₦airaland Forum

tosine90:
How can a sane person be an atheist in the first place untill they can answer this question. They should re examine their stands.

Can a art exist without an artist
Can a movie exist without a producer
Can a bread exist without a baker
Can food exist without a cook or chef
Can a phone exist without a maker
Can a song exist without a musician
Can a car exit without the manufacturer

Then how can you accept humans exist without a maker
And the world exists with the Creator
Can a footprint exist on a beach with someone who make it.
The fact that we can see God doesn't mean it doesn't exist or an imagination of man.

No wonder the Bible says a fool says in his heart there is no God

Think 🤔

From my observation and experience, I realized that many who claim to be atheist are actually working for Satan and have a very good relationship with Satan. Their job is to deceive the public and make them indifferent about the things of God to the advantage of Satan.

cococandy:
You don’t believe people can be good without the threat of punishment?

evangelism has always been about demonizing other belief systems and portraying them as evil and immoral
which may be why missionaries played a big part in colonization - selling the idea that the colonized had an inferior lifestyle and belief system that christianity would elevate

this may be the same reason atheism and deism are rising today, because the kind loving God who protects his children is not compatible with the lived reality so many people experience and question today. most other religions will straight up tell you life will be hard and can be fked up - not that God is a loving doting father whose children will come to no harm or hurt or pain.

Rule of law regulates everything we do not religious laws

You said your morality comes from the Bible, that's really unchristlike.
Your morality should come from humanity and not from any book.

Love your neighbors as you love yourself

Do unto others what you would want others to do to you

So there is no difference between Jews and gentiles, between slaves and free,male or female, for you are all One in Christ Jesus.(Galatians 3:28)
100% of what Christianity is about is "love your neighbors as you love yourself"

Even in the bible it says "God does not dwell in temples built by human hands,and he is not served by human hands as if he needs anything..."(Acts 17:24-25)
The major thing God requires of any human being is "Love your neighbors as you love yourself"

God doesn't give a f00k whether you are Christian,jew, Muslim or atheist...all he gives a f00k about is "do not harm your fellow man,if you can't love him,then just leave him alone in peace"

monex:
makes sense although this is still relativism. Nigeria saying gay is evil does not objectively make it evil. There is need for an objective definition of good and evil. Each religion tries to claim itself as the objective definition of morality unfortunately.

The problem is no such standard exists nor can it because all morality is by necessity subjective. Morality doesn't exist independent of minds.

onehope:
From my observation and experience, I realized that many who claim to be atheist are actually working for Satan and have a very good relationship with Satan. Their job is to deceive the public and make them indifferent about the things of God to the advantage of Satan.

Which village headmaster told you that one? LoLz.

I get what you’re saying — you’re pushing back on religious institutions and arguing that morality and awe are built into us before any book or church shows up. Let’s take your points one by one, test them against what the Bible itself says, and add real-life examples. That way we keep it grounded.

1. “We aren’t born Christians, Muslims, or Catholics. You were born human.”

Nobody is born with a denominational ID card. We’re born into families, cultures, and belief systems that shape us later.

Biblical angle: The Bible agrees we aren’t born into a religion. Faith is a choice.
Deuteronomy 30:19 — “I have set before you life and death… Now choose life.”
Romans 10:9 — “If you declare with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart… you will be saved.”
Notice: declare and believe. Those are actions, not birthrights.

Practical example: A child born in Kano to Muslim parents isn’t automatically Muslim in practice — they learn to pray, fast, and recite. Same with a child born in Enugu to Catholic parents. The “human first” part is real. What we do with that humanity is taught and chosen.

2. “The labels came later, stamped on you by institutions that profited off SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM.”

Some institutions have abused faith for money and power. History is full of it — indulgences in the 1500s, prosperity scams today. But the Bible itself condemns that.

Micah 3:11 — “Her leaders judge for a bribe, her priests teach for a price, and her prophets tell fortunes for money.”
Matthew 21:12-13 — Jesus flips tables because the temple became a market.
1 Peter 5:2 — “Be shepherds… not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve.”

Practical example: When a pastor tells you “sow ₦100k to unlock heaven,” that’s spiritual capitalism. But when a local church runs a free school or feeds displaced people in Benue, that’s the opposite. The institution isn’t the problem — corruption of it is. Jesus criticized religious leaders more than anyone.

3. “Before the church taught you to bow, you looked up in wonder… Before the Bible told you what beauty was, you already felt it.”

Awe and beauty are pre-wired. Scripture says creation itself points to God before any sermon does.

Romans 1:20 — “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities… have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made.”
Psalm 19:1 — “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.”

Practical example: A 3-year-old in the village sees the moon and says “wow” without Genesis 1. A farmer in Bauchi watches rain hit dry soil and feels gratitude without a hymnbook. The Bible calls that “general revelation” — God speaking through nature first. The church’s job is to give language to what you already sensed, not invent the feeling.

4. “Before you were taught about sin, you already knew empathy… Before they made you fear hell, you already feared hurting someone you love.”

The Bible agrees the basics of right/wrong are “factory installed.”

Romans 2:14-15 — “When Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law… they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts.”

That’s the “moral compass” you mentioned. But Scripture also says we can dull it.
1 Timothy 4:2 — “Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.”

Practical example: Most 5-year-olds cry when they hit a friend — no Sunday school needed. But that same child can also learn to steal and justify it if everyone around them does. Empathy is innate, but so is selfishness. Jeremiah 17:9: “The heart is deceitful above all things.” We have both wires. Laws and teachings exist to strengthen the empathy wire and check the selfish one.

5. “Morality existed before mythology… We trade curiosity for commandments and freedom for faith.”

Moral behavior predates written scripture because humans lived in communities before Moses. But the Bible doesn’t claim it invented morality — it claims to reveal the source of it.

Micah 6:8 — “He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”
That’s 700 BC, and it’s basically: be fair, be kind, stay humble. Not a long rulebook.

Hammurabi’s Code in 1754 BC had “don’t steal” before the Ten Commandments. The Commandments weren’t new ideas — they were a covenant for one nation. The reason behind them is what Scripture adds: “love your neighbor as yourself” Leviticus 19:18. Curiosity isn’t killed by faith; in Proverbs, wisdom starts with asking questions: Proverbs 4:7 — “The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom.”

6. “Your moral compass is factory installed. If you need man-written books, you’ve lost connection with your Creator.”

The Bible agrees the compass is there, but also says we need a map because we get lost.

Proverbs 14:12 — “There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death.”
Your compass can point north, but if you’re in a valley you still need a map to avoid cliffs.

Practical example: You feel it’s wrong to abandon your parents. That’s the compass. The “book” — Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and mother” — gives that feeling social weight and protects elders when culture shifts. Without shared guidelines, “my compass” can become “my opinion.” History shows that: slave traders had a compass too, and called it business.

7. “I’m no atheist, I don’t just buy into religious Gods, those are men’s creation.”

You believe in a Creator, but reject human distortions of Him. The Bible actually warns about that exact thing.

Isaiah 29:13 — “These people come near to me with their mouth… but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is based on merely human rules they have been taught.”
Acts 17:24-25 — “The God who made the world… does not live in temples built by human hands. And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything.”

Paul told the Greeks in Athens: the “unknown God” you already sense — that’s the real One, not the statues you made. So rejecting “religious Gods” made by men is biblical.

---

Offpoint1:
We aren't born Christians, Muslims, or catholics. You were born human
The labels they came later, stamped on you by institutions that profited of SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM.
Before the church taught you to bow, you looked up, not in worship but in wonders.
Before Bible told you what beauty was, you already felt it in the world, the rain, stars, moon, trees.
The world that asked for nothing yet gave you everything.
Before you were taught about sins, you already knew emphaty.
Before they made you fear hell, you already knew already feared hurting someone you love.
That is the truth no doctrine can rewrite.
Morality existed before mythology, we build God to explain ourselves and then forget we are the explanation.
We trade laws for authority, curiosity for commandments and freedom for faith.

Your moral compass is factory installed, if you need men written books as morality guidelines, then you've lost connection with your creator.


Besides, I'm no atheist, I don't just buy into religious Gods, those are men creation.

Blitzerz:
""Created"?
For atheist?

Replace the word "created" with "born".

Are you happy now? 😊

SMerchant:
Who created every human being?

Replace the word "created" with "born".

Are you happy now? 😊

LordReed:
The problem is no such standard exists nor can it because all morality is by necessity subjective. Morality doesn't exist independent of minds.

This understanding of what is subjective is faulty. What is subjective is entirely ruled by the opinion of each individual. A thing being agreed on by an aggregation of minds is not what makes anything subjective. That would actually lean towards such a thing being objectively true.

invincible007:
Created or evolved? (from an atheist perspective)

Replace the word "created" with "born".

Are you happy now? 😊

monex:
you are moving from atheism with you notion of created with consience.

Note that most of what we call conscience is learnt from the environment. Humans have an ability for empathy but we learn what and where to show empathy from society. a child raised alone in an isolated jungle will only know survival.

Replace the word "created" with "born".

Are you happy now? 😊

Offpoint1:
We aren't born Christians, Muslims, or catholics. You were born human
The labels they came later, stamped on you by institutions that profited of SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM.
Before the church taught you to bow, you looked up, not in worship but in wonders.
Before Bible told you what beauty was, you already felt it in the world, the rain, stars, moon, trees.
The world that asked for nothing yet gave you everything.
Before you were taught about sins, you already knew emphaty.
Before they made you fear hell, you already knew already feared hurting someone you love.
That is the truth no doctrine can rewrite.
Morality existed before mythology, we build God to explain ourselves and then forget we are the explanation.
We trade laws for authority, curiosity for commandments and freedom for faith.

Your moral compass is factory installed, if you need men written books as morality guidelines, then you've lost connection with your creator.


Besides, I'm no atheist, I don't just buy into religious Gods, those are men creation.

Very well said, except the bold. The world demands alot from us. And no, it does not give us everything. It barely even gives us peace of mind.

When it comes to Morality, the atheist is no where to be found.

To behave justly and morally you need the consciousness of the presence of a Holy watching higher being.
Conscience alone makes wrongs decisions believed to be right.
Only a conscience guided by Godliness can make the right decisions about life and living right.

EVERYONE NEEDS JESUS TO LIVE MORALLY.

JEHOVAH ALONE IS GOD.
No wailing can change that.

/
I don't even understand atheists.
What I know is that God is divine and religion is a business. Bible is a history book which has been heavily edited to fit the narratives.

NB: There are no practical christians in Nigeria. Majority of the churchgoers are looking for miracles to better their lives in the slave camp called Nigeria. Even the pastors in mannerism and ways of life have shown no confidence in the contents of the Bible.

/

seunmsg:
The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago. If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

You are not answering my question.

Millions of atheist see nothing wrong in their daughters building a career in onlyfans.
So u agree with them?
If u disagree, why? What makes u think a girl becoming onlyfans is an immoral act?

That's my question. Since millions of atheists' conscience says Yes. Why is your own saying No?

SIRTee15:
Since atheists reject God and His divine guidance, as well as revelation, I would like them to tell us the source of their morality.

What guides your conscience when it comes to good and evil? Is your moral framework subjective or objective? What is the foundational basis of your morality? How do you determine what is right or wrong? Is your morality dynamic and relative to time, location, and circumstances?

As a believer in the scriptures, my morality comes from the bible. If the Bible says an act is wrong, then it is wrong irrespective of external opinion or societal validation of such an act.

To the atheist, if you think a behaviour is immoral but society considers it good, how do you justify your stance? What makes you think your judgment is better than that of the majority?

How do you even know what is good or bad as a principle? For example, do you think fornication or homosexuality is evil? Do you think transgender identity should be considered moral? Do you think pride and lying are things that should be frowned upon? What even makes suicide or euthanasia wrong?

Atheists, do you think it is okay to indoctrinate your children with your morality, or should they be left alone to discover their own?
If your 16-year-old daughter starts taking contraceptive pills so she can have sex with her boyfriend, would you frown at it? On what grounds would you consider her behaviour immoral?

If your 21-year-old son tells you he is gay and wants to marry his partner, will you wish them marital bliss or attend their wedding if invited? If you object to such a union, where is that morality coming from?

If your 18-year-old son tells you he is transitioning to become a woman and plans to undergo surgery, on what grounds would you tell him he is wrong?

Why would it be wrong if your 25-year-old daughter tells you she does not plan to get married but intends to have children with different men and raise them without a father figure?

I am certain many atheists would struggle with some of these situations. No atheist here on nairaland will attend the wedding of his gay son or celebrate extramarital pregnancy of his daughter.

The truth some atheists conveniently ignore is that all moral frameworks in society have historically been influenced by religious traditions. People draw from these values in how they live their lives, build families, and relate to their communities.

Yet, some reject the existence of God while still engaging with moral ideas that have been shaped by religious thought.

This is something I reflected on years ago, and it led me to question whether atheism provides a sufficiently grounded explanation for morality or its simply delusion in disguise.

I would appreciate if atheist can give a convincing rebuttal as to the source of their morality independent of an imaginary sky daddy as they say.

Are you saying that if for example you were not exposed to the bible you would believe that murder and theft and fraud are all right?

DeepSight:
Are you saying that if for example you were not exposed to the bible you would believe that murder and theft and fraud are all right?

Things that harm others are easily identified as immoral and society agrees this is bad and should be prevented- murder, theft, cheating etc.

Now I'm talking about things that do not harm others but society still frown on.

If your son decides to be gay, how does that affect u as an atheist. Why will u be against such union, how does it harm u?
If u consider it immoral, then where is such concept coming from.

That's my question

SIRTee15:
Things that harm others are easily identified as immoral and society agrees this is bad and should be prevented- murder, theft, cheating etc.

Now I'm talking about things that do not harm others but society still frown on.

If your son decides to be gay, how does that affect u as an atheist. Why will u be against such union, how does it harm u?
If u consider it immoral, then where is such concept coming from.

That's my question

There are very few harmless things that can be classed as immoral in my opinion. In fact I can hardly think of one.
For me, being gay is unnatural, not necessarily immoral.

CodeTemplar:
Why do they doubt the biblical God most intensely?

Them no born dem well to doubt the moon God now, if dem no behead dem immediately😂😂😂

CodeTemplar:
Why do they doubt the biblical God most intensely?

The God of the bible has very weak claims to any respectable morality as he advocated many atrocities and abominations especially in the Old Testament.

Exactly, if there was no religion or moral teachings human beings will behave like animals where only the strong thrive and the weak suffer. If not for equality and fairness preached too you, nothing will stop you from punching a blind man and taking his food.
Atheists should know that it's only religion and the fear of the afterlife that prevents we humans from behaving like beasts.
Just watch Natgeo wild and you will understand that humans weren't born with conscience.
After all animals commit incest, don't love and kill each other due to them following only 'Instincts' and no preset law.
So please let's not cloud the truth based on personal sentiments.

DeepSight:
This understanding of what is subjective is faulty. What is subjective is entirely ruled by the opinion of each individual. A thing being agreed on by an aggregation of minds is not what makes anything subjective. That would actually lean towards such a thing being objectively true.

It doesn't make it less subjective because it is a plurality of minds because the subject can only exist in the mind.

I never said the agreement is what makes it subjective. It is subjective because it is a product of mind and can only exist in minds.

DeepSight:
The God of the bible has very weak claims to any respectable morality as he advocated many atrocities and abominations especially in the Old Testament.

behold, a higher god(deepsight) in a lower state( deepsight). Lol.
We have jesusjnr and now godsnr. Lol

This song will help us to remove atheist mindset and see reasons why We should believe in God and his words the Bible

Click on the link to play it

https://www.mureka.ai/song-detail/GAExmWrNxvhBdoG1zigZ2h?is_from_share=1&song_title=spoken-not-accident&singer=tosin-ajala


https://www.mureka.ai/song-detail/CDbUM17yPNxSPPKTncQ3hd?is_from_share=1&song_title=the-book-still-stands&singer=tosin-ajala

LordReed:
It doesn't make it less subjective because it is a plurality of minds because the subject can only exist in the mind.

I never said the agreement is what makes it subjective. It is subjective because it is a product of mind and can only exist in minds.

I get that. This is why I said "lean towards" being objective as opposed to saying such a thing is outrightly objective.

Nonetheless we have come across this with you before. Where you seem to resist the notion that what is subjective is what an individual mind believes. You cannot just say the mind in general, as a vague reference to any or all minds. Subjectivity is actually the personal individual mind. It's down to the individual.

This is at the root of my problem with the statement that morality is subjective. Because it would mean to each his own, and effectively mean that there is nothing like morality beyond what each person considers right or wrong.

Old testament laws are not contradictary it only shows that in the Bible there are distinct two covenant for two different era, one was has direct consequences and no forgiveness but the new testament offer grace, forgiveness and reconciliation.

It just like when the country was under military law and was abolish and moved to democracy law. Those constitution are different in nature and practices. That's how it is in Bible.

DeepSight:
The God of the bible has very weak claims to any respectable morality as he advocated many atrocities and abominations especially in the Old Testament.

tosine90:
Old testament laws are not contradictary it only shows that in the Bible there are distinct two covenant for two different era, one was has direct consequences and no forgiveness but the new testament offer grace, forgiveness and reconciliation.

It just like when the country was under military law and was abolish and moved to democracy law. Those constitution are different in nature and practices. That's how it is in Bible.

But is the same God not said to be the same today, yesterday and forever? Unchangeable? Immutable?

higgs:
Nigerians are some of the most immoral people I know. That is why our country is one of the most corrupt in the world. At the same time,we are one of the most religious places on earth. Back to the topic, religion is not needed for one to have a moral framework. A moral framework can exist without religion and the individual will function optimally as long as his moral values do not contradict the laws of the society in which he lives.This is why countries with a large population of atheists like China can have more law and order than very religious countries like Nigeria. If the ultimate validatior and source of morality is religion, then it can be argued that BH terrorists are not doing anything wrong because they are acting out of religious conviction (according to their misguided understanding) It is clear that the OP is not well trained in logical thinking and reasoning.

P.S I am not an atheist.

You are right, in fact, enlightenment is having a moral framework without religion, because religion breeds division, animosity and a false sense of superiority, when in reality, we all 'Are', none superior none inferior...It all depends on how we choose to share our energy, and the path we choose to take.

I keep asking the north with all their hypocritical religious morality laws, why is the north still the poorest, and most backward in Nigeria, where the most innocent blood is shed...this clearly shows you that religious itself is a problem in Nigeria, due to the way it's being practiced in the north, they see religion as something to die for, whereby religion is supposed to be something that brings harmony, peace, tolerance and love to mankind, while harnessing the mystics around us.

DeepSight:
But is the same God not said to be the same today, yesterday and forever? Unchangeable? Immutable?

a more interesting question is so if the government kills and wipes your family under military law, thee should be no consequences because we are now in a democracy and whatever the govt has done has passed away?

as an example - no pardon or compensation for saro wiwa is necessary?

somoene should have told the germans that when the jews were persecuted under nazi germany not democratic germany

GloriousGbola:
a more interesting question is so if the government kills and wipes your family under military law, thee should be no consequences because we are now in a democracy and whatever the govt has done has passed away?

as an example - no pardon or compensation for saro wiwa is necessary?

somoene should have told the germans that when the jews were persecuted under nazi germany not democratic germany

GBAM!!!!