₦airaland Forum

emmanuelewumi:
What Awesome is doing is extremely dangerous.

I think he should use part of his trading profits to beef up his trading capital and also create other sources of income apart from capital appreciation from stocks

I don't need anyone to tell me he is crashing in trading.

His level of trading doesn't need unsecured loan if he is really making money.

emmanuelewumi:
You did not understand her


If you have N30 million worth of acceptable stocks Ucee Microfinance Bank a subsidiary of United Capital will give a loan of N10 million.

You can only trade with N10 million, a lien will be placed on your N30 million portfolio.

It is not a margin loan but a retail asset backed loan

Why did you assume that I did not understand her? why was that your preferred inference, why couldn't you imagine that she spoke without fully understanding the terms, - which was indeed the case?

Na wah o, You people just like to rush to conclude on what you do not understand.

Like I said she said she would find out more and call back, and she did, even she herself knew the issue was that she didn't have the right information, but you prefer to think you've seen someone who didn't understand basic communication

Locotrader:
@Awesomej

Why are you looking for unsecured loan at this time stocks are almost at the climax?

Anyway if you bank with Moniepoint,it's done at 34% per anum.With your average monthly turnover,you get the funds quickly after verifications.

I will advice you stay clear from loans.
Afterall you have made it clear to us you trade with above N1B.
What's the essence of loan at this level?

To ask of unsecured loan means you don't have a tangible collateral to sustain your loan.

I would have helped if I know you in person for this loan at 20-25% (personal loan)

@the bolded, you must have misinterpreted my communication.
What I said was that I'm currently on a target to trade N1bn per quarter,
It doesn't mean my portfolio is that large. I can do up to 20x my portfolio in a quarter, maybe even more than 25x if the market isn't slow.

that implies i need less than N50m portfolio to trade N1bn in a quarter. My current portfolio is indeed below N50, but my trades are N700 - N800m per quarter.

Why do I need the loan?? To scale! For me, Leverage = acceleration.

Oil prices update

awesomeJ:
Why did you assume that I did not understand her? why was that your preferred inference, why couldn't you imagine that she spoke without fully understanding the terms, - which was indeed the case?

Na wah o, You people just like to rush to conclude on what you do not understand.

Like I said she said she would find out more and call back, and she did, even she herself knew the issue was that she didn't have the right information, but you prefer to think you've seen someone who didn't understand basic communication

I have a retail asset backed loan of N12 million from them. You can only have a maximum of 33% of the value of acceptable shares. Although the loan was not used for stock purchase.

It is also possible the lady does not understand what she was saying and will have to get the correct information from her superiors


In your case with your N30 million cash, they can only give you a maximum of additional N10 million .

So you will have N40 million to buy anything, but their name and your will be on the title documents of the property bought until you liquidate the loan, if you bought a stock with the loan they will place a lien on the stock. You can't sell the stock, you will use your cash flow to service the loan.

That is why it is different from a margin loan

awesomeJ:
....implies i need less than N50m portfolio to trade N1bn in a quarter. My current portfolio is indeed below N50, but my trades are N700 - N800m per quarter.

Why do I need the loan?? To scale! For me, Leverage = acceleration.

How much do you pay in fees on a <50m portfolio doing 800m turnover? How many % do you usually scalp off a stock to make it worth it? My mind cannot imagine the frequency of your trading

awesomeJ:
@the bolded, you must have misinterpreted my communication.
What I said was that I'm currently on a target to trade N1bn per quarter,
It doesn't mean my portfolio is that large. I can do up to 20x my portfolio in a quarter, maybe even more than 25x if the market isn't slow.

that implies i need less than N50m portfolio to trade N1bn in a quarter. My current portfolio is indeed below N50, but my trades are N700 - N800m per quarter.

Why do I need the loan?? To scale! For me, Leverage = acceleration.

Okay oooo.
You made it clear to me when you contacted me to recommend the cheapest digital broker which I called out Atlas portfolios.I don't forget easily

Pls unsecured loan is not good for you.
If you insist, moniepoint is your partner in this case @ 34%

awesomeJ:
@the bolded, you must have misinterpreted my communication.
What I said was that I'm currently on a target to trade N1bn per quarter,
It doesn't mean my portfolio is that large. I can do up to 20x my portfolio in a quarter, maybe even more than 25x if the market isn't slow.

that implies i need less than N50m portfolio to trade N1bn in a quarter. My current portfolio is indeed below N50, but my trades are N700 - N800m per quarter.

Why do I need the loan?? To scale! For me, Leverage = acceleration.

While looking at the upside once in a while, it is good to look at the down side thrice in a while.

Your over trading is more than enough to accelerate and scale

emmanuelewumi:
What Awesome is doing is extremely dangerous.

I think he should use part of his trading profits to beef up his trading capital and also create other sources of income apart from capital appreciation from stocks

What you haven't mastered will definetly be dangerous.
I remember when I couldn't put more than 20% of my assets in stocks, I was heavy in fixed income. That was what my experience and skills at the time could support. If you're still there, and you try to imitate my decisions, you're on your own.

Where I am now, I can comfortably put 500% of my investable assets on the NGX, cos what i trade is certainty!

the 400% leverage is what I'm trying to find.

Your point about using part of profits is a no brainer, it's a given.
when i started making comments on my trading volumes earlier this year, It was around N100m per month, now the volume is like 2.5x, that growth has only come from profits.

Locotrader:
I don't need anyone to tell me he is crashing in trading.

His level of trading doesn't need unsecured loan if he is really making money.

Well you're wrong to think there's a crash any where. I can't even remember the last time i had a weekly red. Even daily reds are so few, they can be counted.
If you want, pick any week at random between August and Now, I'll show you it's green. (August cos that's when i started using my current software)

If you want a N500m portfolio, and you have N30m, you can choose to grow at N3m per month for maybe a decade before you hit your target, or you can seek to find leverage that'll help you grow at twice the speed (N6m monthly) and cut the time to 3 years.

That's the maths, seeking leverage doesn't mean you aren't making profits? why would you even assume that?

If i wasn't making profits? N2.5m in monthly trading fees would have sent me back to village na.

awesomeJ:
What you haven't mastered will definetly be dangerous.
I remember when I couldn't put more than 20% of my assets in stocks, I was heavy in fixed income. That was what my experience and skills at the time could support. If you're still there, and you try to imitate my decisions, you're on your own.

Where I am now, I can comfortably put 500% of my investable assets on the NGX, cos what i trade is certainty!

the 400% leverage is what I'm trying to find.

Your point about using part of profits is a no brainer, it's a given.
when i started making comments on my trading volumes earlier this year, It was around N100m per month, now the volume is like 2.5x, that growth has only come from profits.

Yes it is possible to trade more with the profits, while is better to use that to increase the trading capital.

Most of the stocks that suffered in the last 2 years, and had their shareholders fund wiped out were those that were over leveraged and under capitalized for the size of business they were doing

toyeoye:
Oil prices update

Many factors are pulling oil prices down and a few are pulling it up. If not for OPEC+ oil prices will be lower than current market prices.

deathwing:
How much do you pay in fees on a <50m portfolio doing 800m turnover? How many % do you usually scalp off a stock to make it worth it? My mind cannot imagine the frequency of your trading

very high! sometimes up to 1% of deals.
fees are about 1.1%
margins are 1-2%

why am i answering you though?
I assume you're asking in good faith.

Now, I've heard some people talk about working for brokers making it seem like brokers getting huge fees off you is such a bad thing??

It's a joy for me to know that I have 2 diffrent brokers that will make 500k each off my account ever single month without fail. My target is to get it to a minimum of N1m for each broker next year.

how's that bad? If they have someone on their payroll on 400k salary, i'm basically doing enough to pay 2 such persons at both my brokers, why shouldn't that be exciting for an activity i do conveniently and remotely? It gives me huge joy. The only problem is if you yourself aren't making money. That's not just bad, it makes the whole arrangement unsustainable!

There are speculations within NNPC that Port Harcourt Refineries could be sold to Oando.

Locotrader:
Okay oooo.
You made it clear to me when you contacted me to recommend the cheapest digital broker which I called out Atlas portfolios.I don't forget easily

Pls unsecured loan is not good for you.
If you insist, moniepoint is your partner in this case @ 34%

Do you mean i can just reach out to moniepoint right now, and all they'll do is run checks on my turnover with other banks, the run credit checks and be ready to give me an offer? if that's the case, that would be the best news this month. That's how Renmoney operates. but if it's a case of they'll ask me to run account for 6 months, then use the turnover on my moniepoint account, it'll still be better, but obviously right now is better than 6 months.

By the way, when i asked you about Atlass, what I made clear was my trading volume (cos that really what matters in the context of trading fees) not my portfolio size. thanks again for the advise.

emmanuelewumi:
While looking at the upside once in a while, it is good to look at the down side thrice in a while.

Your over trading is more than enough to accelerate and scale

You do not have enough context to make this conclusion, you're assuming based on limited information.
If you had overtraded with N2m and it was enough for you to scale to N2bn, then maybe I would agree with you, but as it is, you do not even have any experience at all with trading or overtrading, what makes you think you know what's enough?

bolton08:
There are speculations within NNPC that Port Harcourt Refineries could be sold to Oando.

Buy the rumor...

emmanuelewumi:
Yes it is possible to trade more with the profits, while is better to use that to increase the trading capital.

Most of the stocks that suffered in the last 2 years, and had their shareholders fund wiped out were those that were over leveraged and under capitalized for the size of business they were doing

what's the difference here?
if you trade more with the profits, it simply means you've used the profits to increase the trading capital na? abi what are you trying to mean?

Agbalowomeri:
Una get money for here o

My brother!!! Me wey be dey feel like Don Dada with my N100k portfolio

GTCO volumes today massive gan

Some thoughts on over trading

More

Ginalex:
GTCO volumes today massive gan

Not as massive as on Monday 24th

emmanuelewumi:
Some thoughts on over trading

Read the Ai's conclusion. Don't try it as an inexperienced person o. I'd say learn for 5 years first and build a profitable strategy as the AI suggests, otherise, even if your portfolio is N100m, it'll only take 2.5 years to hit 0 if you're paying N3m in trading fees monthly.

But if you see someone that has consistently done it for years, then what you need to do is calm down and learn from them if you're interested, not trying to advise on what you don't understand.

1-2% ke?

Ah, this is serious o. Goodluck on your travels. It sounds crazy but I guess it works for you. I'm sure you have like two monitors just to look at order book

awesomeJ:
very high! sometimes up to 1% of deals.
fees are about 1.1%
margins are 1-2%

awesomeJ:
Read the Ai's conclusion. Don't try it as an inexperienced person o. I'd say learn for 5 years first and build a profitable strategy as the AI suggests, otherise, even if your portfolio is N100m, it'll only take 2.5 years to hit 0 if you're paying N3m in trading fees monthly.

But if you see someone that has consistently done it for years, then what you need to do is calm down and learn from them if you're interested, not trying to advise on what you don't understand.

You can also google the thoughts of some reputable stock traders

O

awesomeJ:
Read the Ai's conclusion. Don't try it as an inexperienced person o. I'd say learn for 5 years first and build a profitable strategy as the AI suggests, otherise, even if your portfolio is N100m, it'll only take 2.5 years to hit 0 if you're paying N3m in trading fees monthly.

But if you see someone that has consistently done it for years, then what you need to do is calm down and learn from them if you're interested, not trying to advise on what you don't understand.

Don't mind
Just focus on the screen.
Your own trading skills needs to be on the screen from 10am-2.20pm daily.
When I grow up,I will like to trade like you.

deathwing:
1-2% ke?

Ah, this is serious o. Goodluck on your travels. It sounds crazy but I guess it works for you. I'm sure you have like two monitors just to look at order book

I do have two screens. The other one is to look at Netflix.
Thinking it requires complex efforts is a wrong assumption

I don't need luck, monkey hunting or patience, All i need is for the market to be open.

toyeoye:
Not as massive as on Monday 24th

You mean it traded more than 9billion is value on Monday?

emmanuelewumi:
You can also google the thoughts of some reputable stock traders

To what end?

You should only advise someone who tells you they're struggling to seek such information.

I have more success than i target in the market bull or bear, so why waste my time on irrelevant opinions.

I get excited though, when some people think my earnings aren't real, or Loco says it's impossible to not be in a loss, it makes me appreciate God's blessing more. Cos for most people, it's indeed impossible, so thank God for me.

Locotrader:
O

Don't mind
Just focus on the screen.
Your own trading skills needs to be on the screen from 10am-2.20pm daily.
When I grow up,I will like to trade like you.

life isn't that hard my brother.
God's blessings can eliminate complex efforts for you. I could be on this forum all day long, or be debugging crazy bugs on vs code, or be on Netflix, I'll still make money in the market, rain or shine, bull or bear.

Will Presco be able to raise their RI if the stock has been trading below all this while? I remember buying on the floor at 1356 just a few fews ago. It's still around 1400.