₦airaland Forum

monex:
he was upright by societal standards of his time. he probably did things you would consider despicable by your standards today

It was based on his conscience Irrespective of change of time

All he did was this : Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God

Kobicove:
Every human being was created with a conscience, an inate ability to know right from wrong.

EXACTLY
"You don't need to be religious to be a good person. You actually need to be a good person to be religious."
If you actually pay attention to the Bible instead of the worship centers or the religious rulers, you would have noticed that it says "God searches the heart" and God is looking for "honest hearted ones." So you need to be honest hearted first in order to draw close to God not going to worship places and making huge donations or participation in many activities thinking it would be recompense for your hidden sins against man and God.

monex:
another fallacy. it isnt the humanity in you but your society and environment that defines your morality. There are folks who think killing gay people is wrong while some others think gay acts are not amoral and then others say it is wrong but does not deserve capital punishment.

all three above couldnt have gotten different morality from their humanity.

I agree to an extent with you. Have you considered that humanity in the context could actually mean environment?

Better still, kindly define "humanity".

Image123:
They have no morality. It flickers. The satan inside them just makes them so angry with God that doesn't exist. No be juju be that?

Religion has killed more people than any atheism believe.
Atheist can accommodate people that do not have same values as them.

But u see religious folks? They can deny you a job cos u don't go to church

Your brain must function alongside whatever you believe in.

Beeron:
I turned Atheist at 200 level back in the University, and that transition totally unlocked the logical being in me. Before the University I had silent questions about a supposed God or gods but at the University, Philosophy just blew my curiosity wide open leading to more and more curiousity to study/research more and more and till this day; I can tell you for a fact that, if you begin to read or study about the mystery of the world, people and the Universe from age 1 to age 100, you still will not fully get educated and know all — which is why Socrates (The most educated and wisest man that ever lived), said, "I know nothing." That said, let's get back to the question.



Morality is innate — you do NOT need religion to be moral or uphold morality, without morality, there will not be a safe society and even with morality and rampant rise of churches, society still need laws and law enforcement to punish violators of the laws in order to have a safe society. But then again;

If you as a human needs religion to be moral, you are a pathetic and terrible person from the start; why? Because no one ever told you, not to kill your mother, somehow, you knew it that it's wrong to kill your mother. That is morality in play.



That's my final answer but If you would stick around for some more knowledge.

Do you know that if you as a Christian use the Bible as your moral compass and follow everything the Bible says, you will be in jail today? The Bible is full of contradictions like:


1
Thou shalt not kill. —Exodus 20:13

********
Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side. and slay every man his brother…companion…neighbor. —Exodus 32:27




2

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. —Revelation 8:7

*******


And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. —Revelation 9:4


3

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord. —Proverbs 12:22

******
The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. —I Kings 22:23



4

For I am the Lord; I change not. —Malachi 3:6

******

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. —Exodus 32:14



5

For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. —Exodus 20:5

******

The Lord is good to all. —Psalms 145:9



6

For every man shall bear his own burden. —Galatians 6:2

*******

Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. —Galatians 6:2



7

Submit yourself to every ordinance of man…to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors. —I Peter 2:13

*******

We ought to obey God rather than men. —Acts 5:29


8

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. —Genesis 9:3

*******

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. —Romans 14:21


9

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4

*******

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. —Proverbs 26:5



10

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. —Matthew 10:34

**********

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. —John 16:33

SIRTee15:
Since atheists reject God and His divine guidance, as well as revelation, I would like them to tell us the source of their morality.

What guides your conscience when it comes to good and evil? Is your moral framework subjective or objective? What is the foundational basis of your morality? How do you determine what is right or wrong? Is your morality dynamic and relative to time, location, and circumstances?

As a believer in the scriptures, my morality comes from the bible. If the Bible says an act is wrong, then it is wrong irrespective of external opinion or societal validation of such an act.

To the atheist, if you think a behaviour is immoral but society considers it good, how do you justify your stance? What makes you think your judgment is better than that of the majority?

How do you even know what is good or bad as a principle? For example, do you think fornication or homosexuality is evil? Do you think transgender identity should be considered moral? Do you think pride and lying are things that should be frowned upon? What even makes suicide or euthanasia wrong?

Atheists, do you think it is okay to indoctrinate your children with your morality, or should they be left alone to discover their own?
If your 16-year-old daughter starts taking contraceptive pills so she can have sex with her boyfriend, would you frown at it? On what grounds would you consider her behaviour immoral?

If your 21-year-old son tells you he is gay and wants to marry his partner, will you wish them marital bliss or attend their wedding if invited? If you object to such a union, where is that morality coming from?

If your 18-year-old son tells you he is transitioning to become a woman and plans to undergo surgery, on what grounds would you tell him he is wrong?

Why would it be wrong if your 25-year-old daughter tells you she does not plan to get married but intends to have children with different men and raise them without a father figure?

I am certain many atheists would struggle with some of these situations. No atheist here on nairaland will attend the wedding of his gay son or celebrate extramarital pregnancy of his daughter.

The truth some atheists conveniently ignore is that all moral frameworks in society have historically been influenced by religious traditions. People draw from these values in how they live their lives, build families, and relate to their communities.

Yet, some reject the existence of God while still engaging with moral ideas that have been shaped by religious thought.

This is something I reflected on years ago, and it led me to question whether atheism provides a sufficiently grounded explanation for morality or its simply delusion in disguise.

I would appreciate if atheist can give a convincing rebuttal as to the source of their morality independent of an imaginary sky daddy as they say.

We aren't born Christians, Muslims, or catholics. You were born human
The labels they came later, stamped on you by institutions that profited of SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM.
Before the church taught you to bow, you looked up, not in worship but in wonders.
Before Bible told you what beauty was, you already felt it in the world, the rain, stars, moon, trees.
The world that asked for nothing yet gave you everything.
Before you were taught about sins, you already knew emphaty.
Before they made you fear hell, you already knew already feared hurting someone you love.
That is the truth no doctrine can rewrite.
Morality existed before mythology, we build God to explain ourselves and then forget we are the explanation.
We trade laws for authority, curiosity for commandments and freedom for faith.

Your moral compass is factory installed, if you need men written books as morality guidelines, then you've lost connection with your creator.


Besides, I'm no atheist, I don't just buy into religious Gods, those are men creation.

Beeron:
I turned Atheist at 200 level back in the University, and that transition totally unlocked the logical being in me. Before the University I had silent questions about a supposed God or gods but at the University, Philosophy just blew my curiosity wide open leading to more and more curiousity to study/research more and more and till this day; I can tell you for a fact that, if you begin to read or study about the mystery of the world, people and the Universe from age 1 to age 100, you still will not fully get educated and know all — which is why Socrates (The most educated and wisest man that ever lived), said, "I know nothing." That said, let's get back to the question.



Morality is innate — you do NOT need religion to be moral or uphold morality, without morality, there will not be a safe society and even with morality and rampant rise of churches, society still need laws and law enforcement to punish violators of the laws in order to have a safe society. But then again;

If you as a human needs religion to be moral, you are a pathetic and terrible person from the start; why? Because no one ever told you, not to kill your mother, somehow, you knew it that it's wrong to kill your mother. That is morality in play.



That's my final answer but If you would stick around for some more knowledge.

Do you know that if you as a Christian use the Bible as your moral compass and follow everything the Bible says, you will be in jail today? The Bible is full of contradictions like:


1
Thou shalt not kill. —Exodus 20:13

********
Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side. and slay every man his brother…companion…neighbor. —Exodus 32:27




2

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. —Revelation 8:7

*******


And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. —Revelation 9:4


3

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord. —Proverbs 12:22

******
The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. —I Kings 22:23



4

For I am the Lord; I change not. —Malachi 3:6

******

And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. —Exodus 32:14



5

For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. —Exodus 20:5

******

The Lord is good to all. —Psalms 145:9



6

For every man shall bear his own burden. —Galatians 6:2

*******

Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. —Galatians 6:2



7

Submit yourself to every ordinance of man…to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors. —I Peter 2:13

*******

We ought to obey God rather than men. —Acts 5:29


8

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. —Genesis 9:3

*******

It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. —Romans 14:21


9

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4

*******

Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. —Proverbs 26:5



10

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. —Matthew 10:34

**********

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. —John 16:33

The bible contradicted itself more times than one can imagine.

Which is a solid proof that the bible was written by a group of men who wanted to imprison the minds of the people at that time.

One question nobody has been able to answer is this... "do female angels exist? If no, will any woman go to heaven"

Cause and effect. If I do bad, I get bad. If I do good I get good. I treat everyone how I would want to be treated.

Very simple.. I apply this principle in all areas of life, whether I'm being watched or not.

EnemyofGod4:
A fool says in his heart there's God.

I will ask you one question and if you can answer me, I will answer all your useless questions.

Who created God ? I mean how did God came into existence ?

Where was God when he created heaven and earth ?
Tell me ,where is hellfire located ?

P.S. I'm not the person you were quoting not do I know what you are arguing about. Just a few quips.
Hellfire exists only in the doctrines of some religious denominations. It's a construct of some foreign powers and a corruption of the religion they claim to have fostered unto people. It doesn't exist in any of the religious books and I don't care to argue about it further.
The other questions might be answered when man reaches or surpasses the end of space. We as a species with all the intelligence and technology that are yet to comprehend the fringes at the bottom of a man's gown, can not therefore claim to be a know-it-all of the entirety of the being adorning that said gown.
At this point, all arguments about knowing God fully is akin to attempts to explain the colour yellow to a man born blind.
Meanwhile, the absence of (a comprehension of available) evidence is not the evidence of absence.

richmond500:
Religion has killed more people than any atheism believe.
Atheist can accommodate people that do not have same values as them.

But u see religious folks? They can deny you a job cos u don't go to church

You don't know much i don't blame you. Are you an upcoming atheist?

tosine90:
How can a sane person be an atheist in the first place untill they can answer this question. They should re examine their stands.

Can a art exist without an artist
Can a movie exist without a producer
Can a bread exist without a baker
Can food exist without a cook or chef
Can a phone exist without a maker
Can a song exist without a musician
Can a car exit without the manufacturer

Then how can you accept humans exist without a maker
And the world exists with the Creator
Can a footprint exist on a beach with someone who make it.
The fact that we can see God doesn't mean it doesn't exist or an imagination of man.

No wonder the Bible says a fool says in his heart there is no God

Think 🤔

You might be right from your own views but the real atheists believe:
1.there's a source of all creation which is unknown.
2. Based on human experiences and encounters they conclude there's an imaginary being drawing lines between humanity.
3. They focus more on the betterment of humanity more than the betterment of some imaginary being.
Only the foolish atheists argue based on science but the true ones are after the imposition of religion on people with an imaginary believe there's a source of all creation .
For instance, a real atheists would argue that religion has divided the world right from the realization of an imaginary God. They argue with facts that homosexuality got out of hands from the Romans and their catholics blah blah blah and when you check history you realize it's true. The Islam brought about ‘Jihadism' and sharia laws, the Buddhism brought about insubordination a Buddhist can barely interact with non Buddhist.....so you see the dangers or effects the imaginary God has created all in the name of religion.
Additionally, some argue that if there's a God who's made humanity why then did He not make the world so perfectly if he Had or Has the power and all it takes blah blah blah blah.
When you listen to real atheists you learn a lot and you understand that they're not after the fact there's no God but they are after the effects religion has cultivated towards humanity all in the name of “there's a God ”.

higgs:
Nigerians are some of the most immoral people I know. That is why our country is one of the most corrupt in the world. At the same time,we are one of the most religious places on earth. Back to the topic, religion is not needed for one to have a moral framework. A moral framework can exist without religion and the individual will function optimally as long as his moral values do not contradict the laws of the society in which he lives.This is why countries with a large population of atheists like China can have more law and order than very religious countries like Nigeria. If the ultimate validatior and source of morality is religion, then it can be argued that BH terrorists are not doing anything wrong because they are acting out of religious conviction (according to their misguided understanding) It is clear that the OP is not well trained in logical thinking and reasoning.

P.S I am not an atheist.

I know you are not an atheist. Your view on this topic is very explanatory and well analyzed. However, your view on God is quite confusing and very irrational because we all live now to know of this same God. He exist all the time and whatever exist is still Him. It's a loop!

seunmsg:
The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago. If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

Who get morality no Dey support APC.

No atom of humanity/morality in anything that is supporting a government that looks the other way while terrorists are killing its citizens.

I just know say na people like you that are morally bankrupt go full this thread.

Kobicove:
Every human being was created with a conscience, an inate ability to know right from wrong.

Created or evolved? (from an atheist perspective)

Urgent1Million:
You have asked a lot of questions.
But you've failed to ask the one question that'd render all your questions useless.
If everything and everyone must come from something, what did the something come from?
If you believe the maker existed out of nothing, could the acclaimed "made" have come out of nothing?
Why do you think there was a maker who came out of nothing but argue that the "made" couldn't have come out of nothing?
Is it because some book said so? A book that was written by the "made" who wasn't anywhere near the "maker" or the time of making?

The Bible doesn't focus on the origin of God but says God's exists or has existed from "ages to ages" meaning it was incomprehensible to humans at this point how old or how long God is or would exist.
e.g. there are organisms that their entire lifespan is in one day or some a week. How can they comprehend the life of a man or a turtle or a shark that lived for one or two centuries or even up to 400 years?
How do you think it'll be possible for micro animals like tardigrades to comprehend the existence or size of a man, elephant or whale?
God might as well be what we're living on or inside of just as there are animals living on our skin or inside our bodies.
Religious institutions might have caused much harm at some points but they don't define God or what a believe in God is.

You don’t believe people can be good without the threat of punishment?

Morality is not derived from religion

EnemyofGod4:
Leave atheist alone, and focus your imaginary God,

Forget about the morality of Atheist,
All what Atheist want from you is to prove to them the existence of God,

Let me tell you the truth,

There's no ,concretable, reliable ,approvable and acceptable evidence of God existence.

God, Jesus Christ, Angeles,Satan and demons doesn't exist.theres no evidence of their existence.

OP.,free yourself from religious bondage.

Listen, God is a SPIRIT. You want to know about a spirit, then you have to be spiritual. Spirituality transcends above human logical intelligence, which is our limitation. Let us forget the almighty God for now and take look at Etheric plains of existence, try to activate your extra sensory perceptions, Esoteric, astra/metaphysical factors. I mean, you are only limited to the physical aspect of existence. Men who crossed and saw other realms, saw somethings words can not qualify to give explanations.
Another thing is TRUTH most times is a hidden knowledge which cannot be accessed via experiments but can only be gotten by revelations.

Humans seem to be birthed with a subconscious concept of what is right or wrong even before society shapes it through laws and precepts. That, in my opinion steers the action of humans relative to the concept of morality before any external stimuli (such as adherence to the dictates of a religion) comes to play

From birth, without anyone telling you, without being subservient to any laws, you instinctively know somethings aren't right (like murder for example); it just doesn't "feel" right hence you desist.

Let's not also forget that the concept of morality is relative. What is forbidden in one society is accepted in another. The old testament pronounced death to witches, sexual deviants etc. while the new testament abhors it. Time, evolution, new thoughts and philosophies play a part in defining so-called morality of people. If what was once forbidden is now accepted or vice versa does it make the act intrinsically wrong or right ab initio?

Addressing morality from a religious point of view leads to a rabbit hole I wouldn't want to explore (so many angles to the subject matter.

ednut1:
Morality is not derived from religion

I think Evolution is the right answer.

seunmsg:
The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago. If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

Kadoso Mutairu aka seunmsg!! Awon eleyi!! So you be atheist? Na wa o.

God doesn't need a creator to exist. He eternal. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is not bound by space, matter or time to exist. He stands outside of it

obinna58:
Amazing
But god can exist without a creator😏

Kobicove:
Every human being was created with a conscience, an inate ability to know right from wrong.

Who created every human being?

Kobicove:
Every human being was created with a conscience, an inate ability to know right from wrong.

I agree, however some people's conscience are long dead, and so the wrong they do seems right to them.

Jesus makes the difference bro.

Kobicove:
Every human being was created with a conscience, an inate ability to know right from wrong.

Stop assuming things you don't know because this is clearly false. Conscience (the ability to discern between good and bad) is a trait learnt through conscious teaching and interaction with others in the society. Nobody was born with it.

@allthingsgood

The purpose of religion is to brainwash and put humanity in check by a few elites that is why it is used by the government and monarch like the British empire where the pope have an identical power as the king or queen .. a true religion will never force you or try to convert you humans are suppose to have a freedom of choice . Most people are religious religious because it is what they made to believe from birth and know nothing else

Kobicove:
Every human being was created with a conscience, an inate ability to know right from wrong.

""Created"?
For atheist?

tosine90:
God doesn't need a creator to exist. He eternal. He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is not bound by space, matter or time to exist. He stands outside of it

Then your own examples are flawed

Miggs:
Lol


If anyone needs religion to be "moral"

If anyone needs religion inorder not to commit atrocities against other humans & not destroy the environment,then that person is a piece of s-h-i-t,scumbag

if you were raised in the jungle by animals your "fellow humans" would be animals. You would eat other animals without religion. You would be a cannibal and be proud about it. Thats what u would be without religion

blingxx:
The purpose of religion is to brainwash and put humanity in check by a few elites that is why it is used by the government and monarch like the British empire where the pope have an identical power as the king or queen .. a true religion will never force you or try to convert you humans are suppose to have a freedom of choice . Most people are religious religious because it is what they made to believe from birth and knod nothing else

Meanwhile are using the education the so called religion brought to type rubbish

I am Christian and I find it disturbing that without Christianity, some Christians don't feel the need to do good.

It's crazy.

You'd just do what is wrong if you can get away with it?

tosine90:
Now the you admitted nothing can come into existence without an effect or effort of something.

Now where did God came from can't be interpretated by our limited humans brains. The Bible says God is eternal, from everlasting to everlasting, He is the beginning and the end.
He is not limited by time, space and matter. He created everything, He existed outside those things. It just like the manufacturer of a computer is not inside the computer but outside of it. So the computer can't feel and understand how to be outside it own system or environment so that why our brain shut down when we ask that question. No answer

Thinks.

The bolded is the usual path taken by the religious.
It is incomprehensible.
It is a mystery.
We can not understand it.
That's why it must be god.
Religion shuts down the thought process.
But we all know that the things that were thought incomprehensible and attributed to god are constantly being demystified by science and innovation.
Thunder and lightening were attributed to god speaking.
But we know better.
It was supposed that beyond the clouds lie heaven.
But we know better now.

Science digs into the things that appear incomprehensible.
And it's so lame to use just what the bible says in an attempt to prove the existence of god.
The Bible is nothing but a collection of stories about a certain people called rhe israelites.
Can you folks not try to use something concrete to prove the existence of god?