₦airaland Forum

Samantha125:
If you can't answer my question, then this discussion is over... You can't even backup your beliefs with facts.

I am sorry. I won't define simple terms for you. No. I won't. It's just funny that you are really struggling to understand a simple fact that a Christian belongs to a community that has her own traditions and so can do traditional marriage without interfering with their religion beliefs.

It's also interesting that you think a traditional marriage and Christianity are parallel lines. Very weird really.

All my attempts to help you failed cos you have closed off your mind on your wrong assumptions.

Samantha125:
But you are idolizing Jesus and what is a fetish practice according to your understanding?

The olden ways didn't practice Christianity, so why not do these introductions and celebrations the Christian way since you guys consider traditional practices as fetish and diabolical? Because that traditional introduction also has a spiritual significance... Didn't your pastor tell you that everything is spiritual?

Yes, I worship Jesus.
I’m refering to anything that involves effigies of another being or object that you worship, with blood and other things, as fetish.

To clarify you, not all traditions are fetish as you're making it sound.
Traditional marriages are one of those cultural practices that are peculiar to different tribes in Nigeria, and it doesn't have to involve bloods of animals or humans, and idol worshipping. Though, cultures are different.

But, more modern traditional marriages are just parties, getting to know families, exchanging gifts and being welcomed to the into the community by the people.

Samantha125:
There's still some spiritual significance to it, dig deeper... I once came across a video whereby one Nigerian man said something about how they use the Kola nut to recognise their ancestors... I'm sure they didn't just wake up one day and decided to use the Kola nut because it's prestigious and shows that you're the true son of the soil... Why not use the bible instead of a Kola nut as a Christian? Is the bible not prestigious enough for you guys?

Kolanut is revered by most Igbos whether Christians or non Christians. That reverence makes them to use it for special occasions like entertainment of visitors, oblations to deities, for prayers, for peace deals, etc.

The Igbos have an adage that if a deity disturbs them too much, they will point it the tree it was carved from.

Humans formed these traditions. Humans modify the traditions. Humans change the traditions. One could choose to use theirs as a form of worship at shrines. Another chooses to use theirs to entertain visitors.

Samantha125:
Jesus is an idol, making you guys also idol worshippers...🤣🤣🤣... Him being white doesn't make any difference...😃😃😃... Many of our forefathers were killed and forced to worship him when the colonisers arrived in Africa.

And how is it that not every traditional practice is religious and spiritually binding but every Christianity practice is religious and spiritually binding? make that make sense to me.

"Jesus is an idol, making you guys also idol worshippers...🤣🤣🤣"

Jesus is not an idol. According to the Bible, Jesus is the express image of the invisible Godhead. Anyone who wants to know what God is like will simply look at Jesus and get a bit of God

.." Him being white doesn't make any difference...😃"

The historical Jesus of Nazareth wasn't white or European. He was Jewish from the Palestine in Asia.
The gospel moved from Jerusalem to every other parts of the world. In Bible times, places like Egypt, Ethiopia did get a touch of the gospel message before some European countries.

Lord Ragnar and all his Vikings were from Europe and raided Christian communities, worshipped idols until Christianity got to them. Christianity is not native to Europe same way it wasn't native to Africans.

"Many of our forefathers were killed and forced to worship him when the colonisers arrived in Africa."

You are right about the killing of our forefathers. That is true. But what is also true is that there were genuine missionaries who came to do good in Africa. The benefits are all there for us to see. There were also the bad eggs who came solely for trade and got the support from some of our people who traded their own.

"And how is it that not every traditional practice is religious and spiritually binding but every Christianity practice is religious and spiritually binding? make that make sense to me."

Our traditions are just part of our way of living, eating, education, cooking, religion, marriages, family systems etc. Not all our traditions have spiritual connotation. Our marriages, our education, our foods, our farming, our languages etc have no deep spiritual connotation. Just basic human acts.

Also not everything in the Bible is strictly spiritual.
The Old testament had moral codes, civil codes and ceremonial codes. The civil codes were given mostly to help keep order in the society and not strictly spiritual.

Covering ones faeces after defecation will stop epidemic and may not become sin against God.

So you wrote all this book to defend your hypocrisy? Don't tell me about that same Bible that is being used to brainwash and manipulate you guys, Jesus is an idol and traditional marriage is as spiritual as Christian marriage is... If you're not a traditionalist, you shouldn't have any business practicing anything related to tradition because you guys are the same people going around calling well-meaning traditionalists all sorts of derogatory names and endangering their lives... A pastor can spend a whole 30 minutes during a church sermon crucifying them for just existing while you guys would be cheering for him.

You maintain self-image of opposing traditionalists while your actions expose conflicting values.

amoco:
"Jesus is an idol, making you guys also idol worshippers...🤣🤣🤣"

Jesus is not an idol. According to the Bible, Jesus is the express image of the invisible Godhead. Anyone who wants to know what God is like will simply look at Jesus and get a bit of God

.." Him being white doesn't make any difference...😃"

The historical Jesus of Nazareth wasn't white or European. He was Jewish from the Palestine in Asia.
The gospel moved from Jerusalem to every other parts of the world. In Bible times, places like Egypt, Ethiopia did get a touch of the gospel message before some European countries.

Lord Ragnar and all his Vikings were from Europe and raided Christian communities, worshipped idols until Christianity got to them. Christianity is not native to Europe same way it wasn't native to Africans.

"Many of our forefathers were killed and forced to worship him when the colonisers arrived in Africa."

You are right about the killing of our forefathers. That is true. But what is also true is that there were genuine missionaries who came to do good in Africa. The benefits are all there for us to see. There were also the bad eggs who came solely for trade and got the support from some of our people who traded their own.

"And how is it that not every traditional practice is religious and spiritually binding but every Christianity practice is religious and spiritually binding? make that make sense to me."

Our traditions are just part of our way of living, eating, education, cooking, religion, marriages, family systems etc. Not all our traditions have spiritual connotation. Our marriages, our education, our foods, our farming, our languages etc have no deep spiritual connotation. Just basic human acts.

Also not everything in the Bible is strictly spiritual.
The Old testament had moral codes, civil codes and ceremonial codes. The civil codes were given mostly to help keep order in the society and not strictly spiritual.

Covering ones faeces after defecation will stop epidemic and may not become sin against God.

Dont just look for someone to b a mother to your kids u will regret it. Ask God
To help u locate the one.
.

Ebubu6:
I missed out on my first choice and second choice. And I've given up all the love i have inside me. At this point, I think I'd just marry someone just to give my children a mother, then play my husband and father duties and rest. I think I've given my love to the wrong ones and have no more love to give.

According to him, breaking of the Kola nut during visitations is a sign of recognising the ancestors and he was wearing a red cap.

Christians change traditions just so they could be cherry picking and exposing their conflicting values... Why not use the bible to welcome your visitors instead?

amoco:
Kolanut is revered by most Igbos whether Christians or non Christians. That reverence makes them to use it for special occasions like entertainment of visitors, oblations to deities, for prayers, for peace deals, etc.

The Igbos have an adage that if a deity disturbs them too much, they will point it the tree it was carved from.

Humans formed these traditions. Humans modify the traditions. Humans change the traditions. One could choose to use theirs as a form of worship at shrines. Another chooses to use theirs to entertain visitors.

Apart from civil marriage which is a legal marriage, there's no other marriage that's not spiritual.

And if you call slaughtering a cow at a wedding for food and worshipping the God that you believe in in your own personal space without hurting others fetish, then it means Christians do practice fetishism as well because they'd be slaughtering cows for consumption at their weddings and worshipping that idol they call Jesus.

Hungrychicken:

Yes, I worship Jesus.
I’m refering to anything that involves effigies of another being or object that you worship, with blood and other things, as fetish.

To clarify you, not all traditions are fetish as you're making it sound.
Traditional marriages are one of those cultural practices that are peculiar to different tribes in Nigeria, and it doesn't have to involve bloods of animals or humans, and idol worshipping. Though, cultures are different.

But, more modern traditional marriages are just parties, getting to know families, exchanging gifts and being welcomed to the into the community by the people.

Why are you still talking? We're done here.

amoco:
I am sorry. I won't define simple terms for you. No. I won't. It's just funny that you are really struggling to understand a simple fact that a Christian belongs to a community that has her own traditions and so can do traditional marriage without interfering with their religion beliefs.

It's also interesting that you think a traditional marriage and Christianity are parallel lines. Very weird really.

All my attempts to help you failed cos you have closed off your mind on your wrong assumptions.

Cherry picking as usual to expose your conflicting values.

If Kola nut is just a fruit, then the bible is just a book too since you don't even consider it prestigious enough to be using it to welcome visitors.

Arostar2023:
I agree with you that kolanuts are used for oblations and sacrifices to the ancestors in my tribe. But that doesn’t make kolanuts inherently “spiritual “. It’s just a fruit …that traditionalists used them in their practices doesn’t mean Christians shouldn’t used them in whatever. This applies to a lot of other things too.

Samantha125:
According to him, breaking of the Kola nut during visitations is a sign of recognising the ancestors and he was wearing a red cap.

Christians change traditions just so they could be cherry picking and exposing their conflicting values... Why not use the bible to welcome your visitors instead?

That's not enough. You could have asked Christians to actually move out of their communities, erase all their history and their memories and die immediately after repentance. Will that be okay for you?

This is the problem. You don't even understand Christianity and think that after repentance a Christian changes physically, historically etc. That is a childish way of thinking.

When Jesus preached to the Jews, he met them within their culture and traditions and asked them for a change of heart that will lead them to abolish all that opposes God. That is how it works.

Christians are humans in a society and will perpetuate their cultures and traditions unless anyone is opposing God.

Samantha125:
Cherry picking as usual to expose your conflicting values.

If Kola nut is just a fruit, then the bible is just a book too since you don't even consider it prestigious enough to be using it to welcome visitors.

False equivalence. Discuss reasonably please.

You are committing category error. The bible and the kolanut are not used for same thing. You can as well tell Christians to erase their memories and pack out of their communities for you.

Samantha125:
Why are you still talking? We're done here.

All because I refused to redefine tradition and fetism for you.
Stop dabbling into something you have little knowledge about.

Samantha125:
According to him, breaking of the Kola nut during visitations is a sign of recognising the ancestors and he was wearing a red cap.

Christians change traditions just so they could be cherry picking and exposing their conflicting values... Why not use the bible to welcome your visitors instead?

"According to him...." Is he an authority for all Igbo people? Are you an expert on Igbo culture and traditions? Do you have a PHD on kolanut breaking?

Igbos serve their visitors kolanut, garden egg/alfafa, groundnut, yams, nzube (white powder inside a wooden container), rub powder on hands or on necks to welcome visitors or celebrate. It is a sign of peace and a display of acceptance. You can extend it to humans and to deities. That is the tradition.

Igbos wear certain dresses for celebrations . Those dresses are also used during Christian celebrations and for deities. It is because it is their culture and tradition.

You are manipulating your points and erroneously thinking the Igbo culture was predominantly idol worship. No. Our African traditions weren't ALL idol worship. If you have this wrong notion, it will make you think that any small shift or mix is countering idol worship. All nations on earth have mixed their traditions, dropped some and picked some, including yours. And that is how life evolves.

A Christian simply believes in Jesus Christ but still the same human in their locality. Repentance does more for ones spiritual life than eating of kolanut and dressing

Samantha125:
So you wrote all this book to defend your hypocrisy? Don't tell me about that same Bible that is being used to brainwash and manipulate you guys, Jesus is an idol and traditional marriage is as spiritual as Christian marriage is... If you're not a traditionalist, you shouldn't have any business practicing anything related to tradition because you guys are the same people going around calling well-meaning traditionalists all sorts of derogatory names and endangering their lives... A pastor can spend a whole 30 minutes during a church sermon crucifying them for just existing while you guys would be cheering for him.

You maintain self-image of opposing traditionalists while your actions expose conflicting values.

If you don't know what tradition is, it leads to this kind of fatal and infantile error you display here.

I am forced to think you have developed so much hatred for Christians and Christianity that you fail to apply simple logic in your discuss.

Samantha125:
According to him, breaking of the Kola nut during visitations is a sign of recognising the ancestors and he was wearing a red cap.

Christians change traditions just so they could be cherry picking and exposing their conflicting values... Why not use the bible to welcome your visitors instead?

Let's use your logic: they also offer different kinds of food, money, palm oil, drinks, clothing items etc, wooden work, kolanut etc to various deities. Does that mean all of these should not be used by anyone else?
Does that also imply that those deities made the items I listed and so should have exclusive right to their usage?

You can see that your logic fails woefully.

Go back and do a rework and come back with a better argument.

Christians are part of a community and will remain members of their communities even after repentance. No one is more bonafide in a community than a Christian. No one.

Samantha125:
Isn't worshipping another God also someone else's tradition?

No it's not. Do you mean everyone should have his god ? Because your father's god is also someone's god, you are not your father, are you? And your father also learned it from someone who might not even be related by blood. How did you know the tradional god is not scam by the village con artist?

I never said everyone should have their own God, but we all should have the freedom to worship whatever makes us happy and brings us peace as long as it does not involve hurting innocent lives... And we must learn to respect each other's faiths.

There are many con artists in Christianity as well, and who told you that it's only villagers who are traditionalists?

YourGFsnatcher:
No it's not. Do you mean everyone should have his god ? Because your father's god is also someone's god, you are not your father, are you? And your father also learned it from someone who might not even be related by blood. How did you know the tradional god is not scam by the village con artist?

I never said you mustn't use them for different purposes, what I'm against is you cherry picking some traditional practices to suite your narratives while you're busy demonizing traditionalists... Desist from everything that involves tradition and embrace your Christianity wholeheartedly.

You can use all those things, but for different purposes without conflicting your values.

amoco:
Let's use your logic: they also offer different kinds of food, money, palm oil, drinks, clothing items etc, wooden work, kolanut etc to various deities. Does that mean all of these should not be used by anyone else?
Does that also imply that those deities made the items I listed and so should have exclusive right to their usage?

You can see that your logic fails woefully.

Go back and do a rework and come back with a better argument.

Christians are part of a community and will remain members of their communities even after repentance. No one is more bonafide in a community than a Christian. No one.

Samantha125:
Cherry picking as usual to expose your conflicting values.

If Kola nut is just a fruit, then the bible is just a book too since you don't even consider it prestigious enough to be using it to welcome visitors.

You have got no argument sister Samantha. Over here in Nigeria some deluded youths are going back to the traditional ways. They said it’s the way of the fathers. But then, I don’t see any wisdom in continuing in the blindness and blunders of our ancestors, in the name of tradition. Some people started the traditional religion and practices, today is my turn to start and do what is profitable and enduring.

Kukutente23:
It's Christian wedding
White men get married without going to churches
Go and verify

That’s another man’s tradition.

Do your African traditional wedding and go you children of confused identity

I was born and raised in a traditionalist home whereby there were also many traditionalists in our community as well, so I know what tradition is... Form your own Christian traditions and leave African traditions for African traditionalists.

And I don't hate Christians or any other religious denomination, I have some Christian family members and friends that I love, but what I hate is the hypocrisy that you guys display and your level of denigration towards traditionalists when majority of them are not even evil.

amoco:
If you don't know what tradition is, it leads to this kind of fatal and infantile error you display here.

I am forced to think you have developed so much hatred for Christians and Christianity that you fail to apply simple logic in your discuss.

Samantha125:
I never said everyone should have their own God, but we all should have the freedom to worship whatever makes us happy and brings us peace as long as it does not involve hurting innocent lives... And we must learn to respect each other's faiths.

There are many con artists in Christianity as well, and who told you that it's only villagers who are traditionalists?

Then I think we are saying the same thing. Everyone should worship whatever "god" they feel like.

Only an Igbo traditionalist has the authority to speak on behalf of the Igbo culture as they're being led by the spirit of their ancestors, not a confused Christian with double standards.

You say you don't worship idols, but go ahead and make a contradictory statement by admitting to worship Jesus as if he's not a idol.

amoco:
"According to him...." Is he an authority for all Igbo people? Are you an expert on Igbo culture and traditions? Do you have a PHD on kolanut breaking?

Igbos serve their visitors kolanut, garden egg/alfafa, groundnut, yams, nzube (white powder inside a wooden container), rub powder on hands or on necks to welcome visitors or celebrate. It is a sign of peace and a display of acceptance. You can extend it to humans and to deities. That is the tradition.

Igbos wear certain dresses for celebrations . Those dresses are also used during Christian celebrations and for deities. It is because it is their culture and tradition.

You are manipulating your points and erroneously thinking the Igbo culture was predominantly idol worship. No. Our African traditions weren't ALL idol worship. If you have this wrong notion, it will make you think that any small shift or mix is countering idol worship. All nations on earth have mixed their traditions, dropped some and picked some, including yours. And that is how life evolves.

A Christian simply believes in Jesus Christ but still the same human in their locality. Repentance does more for ones spiritual life than eating of kolanut and dressing

What is fetishsm according to your understanding?

amoco:
All because I refused to redefine tradition and fetism for you.
Stop dabbling into something you have little knowledge about.

I am discussing reasonably, you're the confused one with double standards here... What's so hard in using the bible as Christians to welcome your visitors instead of the kola nut?

No one is asking you to erase anything or to pack out of your community, all I'm asking of you is to practice what you preach as Christians, leave African traditions for African traditionalists and live your lives in accordance to the Bible.

amoco:
False equivalence. Discuss reasonably please.

You are committing category error. The bible and the kolanut are not used for same thing. You can as well tell Christians to erase their memories and pack out of their communities for you.

If you don't see any wisdom in it, then do away with all African traditions and mind your own Christianity, let others be.

There are also many Christian con artists under the guise of being pastors, they'd be going around profiting from naive, desperate, and broken people.

Arostar2023:
You have got no argument sister Samantha. Over here in Nigeria some deluded youths are going back to the traditional ways. They said it’s the way of the fathers. But then, I don’t see any wisdom in continuing in the blindness and blunders of our ancestors, in the name of tradition. Some people started the traditional religion and practices, today is my turn to start and do what is profitable and enduring.

Meself:
Dont just look for someone to b a mother to your kids u will regret it. Ask God
To help u locate the one.
.

thank you

Samantha125:
I am discussing reasonably, you're the confused one with double standards here... What's so hard in using the bible as Christians to welcome your visitors instead of the kola nut?

No one is asking you to erase anything or to pack out of your community, all I'm asking of you is to practice what you preach as Christians, leave African traditions for African traditionalists and live your lives in accordance to the Bible.

Category errors.
Go and learn your basics.
Christian come from communities and are integral parts of their communities. You obviously are confused about community traditions.

Samantha125:
Only an Igbo traditionalist has the authority to speak on behalf of the Igbo culture as they're being led by the spirit of their ancestors, not a confused Christian with double standards.

You say you don't worship idols, but go ahead and make a contradictory statement by admitting to worship Jesus as if he's not a idol.

I am deeply rooted in all Igbo traditions more than many who even claim the "traditionalist' titles. I am more qualified than you to discuss Igbo traditions. I lived through it and still active in my community.

Perhaps you have weak and ignorant christians who fed you lies about what Christianity is.

A Christian is a HUMAN BEING IN A COMMUNITY who follows Jesus Christ but is still a human living amongst their communities. Why are you crying over this? Is it too hard to understand?

Samantha125:
I was born and raised in a traditionalist home whereby there were also many traditionalists in our community as well, so I know what tradition is... Form your own Christian traditions and leave African traditions for African traditionalists.

And I don't hate Christians or any other religious denomination, I have some Christian family members and friends that I love, but what I hate is the hypocrisy that you guys display and your level of denigration towards traditionalists when majority of them are not even evil.

You already convinced us here you don't understand what people's traditions are. You want to squeeze us into your myopic mold of tradition and Christianity. It doesn't work that way.

Your idols didn't create eggs, kolanuts, powders, goats, rams, trees, fruits, vegetables,dresses etc used to appese them. Why would arrogate exclusive ownership and patency of these items to them?

In Igboland we tell every deity the trees they were cut from when they disturb us. We know all of these things. Please stop struggling to be more Catholic than the Pope. It won't work. It's not working

Community traditions should be practiced by traditionalists since you guys would be denigrating them for staying true to their traditional ways... If people from different tribes with different beliefs can coexist within the same communities, then it means you guys can do the same... True Christians follow Christian traditions, else you're just a traditionalist disguising as a Christian.

amoco:
Category errors.
Go and learn your basics.
Christian come from communities and are integral parts of their communities. You obviously are confused about community traditions.