₦airaland Forum

gohf:
which Israel is Isaiah 53 about? If you can please sanely explain how it is about Israel..

gohf:
you want me to tell you? Are you okay? No offense but is everything okay with you? 😟

MaxInDHouse:
First of all is there any evil anywhere?
Is everything not supposed be God's work according to you?

Gabrielshow24:
😂😂😂😂😂😂.
So Israel is the MESSIAH 🤦

sonmvayina:
ok
So why are you claiming "best performing cult group"?

sonmvayina:
You are the one pressurising God to accept a human who was executed for crimes as a human sacrifice....

You see why Christianity is a big insult against God. Run from it my friend.

gohf:
and what was his crime?

sonmvayina:
Messiah means anointed king/ priest
Anointed with a special oil kept inside the arc of the covenant as part of their coronation.
Jesus was never a priest or a king. So he is not a Messiah.
God and read Isaiah 53,you will see it is not about the Messiah.
The Messiah is not coming to die...he is coming to rule as king in an era of world peace. We're men will hammer their swords into ploughshares. That has not happened.is it?
The Messiah is not coming to die for sins. God already gave the Jews the solution to the problem of sin.
Comprende??

Truthseeker10:
So are you saying that the Messiah has nothing to do with our sins?

MaxInDHouse:
The only group that is able to gather peace lovers throughout the earth and unite them to make one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

sonmvayina:
Well explained here

https://www.nairaland.com/6612275/isaiah-53-why-suffering-servant

sonmvayina:
Noooooooooo

He is a king.

What has a king got to do with sins.

The power to forgive sins rest with God. It is his commandments that is being broken.

gohf:
😂🤣 even when I read writes up in search for what is true, this is one of the most unintelligent and stupid write-ups i have read in a while.

You avoided many key points in the text you are quoting while adding your own porious view, and then attempted to patch another portion of Isaiah to chapter 53 without connecting them in anyway. That's poor, just plain horrible.

You actually called that "well explained" are you indirectly insulting my intelligence. You didn't even show without a doubt that it wasn't Jesus, your half baked statements only showed doubts while ignoring a whole lot of other texts.

What was one solid point you mentioned, you were just being a criminal to sensible reasoning. Didn't Jesus call himself their brethren, isn't he one of God's servants.

sonmvayina:
So what did you make of this portion. Is it talking about Jesus.
Did the person die and have children too...

I have told you a thousand times, Isaiah 53 is about Israel. Israel is God's servant. Isaiah told you 8 times prior to chapter 53. See chapter 45:3-7

3 And I will give you treasures of darkness, and riches hidden in secret places, in order that you know that I am the Lord Who calls [you] by your name-the Holy One of Israel.
4 For the sake of My servant Jacob, and Israel My chosen one, and I called to you by your name; I surnamed you, yet you have not known Me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God: I will strengthen you although you have not known Me.
6 In order that they know from the shining of the sun and from the west that there is no one besides Me; I am the Lord and there is no other.
7 Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these.


See the verse I bolded, Isaiah would have thought you would have read chapter 45 before 53. You see who God says is his servant? Not somebody in the future. Read it in context and find out why Isaiah wrote it.

Truthseeker10:
So will the Messiah live forever and not die when he comes?

sonmvayina:
Gather people to molest and commit all kinds of atrocities..be deceiving your self.

sonmvayina:
He is a man like me and you....not divine in any way. He will be from the line of David and through Solomon.
The two contradictory genealogies in Mathew and Luke can not produce the Messiah

gohf:
I should explain to you what you refuse to believe that through the death of Jesus, many become children of God through him, both Jesus and us have eternal life

Why not tell us how Jacob died then came back to life and had numerous children?

You are obviously incapable of understanding the Tanakh even if it is spelt right before you. Isn't Isaiah 45 about Cryus?

Oya look for another nonsense to respond to me with

Truthseeker10:
Will the Messiah die when he comes or he will live forever? Which one sir?

sonmvayina:
When his number is up ...he would die and his son will take over. By then Israel will be a monarchy....

sonmvayina:
You have not showed me where God planned the Jesus idea in the Tanakh. All these are just your opinion.

sonmvayina:
You are dummy..hahahahahha

How Jacob died?

He is talking about the Jews/Jacob/ Israel and his children....the entire Jewish nation...

gohf:
I have you are just obviously been too blind to admit it.

From the seed of the woman, to the promise from Moses, to the naming of Joshua and the appointing of Elisha by the other witness, Elijah, who stands before the anointed of God, all prophetically bearing the same name.

You call them my opinion when you refuse to read and even when you do, you convince yourself that it is a lie. Like God told Isaiah, that is looking they will not see, nor can you even hear the truth, read at plainly for you

sonmvayina:
Blasphemy and insubordination....and maybe treason.... according to the new testament.

sonmvayina:


Ok..now we are getting somewhere...

God never ordered it

He just offered himself as a sacrifice and God accepted it. Somebody who yold you that human sacrifice is an abomination will accept it.
You are being deceived, and you don't know it..

sonmvayina:
Nah...you are a dummy.
Whaaaaaat?

sonmvayina:
So it wasn't a sacrifice then?
He was executed for blasphemy and possibly treason.

So how did somebody just woke and tell you he died for your sins and you believed

Why?

sonmvayina:
It is common in Tanach [Jewish Scriptures] to refer to the nation of Israel as a single individual. For example, it says, “And the people gathered as one man” (Nehemiah 8:1). In a revealing passage, “You are My witnesses, says the Lord, and My servant whom I have chosen” (Isaiah 43:10), the subject Israel is referred to first in the plural and then in the singular.

So, about whom and what is Isaiah 53 speaking?

Starting in Isaiah 52, the prophet describes the reaction of the nations of the world when they witness[2] the future and ultimate messianic redemption of the Jewish people.

Since the nations viewed the Jewish people scornfully and considered them rejected by God and deserving of Divine suffering, they will be shocked and dumbfounded[3] when they witness God’s unexpected and glorious redemption of the Jewish people.

At this point, the nations and their leaders will be left wondering and conclude that the Jewish people did not suffer because God rejected them, as the nations mistakenly thought; instead, it was because they persecuted the Jewish people beyond what they may have deserved.[4]

This is the meaning of the passage, “he [Israel] was wounded from our [the nations] transgression and bruised from our [the nations’] iniquities” (Isaiah 53:5). Israel suffered from the mistreatment of the nations.

In English translations of this chapter, Christians mistranslate the prefix [מ] as “for” rather than “from.” This manipulates the text to sound as if the servant will suffer for the sins of the Jewish people. Fortunately, some Christian translations, such as the New Oxford Annotated Bible, have acknowledged and corrected this mistake.

The idea that the Jewish people suffered from or because of the nations’ misdeeds is substantiated in the passage, “For the transgress of my [the nation’s] people they [למו–lamow, i.e., the Jewish people] were stricken” (Isaiah 53:cool. The word [למו] is biblical Hebrew and is a plural word as in, “a statute that He gave [למו] to them” (Psalms 99:7). Missionaries incorrectly translated this word as “he” in Isaiah 53:7 to make it sound as if “he was stricken” and therefore speaking about a single individual, i.e., Jesus.

Furthermore, Christian missionaries incorrectly change the role of the messiah from a physical human redeemer from oppression and exile to a spiritual [divine] savior from sin.

Although all Jewish commentators believe that the straightforward identification of the servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel,[5] some, on an allegorical level, identify the servant as the messiah. They do so because, as a member of the Jewish people, the messiah can bear the responsibility to alleviate a portion of the punishment on behalf of the rest of the nation.[6]

A similar example of this concept is found in Numbers 4:19-20, where the children of Kehat bear the responsibility of carrying the Ark, at considerable risk to themselves, on behalf of the rest of the nation, so no one else would die. Amazingly, just before Isaiah 53, Israel is referred to as “bearers of the vessels of the Lord” (Isaiah 52:11).

In contrast to Christian belief, no Jewish commentary claims that the messiah will die for our sins or that we need to believe in, or even know about him, to benefit from his suffering. Even without our knowledge, the messiah’s suffering, as well as the suffering of other righteous Jews, can alleviate some portion of the nation’s suffering.

It is also noteworthy that under the influence of paganism, the early Christians also transformed the messiah into a deity. The Christian beliefs that the messiah dies for our sins and is divine are foreign to Judaism and not based on the Tanach.

I have attempted to present a brief overview of Isaiah 53 and how missionaries distort the original text to fit Jesus into the picture.[7] This overview also demonstrates the danger of reading passages or a chapter out of context.[8]

As King Solomon wisely stated, “The first to present his argument sounds correct, until someone cross-examines him” (Proverbs 18:17)

Truthseeker10:
Can you kindly quote the verse where you got this information?

sonmvayina:
Messiah means anointed king/ priest
Anointed with a special oil kept inside the arc of the covenant as part of their coronation.
Jesus was never a priest or a king. So he is not a Messiah.
God and read Isaiah 53,you will see it is not about the Messiah.
The Messiah is not coming to die...he is coming to rule as king in an era of world peace. We're men will hammer their swords into ploughshares. That has not happened.is it?
The Messiah is not coming to die for sins. God already gave the Jews the solution to the problem of sin.
Comprende??

gohf:
so now you can actually see Jesus didn't commit an abomination before God.

You need to wake up and read and study your scriptures, was there a promise of a new covenant? Even the Isaiah 49 or which one, God promised to give this seed, this servant as a covenant.

I think it's pathetic that you think when God promised Abraham that his seed would be a blessing to the nations, you thought it was Israel the very nations God divided and left only Judah (+Benjamin) and the Jews were not any blessing to any other nation not to speak of nations. 🤣 so it's the Jews that would bring the gentiles into God's house.

When I said you lack understanding of the Tanakh it wasn't a jest

gohf:
you are a shameless liar

The Jews don't believe that they are the Messiah

They are looking for the coming Messiah who not according to your nonsense coming in an era of peace, but to come deliver them from their enemies and bring peace to them.

Guy you are shaming Judaism, to them the Messiah is a warrior who will make Israel great again

Jesus was not a king yet they crucified for being king of the Jews