₦airaland Forum

emmanuelewumi:
That was why I said I bought at a discount. Buying a bond at a premium or a discount is determined by the prevailing interest rate and yield of bonds

I didn't dispute your claim.
The whole point is that the fact that you bought at 20% yield doesn't mean someone else couldn't have bought at 13%

emmanuelewumi:
I disputed because I was not into fixed income investments then, I started buying were yields were over 20%.



The only one I got at a yield of 18% which was bought this years, when I sold some Presco shares

That Emefiele's second term was all shades of shege sir.

He messed many things up imo.

Ding!

Streetinvestor2:
You say u love long dated bond because it is 20% u got now.Tell me how the one I bought 3 yrs at 13% is good thing now.This is 10yrs bond.Then I thought it was wise decision but now I regret it

Sukuk III which was auctioned in 2020 when I first invested was 11.2%, then Sukuk IV auctioned in 2021 was 13%. Sukuk V auction in 2022 was 15.64%. Then Sukuk VI was auctioned in 2023 at 15.75. There was not Sukuk primary auction in 2024. In 2025, it was auctioned at 19.75%.


You are most likely referring to Sukuk IV which was in 2021 and about a year earlier than the 3 years. Yes at that time based on the general market indices, it was a very good decision. Then the MPR was about 11.5%. So there was nothing better in the fixed income space except if you have a good relationship manager that will intimate you on good deals in FG Bonds when they pop up once in a while at the secondary market.

The issue with FGN Bond is that it's not easily accessible like FGN Sukuk and FGN Savings Bond especially at the primary auction and it's also for HNI's and institutions because you will need upto 50M to invest on your own except for maybe other finance houses that helps small investors gather money and invest on their behalf.

PETERiCHY:
SOFT REMINDER 🎗️

Let EXPECT JAPAULGOLD Right Issue @ circa #5:00k


BARGAIN HUNTERS TAKE NOTE!

You partner in crime don japa leave u in that Japaul. He wise pass u..lol
The supply today na die

Is bull creeping in small small?
Or maybe it's the normal cycle....we wait and see...
NB, MTNN on the front seat earlier....

MECURE seems to be planning fund raising .....that's the only logical explanation for this pumping......@40+ in market

freeman67:
Sukuk III which was auctioned in 2020 when I first invested was 11.2%, then Sukuk IV auctioned in 2021 was 13%. Sukuk V auction in 2022 was 15.64%. Then Sukuk VI was auctioned in 2023 at 15.75. There was not Sukuk primary auction in 2024. In 2025, it was auctioned at 19.75%.


You are most likely referring to Sukuk IV which was in 2021 and about a year earlier than the 3 years. Yes at that time based on the general market indices, it was a very good decision. Then the MPR was about 11.5%. So there was nothing better in the fixed income space except if you have a good relationship manager that will intimate you on good deals in FG Bonds when they pop up once in a while at the secondary market.

The issue with FGN Bond is that it's not easily accessible like FGN Sukuk and FGN Savings Bond especially at the primary auction and it's also for HNI's and institutions because you will need upto 50M to invest on your own except for maybe other finance houses that helps small investors gather money and invest on their behalf.

It was the 2021 one as I stated. @13%.I made mistake saying 3 yrs..This is because I have collected 3 yrs money.This yr own is not yet completed.
So do u see the one you picked at 11.20% for long time as good decision now.I dey vex now for my own..lol

yMcy56:
Is bull creeping in small small?
NB, MTNN on the front seat earlier....

I am enjoying the bull in MTNN. Is there any news of something ? Taking profit is on my mind o

yMcy56:
Is bull creeping in small small?
Or maybe it's the normal cycle....we wait and see...
NB, MTNN on the front seat earlier....

MECURE seems to be planning fund raising .....that's the only logical explanation for this pumping......@40+ in market

When dey pump finish.Na thr papa go come buy the offer..lol

jonnysessy:
I am enjoying the bull in MTNN. Is there any news of something ? Taking profit is on my mind o

MTN returned to profit and resumed dividend payment...
These may be the reasons for the positive sentiments around it.
Seems they also got some contracts or positive things going.

*Not any form of advice*

yMcy56:
Is bull creeping in small small?
Or maybe it's the normal cycle....we wait and see...
NB, MTNN on the front seat earlier....

MECURE seems to be planning fund raising .....that's the only logical explanation for this pumping......@40+ in market

And now PZ

Streetinvestor2:
When dey pump finish.Na thr papa go come buy the offer..lol

Lol.
They may go for share split maybe.
Currently have 4bn OS.

My apartment in Yaba that was 200k in 2016 is now going for 1m. Not sure which 150k apartment in 2007 would be 1m now.

For me, until this year, all this naira FGN bond thing was worthless.

Dollar rate was N600 in 2021 or so. Its currently 1500, almost 3x. Your bond would have to have given you almost 300% in that short time to even keep pace with inflation on the streets. I have been investing in dollar-denominated assets since 2018 and therefore have been getting returns far above inflation and exchange rate wahala.

I started Eurobonds when dollar was about 360. If I put N3.6m, that’s just $10k.

As at today, just purely based on exchange rate, without even looking at the yield, that 3.6m would be worth N14.4m

At 11% yield per year from 2018 would put me at $23k in total assets today.

In naira, that’s currently 33m. (10x returns just like that) all without doing any complicated math or combining bonds or getting a house for rental income.

emmanuelewumi:
Rent goes up as inflation increases. An apartment whose rent was about 150k in 2007 is now going for N1 million.

So if you don't want to do real estate, invest in stocks with good dividend growth such stocks will beat rent increase I remember when zenith paid dividend of 70k per share but paid dividend of about N4 last year.


Bonds have a higher yield, all my bonds have yields of 20% and above but the coupons won't increase for the next 20 years

There are risk averse investors who don't do equities and real estate, except for their primary residence and they are doing well.


Let us look at this scenario, assuming they had N100 when yield of FGN bond was 20%. They can deside to buy an apartment from LSDPC and get a rental income of N5 million for a start which can increase to N15million in the next 10 years.


Or buy FGN bond with the N100 million and earn N20 million coupon for the next 20 years. I love buying long dated bonds.


Buying a property will include keeping aside about 1% of the property's value or 20% of the rental income generated whichever is higher for the repairs or maintenance of the property.


What a smart bond investor should do, in order to do better than the real estate investor is to spend just 25% of the coupon and reinvest the remaining. That is when he got a coupon of N20 million, he should spend just N5 million and reinvest N15 million.

The reinvestment of the N15 million from the coupon will give him another coupon of N3 million, excluding the original N20 million making a total coupon of N23 million in year 2.

Then spend 25% of the N23 million which is N5.75 million and reinvest N17.25 million buying another bond

By doing this his coupon will increase faster than rent

deathwing:
My apartment in Yaba that was 200k in 2016 is now going for 1m. Not sure which 150k apartment in 2007 would be 1m now.

In 2005/2006 i lived in an apartment and it was 150k back then. i moved out but still living around same vicinity. that apartment was rented recently at 850k

GUINNESS
Full bid @217.80!
Where are they pushing the share price to?

....and why is Guinness doing solo movement?
E suppose carry others in the sector along nah

* Wonder why Champion is being deliberately kept below RI price ??
They know what to do once they're ready....

GUINNESS

awesomeJ:
Those investment books are probably written by authors in markets where fixed income yields are between 1-5%.

If that was the case here, then their advise would have worked.

Fixed income yields determin a whole lot in investment markets. It's also the reason why 20x earnings multiple is an acceptable valuation there. In Nigeria 7x is more like it cos of our yield levels.

Personally, I started my building project in December 2020, cos Emefiele kept fixed income yields below 2%,

It was so bad that if you bought T-bills with N5m, your earnings couldn't even cover the bank charges, we were seeing discounts of 0.xx%. So I couldn't do naira fixed income, then he brought another silly policy of inflow vs cash for dollars where dollars deposited as cash couldn't be transferred to buy dollar funds, I could get 6% from SIAML at the time but no way to transfer to them, since my dollars were sourced as cash and deposited. SIAML too also changed their minimum from $1000 to $20,000 for whatever reasons.

I hate having idle funds, I wasn't this experienced in trading, and[b] I underestimated the cost of building by at least half[/b].

@ the bolded, was it really underestimation or inflation in prices of cost of materials multiplied your estimates, except both contributed anyway.
When I completed my house in December 2019 I bought the last batch of cement @ #2,400 per bag (and I was angry that I was buying at a premium) fast forward to 2023 a bag became #10,000 meaning that it would have cost over extra 150% to complete same size of project just within a space of 3years. Inflation no be anybody's mate for this country just that we are resilient people coupled with the possibility of corruption here and there that almost everybody in the country are benefiting from. Besides, if the kind of inflation that happens in Nigeria happen in all these western countries where black is black and white is white most times honestly many people will commit suicide.

deathwing:
My apartment in Yaba that was 200k in 2016 is now going for 1m. Not sure which 150k apartment in 2007 would be 1m now.

For me, until this year, all this naira FGN bond thing was worthless.

Dollar rate was N600 in 2021 or so. Its currently 1500, almost 3x. Your bond would have to have given you almost 300% in that short time to even keep pace with inflation on the streets. I have been investing in dollar-denominated assets since 2018 and therefore have been getting returns far above inflation and exchange rate wahala.

I started Eurobonds when dollar was about 360. If I put N3.6m, that’s just $10k.

As at today, just purely based on exchange rate, without even looking at the yield, that 3.6m would be worth N14.4m

At 11% yield per year from 2018 would put me at $23k in total assets today.

In naira, that’s currently 33m. (10x returns just like that) all without doing any complicated math or combining bonds or getting a house for rental income.

Bond gives predictable income for the duration of the investment, you can reinvest your coupon in equities, real estate or dollar denominated invested.

I once borrowed against my mutual fund and used the loan to buy dollars at less than N900 and invested in Eurobond.


It depends on how you want to play the game, knowing fully well that you have a predictable income from the investment for the next 10 years

SonofElElyonRet:
I already told you the price range. Can't keep repeating same thing.. I said there's pdf comprehensive prospectus with analysis for each of the 3 properties. Can't post pdf here. It's part of the materials I said are available

If you want the materials I can send to you..
That's the best I can do o

Price range was not included in what you shared ooooo

unite4real:
In 2005/2006 i lived in an apartment and it was 150k back then. i moved out but still living around same vicinity. that apartment was rented recently at 850k

150k that time was more than $1k

SonofElElyonRet:
Since we are talking real estate, I am a referral agent for a highly reputable real estate company in UK that has tenanted apartments for sale under a social housing contract wherein the government guarantees rent for 25 years. No mortgage provided. Payment is one off. Buyer does nothing, just collects rent. No additional expenses. Total package. Rental income is currently between 10% - 12% p.a subject to structured review. What I do is refer prospects directly to the UK real estate company but I have to do the introduction so they know the subscribers that I introduced. There are detailed materials available for enlightenment.. prices are between £125,000 -£313,000
You do your due diligence of course. Very few units available .

Sorry just seeing this.

nosa2:
Have you done the research I suggested?

May be you should let us see the angle you are coming but fundamentally, I can tell you with a lot of certainty that palm oil business will keep printing money like ever before for atleast another 10 years.

People forget that investing is forward looking, the working 10years ago by these guys is what we are seeing today, the todays work will be felt in future..

The price you are paying today for Presco is forward looking.

yMcy56:
GUINNESS
Full bid @217.80!
Where are they pushing the share price to?

....and why is Guinness doing solo movement?
E suppose carry others in the sector along nah

* Wonder why Champion is being deliberately kept below RI price ??
They know what to do once they're ready....

Any time Guinness is moving, I remember my NB. Sold a few some weeks ago, about 10%. The gap between them these days is unusual compared to before.

Valthegreat:
@ the bolded, was it really underestimation or inflation in prices of cost of materials multiplied your estimates, except both contributed anyway.
When I completed my house in December 2019 I bought the last batch of cement @ #2,400 per bag (and I was angry that I was buying at a premium) fast forward to 2023 a bag became #10,000 meaning that it would have cost over extra 150% to complete same size of project just within a space of 3years. Inflation no be anybody's mate for this country just that we are resilient people coupled with the possibility of corruption here and there that almost everybody in the country are benefiting from. Besides, if the kind of inflation that happens in Nigeria happen in all these western countries where black is black and white is white most times honestly many of them will commit suicide.

You're right, It was both
My first ever building, yet I chose one so big that the solid decked area is above 350 sq. metres.
I could have started with a bungalow or a 150 sq metre duplex.

This is my first christmas being debt free in 5 years

Agbalowomeri:
Wetin be my work? I dey follow you my Oga at the top

This one you didn't put your usual trade marks which shows you are serious this time, are you going as a fellow invitee or just to hold your oga's briefcase (of course filled with dollars and pounds he will spray Dangote) for him?

Agbalowomeri:
150k that time was more than $1k

That's his point I guess. Maybe yours too
The rent should now be at least N1.7m ($1200 equivalent) but is only still 850k

and 850K today is not up to $600. Waste of investment.

Agbalowomeri:
150k that time was more than $1k

crownprince2017:
[b]May be you should let us see the angle you are coming [/b]but fundamentally, I can tell you with a lot of certainty that palm oil business will keep printing money like ever before for atleast another 10 years.

People forget that investing is forward looking, the working 10years ago by these guys is what we are seeing today, the todays work will be felt in future..

The price you are paying today for Presco is forward looking.

Where is the fun in that?

Seriously all the information is staring you in the face. All you have to do is interpret it with an unbiased mind.

Hmm.

I think you would do well to shed more light on what you see.
I already pointed to a major factor that influenced my projection from earlier research...

nosa2:
Have you done the research I suggested?

awesomeJ:
You're right, It was both
My first ever building, yet I chose one so big that the solid decked area is above 350 sq. metres.
I could have started with a bungalow or a 150 sq metre duplex.

This is my first christmas being debt free in 5 years

That means your Detty December needs to be really Detty with a lot of thanksgiving.
Honestly, I don't know how all these hard men enjoy their life with a lot of debt hanging on their neck. I do believe that they no longer have conscience, I don't know when I will be able to grow tough like them walahi.

The aim is to beat inflation/hedge against the currency, not be predictable. I think you are complicating matters by borrowing (and therefore paying interest) against funds to invest in eurobond, when you could have just invested in the bond in the first place.

emmanuelewumi:
Bond gives predictable income for the duration of the investment, you can reinvest your coupon in equities, real estate or dollar denominated invested.

I once borrowed against my mutual fund and used the loan to buy dollars at less than N900 and invested in Eurobond.


It depends on how you want to play the game, knowing fully well that you have a predictable income from the investment for the next 10 years

PuristForest:
Japaul is not done...safe entry is between 1.88 and 1.98........DYOR