₦airaland Forum

Been a long while since I tried to reason with the people of Nairaland. Partly because there was no visible result, partly because I was learning so many new things that made plenty of my previous knowledge seem dumb in certain ways, even while the core concepts still seemed correct to me.

In all my days of argument and till now, I keep marveling at the possibility of atheism. Like fr fr, you just don't see any reason to believe in the existence of a God? Mehnn!

I found some YouTube videos and copied their transcripts. They're long, but it's something I think Christians and atheists might want to read when they have a lot of free time. Might spark some thoughts:

All (Popular) Arguments For God
[https://www.nairaland.com/8477516/all-arguments-existence-god-explained]

All (Popular) Arguments Against God
[https://www.nairaland.com/8477542/all-atheist-arguments-explained#136141320]

budaatum:
https://www.nairaland.com/4923036/learn-reason-critically#74146576

Okay, and?

(Insert random words to match character limit)

PulsingPurple:
Okay, and?

(Insert random words to match character limit)

And, critically reason, or learn to.

13 more characters needed.

budaatum:
And, critically reason, or learn to.

13 more characters needed.

I don't think I see where exactly you're headed.

I mean, if you're asking me to "critically reason", I have, I can, I'm still learning.

But what's the point of saying this? I don't really get.

PulsingPurple:
I don't think I see where exactly you're headed.

I mean, if you're asking me to "critically reason", I have, I can, I'm still learning.

But what's the point of saying this? I don't really get.

I couldn't figure out the point of your opening post neither, but reserved you the right to post it knowing readers will make of it what they want just as you should make what you want of what I've posted, which you ought to be able to do if you reason critically.

As to where one is headed, perhaps concentrate on where you are first.

budaatum:
I couldn't figure out the point of your opening post neither either, but reserved you the right to post it knowing readers will make of it what they want just as you should make what you want of what I've posted, which you ought to be able to do if you reason critically.

As to where one is headed, perhaps concentrate on where you are first.

There, you could have just said this at once. 😂
I understand the thrill of beating around the bush too, I don't blame you.

I think you might want to read the OP again.
I:
1. Gave a little background info
2. Expressed my little thought
3. Referred you to two videos I found (transcribed and posted), with hopes that you might find something that stirs a thought in you, possibly leading to the "Critical Reasoning".

Maybe you expected me to make a presentation of my reasonings or set the stage for people to present their thoughts, that wasn't my objective.

The idea was critical reasoning with/by yourself.

For the last line of your sentence, I believe anyone who claims to have some form of reasoning (not necessarily critical) should have been able to understand the message I passed. If so we wouldn't be stuck in this conversation.

I not only read your op, I went and read other threads you have begun here and found nothing to engage me, but this thread had you mention critical reasoning, and is the only thing of interest to me in it and hence my addition to your thread.

Now, as an atheist, I not only see no reason to believe in the existence of gods, I have sufficient knowledge to know its like believing you have a million pounds in your bank account at this very moment. But I am not that concerned, since you are not telling me to believe what you believe.

PulsingPurple:
There, you could have just said this at once. 😂
I understand the thrill of beating around the bush too, I don't blame you.

I think you might want to read the OP again.
I:
1. Gave a little background info
2. Expressed my little thought
3. Referred you to two videos I found (transcribed and posted), with hopes that you might find something that stirs a thought in you, possibly leading to the "Critical Reasoning".

Maybe you expected me to make a presentation of my reasonings or set the stage for people to present their thoughts, that wasn't my objective.

The idea was critical reasoning with/by yourself.

For the last line of your sentence, I believe anyone who claims to have some form of reasoning (not necessarily critical) should have been able to understand the message I passed. If so we wouldn't be stuck in this conversation.

budaatum:
I not only read your op, I went and read other threads you have begun here and found nothing to engage me, but this thread had you mention critical reasoning, and is the only thing of interest to me in it and hence my addition to your thread.

Now, as an atheist, I not only see no reason to believe in the existence of gods, I have sufficient knowledge to know its like believing you have a million pounds in your bank account at this very moment. But I am not that concerned, since you are not telling me to believe what you believe.

I see, understand and consider your points valid (to you).
I think there's something about people not understanding English sometimes tho, jk. 😅
(You might want to take some time to digest that no one presented the certainty of content that will stir critical reasoning. I emphasized PROBABILITY, not CERTAINTY).

Sentence in bold, nailed it proper. 🤝

PulsingPurple:
The idea was critical reasoning with/by yourself.

I find it funny you'd be teaching me this, but that's Nairaland I guess.

Your threads show someone willing to consider both sides of the theist-atheist argument while seeking answers for yourself, which is refreshing, and biblical, dare I say.

Do let me know what you find when you do find. I'd be interested.

budaatum:
Now, as an atheist, I not only see no reason to believe in the existence of gods, I have sufficient knowledge to know its like believing you have a million pounds in your bank account at this very moment. But I am not that concerned, since you are not telling me to believe what you believe.

Reasoning, would have told you that you don't even need a reason to believe or not believe.

For example, like your example "I now believe that cars don't exist". Oya, prove me wrong!

Belief is free to the point that you don't even need a reason to believe exactly how Nigerians even vote politicians they don't even know

PulsingPurple:
Been a long while since I tried to reason with the people of Nairaland. Partly because there was no visible result, partly because I was learning so many new things that made plenty of my previous knowledge seem dumb in certain ways, even while the core concepts still seemed correct to me.

In all my days of argument and till now, I keep marveling at the possibility of atheism. Like fr fr, you just don't see any reason to believe in the existence of a God? Mehnn!

I found some YouTube videos and copied their transcripts. They're long, but it's something I think Christians and atheists might want to read when they have a lot of free time. Might spark some thoughts:

All (Popular) Arguments For God
[https://www.nairaland.com/8477516/all-arguments-existence-god-explained]

All (Popular) Arguments Against God
[https://www.nairaland.com/8477542/all-atheist-arguments-explained#136141320]

Whoa! A theist putting religion and critical thinking in the same sentence? Wonders,they say,shall never end.
Are you sure you are ready for this debate?
Because I don't want to start a debate and you start quoting from your lie-filled,self-contradictory and misleading book

Dtruthspeaker:
Reasoning, would have told you that you don't even need a reason to believe or not believe.

For example, like your example "I now believe that cars don't exist". Oya, prove me wrong!

Belief is free to the point that you don't even need a reason to believe exactly how Nigerians even vote politicians they don't even know

Cars exist. What's your point?

jaephoenix:
Cars exist. What's your point?

Let's play!

No,, cars don't exist!

Dtruthspeaker:
Let's play!

No,, cars don't exist!

Why do you think so

jaephoenix:
Why do you think so

I don't see them.

Dtruthspeaker:
I don't see them.

What are those 4 wheeled mobile structures u see in the road called

People do argue for different reasons so we can't judge if someone unseen exists or not through human arguments since each person will keep on heading towards his or her own preferred destination during such arguments.

What approach can be helpful?

First of all God is a spirit according to all religions claiming belief in God so let's borrow a leaf from that.

Atheists do say they can't believe in what they can't see yet these same people claim they believe in science and their reason they say because it's logical.

So when scientists told us that there is a dead star in space (invisible) and called it "blackholes" their evidence is not in the sight of this object rather it's the reaction of objects around it. Please if humans from history till today have all believe in the existence of unseen supernatural beings and offering sacred service in all known ancient world where does that leave us?

According to the Bible (a book written by ancient Israelites) there are many spirits in the spirit realm: heaven (unseen yet certain destination of the supernaturals) that means these unseen beings can have effect on us positively or negatively depending on what they choose to do.
Now we have a clue on reason why people in all traditions offer sacred service to these unseen beings it's either seeking their approval or fearful not to displeasing them.

Another point is in all traditions there is this idea of the SUPREME BEING who is above all other spirits in some traditions this supreme being can punish any of the supernaturals for their actions and inactions and there the Bible also revealed that there was a time one of these supernaturals decided to dwell with the descendants of Jacob helping them to secure a place called "Canaan"

That is what made the Jews popular till today as their ancestors were worshipers of this God.

There is no God in any of the nations that has made any promise regarding our time except the God of ancient Jews and so far most of His promises have come through including what he foretold regarding our time.

So LOGICALLY a right thinking person will agree that all these couldn't have been a coincidence something strange is happening that we need to figure out about these God/Gods!

budaatum:
I find it funny you'd be teaching me this, but that's Nairaland I guess.

Your threads show someone willing to consider both sides of the theist-atheist argument while seeking answers for yourself, which is refreshing, and biblical, dare I say.

Do let me know what you find when you do find. I'd be interested.

For the sentence in bold, remember contexts Bosso. You can't quote a person out of context especially when the full stuff is easily traceable.
In fact, I'm sorry for making it seem like I was attempting to teach Nairalanders how to reason critically. That's not even something I specialise in at all.

There's another thing called "Logical Reasoning". I'd rather discuss with/push for people who have that capacity.

Then... I'm not confused, I'm just an open-minded Christian. I believe there's fun in looking at knowledge and entertaining yourself without needing to change your stance.

Check grammar and give me potential errors I might be making (not trying to rephrase me):
Edit: Didn't want to totally remove this part. This was me grammar checking with ChatGPT before posting.

Then again, don't be confused about my stance. I find no argument against God valid.
Leave Christianity, just drop a standard well laid-out argument against the existence of a creator that fits the dimensions of a "God", it barely makes sense without contradicting itself.
The only thing that would even come close to making sense is the idea that since there's no scientific proof, there's no reason to believe. And this starts to fall apart when you consider the plenty things that science can't explain, simply because it's beyond the scope of the "science" available at the moment.
Even then, there's proof to some of the supernatural occurrences from biblical stories so if we want to follow the law of implication... All this is my own opinion.

So what I found? God.

jaephoenix:
Whoa! A theist putting religion and critical thinking in the same sentence? Wonders,they say,shall never end.
Are you sure you are ready for this debate?
Because I don't want to start a debate and you start quoting from your lie-filled,self-contradictory and misleading book

1. Where did you see Religion and Critical Thinking in the same sentence? 😂
I think there's something about people who want to spark an argument... Quick to use certain tones, quote people out of context, taking the offensive, drawing conclusions from dust, to say the least. Which leads to a second point.

2. No one asked you for a debate.
I don't care how long you've been on Nairaland dragging with secondary school children and people who derive a certain highness from arguing here (you included), I've been there, but now I'd rather spend all my time talking about the unnecessary things (like what I'm doing now) instead of proceeding into the supposed "debate".
If you're looking into a conversation about things like this (with anyone at all) and you're close-minded, lack logical reasoning, specialise in Point Blank Fallacy, then I believe you're just out to vent or mock or show off whatever knowledge you have.
And then again if you're looking into a conversation about these things with someone who doesn't have an open mind, capacity to respond logically, who believe his points must always stand—point blank, then I believe you're out to waste your own time and you already know from the start.

PulsingPurple:
I find no argument against God valid.

And that's okay. Its like finding no argument against believing a million pounds is in ones pocket. Until one checks of course so one may actually know, or until one needs to pay someone it for a purchase.

What amuses me is how the gods mostly worshipped by Nigerians are all foreign, with not many believing in the existence of Sopona or Ogun or Amadioha. It shows how powerful books can be, and how permeable some minds are.

budaatum:
And that's okay. Its like finding no argument against .

I believe everyone has a right to his own opinion.
You gave your opinion earlier and I totally respect it too.

MaxInDHouse:
People do argue for different reasons so we can't judge if someone unseen exists or not through human arguments since each person will keep on heading towards his or her own preferred destination during such arguments.

What approach can be helpful?

First of all God is a spirit according to all religions claiming belief in God so let's borrow a leaf from that.

Atheists do say they can't believe in what they can't see yet these same people claim they believe in science and their reason they say because it's logical.

So when scientists told us that there is a dead star in space (invisible) and called it "blackholes" their evidence is not in the sight of this object rather it's the reaction of objects around it. Please if humans from history till today have all believe in the existence of unseen supernatural beings and offering sacred service in all known ancient world where does that leave us?

According to the Bible (a book written by ancient Israelites) there are many spirits in the spirit realm: heaven (unseen yet certain destination of the supernaturals) that means these unseen beings can have effect on us positively or negatively depending on what they choose to do.
Now we have a clue on reason why people in all traditions offer sacred service to these unseen beings it's either seeking their approval or fearful not to displeasing them.

Another point is in all traditions there is this idea of the SUPREME BEING who is above all other spirits in some traditions this supreme being can punish any of the supernaturals for their actions and inactions and there the Bible also revealed that there was a time one of these supernaturals decided to dwell with the descendants of Jacob helping them to secure a place called "Canaan"

That is what made the Jews popular till today as their ancestors were worshipers of this God.

There is no God in any of the nations that has made any promise regarding our time except the God of ancient Jews and so far most of His promises have come through including what he foretold regarding our time.

So LOGICALLY a right thinking person will agree that all these couldn't have been a coincidence something strange is happening that we need to figure about these God/Gods!

This is how u know someone that learns science from his pastor.
We cannot see black holes but we feel them.While you can't directly see a black hole due to their nature of not emitting or reflecting light, they can be indirectly observed by their effects on surrounding matter and space. Specifically, the intense gravity of a black hole warps spacetime, causes nearby matter to heat up and emit radiation, and can bend light from distant objects.
Does ur god have such characters? No.
Also ancient humans worshipped rain,flood etc cos they didn't understand nature. And they think all those phenomena were caused by gods. Does it mean they were right?
U have no idea what logical reasoning is
Does it mean

PulsingPurple:
For the sentence in bold, remember contexts Bosso. You can't quote a person out of context especially when the full stuff is easily traceable.
In fact, I'm sorry for making it seem like I was attempting to teach Nairalanders how to reason critically. That's not even something I specialise in at all.

There's another thing called "Logical Reasoning". I'd rather discuss with/push for people who have that capacity.

Then... I'm not confused, I'm just an open-minded Christian. I believe there's fun in looking at knowledge and entertaining yourself without needing to change your stance.

Check grammar and give me potential errors I might be making (not trying to rephrase me):

Then again, don't be confused about my stance. I find no argument against God valid.
Leave Christianity, just drop a standard well laid-out argument against the existence of a creator that fits the dimensions of a "God", it barely makes sense without contradicting itself.
The only thing that would even come close to making sense is the idea that since there's no scientific proof, there's no reason to believe. And this starts to fall apart when you consider the plenty things that science can't explain, simply because it's beyond the scope of the "science" available at the moment.
Even then, there's proof to some of the supernatural occurrences from biblical stories so if we want to follow the law of implication... All this is my own opinion.

So what I found? God.

First things first, do you have evidence of this god?

jaephoenix:
First things first, do you have evidence of this god?

First things first, I believe the person I quoted saw my message and replied sufficiently already. You don't have to step in.

Secondly, I wasn't talking about a "god".

Thirdly, I think you should focus on the reply I made for you specifically, especially the second point there.

jaephoenix:
This is how u know someone that learns science from his pastor.
We cannot see black holes but we feel them.While you can't directly see a black hole due to their nature of not emitting or reflecting light, they can be indirectly observed by their effects on surrounding matter and space. Specifically, the intense gravity of a black hole warps spacetime, causes nearby matter to heat up and emit radiation, and can bend light from distant objects.
Does ur god have such characters? No.
Also ancient humans worshipped rain,flood etc cos they didn't understand nature. And they think all those phenomena were caused by gods. Does it mean they were right?
U have no idea what logical reasoning is
Does it mean

Hmmmm so you can actually welcomed an explanation from humans who never saw the blackhole without you having to see it for yourself?

Now is the time for LOGICAL REASONING!

jaephoenix:
First things first, do you have evidence of this god?

Are you really interested in the evidence of God's existence?
Just as you welcomed EXPLANATION for the existence of unseen blackholes!

jaephoenix:
What are those 4 wheeled mobile structures u see in the road called

I answered you saying "mobile chairs".

And now one of your people got angry and deleted it.

StillDtruth:
I answered you saying "mobile chairs".

And now one of your people got angry and deleted it.

Didn't want to interfere with you guys' talk but mehn I have to laugh... 😂😂

Una no real for this forum 😅😅

PulsingPurple:
Didn't want to interfere with you guys' talk but mehn I have to laugh... 😂😂

Una no real for this forum 😅😅

This place ehn. You will laugh tire. And it can also be very annoying.

But anyway, I am just proving that belief does not always need to have a reason. Yes, it is supposed to but, it can also be built on air.