₦airaland Forum

JovialJune:
These people against Christianity, especially Pentecostal churches, always show their true intentions everytime, very pained nuisances because Christians have shown their capability and rapid growth in every sector in Nigeria, so they try to negate them the best way they can by spitting entire falsehoods about the religion to sway those that aren't deeply rooted to either atheism, traditionalist, or Islam.

How else are Christians suppose to make an impact and promote Christianity in the country if not by participating in politics and being in the helm of affairs? We should sit back and let other religion influence everyone and let the gates of hell prevail? Never.

Agents of darkness will never succeed no matter how much they try, and Christianity will continue to exist and grow till the end of time.

Can yon explain John 17:14 and 18:36 below if Christians are to participate in the politics of this world?

New Living Translation
I have given them your word. And the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world

New Living Translation
Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

JovialJune:
It is better to keep shut than to be seen as unwise.

Jesus said:

"What I tell you in the darkness, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, preach from the housetops" Matthew 10:27

He condemned politics for whoever wants to be his followers! Luke 18:18-23

WHY?

Because Jesus is the chosen king of God's government while Satan is the king over human's government {John 14:30; 1Corinthans 4:4; 1John 5:19} that's why Satan could offer Jesus what has been given to him! Luke 4:5-7

So whoever is into politics can never ever be free from bloodguilt!

Truthseeker10:
What Is the will of God that is been done in the society today that is also done in heaven?

Explain John 18:36 below.

New Living Translation
Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

In other to cut typing long I have attached ai explanation of that scripture you quoted. I agree with that. So you ask me what is then the kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 explains it: "For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." that's why Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within the believer Luke 17:21, we are supposed to express it in the society as salts.

I do hope this answers the question though. God bless you

ajoguegbe:
In other to cut typing long I have attached ai explanation of that scripture you quoted. I agree with that. So you ask me what is then the kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 explains it: "For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." that's why Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within the believer Luke 17:21, we are supposed to express it in the society as salts.

I do hope this answers the question though. God bless you.

Jesus was addressing murderous PHARISEES in that verse and it's obvious they don't believe in Jesus!

ajoguegbe:
In other to cut typing long I have attached ai explanation of that scripture you quoted. I agree with that. So you ask me what is then the kingdom of God? Romans 14:17 explains it: "For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." that's why Jesus said that the Kingdom of God is within the believer Luke 17:21, we are supposed to express it in the society as salts.

I do hope this answers the question though. God bless you

Ok....can you explain Daniel 2:44 below.

New Living Translation
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever.

If the kingdom of God is within the believer, what are the kingdoms that we are going to crush into nothingness and how and when will that happen?

Truthseeker10:
Can yon explain John 17:14 and 18:36 below if Christians are to participate in the politics of this world?

New Living Translation
I have given them your word. And the world hates them because they do not belong to the world, just as I do not belong to the world

New Living Translation
Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

Next time, try not to be clever by quarter, it shows being unwise when quoting one verse to suit a baseless narrative, Christians quote accompanying verses for better understanding of the scriptures.

‭John 17:6-14 NIV‬
JESUS PRAYS FOR HIS DISCIPLES

[6] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

[7] Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

[8] For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

[9] I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.

[10] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.

[11] I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

[12] While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

[13] “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

[14] I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.

‭John 18:28-37 NIV‬
JESUS BEFORE PILATE

[28] Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.

[29] So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

[30] “If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”

[31] Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” “But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected.

[32] This took place to fulfill what Jesus had said about the kind of death he was going to die. [33] Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

[34] “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

[35] “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

[36] Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

[37] “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

The verses quoted has nothing to do with instructing Christians not to participate in Politics.

Wisdom is profitable to direct.

JovialJune:
Next time, try not to be clever by quarter, it shows being unwise when quoting one verse to suit a baseless narrative, Christians quote accompanying verses for better understanding of the scriptures.

‭John 17:6-14 NIV‬
JESUS PRAYS FOR HIS DISCIPLES

[6] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

[7] Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

[8] For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

[9] I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.

[10] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.

[11] I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

[12] While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

[13] “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

[14] I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.

‭John 18:28-37 NIV‬
JESUS BEFORE PILATE

[28] Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.

[29] So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

[30] “If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”

[31] Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” “But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected.

[32] This took place to fulfill what Jesus had said about the kind of death he was going to die. [33] Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

[34] “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

[35] “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

[36] Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

[37] “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

The verses quoted has nothing to do with instructing Christians not to participate in Politics.

Wisdom is profitable to direct.

So what is the kingdom that Jesus said is not an earthly kingdom?

Explain how Christians are no part of the world?

Did Jesus or his apostles promote Christianity by participating in politics and being at the helm of affairs?

Explain Daniel 2:44 below. What are the kingdoms that would be destroyed by the kingdom of God?

New Living Translation
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever.

JovialJune:
Next time, try not to be clever by quarter, it shows being unwise when quoting one verse to suit a baseless narrative, Christians quote accompanying verses for better understanding of the scriptures.

‭John 17:6-14 NIV‬
JESUS PRAYS FOR HIS DISCIPLES

[6] “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

[7] Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.

[8] For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

[9] I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours.

[10] All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them.

[11] I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

[12] While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

[13] “I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.

[14] I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.

‭John 18:28-37 NIV‬
JESUS BEFORE PILATE

[28] Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.

[29] So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

[30] “If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”

[31] Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.” “But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected.

[32] This took place to fulfill what Jesus had said about the kind of death he was going to die. [33] Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

[34] “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

[35] “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

[36] Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

[37] “You are a king, then!” said Pilate. Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

The verses quoted has nothing to do with instructing Christians not to participate in Politics.

Wisdom is profitable to direct.

Can you mention one member of the first century Apostles who is a politician?

Truthseeker10:
You mean you provided a bible verse that bans pastors from participating in politics but encourages their members to do so in our discussion here?

i replied already

Image123:
i replied already

the screenshot below is the only time you made reference to the Bible. Is the supposed direction to pray for kings only directed to pastors?
You clearly said "you think pastors should be apolitical". If that Is your personal opinion by that verse, no problem unless you have a verse that bans pastors from joining politics and encourages members to join politics.

Truthseeker10:
the screenshot below is the only time you made reference to the Bible. Is the supposed direction to pray for kings only directed to pastors?
You clearly said "you think pastors should be apolitical". If that Is your personal opinion by that verse, no problem unless you have a verse that bans pastors from joining politics and encourages members to join politics.

What was the verse?

Pastors and politicians hold the same job description. Keep the people in chains

Image123:
What was the verse?

You can tell me....you've repeatedly made it clear here that your opinion is based on the bible.

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus said:

"What I tell you in the darkness, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, preach from the housetops" Matthew 10:27

He condemned politics for whoever wants to be his followers! Luke 18:18-23

WHY?

Because Jesus is the chosen king of God's government while Satan is the king over human's government {John 14:30; 1Corinthans 4:4; 1John 5:19} that's why Satan could offer Jesus what has been given to him! Luke 4:5-7

So whoever is into politics can never ever be free from bloodguilt!

Stop mentioning verses in the bible to promote falsehood,

The quoted verses you mentioned never showed condemnation, surrendering is totally different from condemnation.

Luke 18:18-23 tells the story of a rich young ruler who asks Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life. Jesus challenges the ruler's understanding of goodness and his attachment to his wealth, revealing that true discipleship requires a willingness to surrender everything, including possessions, for the sake of following him.

John 14:30 states, "I will not talk with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me". This verse is Jesus speaking to his disciples, informing them that his time with them is nearing its end. He foretells the arrival of the "prince of this world," a term used for Satan, and clarifies that Satan has no power or claim over him. This signifies Jesus's voluntary submission to his fate and his victory over Satan's power.

Corinthians 4:4 states, "For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord." This verse emphasizes that while Paul is not aware of any wrongdoing in his ministry, his ultimate accountability is to God, not to human judgment.

1 John 5:19 declares, "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." This verse contrasts believers, who are described as being "of God," with the world, which is portrayed as being under the sway of Satan. It highlights a fundamental spiritual reality: the existence of a spiritual battle between God's kingdom and the forces of darkness, represented by Satan.

Nowhere does it say Christians should not participate in politics.

Truthseeker10:
You can tell me....you've repeatedly made it clear here that your opinion is based on the bible.

i told you already. What was the verse(s) that i quoted?

MaxInDHouse:
Can you mention one member of the first century Apostles who is a politician?

Matthew was a renowned tax collector before Jesus called him to be his apostle.

Image123:
i told you already. What was the verse(s) that i quoted?

I don't know the verse that you quoted. You claim pastors are directed to pray for kings. Where is that written in the bible?

Truthseeker10:
So what is the kingdom that Jesus said is not an earthly kingdom?

Explain how Christians are no part of the world?

Did Jesus or his apostles promote Christianity by participating in politics and being at the helm of affairs?

Explain Daniel 2:44 below. What are the kingdoms that would be destroyed by the kingdom of God?

New Living Translation
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever.

Daniel 2:44 prophesies the establishment of an everlasting kingdom by God, which will replace all earthly kingdoms and endure forever. This prophecy is often interpreted as a foreshadowing of the Kingdom of God, established through Jesus Christ, which will ultimately triumph over all worldly powers. The verse highlights the permanence and divine origin of this kingdom, contrasting it with the transient nature of human empires.

Meaning the Second coming of our Lord Jesus will reign over all kingdom of the earth.

JovialJune:
Daniel 2:44 prophesies the establishment of an everlasting kingdom by God, which will replace all earthly kingdoms and endure forever. This prophecy is often interpreted as a foreshadowing of the Kingdom of God, established through Jesus Christ, which will ultimately triumph over all worldly powers. The verse highlights the permanence and divine origin of this kingdom, contrasting it with the transient nature of human empires.

Meaning the Second coming of our Lord Jesus will reign over all kingdom of the earth.

New Living Translation
“During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever.

King James Bible
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

So what are the kingdoms that the kingdom of God would "crush into nothingness or break into pieces and consume"? Does that include the earthly politics of this world?

Questions that you've not answered below.

So what is the kingdom that Jesus said is not an earthly kingdom?

Explain how Christians are no part of the world?

Did Jesus or his apostles promote Christianity by participating in politics and being at the helm of affairs

Truthseeker10:
I don't know the verse that you quoted. You claim pastors are directed to pray for kings. Where is that written in the bible?

No i didn't, please read the post again. It doesn't kill.

Image123:
No i didn't, please read the post again. It doesn't kill.

Here it is.

JovialJune:
Matthew was a renowned tax collector before Jesus called him to be his apostle.

So a tax collector is a politician shey?

No wonder you keep arguing blindly!

JovialJune:
Stop mentioning verses in the bible to promote falsehood,

The quoted verses you mentioned never showed condemnation, surrendering is totally different from condemnation.

Luke 18:18-23 tells the story of a rich young ruler who asks Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life. Jesus challenges the ruler's understanding of goodness and his attachment to his wealth, revealing that true discipleship requires a willingness to surrender everything, including possessions, for the sake of following him.

John 14:30 states, "I will not talk with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me". This verse is Jesus speaking to his disciples, informing them that his time with them is nearing its end. He foretells the arrival of the "prince of this world," a term used for Satan, and clarifies that Satan has no power or claim over him. This signifies Jesus's voluntary submission to his fate and his victory over Satan's power.

Corinthians 4:4 states, "For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord." This verse emphasizes that while Paul is not aware of any wrongdoing in his ministry, his ultimate accountability is to God, not to human judgment.

1 John 5:19 declares, "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." This verse contrasts believers, who are described as being "of God," with the world, which is portrayed as being under the sway of Satan. It highlights a fundamental spiritual reality: the existence of a spiritual battle between God's kingdom and the forces of darkness, represented by Satan.

Nowhere does it say Christians should not participate in politics.

The word politics doesn't appear in the Bible just as smoking but we know what it leads to which Jesus condemns among his disciples.

For instance how can members of the same church participate in politics while brother A belongs to PDP and brother B belongs to APC can their supporters remain united in faith? John 17:22; 1Corinthans 1:10

How do you think protesters against PDP government be in the same church when the governor they are protesting against is right there in the congregation?

Well Paul said the God of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that the teachings of Christ which supposed to yield LOVE among believers won't work in their gathering! 2Corinthians 4:4

No wonder only Jehovah's Witnesses have love among themselves globally as true disciples of Christ Jesus! John 13:34-35

APOPTOSIS:
JEHOVAH'S WITNESS is operating at a different level.
They have been steadfast, resolute and committed.
I hold no grudge against them. They downplay commercialization of churches.
They entertain persecutions a lot, in fact more than several Christian bodies.
Seems in their church everyone is at same level irrespective of your degree, financial acquaintance and contacts.
And it seems they obey the Bible the most:
-They hardly disturb neighbors during prayers.
-They frown at intimidation and flamboyant lifestyles.
-They ensure financial gifts are covered and never displeased at whatever they recieve.
-Their members would make good politicians but they frown at politics
I respect them. I judge based on actions and not what I'm told.

BafanaBafana:
Quite true. JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are actually one of the few denominations who are still following Christ. Most churches now are headed by motivational speakers who only use the name of Jesus to preach other things. The goal is to attract members to their church and the members will bring the money.
Shikena!

Oye0404:
well said, once had a witness DAT comes around for years, truth is,dis guys are so caring and accommodating. lots if misconceptions about dem..

XXLDICK:
They remain the most peaceful Christian denomination.
They do not pay tithes. They are the only Christian denomination yet to be commercialized. They are my favourite.
Cons:
They do not recite the national anthem.
They do not participate in elections.
They do not accept blood transfusion.

freethinker01:
Tho I don't like their disturbance, I'd have to say they're far better than all their Christian tithe whoring counterparts.

boss1310:
The way they are hated makes me to think sometimes they might be the true Christians but I might be wrong.

Deway52:
I am convinced that JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES are the real religion, they do everything in line with the bible.
Na small time remain for me now, I don enter. If everybody in the world is a jw the world would be a better place.

Love800:
I would love to be a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS, because of their gentle life. Relaxed service and programs(not those stressful and loud types), and serenity of their church yard. Infact, its this serenity of their abode that blows my mind!

But the thing that worries me, is their misled teachings. How can you say that we are not going to die, but remain on earth and unite with our love ones and live happily together forever!

MaxInDHouse:
So a tax collector is a politician shey?

No wonder you keep arguing blindly!

You clearly don't know what it means to be a tax collector in those days that's why you look at it with the knowledge of today, and you think it is nothing, and you clearly don't know history and don't do research, cos if you do, you'd know it was a rare feat that not many can attain to.

MaxInDHouse:
The word politics doesn't appear in the Bible just as smoking but we know what it leads to which Jesus condemns among his disciples.

For instance how can members of the same church participate in politics while brother A belongs to PDP and brother B belongs to APC can their supporters remain united in faith? John 17:22; 1Corinthans 1:10

How do you think protesters against PDP government be in the same church when the governor they are protesting against is right there in the congregation?

Well Paul said the God of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of unbelievers so that the teachings of Christ which supposed to yield LOVE among believers won't work in their gathering! 2Corinthians 4:4

No wonder only Jehovah's Witnesses have love among themselves globally as true disciples of Christ Jesus! John 13:34-35

This one is busy promoting JW the false doctrine association, I should have known better,

Pls do not quote me again, adios.

Truthseeker10:
Here it is.

That's not it, why did you crop/cut my post?

Truthseeker10:
Don't you also think that politics itself is a tool for control?

Religion controls politics.

Image123:
That's not it, why did you crop/cut my post?

Lol.... so the screenshot does not say that pastors are directed by the bible to pray for kings?

bigiyaro:
Religion controls politics.

Your response does not answer the question. The question is if politics itself is not a tool for control.

Truthseeker10:
Lol.... so the screenshot does not say that pastors are directed by the bible to pray for kings?

i have asked you several times if there was a bible verse in my post and what verse(s) it was. But you seem more interested in something else.

JovialJune:
You clearly don't know what it means to be a tax collector in those days that's why you look at it with the knowledge of today, and you think it is nothing, and you clearly don't know history and don't do research, cos if you do, you'd know it was a rare feat that not many can attain to.

If a tax collector is a politician and he is still practicing this as a disciple of Christ how do you think such a person will knock on people's doors to preach and not be stoned?

Imagine Sanwolu or Dapo Abiodun going from house to house to preach!

Image123:
i have asked you several times if there was a bible verse in my post and what verse(s) it was. But you seem more interested in something else.

I have also asked you where the bible states that pastors are banned form politics but members should join politics but it seems you have no biblical basis for such a conclusion. No need to argue since you are sharing your personal opinion on why pastors should be apolitical. Goodbye.