₦airaland Forum

SIRTee15:
This is brutal. They couldn't reply to the breastfeeding adult rebuttal.
So Muhammed actually approved women to breast feed adult men. Wonderful.

But TenQ do U actually think goat came in and ate the paper of the adult breastfeeding and stoning of women.
Remember it was Aisha who said a goat came in and ate the paper. Nobody to corroborate her story.
Do U actually believe that story from Aisha. Remember Aisha was already being accused of adultery and she didn't like the idea of men coming upon her for breastfeeding.
So I'm not surprised those Quranic verses were 'eaten by goat' while in her custody.

Ohyoudidn't, Explore2xmore, expanse something to ponder on....
What actually happened to the paper of adult breastfeeding and stoning of women in the custody of Aisha?

TenQ:
It could be a conspiracy between Aisha and her father Abubakar to tear off pages of the written Quran to wipe off evidence.

This was probably why Abubakar had to do a new Quran while pretending that the Quran of Mohammed was lost.

At least the five times breastfeeding was recited but somehow it did not make it into the Quran edited by Zaid.

SIRTee15:
Hmm I didn't even consider abubakar's angle.
You right, Aisha would not dare pull such move without backing of a powerful person.
That's why abubakar refused to consult the best reciters of his time such as ibn mosood to compile the Koran...instead he chose a small boy he could easily manipulate.
Ibn mosood was one of the reciters Muhammad recommended for those who wanted to memorise the Koran and already compiled his own Koran when abu ordered the compilation of the Koran.

The question is why didn't Abu seek counsel from ibn mosood? The answer is now clear. I'm sure his Koran contain verses of breast feeding adult and stoning of women.

Its pertinent to note ibn mosood rejected the uthman codex until his death. He said he will never abandon the Koran he leant from Muhammed himself to embrace that of Zaid who mohammed never rated as a great reciter.

TenQ:
The problem is that Muslims still need to tell us exactly where the Qur'an of Mohammed was kept.

Was it with Aisha?

TenQ:
You can see why I said:
You are seriously wishing and hoping that Islam is the Truth, unfortunately, Islam was built on the foundation of cascades of lies upon lies!

This is the reasons you cannot seem to be able to answer any direct Questions.

Please let's call it a day sir.
If Islam was true, it wouldn't be difficult answering any Questions because the Truth cannot be shaken!

Salam Alaikum!

TenQ:
The problem is that Muslims still need to tell us exactly where the Qur'an of Mohammed was kept.

Was it with Aisha?

SIRTee15:
Hmm I didn't even consider abubakar's angle.
You right, Aisha would not dare pull such move without backing of a powerful person.
That's why abubakar refused to consult the best reciters of his time such as ibn mosood to compile the Koran...instead he chose a small boy he could easily manipulate.
Ibn mosood was one of the reciters Muhammad recommended for those who wanted to memorise the Koran and already compiled his own Koran when abu ordered the compilation of the Koran.

The question is why didn't Abu seek counsel from ibn mosood? The answer is now clear. I'm sure his Koran contain verses of breast feeding adult and stoning of women.

Its pertinent to note ibn mosood rejected the uthman codex until his death. He said he will never abandon the Koran he leant from Muhammed himself to embrace that of Zaid who mohammed never rated as a great reciter.

TenQ:
It could be a conspiracy between Aisha and her father Abubakar to tear off pages of the written Quran to wipe off evidence.

This was probably why Abubakar had to do a new Quran while pretending that the Quran of Mohammed was lost.

At least the five times breastfeeding was recited but somehow it did not make it into the Quran edited by Zaid.

gaskiyamagana:
Good jargon -jargons to make Quran of Islam looks like Bible of Christianity that was founded on FICTION FALLACY FALSEHOOD FABRICATION MISINTERPRETATION and MISREPRESENTATION of true God and messengers especially prophet Isa (asw).

gaskiyamagana:
Good jargon -jargons to make Quran of Islam looks like Bible of Christianity that was founded on FICTION FALLACY FALSEHOOD FABRICATION MISINTERPRETATION and MISREPRESENTATION of true God and messengers especially prophet Isa (asw).

SIRTee15:
Even more disturbing is the fact that ibn masud is not the only Muhammed's anointed reciter that rejected the Qur'an compiled by Zaid. Ubay also rejected uthman codex and held on to his own version of quran.

Muhammed had told his companions to learn Qur'an from 4 people- these include ibn masud and ibn Ubay. Both of them rejected the uthman codex.


4719. It is related from Ibn ‘Abbas that ‘Umar said, “Ubayy was the one of us with the best recitation, yet we leave some of the words of Ubayy. Ubayy said, ‘I took it from the mouth of the Messenger of Allah and WILL NOT LEAVE IT for anything.’ Allah Almighty says, ‘Whenever We abrogate an ayat or cause it to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or equal to it.’ (2:106)” (Aisha Bewley, Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, Chapter 69. Book of the Virtues of the Qur’an, VIII: The reciters among the Companions of the Prophet)

Islamic scholars know that Ubai Ibn Ka’b had a compilation of the Quran that differed from the current version, which was compiled primarily by Zaid Ibn Thabit.
Among the differences we know of between Zaid & Ubai’s Qurans, was the fact that Ubai’s Quran had two additional surahs, al-Hafd and al-Khal'.

This problem is acknowledged by Umar in the Hadith. In Sahih Bukhari, Vol. VI, #527, Umar noted that, despite the fact that Ubai was called the greatest reciter of the Quran by Muhammad, two of the Surahs in Ubai’s Quran were not put in Zaid’s codex.

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. VI, #527 “Narrated Ibn Abbas: ‘Umar said “Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Quran) yet we leave some of what he recites.” (2:106)’”

Ubai’s codex of the Quran was the standard version used in Syria before Uthman ordered all manuscripts that did not agree with the one compiled by Zaid et al. to be burned. Many still know Ubai’s surahs today! These surahs have not been lost, they have been REJECTED by the Muslim leaders!

According to Surah 3:3-4, these leaders bring a heavy doom on themselves and their followers.

Ubai surahs were not abrogated by Allah, they were abrogated by Zaid and those who chose his text.
The Quran promises abrogated or forgotten things are replaced by Allah with something similar or better (Surah 2:106). How could this be done after Muhammad has passed away?

Zaid et al. should have accepted Ubai’s surahs even if they were only found with Ubai, since they accepted portions found only with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari (Bukhari, Vol. VI, #509, #510), and Ubai’s credentials exceeded that of Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari.


As we can see the so called preservation of the Qur'an is intellectual dishonesty.

SIRTee15:
Even more disturbing is the fact that ibn masud is not the only Muhammed's anointed reciter that rejected the Qur'an compiled by Zaid. Ubay also rejected uthman codex and held on to his own version of quran.

Muhammed had told his companions to learn Qur'an from 4 people- these include ibn masud and ibn Ubay. Both of them rejected the uthman codex.


4719. It is related from Ibn ‘Abbas that ‘Umar said, “Ubayy was the one of us with the best recitation, yet we leave some of the words of Ubayy. Ubayy said, ‘I took it from the mouth of the Messenger of Allah and WILL NOT LEAVE IT for anything.’ Allah Almighty says, ‘Whenever We abrogate an ayat or cause it to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or equal to it.’ (2:106)” (Aisha Bewley, Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, Chapter 69. Book of the Virtues of the Qur’an, VIII: The reciters among the Companions of the Prophet)

Islamic scholars know that Ubai Ibn Ka’b had a compilation of the Quran that differed from the current version, which was compiled primarily by Zaid Ibn Thabit.
Among the differences we know of between Zaid & Ubai’s Qurans, was the fact that Ubai’s Quran had two additional surahs, al-Hafd and al-Khal'.

This problem is acknowledged by Umar in the Hadith. In Sahih Bukhari, Vol. VI, #527, Umar noted that, despite the fact that Ubai was called the greatest reciter of the Quran by Muhammad, two of the Surahs in Ubai’s Quran were not put in Zaid’s codex.

Sahih Bukhari, Vol. VI, #527 “Narrated Ibn Abbas: ‘Umar said “Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Quran) yet we leave some of what he recites.” (2:106)’”

Ubai’s codex of the Quran was the standard version used in Syria before Uthman ordered all manuscripts that did not agree with the one compiled by Zaid et al. to be burned. Many still know Ubai’s surahs today! These surahs have not been lost, they have been REJECTED by the Muslim leaders!

According to Surah 3:3-4, these leaders bring a heavy doom on themselves and their followers.

Ubai surahs were not abrogated by Allah, they were abrogated by Zaid and those who chose his text.
The Quran promises abrogated or forgotten things are replaced by Allah with something similar or better (Surah 2:106). How could this be done after Muhammad has passed away?

Zaid et al. should have accepted Ubai’s surahs even if they were only found with Ubai, since they accepted portions found only with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari (Bukhari, Vol. VI, #509, #510), and Ubai’s credentials exceeded that of Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari.


As we can see the so called preservation of the Qur'an is intellectual dishonesty.

TenQ:
It could be a conspiracy between Aisha and her father Abubakar to tear off pages of the written Quran to wipe off evidence.

This was probably why Abubakar had to do a new Quran while pretending that the Quran of Mohammed was lost.

At least the five times breastfeeding was recited but somehow it did not make it into the Quran edited by Zaid.

SIRTee15:
Aisha mutilated it

gaskiyamagana:
You see yourself and your scheme of tarnishing image of Islam. Hopefully, l have been able to silent you on versions of Quran of your invention in your school of ISLAMISGUIDANCE. I will be monitoring you and wherever you write about it, your failure here to make it available on net or bookstore, will be my reference.
Jump from here to another topic with which you have been PROGRAMED with your ANTI ISLAM ROBOTICAL data processing.

gaskiyamagana:
It was kept in the CHRISTIAN SCHOOL OF ISLAMISGUIDANCE, FOUNDED BY BY TENQ, WITH MAIN CAMPUS ON NAIRALAND RELIGION SECTION.

gaskiyamagana:
Super story series what?

SIRTee15:
TenQ see as this one is fighting the truth. Denying the truth won't make it false.

Take this and argue with it ....

When informed that Zaid’s text was to receive official status, Ibn Masud reacted indifferently:

Abdullah Ibn Masud said, “I recited from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs which I had perfected before Zaid Ibn Thabit had embraced Islam.” (The Codices of Ibn Mas'ud and Ubayy Ibn Ka'b, p. 66 – citing Ibn Abi Dawud’s Kitab al-Masahif, p. 17)

“I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah (saw) seventy surahs when Zaid was still a childish youth - must I now forsake what I acquired directly from the Messenger of Allah?” (Ibid., p. 15)

SIRTee15:
I also think Abu bakir and Aisha didn't feel guilty tearing off pages of the Qur'an because they knew majority of the Koran is lost anyway, so whatever they remove isn't going to change anything.

I also think aisha may have confessed to her father her long term suspicion that Muhammed sometimes fabricates Quranic verses for his convenience and not everything is from jubril.

“I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires.”

With above facts, they felt no remorse mutilating the pages of Qur'an for their own convenience.

TenQ:
What was wrong with the Quran of Quran of Abu Bakr given to Hafsa to warrant editing by Zaid Zaid bin Thabit the second time?
Let it be known that four men from the Ansars memorised (collected) the complete Quran during the lifetime of Mohammed and taught others
Sahih al-Bukhari 3758
Narrated Masruq:
`Abdullah (bin Mas`ud) was mentioned before `Abdullah bin `Amr. The latter said, "That is a man I continue to love because I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, ' Learn the recitation of the Qur'an from (any of these) four persons: `Abdullah bin Masud, Salim the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, Ubai bin Ka`b, and Mu`adh bin Jabal." I do not remember whether he mentioned Ubai first or Mu`adh.


The Quran of Abubakar and Hafsa
1. The fear of permanently losing verses due to muslims fighting wars is said to have motivated the initial collection of the Qur'an under Caliph Abu Bakr.
Sahih al-Bukhari 4986
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yamama had been killed (i.e., a number of the Prophet's Companions who fought against Musailima). (I went to him) and found `Umar bin Al- Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said (to me), "`Umar has come to me and said: "Casualties were heavy among the Qurra' of the Qur'an (i.e. those who knew the Qur'an by heart) on the day of the Battle of Yamama, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra' on other battlefields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest, you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected." I said to `Umar, "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" `Umar said, "By Allah, that is a good project." `Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which `Umar had realized." Then Abu Bakr said (to me). 'You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you, and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ). So you should search for (the fragmentary scripts of) the Qur'an and collect it in one book." By Allah If they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Qur'an. Then I said to Abu Bakr, "How will you do something which Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) did not do?" Abu Bakr replied, "By Allah, it is a good project." Abu Bakr kept on urging me to accept his idea until Allah opened my chest for what He had opened the chests of Abu Bakr and `Umar. So I started looking for the Qur'an and collecting it from (what was written on) palme stalks, thin white stones and also from the men who knew it by heart, till I found the last Verse of Surat at-Tauba (Repentance) with Abi Khuzaima Al-Ansari, and I did not find it with anybody other than him. The Verse is: 'Verily there has come unto you an Apostle (Muhammad) from amongst yourselves. It grieves him that you should receive any injury or difficulty..(till the end of Surat-Baraa' (at-Tauba) (9.128-129). Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with `Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of `Umar.

2. Then the complete manuscripts (copy) of the Qur'an remained with Abu Bakr till he died, then with `Umar till the end of his life, and then with Hafsa, the daughter of `Umar.

3. The third caliph Uthman was concerned because there were clear differences in the recitation of the Qur'an among the people. The differences were so great Uthman and his companions feared future dispute about the true Qur'an and its contents. So Uthman asked Hafsa for her copy so that a committee could write a single version of the Quran

Hafsas Quran was either not complete or it was edited and not just copied as can be observed in the hadith of Bukhari below

Sahih Bukhari Hadith 4987
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to `Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to `Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before." So `Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to `Uthman. `Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, `Abdullah bin AzZubair, Sa`id bin Al-As and `AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. `Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, `Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. `Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt.

Sahih al-Bukhari 4988
Zaid bin Thabit added, "A verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuza`ima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was):
'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23)

Questions:
1. What was wrong with the Quran of Quran of Abu Bakr given to Hafsa to warrant editing by Zaid Zaid bin Thabit the second time?
2. There were four reciters of the Quran attested by Mohammed himself, why were none of them consulted in writing the Quran of Abu Bakr and later Uthman but instead Zaid Zaid bin Thabit was commissioned for the job?
3. Do you now agree that the first and second edition of the Arabic Quran were different?


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Ohyoudidnt:
Did Ibn Masood have any complains about the compilation at Abu Bakr's request?

Lousy talk about number of breastfeeding and adults or and child are baseless. Quran 2:233 mentions 2 years not number and is for the infant baby to young toddler. All other talk is rooted in mischief so get a rest or study critically the reasons for the council's of Nicea and all excesses therein

SIRTee15:
Yes ibn Masood complained.
I already did an article on it ...read

https://www.nairaland.com/8068045/synoptic-quranic-versions-called-preservation

Ohyoudidnt:
The topic of this thread is
What Was Wrong With Abubakar's Quran: Perfect Preservation Of The Quran - Religion - Nairaland

Inform clearly if this is no longer valid.

On Zaid's completion of the collation of the Quran for the generality and purpose of this discussion called the Uthmani codex, he compared the Mushaf prepared then with the suhuf prepared during Abu Bakr's time.

He then stated:
I compared the Mushaf with those manuscripts and they did not differ in anything- Mushkil al-Athar; Hadith 2645

Ibn Ḥajar writes:
The difference between the ṣuḥuf and the muṣḥaf is that the ṣuḥuf are the separate parchment sheets on which the Qur’an was compiled during the era of Abū Bakr. They contained the surahs [chapters] separately, each surah arranged independently with its verses, but the surahs were not arranged sequentially. When they were copied and arranged in a sequence, they became a muṣḥaf

Ohyoudidnt:
Did Ibn Masood have any complains about the compilation at Abu Bakr's request?

Lousy talk about number of breastfeeding and adults or and child are baseless. Quran 2:233 mentions 2 years not number and is for the infant baby to young toddler. All other talk is rooted in mischief so get a rest or study critically the reasons for the council's of Nicea and all excesses therein

TenQ:
The issue is this:
1. If the Qur'an was collected during the lifetime of of Mohammed, why did Abubakr commission Zaid to collect the Qur'an afresh?
2. What happened to the Qur'an of Mohammed.?
3. Abubakr finally collected the complete Qur'an kept with Hafsa how come another Quran (Of Uthman) was made which updated that of Hafsa)?

gaskiyamagana:
Confused mind out of misleading and mischievous motive to make Quran the same as Bible of fallacy, fiction,false and fabrication origin as confirmed in Jeremiah 8:8.

TenQ:
We can call it a day: At least I see that answers to my questions are embarrassing to you.
Have a nice day my friend, not hard feelings.

I don't hate you nor do I dislike you. But I cannot hold my peace to see sincere people mislead by satan to Hell.

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and it is certainly NOT Islam nor Mohamed, nor Allah the God of Mohammed.
Proverbs 14:12-16
There is a way that looks right to a man, but the end is destruction!

What is so special with the Messiah?

Have a nice day sir