₦airaland Forum

tosine90:
How can a sane person be an atheist in the first place untill they can answer this question. They should re examine their stands.

Can a art exist without an artist
Can a movie exist without a producer
Can a bread exist without a baker
Can food exist without a cook or chef
Can a phone exist without a maker
Can a song exist without a musician
Can a car exit without the manufacturer

Then how can you accept humans exist without a maker
And the world exists without the Creator
Can a footprint exist on a beach without someone who make it.
The fact that we can see God doesn't mean it doesn't exist or an imagination of man.

No wonder the Bible says a fool says in his heart there is no God

Think 🤔

seunmsg:
➜The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago.
➜ If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

Estimates of the number of people who died under Mao Zedong's rule (1949–1976) vary widely, but most historians and demographers place the figure between 40 and 80 million deaths, largely driven by the Great Leap Forward and subsequent famine. While some estimates are lower (around 15-30 million) and others higher, these deaths resulted from a combination of man-made famine, forced labor, and direct executions, making it one of the deadliest periods in 20th-century history.

Estimates of the number of people who died under Joseph Stalin's rule (1924–1953) vary significantly, generally ranging from 6 million to over 20 million, depending on whether the figures include famine victims, deaths in forced labor camps (Gulag), and executions.

Following the opening of Soviet archives in 1991, most historians converged on a lower, yet still massive, figure of roughly 9 million direct victims, while broader estimates including famine and preventable deaths often cite 20 million or more.

Estimates of deaths under Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un are high, driven primarily by famine, political repression, and prison camp conditions. Under Kim Jong Il (1994–2011), an estimated 1 million to over 3 million people died during the "Arduous March" famine in the late 1990s. Under Kim Jong Un (2011–present), while a famine of that scale has not been officially confirmed, hundreds of thousands to millions are believed to have suffered from chronic malnutrition, with deaths exacerbated by harsh, targeted political purges, executions, and prison camp conditions

reverendfather:
You are absolutely wrong on this, no one is born with this ability, we are birthed a clean slate, the community shapes and molds you into a being with conscience.
That conscience is a derivative from that same book you claimed was published 6000 years ago.

DeepSight:
Relative to an individual. Not the way you are using it. You are using it as though one can be referring to mind in an abstract sense away from the individual. The word means mind dependent and that mind is the mind of an individual.

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Extracted:
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In logic and philosophy, the term subjective refers to any claim or perception whose truth-value depends on the internal state, perspective, or "subject" of the person making it.

​When you say your symptoms are "meaning subjective," you are highlighting that they exist within your own consciousness rather than as an external, verifiable object.

​1. Subjective vs. Objective in Logic

​Subjective: Dependent on the mind. (e.g., "The food tastes metallic." ) This is a statement about your internal experience.

​Objective: Independent of the mind. (e.g., "The pill is 20mg." ) This remains true regardless of who observes it. . .

geoworldedu:
➜ I am not an atheist, neither am I religious. But I don't think a god is needed to be moral. Whatever rules and laws are made for a country, that's enough to build up your morality. For example, in Nigeria, lesbianism and gay is not allowed.
➜ it is written in the constitution then it is enough.

sulaak:
You don't need religion or another man to be moral. Respect for your fellow man and his property is enshrined in all cultures. I still find it hard to understand how Nigeria is one of the most religious countries in the world, yet one of the most corrupt societies.[size=8pt][/size]

Image123:
You don't know much i don't blame you. Are you an upcoming atheist?

LordReed:
Bro your extract makes it clear it is a matter that resides only in the mind of the individuals involved. There isn't an external source.

seunmsg:
The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago. If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

uchennamani:
➜Morality doesn’t require belief in your God or any god to exist. Atheists base their morality in reason, empathy, and shared human experience. If God is the reason for your morality, you are a very, very bad person.
➜ When atheists rejects lying or violence to humans or other vices, it is not because Bible or Quran or any religion says so, it is because such acts erode trusts, harm people and damage communities.

Estimates of the number of people who died under Mao Zedong's rule (1949–1976) vary widely, but most historians and demographers place the figure between 40 and 80 million deaths, largely driven by the Great Leap Forward and subsequent famine. While some estimates are lower (around 15-30 million) and others higher, these deaths resulted from a combination of man-made famine, forced labor, and direct executions, making it one of the deadliest periods in 20th-century history.

Estimates of the number of people who died under Joseph Stalin's rule (1924–1953) vary significantly, generally ranging from 6 million to over 20 million, depending on whether the figures include famine victims, deaths in forced labor camps (Gulag), and executions.

Following the opening of Soviet archives in 1991, most historians converged on a lower, yet still massive, figure of roughly 9 million direct victims, while broader estimates including famine and preventable deaths often cite 20 million or more.

Estimates of deaths under Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un are high, driven primarily by famine, political repression, and prison camp conditions. Under Kim Jong Il (1994–2011), an estimated 1 million to over 3 million people died during the "Arduous March" famine in the late 1990s. Under Kim Jong Un (2011–present), while a famine of that scale has not been officially confirmed, hundreds of thousands to millions are believed to have suffered from chronic malnutrition, with deaths exacerbated by harsh, targeted political purges, executions, and prison camp conditions

uchennamani:
Morality doesn’t require belief in your God or any god to exist. Atheists base their morality in reason, empathy, and shared human experience. If God is the reason for your morality, you are a very, very bad person.

When atheists rejects lying or violence to humans or other vices, it is not because Bible or Quran or any religion says so, it is because such acts erode trusts, harm people and damage communities.

Urgent1Million:
There's a huge difference between morality and theism aka religion.
One doesn't need to believe in a god to know what is right and what is wrong.
Religion calls the wrong sin.
The law calls it a crime.
Both theist and atheists are subject to the law of the land so they know the rights from the wrongs.
Morality is rooted in empathy and rational standards. That is not necessarily religion.
If a feel pain when my property is taken away, I will not take other people's properties and will discourage others from taking people's properties.
I don't need any religion to know that.
It's just humanity.

Beeron:
I turned Atheist at 200 level back in the University, and that transition totally unlocked the logical being in me. Before the University I had silent questions about a supposed God or gods but at the University, Philosophy just blew my curiosity wide open leading to more and more curiousity to study/research more and more and till this day; I can tell you for a fact that, if you begin to read or study about the mystery of the world, people and the Universe from age 1 to age 100, you still will not fully get educated and know all — which is why Socrates (The most educated and wisest man that ever lived), said, "I know nothing." That said, let's get back to the question.



Morality is innate — you do NOT need religion to be moral or uphold morality, without morality, there will not be a safe society and even with morality and rampant rise of churches, society still need laws and law enforcement to punish violators of the laws in order to have a safe society. But then again;

If you as a human needs religion to be moral, you are a pathetic and terrible person from the start; why? Because no one ever told you, not to kill your mother, somehow, you knew it that it's wrong to kill your mother. That is morality in play.



That's my final answer but If you would stick around for some more knowledge.

Do you know that if you as a Christian use the Bible as your moral compass and follow everything the Bible says, you will be in jail today? The Bible is full of contradictions like:


1
Thou shalt not kill. —Exodus 20:13

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Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side. and slay every man his brother…companion…neighbor. —Exodus 32:27




2

The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. —Revelation 8:7

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And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. —Revelation 9:4


3

Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord. —Proverbs 12:22

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The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. —I Kings 22:23



4

For I am the Lord; I change not. —Malachi 3:6

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And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people. —Exodus 32:14



5

For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation. —Exodus 20:5

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The Lord is good to all. —Psalms 145:9



6

For every man shall bear his own burden. —Galatians 6:2

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Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. —Galatians 6:2



7

Submit yourself to every ordinance of man…to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors. —I Peter 2:13

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We ought to obey God rather than men. —Acts 5:29


8

Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. —Genesis 9:3

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It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall. —Romans 14:21


9

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4

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Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. —Proverbs 26:5



10

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. —Matthew 10:34

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These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. —John 16:33

SIRTee15:
Ok no problem. If u telling me you can derive my morality outside of God then tell me is it right eat animals as food. Did animals tell u it's ok to eat them as food. Why is it moral to consume animals as food when they never gave us such permission. And why do some people called vegetarians consider it immoral to do so.

tosine90:
How can a sane person be an atheist in the first place untill they can answer this question. They should re examine their stands.

Can a art exist without an artist
Can a movie exist without a producer
Can a bread exist without a baker
Can food exist without a cook or chef
Can a phone exist without a maker
Can a song exist without a musician
Can a car exit without the manufacturer

Then how can you accept humans exist without a maker
And the world exists without the Creator
Can a footprint exist on a beach without someone who make it.
The fact that we can see God doesn't mean it doesn't exist or an imagination of man.

No wonder the Bible says a fool says in his heart there is no God

Think 🤔

SIRTee15:
So if u relocate to a country where gay and lesbianism is legal them it's ok to be lesbian and gay?

So if u raise your daughter in Nigeria, she can't be lesbian but if u raise your son in UK , then it's ok for him to be gay.

It's like some of u atheist don't think things thru before saying it.

Image123:
They have no morality. It flickers. The satan inside them just makes them so angry with God that doesn't exist. No be juju be that?

musicwriter:
You have a whole lot of misconception about what you're talking about because religion has really destroyed your sense of sound reasoning.

The reason we consume animals and consider it good, while vegetarians consider it immortal IS NOT BECAUSE OF A GOD but because of what I told you in my first post. I SAID THAT IT'S WE HUMANS THAT SET THE CONTEXT FOR GOOD OR BAD.

Therefore, something maybe good to one group but bad to another group. But both would be right because culture has set the context for good or bad by the two groups.

Something maybe good in one place but perceived bad in another location, in fact, something good to you may be bad to me, vice versa. But it doesn't mean that either of us is absolutely wrong.

There's no absolute good/bad or right/wrong UNTIL the motive and or context is examined WITHIN A CULTURE OR GROUP. That's why judges sometimes will set a murderer free because he/she committed murder for the right reason under the ethics of a given society.

For example; popular US rapper, Snoop Dogg, once shot someone dead with a gun but when the case went to court, he was declared innocent by the judge. And he was set fee.

Why? Because he committed murder for the right reason!

I am sorry, but religion make adults think with childish one-sided brain and reasoning, so I doubt you'll understand what I just said.

But if you're really interested in understanding your own topic, go read chapter 6 of the book: what is satan? What is Lucifer? The biggest secret in the world. That would give you an understanding of your own topic. Read the PDF version only. You'll find a source to it on one of my threads

SIRTee15:
Since atheists reject God and His divine guidance, as well as revelation, I would like them to tell us the source of their morality.

What guides your conscience when it comes to good and evil? Is your moral framework subjective or objective? What is the foundational basis of your morality? How do you determine what is right or wrong? Is your morality dynamic and relative to time, location, and circumstances?

As a believer in the scriptures, my morality comes from the bible. If the Bible says an act is wrong, then it is wrong irrespective of external opinion or societal validation of such an act.

To the atheist, if you think a behaviour is immoral but society considers it good, how do you justify your stance? What makes you think your judgment is better than that of the majority?

How do you even know what is good or bad as a principle? For example, do you think fornication or homosexuality is evil? Do you think transgender identity should be considered moral? Do you think pride and lying are things that should be frowned upon? What even makes suicide or euthanasia wrong?

Atheists, do you think it is okay to indoctrinate your children with your morality, or should they be left alone to discover their own?
If your 16-year-old daughter starts taking contraceptive pills so she can have sex with her boyfriend, would you frown at it? On what grounds would you consider her behaviour immoral?

If your 21-year-old son tells you he is gay and wants to marry his partner, will you wish them marital bliss or attend their wedding if invited? If you object to such a union, where is that morality coming from?

If your 18-year-old son tells you he is transitioning to become a woman and plans to undergo surgery, on what grounds would you tell him he is wrong?

Why would it be wrong if your 25-year-old daughter tells you she does not plan to get married but intends to have children with different men and raise them without a father figure?

I am certain many atheists would struggle with some of these situations. No atheist here on nairaland will attend the wedding of his gay son or celebrate extramarital pregnancy of his daughter.

The truth some atheists conveniently ignore is that all moral frameworks in society have historically been influenced by religious traditions. People draw from these values in how they live their lives, build families, and relate to their communities.

Yet, some reject the existence of God while still engaging with moral ideas that have been shaped by religious thought.

This is something I reflected on years ago, and it led me to question whether atheism provides a sufficiently grounded explanation for morality or its simply delusion in disguise.

I would appreciate if atheist can give a convincing rebuttal as to the source of their morality independent of an imaginary sky daddy as they say.

DeepSight:
But that's exactly what I am saying. And i am further saying that if morality is subjective by that definition, then there is nothing like morality beyond opinion. In short every take is as valid as another, Hitler's take on mass murder as valid as yours.

seunmsg:
The humanity in me defines my morality and not anything written in some books published over 6000 years ago. If your morality is defined by religion and the usual threat of hell fire, then you have no morality at all. You should do good because it's the right thing for you to do as a human being and not because of any religious code.

Image123:
They have no morality. It flickers. The satan inside them just makes them so angry with God that doesn't exist. No be juju be that?

geoworldedu:
I think it's because the biblical god sounds the most stupid of them all. He is too loud and vain.

SIRTee15:
Your 14 year old son watching porn is not harming anyone. Your daughter having sex with her boyfriend at 16 is not hurting anybody if anything she's making someone very happy.

So is it immoral for your 14 year son to watch porn, would u allow your daughter have sex with her boyfriend at 16. If your answer is no. Then I need to know why u consider it immoral. And what is the source of your morality.

That is my question. Stop answering questions I never asked u.

richmond500:
during my NYSC days, a woman refused to give me an apartment to rent cos I am not a Christian.

I have been casted many times cos I don't believe in God. Christianity is a cult movement and does not accommodate anyone that does not serve their deity

Urgent1Million:
➜ There's a huge difference between morality and theism aka religion.
One doesn't need to believe in a god to know what is right and what is wrong. Religion calls the wrong sin. The law calls it a crime. Both theist and atheists are subject to the law of the land so they know the rights from the wrongs. [b]Morality is rooted in empathy and rational standards. That is not necessarily religion.
➜ If a feel pain when my property is taken away, I will not take other people's properties and will discourage others from taking people's properties. I don't need any religion to know that. It's just humanity.

LordReed:
That is the unfortunate limitation of the nature of morality, it will always be by individuals attempting to persuade others of the validity of their position even when such positions are harmful to others.

Kobojunkie:
1. First of all, I disagree with your claim that morality is necessarily rooted in empathy and rational standards. Rather, morality is instead, as decided upon by the majority or those who wield the most power. Case and point Afgahistan or any of the other Islamic countries out there, where it is lawful for an Islamic to kill a non-believer, while an Islamist who kills a fellow Islamist can face a fine, or be forced to manumit a slave as punishment.🤔

geoworldedu:
Like I said before I'm not an atheist and I'm not a religious gullible like you.

Now back to what you said: After reading through the book of Otem, I discovered that even your so-called morality is subjective. Let me quickly run you down memory lane. In ancient Israel, these are things that are moral:

1. Killing your son or daughter whenever a voice in your head called 'God' or 'Jehovah' is asking for him as a sacrifice. Examples of those who attempted this are Abraham and Jephthah.

2. Honour Killing. That's killing your disobedient son, daughter, sister or brother. For example, Jehovah asked them to release their stubborn children to be stoned to death in the bible. Till today moral Islamists are still performing honour killings. You can briefly 'Ai' that fact.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 NIV (New International Version)
They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death.

3. When your brother dies, you are to marry his wife. It is a moral thing to the Israelites back then. It looks immoral to us down here.

4. Killing people who are working on Saturday (Sabbath day). Moses asked his God what to do to such a man. Moses was very moral. He ended up ordering the death of such person.

Now let me tell you what happens when you change base here on earth. Many things about you will change. Your orientation about life, what you consider moral and immoral. Sex here is considered highly immoral, but in many parts of the world, it is just what people can do as living being.

Let me ask you a question. Is Masturbation Moral or immoral?

You can ask AI, let's see what the response will be.

DeepSight:
This is helpful; and provides clarity on where you stand.

I would have asked if then it is okay in your view for someone with say a sadistic mindset to attempt to persuade others into his moral views which involve sadism, but I sense that would be a stupid question in light of your obviously decent nature and standards for yourself. But the itch to ask this kind of question is from a wonder as to whether looking at everything coldly and dispassionately, we may say that the universe is unbothered what particular moral values anyone takes.

SIRTee15:
Unseen that this guy didn't answer my question but ran to bible to start giving exegesis of what he knew nothing about.

My bible tells me all forms of sexual behaviour outside of your WIFE is a sin. Masturbation is a sin because it's self pleasure and we all know masturbation is fueled by lustful thoughts. And lust is a sin.

U see how I answer your question without long talk.

Now answer my own question. If your 18 year old tells u she wants to become onlyfans model, will u frown at it.
If yes, what is the source of your morality. I want to know.