₦airaland Forum

mbaise1000:
I will answer you like this: I believe that personally God created me to live a good life and that I am among THOSE that He wrote their name in the book of life from the foundation of the world, and I know that there are things required of THOSE, and I am doing THOSE things and having in mind that there are things I am supposed to avoid, though it is not easy, but that is my hope, I decide to push on, it's a choice, I made, that's free will.
another person may decide to live anyhow, and not follow that way that leads to that salvation, and believe whatever he WANTS, it's his choice, and this person certainly must have heard that there is a way to live to be SAVED, that is why Jesus Said that the gospel must be preached to the end of the earth before the world, that it will be a witness against THOSE that does not believe.

Try thinking for yourself, don’t regurgitate what you have been told.
See, If he is all knowing and is the beginning to end, you have no freewill.

In your bible, it says seek knowledge not BELIEFS.

Maynman:
Try thinking for yourself, don’t regurgitate what you have been told.
See, If he is all knowing and is the beginning to end, you have no freewill.

In your bible, it says seek knowledge not BELIEFS.

Do you believe what the bible say? And who created you? How DID you get here?

mbaise1000:
Do you believe what the bible say? And who created you? How DID you get here?

Why do i need to believe a book?
My parents gave birth to me.

Why do you believe a book?

mbaise1000:
Will you agree that God knows exactly those who will be saved even BEFORE they are born?

I will leave all what you wrote above to other readers on whether it is reasonable or not. As for me how you explain freewill to Yahweh hardening Pharaoh’s heart(predetermination) sounds absurd.

Caveatemptor:
Oga,
I am not the entity claiming omnipotence . Stop comparing mortal beings to self claimed omnipotent beings. The concept of an omnipotent being taking a rest is ridiculous. The concept of an omniscient entity having regrets and being sad because of his actions is just so absurd!

Do you not hear the unreasonability of your words?

Does a caterpiller stop being strong because it is resting?

Is God not a "Being" entitled to His Rest if He so chooses?

You are just plain unreasonable and evil. I bet if you had servants you will work them to death

Dtruthspeaker:
Do you not hear the unreasonability of your words?

Does a caterpiller stop being strong because it is resting?

Is God not a "Being" entitled to His Rest if He so chooses?

You can just plain unreasonable and evil. I bet if you had servants you will work them to death

See an omniscient entity regretting its actions. Plain absurdity!!!

Caveatemptor:
See an omniscient entity regretting its actions. Plain absurdity!!!

See how you have now shifted post from omnipotennce and rest to omniscient and anger and regret because you don't have anything valid.

And i'll still answer it and you still will not have any valid thing to say.

If you have a child, then you are omniscient enough to know that your child will pass or fail common entrance and yet you will be very angry or happy when he fails or passes the common entrance after all you have done for her, even though you knew.

So, it is very very understandable why God will regret

Dtruthspeaker:
See how you have now shifted post from omnipotennce and rest to omniscient and anger and regret because you don't have anything valid.

And i'll still answer it and you still will not have any valid thing to say.

If you have a child, then you are omniscient enough to know that your child will pass or fail common entrance and yet you will be very angry or happy when he fails or passes the common entrance after all you have done for her, even though you knew.

So, it is very very understandable why God will regret

How is this entity omniscient?

Genesis 3:9

Caveatemptor:
How is this entity omniscient?

Genesis 3:9

This is where you learn beware of the silence of The Lord. for.His Omniscientness and Power is exercised at His Will, exactly as we ask our children "where are you coming from?" and we know but we asked them anyway.

Veecruz:
Now you have moved post from saying "God did not know,".

They didn't need to know what is good or bad but they certainly knew that they were supposed to have continued obeying God. So no case.

Okay
Thanks for your input .

confusedlady:
There is only one creation story in Genesis. Chapter one explains the creation of everything on a broad scale,while chapter two explains the creation story more in detail. The two chapters are an inter relationship of each other. Chapter two explains Chapter one in detail.
As for the second question God knows everything. He is omniscient. Every human created has a free will to choose right or wrong.

Okay
Thanks.

TheMadame:
Good day brothers and sisters,
I have always been interested in why there appear to be two different creation stories in the book of Genesis.
One story is recorded in Genesis chapter one and the other story is recorded in Genesis chapter 2.
In the Genesis chapter one story the Almighty omnipotent and omniscient God wills everything into existence, while in the account in Genesis Chapter two,God appears to be more closer to his creations and appears not to be so omniscient .

These are myths plagiarised from earlier myths from ancient Babylonian Civilisations that existed long before the Bible was cobbled together. The two creation stories in Genesis chapters 1&2 are written by two different writers. If you study the two chapters carefully you notice that the writing style and composure are vastly different. One writer talks about the creation being the work of the Eloihim while the second creation story is credited to Yahweh. These are two different deities in fact the Go's El is a superior God to Yahweh but some how over the course of history the Jews replaced El with Yahweh as the main God of Israel.
My point is that these two creation stories which have their source in ancient Babylon are written bu two different unknown authors. The compiler / editor of the book of Genesis decided in his wisdom to join the two stories in one book as if they are a continuous story.
These are two different stories describing a single event from different perspectives of two different writers.
Once you understand this point the mystery disappears. There are no originals of these Bible stories that are stories that have been translated,copied,re-copied,edited,redacted and mistranslated ad nauseam. These are basically the words and thoughts of humans passed off mischievously as the infallible words of a God for mind control.

Goosethetruth:
These are myths plagiarised from earlier myths from ancient Babylonian Civilisations that existed long before the Bible was cobbled together. The two creation stories in Genesis chapters 1&2 are written by two different writers...

So because CNN reports Benue murders before NTA, the report is a myth?

Secondly, you admit that the bible was compiled, does that not tell you that it means that they their own report is independent, especially as the report flows from 1,2,3,... different from the Babylon accounts which are even suspected of being created for the purposes of making people like you think the way you are?

Dtruthspeaker:
So because CNN reports Benue murders before NTA, the report is a myth?

Secondly, you admit that the bible was compiled, does that not tell you that it means that they their own report is independent, especially as the report flows from 1,2,3,... different from the Babylon accounts which are even suspected of being created for the purposes of making people like you think the way you are?

Educate yourself and stop running all over the thread constituting a nuisance.
My last response to you.

Goosethetruth:
These are myths plagiarised from earlier myths from ancient Babylonian Civilisations that existed long before the Bible was cobbled together. The two creation stories in Genesis chapters 1&2 are written by two different writers. If you study the two chapters carefully you notice that the writing style and composure are vastly different. One writer talks about the creation being the work of the Eloihim while the second creation story is credited to Yahweh. These are two different deities in fact the Go's El is a superior God to Yahweh but some how over the course of history the Jews replaced El with Yahweh as the main God of Israel.
My point is that these two creation stories which have their source in ancient Babylon are written bu two different unknown authors. The compiler / editor of the book of Genesis decided in his wisdom to join the two stories in one book as if they are a continuous story.
These are two different stories describing a single event from different perspectives of two different writers.
Once you understand this point the mystery disappears. There are no originals of these Bible stories that are stories that have been translated,copied,re-copied,edited,redacted and mistranslated ad nauseam. These are basically the words and thoughts of humans passed off mischievously as the infallible words of a God for mind control.

Interesting take. Thanks a lot.
My conclusion on this issue two years ago before the fanatics took over and tried to derail the thread was that almost every ancient civilisation has this creation stories in one form or the other because mankind always try to explain their etymology.
So it would not be a strange thing if these oral traditions and myths were copied from each other.

Thank you for your take on the issue and the enlightenment. Appreciated.

Goosethetruth:
Educate yourself and stop running all over the thread constituting a nuisance.
My last response to you.

Making valid arguments is also a means of education. So if you believe that your position is right then you have a duty to rebut any counter argument.

But you know it would not stand the tests of Truth hence why you are being derogatory

TheMadame:
Interesting take. Thanks a lot.
My conclusion on this issue two years ago before the fanatics took over and tried to derail the thread was that almost every ancient civilisation has this creation stories in one form or the other because mankind always try to explain their etymology.
So it would not be a strange thing if these oral traditions and myths were copied from each other.

Thank you for your take on the issue and the enlightenment. Appreciated.

Read up on the writers of the Bible OT. Scholars who dedicate their lives to study of the Christian Bible have found that these books were written by various writers and edited and named by those who cobbled the Bible together.

You may like to ask yourself if it is possible for Moses ro have written the book of Deuteronomy and then recorded his OWN DEATH in Chapter 34 verse 5 ?

The simple logical truth is that the editors and compilers of the books of the Bible just decided to affix names of religious leaders to these books. It doesn't mean the person whose name is affixed to a book wrote it.

There is no evidence that the gospels were written by people named Mark,Matthew,Luke and John. The editors and compilers of the Bible who were the early leaders of the Church decided to affix these names to these books because they were names of disciples of Jesus.
Close study of these gospels shows that they are just clever copies of each other with each individual writers embellishments to push individual ideologies and agenda's.

TheMadame:
Interesting take. Thanks a lot.
My conclusion on this issue two years ago before the fanatics took over and tried to derail the thread was that almost every ancient civilisation has this creation stories in one form or the other because mankind always try to explain their etymology.
So it would not be a strange thing if these oral traditions and myths were copied from each other.

Thank you for your take on the issue and the enlightenment. Appreciated.

So as Linda Ikeji, Nairaland, Punch, CNN, Al-Jazeera etc report the same news, therefore they must have copied from someone, does that make sense?

Goosethetruth:
Read up on the writers of the Bible OT. Scholars who dedicate their lives to study of the Christian Bible have found that these books were written by various writers and edited and named by those who cobbled the Bible together.

You may like to ask yourself if it is possible for Moses ro have written the book of Deuteronomy and then recorded his OWN DEATH in Chapter 34 verse 5 ?

The simple logical truth is that the editors and compilers of the books of the Bible just decided to affix names of religious leaders to these books. It doesn't mean the person whose name is affixed to a book wrote it.

There is no evidence that the gospels were written by people named Mark,Matthew,Luke and John. The editors and compilers of the Bible who were the early leaders of the Church decided to affix these names to these books because they were names of disciples of Jesus.
Close study of these gospels shows that they are just clever copies of each other with each individual writers embellishments to push individual ideologies and agenda's.

People may not be able to conclusively state which human wrote the bible. But what is clearly evidenced is that it is written by Person/persons, Who/who was there at the time the reported events occurred.

And persons named Mark,Matthew,Luke and John or whatsoever names they might have had where with the Person called Jesus Christ.
That is the bottom certain line.

Dtruthspeaker:
People may not be able to conclusively state which human wrote the bible. But what is clearly evidenced is that it is written by Person/persons, Who/who was there at the time the reported events occurred.

And persons named Mark,Matthew,Luke and John or whatsoever names they might have had where with the Person called Jesus Christ.
That is the bottom certain line.

None of the purported writers of the gospels were witnesses to the events they wrote upon. That is why even though the four gospels inserted I'm the Bible are clever copies of each other the writers super-imposed their own agenda and believe over the message of Jesus.
In fact it may be argued that Paul had a more close encounter with the message of Jesus on the road to Damascus than the writers of the gospels who did not know Jesus but relied on hearsay and oral tradition about the activities of Jesus more than 50 years later.
None of the writers of the gospels were witnesses. Stop misleading people!

Goosethetruth:
None of the purported writers of the gospels were witnesses to the events they wrote upon. That is why even though the four gospels inserted I'm the Bible are clever copies of each other the writers super-imposed their own agenda and believe over the message of Jesus.
In fact it may be argued that Paul had a more close encounter with the message of Jesus on the road to Damascus than the writers of the gospels who did not know Jesus but relied on hearsay and oral tradition about the activities of Jesus more than 50 years later.
None of the writers of the gospels were witnesses. Stop misleading people!

If you accept Paul's report, then you would have seen that Paul corroborates the reports of the disciples for even his own story starts on the basis of a disciple.

So, if you accept Paul then you must accept the disciples and their corroborating testimony.

And since you allege that none of the disciples were witnesses to Christ and all, I would like to see what proof
you have of them and I hope you are not going to say that it was the Romans who created it. That proposition was bursted.

Dtruthspeaker:
If you accept Paul's report, then you would have seen that Paul corroborates the reports of the disciples for even his own story starts on the basis of a disciple.

So, if you accept Paul then you must accept the disciples and their corroborating testimony.

And since you allege that none of the disciples were witnesses to Christ and all, I would like to see what proof
you have of them and I hope you are not going to say that it was the Romans who created it. That proposition was bursted.

I am not accepting any of the reported accounts of the Jesus ministry as being true.
Not Mark,Matthew,Luke,John or even Paul. I am simply saying that based on the writers ups Paul who claimed to have had a visionary encounter with Jesus that left him blinded on the road to Damascus had a more close hand message about Jesus ministry than the purported writers of Mathew,Mark,Luke and John because they were never witnesses to the events they reported. They relied on oral traditions and hear say,In fact John states this clearly at the end of his own account of Jesus ministry that he was not a witness to the events he reported on.
On the other hand Paul claims to have had a personal encounter with the spiritual Jesus on the road to Damascus. In fact Paul talks about this spiritual encounter in most of his missives.

Below text is quoted from the last chapter of the gospel of John which confirms from John's own hand that he was not a witness to the events but relied on hearsay from others.
👇👇👇👇👇



24This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]

Dtruthspeaker:
So as Linda Ikeji, Nairaland, Punch, CNN, Al-Jazeera etc report the same news, therefore they must have copied from someone, does that make sense?

Ancient Babylonian first kingdom existed around the years 1894 to 1595 BC.

How rational human being could equate this time frame and dissemination of information with 2025 of Nairaland and Linda Ikeji or CNN just beats me hollow.


During these times and era few people were literate and messages were written painstakingly by hand.
Nowadays with a click of a button I am submitting this post and you are comparing it to men writing of tablets of stone and cuneiform.

TheMadame:
Ancient Babylonian first kingdom existed around the years 1894 to 1595 BC.

How rational human being could equate this time frame and dissemination of information with 2025 of Nairaland and Linda Ikeji or CNN just beats me hollow.

During these times and era few people were literate and messages were written painstakingly by hand.
Nowadays with a click of a button I am submitting this post and you are comparing it to men writing of tablets of stone and cuneiform.

I believe you get my point for CNN is older than Al Jazeera and Arise tv yet my question still stands that do you say since all of them report the same news therefore they must have copied from somebody?

Secondly, did writing and literacy start in Babylon and were they the only people in the whole world who could write?

Goosethetruth:
I am not accepting any of the reported accounts of the Jesus ministry as being true.
Not Mark,Matthew,Luke,John or even Paul. I am simply saying that based on the writers ups Paul who claimed to have had a visionary encounter with Jesus that left him blinded on the road to Damascus had a more close hand message about Jesus ministry than the purported writers of Mathew,Mark,Luke and John because they were never witnesses to the events they reported. They relied on oral traditions and hear say,In fact John states this clearly at the end of his own account of Jesus ministry that he was not a witness to the events he reported on.
On the other hand Paul claims to have had a personal encounter with the spiritual Jesus on the road to Damascus. In fact Paul talks about this spiritual encounter in most of his missives.

Acts 5:32 and Acts 10:39 directly tells us that they were witnesses which is what their direct testimonies in their books also prove.

So, I am definitely interested in seeing what made you think that they were not present when all these things happened for I thoroughly examined their reports and i did not find any thing that was out of place.

So, what did you find that made you think that they were not there to witness these things?

Goosethetruth:
Below text is quoted from the last chapter of the gospel of John which confirms from John's own hand that he was not a witness to the events but relied on hearsay from others.
👇👇👇👇👇


24This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]

This statement is saying that he wrote these things. Even Google A.I is saying so

AI Overview+2
John 21:24 serves as a concluding statement in the Gospel of John, affirming that the disciple who wrote the book, traditionally identified a[b]s John, is the one who testified to the events described [/b]and that his testimony is true. It emphasizes the reliability of the Gospel as an eyewitness account and a true record of Jesus' life and ministry.

So you are in error

Dtruthspeaker:
I believe you get my point for CNN is older than Al Jazeera and Arise tv yet my question still stands that do you say since all of them report the same news therefore they must have copied from somebody?

Secondly, did writing and literacy start in Babylon and were they the only people in the whole world who could write?

You need to really educate yourself.
Learn about the history of reading and writing and stop comparing this computer age of clicks to an age where few people were literate and writing was done by hand painstakingly on tablets of rock and cuneiform. I expect this to fly over your head as usual.

TheMadame:
Please can someone enlighten on why there appear to be two creation stories?
Why God did not know that man~Adam and Eve would eat from the forbidden fruit,when they lacked the knowledge of good and bad. Or was it freewill at work?
I would appreciate answers from those who are more enlightened.
Thank you.

If you would like to understand the genesis account of creation, this is a good place for you to start engaging.👇
Uncover The Bible’s Hidden Secrets In Day 1 To Day 7 Of Creation https://www.nairaland.com/8416146/uncover-bibles-hidden-secrets-day

Dtruthspeaker:
This statement is saying that he wrote these things. Even Google A.I is saying so

AI Overview+2
John 21:24 serves as a concluding statement in the Gospel of John, affirming that the disciple who wrote the book, traditionally identified a[b]s John, is the one who testified to the events described [/b]and that his testimony is true. It emphasizes the reliability of the Gospel as an eyewitness account and a true record of Jesus' life and ministry.

So you are in error

You and the Ai you are relying on have obvious comprehension issues.
This is why I seldom rely on Ai because it is easy to decieve and mostly comprehends what the questioner wants it to say.

Go back to the beginning of the Chapter. This verse is talking about the disciple whom Jesus loved who is actually the source of the story the person claiming to be John wrote as a gospel.
Read to understand. The passage is not written in Greek or Latin.

Dtruthspeaker:
Acts 5:32 and Acts 10:39 directly tells us that they were witnesses which is what their direct testimonies in their books also prove.

So, I am definitely interested in seeing what made you think that they were not present when all these things happened for I thoroughly examined their reports and i did not find any thing that was out of place.

So, what did you find that made you think that they were not there to witness these things?

So because the illiterate fishermen witnessed the ministry of Jesus,it means they constructed and wrote the complex stories in the gospels of Mark,Matthew,Luke and John in Greek when their native language was Aramaic?

Lol...😁😁
Don't worry, although I know the indoctrination is deep I am ready to lead you deeper down the rabbit hole.
You must see the light.

BibleInterpreta:
If you would like to understand the genesis account of creation, this is a good place for you to start engaging.👇
Uncover The Bible’s Hidden Secrets In Day 1 To Day 7 Of Creation https://www.nairaland.com/8416146/uncover-bibles-hidden-secrets-day

Bible interpreter,
You are not interpreting ANYTHING.
All what you wrote on your thread is just a bundle of confusion.
Please join me to wait for those who know better than me and you.
Bible explanation should be straight forward,concise and not shady or opaque.

Let me and you sit on one side and let those who know more than me and you explain these mysteries.
There is no shame in saying I don't know