wonlasewonimi:


I live in Northfleet Kent. I don't know where East kent is lol

East Kent is Ashford region...... Some pretty nice solid new builds in East Kent........ Well, till you get stuck on the M20 .......🤣😄

Lexusgs430:


East Kent is Ashford region...... Some pretty nice solid new builds in East Kent........ Well, till you get stuck on the M20 .......🤣😄

Thank you. Ashford is way too far for me. I can get fresh meat in Romford. Nice solid new builds ke...I thought they have more of old builds.

Lexusgs430:


East Kent is Ashford region...... Some pretty nice solid new builds in East Kent........ Well, till you get stuck on the M20 .......🤣😄

I've been trying to understand why majority of your comments always bear these smiling emojis. Is it a signature sir or na things just funny like that?

ehizario2012:


I've been trying to understand why majority of your comments always bear these smiling emojis. Is it a signature sir or na things just funny like that?

You don’t understand brother you just get used to it.

deept:


1.Social care should not be outsourced. The major winners are the private social care companies, property investors

2.Families should be involved in care and not leave it 100% to government

3.Disability should be dis-incentivized. Some people wear it as a badge of honor and it seems all these benefits encourage people to jump on the gravy train

4. Being disabled does not mean a person cant be productive, subject to the kind of disability they have and can be encouraged to contribute to the society rather than be a liability.

You say this is an individual case, yes a few 10s or hundred people in a council but the impact that is having on council funds to effect its other functions. Besides I didnt say those not able to work shouldnt be supported, was responding to somone who said social care is helping the economy.

Robust economy?

The one that gets to me are fit men/ women on benefit just because they don’t want to do some certain jobs.

Zahra29:


Hmm, data like this lends credence to the govt argument and subsequent clampdown on education being used as a backdoor route by some nationalities.

How is that such a bad thing if it's done legally?

If it's not education, then it'll be something else or what do you mean?

And what would you consider a front door route?

Zahra29:


It means that post the policy implementation date, the average role will need to offer a salary of at least £38,700 to be eligible for sponsorship.

There are exceptions:

- roles on the health and care visa route (carers, NHS medical roles etc)
-occupations on the national pay scale e.g. teachers
-occupations on the shortage list (however a new, slimmed down shortage list is due to be released in April)
- graduate roles

do not have to meet this salary requirement.

The new salary requirement only applies to new applicants. Those already on a skilled worker visa can continue with their existing salary, however they would need to earn at least £29,000 to be able to bring dependants on their visa based on the new family visa rules.(from April 11). This amount will then rise to £38,700 from early 2025.

Hope this makes sense.

At the bold, do you have a source because my thinking initially is that there'll be no exceptions? This is the first I'm reading about some exempted categories.

Raalsalghul:


How is that such a bad thing if it's done legally?

If it's not education, then it'll be something else or what do you mean?

And what would you consider a front door route?

Front door routes include skilled worker visas and their dependants, family visas such as spousal visas, refugee applications etc - where the settlement intent is transparent.

It's "bad" because students are traditionally expected to return home after their studies, in fact many students attest to this during their visa applications.
The government wouldn't grant 300k plus student visas if it thought they would all stay permanently and bring their families along also. For context, the government has pledged for many years to reduce net immigration to less than 100k a year - immigration from the student route alone would swamp this figure.

Raalsalghul:


At the bold, do you have a source because my thinking initially is that there'll be no exceptions? This is the first I'm reading about some exempted categories.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9920/

Relevant excerpts below:

The minimum salary to be sponsored for a Skilled Worker visa will increase, with the baseline minimum rising from £26,200 to £38,700 (but not for the Health and Care Worker visa, which includes social care, or for education workers on national pay scales).

Zahra29:


Front door routes include skilled worker visas and their dependants, family visas such as spousal visas, refugee applications etc - where the settlement intent is transparent.

It's "bad" because students are traditionally expected to return home after their studies, in fact many students attest to this during their visa applications.
The government wouldn't grant 300k plus student visas if it thought they would all stay permanently and bring their families along also. For context, the government has pledged for many years to reduce net immigration to less than 100k a year - immigration from the student route alone would swamp this figure.

Study route is the most common route to relocation and this has been going on for decades even the government knows this. And it’s a Front door route as long as it’s done legally.

Zahra29:


https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9920/

Relevant excerpts below:

The minimum salary to be sponsored for a Skilled Worker visa will increase, with the baseline minimum rising from £26,200 to £38,700 (but not for the Health and Care Worker visa, which includes social care, or for education workers on national pay scales).

Okay, thank you.

lavida001:

The one that gets to me are fit men/ women on benefit just because they don’t want to do some certain jobs.

Have you seen where someone on benefits owes a drug dealer?
You'll see them picking cash in hand site work with immediate alacrity... Same person forming "I can't work"

Don't ask me how I know

Zahra29:


There will no longer be the option to sponsor family on the care route (except in the NHS, and there will be no threshold in this case)

When last I checked, carers could still sponsor family but they'd be subject to same salary treshold as everyone else (38k) not the reduced salary treshold for the initial visa.

Zahra29:


Front door routes include skilled worker visas and their dependants, family visas such as spousal visas, refugee applications etc - where the settlement intent is transparent.

It's "bad" because students are traditionally expected to return home after their studies, in fact many students attest to this during their visa applications.
The government wouldn't grant 300k plus student visas if it thought they would all stay permanently and bring their families along also. For context, the government has pledged for many years to reduce net immigration to less than 100k a year - immigration from the student route alone would swamp this figure.

Zahra29, I've always appreciated your posts and insights on this thread because 9 times out of 10, it is based on logic and facts and it also represents the perspective of the British which I'm sure folks on this thread will appreciate as they get to know how their hosts view them

But to think every one that's given student visas will return home makes me question the intelligence of the British government or those working for them at least. It's just pure naive thinking at its finest.

So if a student comes here, pays into the system's education and gets a job that's willing to sponsor them after school till peradventure they get residency, how is that a back door route especially given that they have done everything legally and according to the laws. Everything the student has used to stay back was created by the government itself and is legal: School's CAS, Student visa, BRP, Graduate Visa, Certificate of Sponsorship, Work Visa, ILR BRP, Passport. Are you telling me that there are people in the government that don't know that these sequence of visas will lead to a permanent residency.

Secondly, the U.K is a data driven country. They have the information of all people coming into the country via schooling and going out. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure they have the data of those that have gone on to achieve residency from this data in the past so they must know some people use the study route to stay back in their country. So knowing this, why do they continually open their doors, they did it pre-2012, they did it for the last 2/3 yearsand even though they are making efforts to clamp down on the whole thing, I'm pretty sure they'll open their doors again in the future when the time is right. Do they want to tell me that they really have not envisaged that a percentage of the population will try to stay back especially given the data and trends from previous years. Really?

There are many things you can argue that's not right and illegal in the whole thing like buying of CoS, fake dependants, students not paying their fees completely etc. Heck, even the person you quoted probably used education as a route to immigration. However, saying it's a "back door" route to immigration in my opinion is just downright condescending though I'm not surprised at that statement, It just really reinforces my theory and knowledge of how Brit folks think hence my "guided interactions" with them.

Good thing they're trying to clampdown on the whole thing "now" and shut the doors but in the future when they open up the borders again and I'm sure they will, hope you won't start thinking then that you expect them to return home as the data from the current set in (the past two/three years) will be available for the leaders then to see.

Tier4Dependant:


Study route is the most common route to relocation and this has been going on for decades even the government knows this. And it’s a Front door route as long as it’s done legally.

The thing tire me: data that is available for every one to see.

Tier4Dependant:


Study route is the most common route to relocation and this has been going on for decades even the government knows this. And it’s a Front door route as long as it’s done legally.

I find it funny when folks use the back door statement

Every policy maker knows that higher education is a front door to immigration. Same as with most western societies. This does not mean that every student should stay back.
Its the masters students I partly blame. If I'm paying over 20k, then I would be clear and vocal on what I want. It's my money afterall and locals wouldn't pay anything close.

That was the reason why the government reintroduced the PSW visa. To make the pathway between study and stay more straightforward and attractive.

jedisco:


I find it funny when folks use the back door statement

Every policy maker knows that higher education is a front door to immigration. Same as with most western societies. This does not mean that every student should stay back.
Its the masters students I partly blame. If I'm paying over 20k, then I would be clear and vocal on what I want. It's my money afterall and locals wouldn't pay anything close.

That was the reason why the government reintroduced the PSW visa. To make the pathway between study and stay more straightforward and attractive.

who approved the PSW visas? were they compelled to?

Tier4Dependant:


Study route is the most common route to relocation and this has been going on for decades even the government knows this. And it’s a Front door route as long as it’s done legally.

Your opinion versus facts.

It is not the most common route to relocation. Before the recent surge and subsequent clampdown, most overseas students returned home after their studies (not necessarily immediately after) which is why the govt (especially Theresa May) was pressed upon for years to exclude students from migration figures - the argument being that they were only temporary residents.

If it was an accepted route to permanent relocation, the study and PSW years would be included in the standard 5 year route to settlement.

jedisco:


When last I checked, carers could still sponsor family but they'd be subject to same salary treshold as everyone else (38k) not the reduced salary treshold for the initial visa.

Carers are still able to sponsor families until March 11. After this date , new carers (ie not already on a visa) will not be able to sponsor family unless they work in the NHS.

Carers and all health workers are exempted from the increased salary threshold

Raalsalghul:

Zahra29, I've always appreciated your posts and insights on this thread because 9 times out of 10, it is based on logic and facts and it also represents the perspective of the British which I'm sure folks on this thread will appreciate as they get to know how their hosts view them

But to think every one that's given student visas will return home makes me question the intelligence of the British government or those working for them at least. It's just pure naive thinking at its finest.

Thanks for your response. You're right in that historically a proportion of students have always stayed back and extended their studies, got married to a British national or converted to a work visa - basically settled permanently. That would have been built into ONS migration predictions and the govt wouldn't usually bat an eyelid as long as the number was within the expected range.
And don't forget that many/most student applicants would have told the school and/or the visa officer that they plan to return to their home country after studying/PSW

The issue arose when the actual and predicted migration numbers jumped massively over the last 2 years and a particular trend became apparent.

Call them naive but do you think that after Brexit the UK govt really intended for over 600k students and their families to migrate permanently to the UK every year (not counting skilled workers and the rest)?

People forget that not every Western country is like Canada with its open immigration policy.....And tbh there is possibly an element of "ism" here because one of their main concerns is where the new immigrants were coming from en masse. Hence the rapid clampdown.

the way you put your points together

Love the way you ended it

Zahra29:


Your opinion versus facts.

It is not the most common route to relocation. Before the recent surge and subsequent clampdown, most overseas students returned home after their studies (not necessarily immediately after) which is why the govt (especially Theresa May) was pressed upon for years to exclude students from migration figures - the argument being that they were only temporary residents.

If it was an accepted route to permanent relocation, the study and PSW years would be included in the standard 5 year route to settlement.

Good morning. What's the real significance of the UK flexible working coming to play from April? I feel this would be really massive.

Zahra29:


Thanks for your response. You're right in that historically a proportion of students have always stayed back and extended their studies, got married to a British national or converted to a work visa - basically settled permanently. That would have been built into ONS migration predictions and the govt wouldn't usually bat an eyelid as long as the number was within the expected range.
And don't forget that many/most student applicants would have told the school and/or the visa officer that they plan to return to their home country after studying/PSW

The issue arose when the actual and predicted migration numbers jumped massively over the last 2 years and a particular trend became apparent.

Call them naive but do you think that after Brexit the UK govt really intended for over 600k students and their families to migrate permanently to the UK every year (not counting skilled workers and the rest)?

People forget that not every Western country is like Canada with its open immigration policy.....And tbh there is possibly an element of "ism" here because one of their main concerns is where the new immigrants were coming from en masse. Hence the rapid clampdown.

At the bold, if you put it this way, then I cannot argue: only makes sense to padlock your gates when the intake is significantly larger than the predicted.

I just had a problem with you using that phrase "back door" when the process from student to permanent resident has been open, transparent and legal.

And of course the R-ism effect is fully in place here, no one can deny that. "After all, majority of the recent immigrants don't look like us".

Like one of my Nairaland gurus Gerrard59 will say: humans are and will always be tribal.

We should learn to see the world for what it is and not what it should be.

jedisco:


I find it funny when folks use the back door statement

Every policy maker knows that higher education is a front door to immigration. Same as with most western societies. This does not mean that every student should stay back.
Its the masters students I partly blame. If I'm paying over 20k, then I would be clear and vocal on what I want. It's my money afterall and locals wouldn't pay anything close.

That was the reason why the government reintroduced the PSW visa. To make the pathway between study and stay more straightforward and attractive.

Very funny.

Raalsalghul:


At the bold, if you put it this way, then I cannot argue: only makes sense to padlock your gates when the intake is significantly larger than the predicted.

I just had a problem with you using that phrase "back door" when the process from student to permanent resident has been open, transparent and legal.

And of course the R-ism effect is fully in place here, no one can deny that. "After all, majority of the recent immigrants don't look like us".

Like one of my Nairaland gurus Gerrard59 will say: humans are and will always be tribal.

We should learn to see the world for what it is and not what it should be.

...for what it is, and not what it should be. Well said. A dentist friend of mine was narrating how some patients refuse black doctors till now, as if na d doctor disease go kill.

R***SM and tri****sm sit deep in the human nature, nothing can take it away. It can only be managed. Michael Jackson tried to become white but he still wasn't accepted, so no matter the number of years spent here or ILR/citizen or whatever status, never forget who you are. It's their land, and rightly so.

The aim is to make the best of the opportunities here, and firmly understand your place while actively contributing to the development of the host country/community. That's a better way of seeing the symbiotic relationship.

ehizario2012:


...for what it is, and not what it should be. Well said. A dentist friend of mine was narrating how some patients refuse black doctors till now, as if na d doctor disease go kill.

R***SM and tri****sm sit deep in the human nature, nothing can take it away. It can only be managed. Michael Jackson tried to become white but he still wasn't accepted, so no matter the number of years spent here or ILR/citizen or whatever status, never forget who you are. It's their land, and rightly so.

The aim is to make the best of the opportunities here, and firmly understand your place while actively contributing to the development of the host country/community. That's a better way of seeing the symbiotic relationship.

Spot on!

Another principle which I've applied, learned from a Nairalander here is "Work with them, play with your own". Simple!

Zahra29:


Your opinion versus facts.

It is not the most common route to relocation. Before the recent surge and subsequent clampdown, most overseas students returned home after their studies (not necessarily immediately after) which is why the govt (especially Theresa May) was pressed upon for years to exclude students from migration figures - the argument being that they were only temporary residents.

If it was an accepted route to permanent relocation, the study and PSW years would be included in the standard 5 year route to settlement.

Just out of curiosity, what then is the most common route to relocation?

Do you also have the data?

ehizario2012:


...for what it is, and not what it should be. Well said. A dentist friend of mine was narrating how some patients refuse black doctors till now, as if na d doctor disease go kill.

R***SM and tri****sm sit deep in the human nature, nothing can take it away. It can only be managed. Michael Jackson tried to become white but he still wasn't accepted, so no matter the number of years spent here or ILR/citizen or whatever status, never forget who you are. It's their land, and rightly so.

The aim is to make the best of the opportunities here, and firmly understand your place while actively contributing to the development of the host country/community. That's a better way of seeing the symbiotic relationship.

He had a Skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin.

ehizario2012:


I've been trying to understand why majority of your comments always bear these smiling emojis. Is it a signature sir or na things just funny like that?

I am addicted to emojis.......😂🤣😜

Raalsalghul:


At the bold, if you put it this way, then I cannot argue: only makes sense to padlock your gates when the intake is significantly larger than the predicted.

I just had a problem with you using that phrase "back door" when the process from student to permanent resident has been open, transparent and legal.

And of course the R-ism effect is fully in place here, no one can deny that. "After all, majority of the recent immigrants don't look like us".

Like one of my Nairaland gurus Gerrard59 will say: humans are and will always be tribal.

We should learn to see the world for what it is and not what it should be.

The back door phrase was used by the government.

Re the bolded, you might be conflating UK's immigration policies with Canada's. There is no direct pathway in the UK from student to permanent resident. The student and PSW visas are temporary and do not count towards permanent residency (except on a 10 year route when combined with other visa routes).