You have no right to throw tantrums on this platform about JW's belief system as long as you worship & you hold a position of authority in the business centers of your pastorpreneurs
.
grin grin grin grin



Have you considered my recent post?


https://www.nairaland.com/7973581/jehovahs-witnesses-abandon-1914-doctrine

What are you doing in your delusion centres?
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Sand2022: 10:37am On Jan 25
MightySparrow:



Hello Sir. I am just seeing or reading your post on this series for the first time. I will look for the rest.

Go to my profile, you will see all in this series.

These people are just deluded In their conceit. Soon 'New Light' would overtake this belief. None of their doctrines or interpretations have been consistent I personally believe that the GB are either sensual, ignorant or dishonest in their interpretation of the scriptures. Years back, they argued that 'forever' has time limit. They have this bad idea that outside their organization, no one can understand the Bible. Yet they commit blunders.

The new understanding added to that belief that forever has limit. In fact the new light implies that everlasting destruction may not be everlasting. Making us to ask, will some of those who die at Armageddon also be resurrected?

I was arguing this same topic with MaximumSide some months back. His position was no one outside Jews had the gifts off the spirit. I asked him, what happened in Acts of Apostles? The record of the Bible are records of the exploits of the apostles not their converts. Himself as as soldier, I asked him, if the the instructors that teach a particular course were mentioned, does that mean no soldiers were produced? Does that mean none of the soldiers ever went to war?

Maxim doesn't know much about the teachings of JWs. His position on the only Jew miracle is not taught by the GB. That is Maxim's own understanding. Don't blame the GB for that one.

Their GB has lost it altogether. I was surprised to see some of their doctrines being jettisoned subtly.
When you point their errors to them, they suddenly become dishonest, defending the GB not the truth of the scriptures.

Holy Spirit is real as well as the girls.

What do you expect. It is there religion. Many are not interested in the truth of the bible. They are concerned about what there leader teach.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:30pm On Jan 25
Janosky:

Sparrow Deluded depraved perv forming miracle worker.
Jesus said to Jehovah's Witnesses:

“You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain." Matthew 5:14

So if a religionist choose to study our doctrines to the extent of making up to 8th editions you know what that means! wink
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 1:58am On Jan 26
Janosky:
Your gods of men pastorpreneurs
you & your pastorpreneurs
grin grin grin

Janosky: your deity
your pastorpreneurs
your pastorpreneurs
your pastorpreneurs
your pastorpreneurs
grin grin grin grin

Janosky: your pastorpreneurs
your gods of men.
your anointed god of men! grin grin
your anointed god of men
grin

Janosky: Their Christendom's pastorpreneurs
grin grin grin grin

Janosky: Why did you not choose to be a member of Christendom?
cheesy
grin grin grin

Janosky: your 3 deities worshippers?
I laugh in Chinese. grin grin grin grin
him deity
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

Janosky: grin grin grin grin
Worships 3 deities

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


very dum lost fraud jw janosky

you gibberish speaking blasphemers think you are Jehovah's witnesses, u so deceived, aren't you

Christendom. / (ˈkrɪsəndəm) / noun. the collective body of Christians throughout the world or throughout history. an obsolete word for Christianity.

Mat 12:31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Mat 12:32  And whoever may speak a word against the Son of Man it will be forgiven to him, but whoever may speak against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, neither in this age, nor in that which is coming.

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

1 Like

Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 9:15am On Feb 13
MightySparrow:



Hello Sir. I am just seeing or reading your post on this series for the first time. I will look for the rest.

These people are just deluded In their conceit. Soon 'New Light' would overtake this belief. None of their doctrines or interpretations have been consistent I personally believe that the GB are either sensual, ignorant or dishonest in their interpretation of the scriptures. Years back, they argued that 'forever' has time limit. They have this bad idea that outside their organization, no one can understand the Bible. Yet they commit blunders.

I[b] was arguing this same topic with MaximumSide some months back. His position was no one outside Jews had the gifts off the spirit. I asked him, what happened in Acts of Apostles? The record of the Bible are records of the exploits of the apostles not their converts. Himself as as soldier, I asked him, if the the instructors that teach a particular course were mentioned, does that mean no soldiers were produced? Does that mean none of the soldiers ever went to war?
[/b]
.
Does your Bible new testament reveal the activities of Gentiles believers?
If you get liver Mention the gentiles that performed miracles in your own Bible.

Desist from your shallow,carnal tinted delusions.
grin


MightySparrow:



Their GB has lost it altogether. I was surprised to see some of their doctrines being jettisoned subtly.
When you point their errors to them, they suddenly become dishonest, defending the GB not the truth of the scriptures.

Holy Spirit is real as well as the girls.

1 Corinthians 13:9 did Paul know it all?

Sparrow HYPOCRISY.
Go & clear out the mess in Christendom.

Deluded pervert "oly spirit is real as well as the girls/women" shared by your Pastorpreneurs in the name of crusades.(screenshots proven evidence)

Nah FRAUD of Pastorpreneurs like Benny Hinn & the Olehs/Bolehs dem Sparrow and Mr Sand2022 dey support.

grin grin grin grin grin grin

Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 9:25am On Feb 13
Sand2022:
Jehovah's witnesses subscribe to cessationism. A theology that believes that spiritual gifts ceased in the first century.

Jehovah's witness hierarchy doesn't know for sure when the gift ceased. They deductively assume it ended in the first century. One of there books said:

"The gifts of the holy spirit were generally passed on to other Christians in the presence of the apostles, usually by the apostles placing their hands on fellow believers. (Acts 8:​18; 10:44-​46) It appears that those who received the gifts of the spirit from the apostles did not transfer them to others. (Acts 8:​5-7, 14-​17) To illustrate, a government official may issue a driver’s license to someone, but that person is not given the legal authority to issue a license to anyone else. Apparently, speaking in tongues ended with the death of the apostles and those who had personally received the gift from them."

The JW Governing Body do not believe that 1cor 13:8-11 spoke of the gift ending when "that which is perfect" come. Many JWs often quote that scripture, saying that " that which is perfect" is the bible, so when the bible was completed, the gift ended. I don't know how this tradition developed, but that is not what their publications teach. I agree with that truth that the gift will cease when that which is perfect comes, although many witnesses who use that argument don't know they are teaching something different from their church understanding.

Let's look at the Reasoning book of JWs, page 404. Let's first see why they threw away the fine proof in 1cor 13:8-11, after that, we will see when that which is perfect will come.

Why did they dismiss the clear proof of when the gift will end at 1cor 13:8-11?

The Reasoning book states:

"At 1 Corinthians 13:8 reference is made to several miraculous gifts—prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Verse 9 again refers to two of these gifts—knowledge and prophecy—saying: “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.” (KJ) Or, as RS reads: “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect.” Then verse 10 states: “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” (KJ) The word “perfect” is translated from the Greek teʹlei·on, which conveys the thought of being full grown, complete, or perfect. Ro, By, and NW here render it “complete.” Notice that it is not the gift of tongues that is said to be “imperfect,” “in part,” or partial. That is said of “prophecy” and “knowledge.” In other words, even with those miraculous gifts, the early Christians had only an imperfect or partial understanding of God’s purpose. But when the prophecies would come to fulfillment, when God’s purpose would be accomplished, then “that which is perfect,” or complete, would come. So, this is obviously not discussing how long the ‘gift of tongues’ would continue."

We can see how clear scripture at 1cor 13 was sidelined by the Watchtower. They were already getting to the correct understanding before they shifted it cleverly.

It is clear from that scripture that the gift of prophecy, knowledge and speaking in tongues are all part of the spiritual gifts, when that of prophecy ends, so will the other gifts. When will they end? The book correctly said it's when Gods purposes all get fulfilled in God's kingdom. By then, that which is perfect or complete would have come, showing that there is no need for the gifts.

After wrongly saying that this scripture is not talking about when the gift will end, the JW leaders proceeded to contradict itself with another comment on the same scripture. Let's see

WT July 15, 1992

Since a babe acts on the basis of limited knowledge and physical development, it can be swayed to and fro, as though being rocked in a cradle. But a man is much more developed physically, has greater knowledge, and usually is not easily swayed. He has abolished childhood thoughts, attitudes, and methods. Similarly, after God’s earthly organization grew out of its infancy, He judged that it did not need the spirit’s gifts of prophecy, tongues, and knowledge. Though present-day members of the congregation, now in its old age, also feel no need for such gifts, they are glad to serve God under the guidance of his spirit."

This article is commenting on verse 11. Here they now said that the scripture is stating when the gift will end, when the church grows out of infancy. They have thus detached the whole point of Paul out of context. Paul had just shown why the gift will cease in the future, because they have partial knowledge. Paul is still continuing with this point by using himself to give object lesson of what he had already said above, just as a babe have partial knowledge, so are those with these spiritual gifts, they will get the perfect knowledge in God's kingdom.

Let's read verses 11, 12;

When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child.  12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known."

Did you notice how verse 12 started? for now we see in hazy outline. This words are connecting the point about the child with another illustration of looking at a metal mirror. How can we be sure? Notice verse 12b. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.". We see here that Paul has again brought himself as the object lesson. It's all about the partial knowledge and it ending in the future, when true christians will see face-to-face as it were.

Surprisingly, the Watchtower, gives this verse 12 a different meaning from verse 11.

In the Insight book, under "face", this is said:

"Comparing the understanding of God’s purpose had by the early Christian congregation with the fuller understanding to be had upon receiving their heavenly reward, and then coming to comprehend the divine purpose in its entirety as prophecy is fulfilled, the apostle Paul said: “For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face.”​—1Co 13:12; compare 2Co 3:18; 4:6"

Here they believe that the verse 12 will fulfill in the future kingdom, but verse 11 fulfilled after the first century. It is however clear that all this is about the future. Perhaps they did this inconsistent interpretation so that there supposition that the gift ended with the death of the apostles will have a scriptural footing. This is contextually impossible.

Let's look at the theory of Watchtower that the gift was passed by the apostles laying of hands or during their presence. According to them, after they died, no one had the power to transmit such powers. True, the scriptures shows different places the gift was passed by laying hands of the apostles or during their presence. In fact, in one instance, Simon wanted to pay to have that ability.

But we shouldn't forget that the gift came first at Pentecost. God poured the spirit directly from heaven. Nothing prevents God from doing the same anytime He wishes. Secondly, it was not only the apostles that transmitted the gift. We read:

Acts 9
17 So An·a·niʹas went and entered the house, and he laid his hands on him and said: “Saul, brother, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road along which you were coming, has sent me so that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit.”

This is how Paul got his miraculous gifts. There is no other area showing that Paul met the apostles to receive the spirit. So it wasn't only the apostles that transmitted that gift. Our God can use anyone to transmit the gift or He pours the Spirit by Himself.

As to the fact that miraculous work should be happening now, is it not written in Joel, that God will pour His spirit in the last days? If we are in the last days, assuming the gift even ceased, why wouldn't God pour it out again in fulfillment of His word?

Secondly, Rev 11:3-9 spoke of two prophets of God that will come with great miraculous power. JWs says this refers to Rutherford and his cohorts, however, verse 7 says that when they FINISH there witnessing, the beast will make war with them and conquer them. Yet this conquering is said to have happened when Rutherford was still alive, and after the so called conquering, Rutherford was still preaching. When the prophecy clearly says, the conquering happened when they have FINISHED their witnessing. To confirm that the two witnesses did finish their witnessing, after they were resurrected, did they start preaching again? No. The account says they flew to heaven.

Thirdly, we can glean from Matt 7:21,22 that we should have true prophets today.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?"

Speaking about people with miraculous gifts, Jesus says, not everyone. By saying not everyone, Jesus implies that some miraculous workers will genuinely call out to him when he comes back. Some will genuinely say they performed healing in his name and he will not deny them. Is it not logical however, to say that if Jesus is warning about false prophet, it shows that there MUST be true ones? If not, the word " false" makes no meaning.

In summary, there is no scriptural support for cessationism.


Let the screenshots evidences EXPOSE THE FRAUD of PROPHECIES PRACTICED BY CHRISTENDOM which the OP ,Mr Sand2022 supports.

Oga Sand2022, your flawed adventure to discredit JWs can not prevail. grin grin

Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Emusan(m): 10:11am On Feb 13
Janosky:


Let the screenshots evidences EXPOSE THE FRAUD of PROPHECIES PRACTICED BY CHRISTENDOM which the OP ,Mr Sand2022 supports.

Oga Sand2022, your flawed adventure to discredit JWs can not prevail. grin grin

The testimony of this man is so heartwarming, what a wicked world we live.

But hard it been this is about Watchtower, JaNosense will you have agreed with him or defend Watchtower?
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 10:54pm On Feb 15
Janosky:
Let the screenshots evidences EXPOSE THE FRAUD of PROPHECIES PRACTICED BY CHRISTENDOM which the OP ,Mr Sand2022 supports.
Oga Sand2022, your flawed adventure to discredit JWs can not prevail. grin grin

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


truly lost fraud jw janosky, all of Christianity doesn't practise prophecy fraud,
you such a liar against Christianity, aren't you fraud jw:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Christendom. / (ˈkrɪsəndəm) / noun. the collective body of Christians throughout the world or throughout history. an obsolete word for Christianity.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 11:08pm On Feb 15
johnw47:


Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


truly lost fraud jw janosky, all of Christianity doesn't practise prophecy fraud,
you such a liar against Christianity, aren't you fraud jw:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Christendom. / (ˈkrɪsəndəm) / noun. the collective body of Christians throughout the world or throughout history. an obsolete word for Christianity.



Charles Awuzie has exposed the fraud you labeled "prophecy/miracles".

John WAILING HYPOCRITE grin
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 11:22pm On Feb 15
Janosky:
Charles Awuzie has exposed the fraud you labeled "prophecy/miracles".
John WAILING HYPOCRITE grin

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


lost fraud jw janosky, i labeled nothing,
and truly liar, "all of Christianity doesn't practise prophecy fraud", is what i said
see yet again how you cannot stop lying oh false accuser and follower of the devil:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Rev_12:10  Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

johnw47:

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


truly lost fraud jw janosky, all of Christianity doesn't practise prophecy fraud,
you such a liar against Christianity, aren't you fraud jw:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Christendom. / (ˈkrɪsəndəm) / noun. the collective body of Christians throughout the world or throughout history. an obsolete word for Christianity.


Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 11:39pm On Feb 15
lost fraud jw janosky

you have replied with your lie and false accusation,
and now oh coward you run away, of course:

rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

false accuser like the devil:
Rev_12:10  Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 1:09am On Feb 16
Janosky:
Charles Awuzie has exposed the fraud you labeled "prophecy/miracles".
John WAILING HYPOCRITE grin

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool



do quote my hypocrisy, won't you oh liar like the devil:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by Janosky: 7:56am On Feb 24
johnw47:


Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool



do quote my hypocrisy, won't you oh liar like the devil:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.



John W Dim Witted
OZUO Pro max

grin grin grin grin
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:37am On Feb 24
https://www.nairaland.com/8010870/miracles-today-simply-scam-beware

paxonel:
I really do believe that miracles are real, but they are only for a significant purpose. For instance, when God is about to establish his covenant with man, he back-up a lot of confirmation with miracles.

But here in this current day Nigeria for example, there are no new covenant order than what has already been established as Christianity since approximately 2000 years ago, so why are pastors claiming to perform miracles, for what purpose?

The economy sucks, and there is starvation in the land, we have great pastors in this country and non of them have ever gathered the very poor to turn one bag of rice to 5000 bags enough to feed people like what Jesus did. Yet they keep telling you in church, it is well, you will prosper in hard times.
And the prosperity gospel will work by miracle.

2023 was general election, very few came out to vote
Even the few ones that voted, some of them did so based on tribalism and not based on competence.

Now here is the thing,
Anybody that testify in church that he was sick and we was prayed for, and he got healed IS A SCAM, beware!
Any pastor that tells you that my God is a God of signs and wonders, tells you that at your own peril

Be wise!
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 10:34pm On Feb 24
Janosky:
John W Dim Witted
OZUO Pro max
grin grin grin grin

 Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


lost fraud jw janosky

you cannot quote my hyprocisy,
all you can do is lie like the devil, of course;

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 2:52am On Mar 01
Janosky:
Charles Awuzie has exposed the fraud you labeled "prophecy/miracles".
John WAILING HYPOCRITE grin

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


fraud jw janosky

quote the fraud that i labeled "prophecy/miracles"

it's impossible for you lost false jw's to ever stop lying, isn't it:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
Re: Ministry To Jws, Part 8: Miraculous Gifts by johnw47: 3:27am On Apr 05
Janosky:
Charles Awuzie has exposed the fraud you labeled "prophecy/miracles".
John WAILING HYPOCRITE grin

Ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool



lost paranoid fraud jw janonsense

i'm still waiting for you oh most fearful one, to post the quote about the fraud i labeled "prophecy/miracles"
you not only lie but you repeat your lies over and over again
you false jw's have no shame in your lies and paranoia etc. no repentance whatsoever, of course
because you have not the Holy Spirit

false jw's your lies are off the devil
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, that is his natural way of speaking, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

your fearful paranoia is also off the devil
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

(1) (Reply)

MFM Wins As Court Awards $50,000 Against Blogger, Funke Ashekun For Defamation / Have Faith. God Be With You! / Sincerity

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 172
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.