Henry120:


It is a discussions thread, and were we come to let out stress. No country on planet earth is self-sufficient in full scale wars, everybody has to import one item or the other.

hmm.

MikeZA:
You don't know SA military history.

Come back with FACTS. OK?

You do not know your own South African history about Korean war, I had to post the battle failures for you above. If you knew it, you would have avoided mentioning it like you avoided Bangui battle with Seleka.


Overall on this forum/topic, Nigerians finally win on facts and figures from page 1 of this thread to this present page.


It is a clear VICTORY for team Nigeria

.

lezz:
ok let me look up the United Nations archives.. .. . . . . . . . . . . .


i have looked and findeth nought.. The best i could come up with are multi national operations SA was not leading but were part of. SA's military is a sharp semblance of her foreign policy.... not well tuned or directed.

.

a full profile of MrAyeDee for saffers quoting him

lindaikeji..nl/2014/10/to-guy-that-wants-to-take-down-lib.html?m=1

.
[size=16pt]South Africans still desperately looking for current war history/records of SANDF to post here on nairaland o !

20 years till today remains an empty page for South African military experience and achievements.

United Nations Military forces in Congo war is an attempt of stolen glory.

Seleka rebels story is a no go area

#All SouthAfricans Learn Your Lesson, Don't Criticize ThoseWho DoWhatYou CannotDo
[/size]
.

Vanguard (Lagos)
7 October 2014

Nigeria: 400 Boko Haram Insurgents Killed in Battle to Retake Bazza, Michika, Madagali


By Kingsley Omonobi and Umar Yusuf

Heavy fighting between Nigerian troops and Boko Haram terrorists ensued yesterday in Adamawa State as soldiers backed from the air by Nigerian Airforce attack helicopters launched an attack to retake territories in the possession of Boko Haram.

In the ensuing battle that continued into the night, Vanguard gathered that about 400 Boko Haram terrorist had been killed while there were casualties on the part of the Nigerian soldiers.

Military sources in Adamawa state told Vanguard that the onslaught to retake the towns of Bazza, Michika and Madagali was launched from the town of Vimtim, the hometown of the Chief of Defence Staff, Air Chief Marshal Alex Badeh and that the General Officer Commanding 3 division of the Army, Major General Mohammed Zaruwa was coordinating the onslaught

Said the source, "I can assure you that we are advancing successfully. We have dealt a heavy blow on the terrorists. They didn't expect what they are seeing. Our armoured tanks are blasting and they are running for their lives. The airforce is providing air cover and hitting them also.

"I cannot give you a categorical answer regarding casualties but so far about 400 of the terrorists have been killed. We have casualties among our soldiers also but the propaganda circulating that 70 of our men were killed is wishful thinking".

"From reports on the ongoing battle, we may have lost a few soldiers but it cannot be confirmed because usually, they may have been injured and are holed up somewhere for first aid treatment" the source said.

Contacted on the development, Director of Defence Information, Major General Chris Olukolade confirmed the fighting but stated he cannot give casualty figures or full details as operatives on ground were yet to furnish him with the situation report. He said he would give details when the operation is concluded.



Online media reports had indicated that during the fight at least 70 soldiers were killed in a fierce battle between insurgents and Nigerian troops and pointed out that the fighting was for control of the towns of Bazza and Vimtim in Adamawa State, a claim denied by the military source.

The source further debunked claims that Boko Haram used helicopters to fight back noting that the Nigerian airforce helicopters may have been mistaken for that.

An eye witness told newsmen that the insurgents at a point on Sunday might re-grouped at the Federal Government College, (Technical) in Michika before they were dislodged and chased away.

According to him, "the army came in on Sallah day and since then fierce fighting has been on. But, as you can see the insurgents are moving away and the military are following them".

"The insurgents who were in their thousands came through Uba and attacked the Nigeria troops. "The gallant Nigerians soldiers were attacked from the rear by the militants but the military men engaged them in fierce battle over five hours ".

It will be recalled that on the 7th of September, 2014 the Boko Haram insurgents overran Michika, Bazza, Madagali and other border towns between Adamawa and Borno State during which the son of the former Nigeria President, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, a Lieutenant Colonel, Olugbenga Obasanjo an Engineer in the Nigeria Army was shot and wounded.

During the takeover of Madagali and Michika, the insurgents also attempted to overran Vimtim, the hometown of the Chief of Defence staff, Air Chief Marshall Alex Badeh.


http://allafrica.com/stories/201410070569.html

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/nigeria-400-boko-haram-militants-killed-after-fierce-fighting-troops-610683

agaugust:



Experience don't count for war you say, because South African military has almost ZERO experience today.

What if it was the other way round, and Nigerian military is the one with ZERO experience while South Africa has all experience, will you still come here and say experience does not count in war? Be honest with yourself.

America deployed 2.5 million soldiers to Vietnam war and the war ended about 15 years before Gulf war, this is in response to the bolded part of your comment above. http://www.statisticbrain.com/vietnam-war-statistics/

Please stop posting false information from your private mind here, do a simple google search before you type on your laptop, we don't want to eat your lies for dinner
.

So 5 years makes a 100% difference?

Lol ok.

agaugust:


The 300,000 Russian servicemen, were they soldiers that fought South Africa's 4,000 man army inside Angola?

I take it you don't know what that weblink story was saying due to poor comprehension on your part.

4,000 South African Soldiers will fight 300,000 Russian + 50,000 Cuban soldiers for 15 years and South African army will survive that?

Did your 250 SANDF men survive beyond 13 hours against 1,500 Seleka men?

When a weblink story is ridiculous, I ignore it. Somebody wrote a story on internet does not make it true, internet is a free zone for anyone who can post there like you SA guys pump lies into Nairaland forums.

.

You are the one with poor comprehension.

It says 500, 000 between 1975 and 1989

So that is an average of 35 000 per year

And you cannot compare the border war to the CAR.

With regards to the source, its from Pravda - making it pretty much indisputable.

So, you asked for proof we fought the Russians. It has been posted.

Henry120:


It is a discussions thread, and were we come to let out stress. No country on planet earth is self-sufficient in full scale wars, everybody has to import one item or the other.

Even the British "begged" Americans for supplies if the war in the Falklands prolonged.

agaugust:


"According to the UN Korean War Allied Association, a total of 826 South Africans served in the Korean War. 243 were Air Force officers and 545 were Ground Personnel. 38 army officers and men served as part of the first Commonwealth Division. 37 South Africans gave their lives. 11 South Africans are interred at the UNMCK in Busan. Eight prisoners of war were returned. Aircraft losses amounted to 74 out of 97 Mustangs and 4 out of 22 Sabres."

http://www.southafrica-embassy.or/eng/sankorea/korean_war.php

proved, South African air force lost about 70% of the American donated fighter aircraft s.hot down by North Korean army, SAAF perfomance in Korean war is part of your traditional history of military failures, the list is very long.
.

Ok, you wanna talk stats, lets talk stats.

We lost 76% of the Mustangs we deployed... that is to be expected considering we were flying propellor driven arifcraft against enemy jet-aircraft

Once we were equipped with modern Jet aircraft (hello you sex.y sabre) our losses dropped down to 18% - because we had the right equipment for the job.

You say it was a failure?

The President of the United states says otherwise - or else we would not have gotten a presidential unit citation
The President of Korea says otherwise - or else we would not have gotten a presidential unit citation from him as well.


We also had the most dangerous job - and we were the best at it

The SAAF pilots made a significant contribution towards the development of the Fifth Air Force's 'Truckbusting' techniques and on 4 April 1951 the Commander of the Fifth Air Force, Lt Gen E.E. Partridge, singled out 2 Sqn SAAF during the UNC morning briefing as the most efficient unit at seeking out and destroying camouflaged enemy vehicles
http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol063dm.html

We accounted for 23% of the UN's total kills on enemy ground forces (same citation)

Not to mention we were more professional than the americans

Once again the SAAF proved its worth. Serviceability in 2 Squadron was better than that of the other three USAF squadrons in the wing
http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/history/saaf/korea

Conclusion: We kicked allot of a.s.s in korea

Take your simpleton arguments elsewhere

agaugust:


Final air combat was done by South Africa, Ukraine and India, the latter two are not FIB members. Tanzania led the final ground assault with planning input from Brazil as overall commander.

The other countries in the UN mission provided garrison and back up to the 3 frontliners, if there was no garrison, M23 rebels will pop up behind the frontline FIB and show you the hot pepper Cuba showed South Africa in Angola.

In war, armies have van-guard, flank-guard, rear-guard, and garrison to hold positions fixed.

The Congo war involved all these countries in various roles mentioned above, 20,000 soldiers and combat helicopters from.....

Algeria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada, China, Czech Republic, Egypt, France, Ghana, Guatemala, Guinea, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Mongolia, Morocco, Nepal, Niger, Nigeria, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Serbia, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Tunisia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United Republic of Tanzania, United States, Uruguay, Yemen and Zambia.

All under United Nations command led by Brazil. Let this be the last time this matter will be treated here.

Stop claiming Congo DRC war as a South African achievement for the sake of morality and common sense !!!!



.

Dude, are you being serious?

First, dont lecture me about tactics and strategry... if it wasnt for me you would have no idea what schwerpunkt and deep penetration operations were.

Second, you are not differentiating between defensive operations taken up against M23 (which largely failed) and offensive operations against the M23 (which only the FIB was madated to take part in)

Third, those 20 000 men are spread out across a country the size of western europe. And none have the mandate for offensive operations against the M23 or other groups. And most werent even in East Kivu at all!!

Finally, you gunna have to back your BS up with citations. Show us that Tanzania saw more combat than us

We contributed the most troops and equipment.

We get the lions share of the glory

Henry120:


You'll give me an A+ in deception, when i have constantly said things the way they are. Are you allergic to the truth?

How about Patches689 and MikeZA who are serial, un-apologetic liars, what score would you give them?


Make no mistake, the nigerian army in the past weeks has totally decimated the enemy.

In konduga the Army killed over 1150 boko-haram insurgents in 4 days of figthing.

The army launched a multi-thronged attack on the enemy both day and night in Michika and bazza killing over 400 of them.

The army also killed a known terrorist impostor in konduga (bashir mohammed).

This is the narrative.

This is the ramblings of a madman

agaugust:



I have told you I will NOT waste my time repeating same old posts that are already available on this forum from past arguments. Also, I won't be an agent of google search for any stupiid South African. Then I won't waste my time with liars, see what happened above on this page, I spent 2 hours of my precious time replying your posts with sources last night, I proved everything and you still replied...."Show us proof again".

Look dude, I don't get paid salary on Nairaland, I have already learnt to ignore many South African comments because you guys lose an argument when we show prove, and then you still ask for proof, and keep asking again for the same proof to be repeated for you, why don't you also spend your own time to google facts and counter our comments ? Am I your employee under your command?

See, I don't care how many lies you South Africans tell here, the Nigerians/Kenyans reading this blog knows who is posting facts even if you dispute it.

Go search for sources and disprove any claims here, especially neutral sources, not South African propaganda sources.

As for your witchcraft threat, the God of Adeboye and Obadare will roast both you and your witches alive with fire and brimstone in Jesus name amen !
.

Sulking because he cannot find a citation to show that the cubans "popped up behind us and showered us with hot pepper"

You cant talk your way out it augugubgugug... I guess you will have to employ plan B: SULK

agaugust:



You do not know your own South African history about Korean war, I had to post the battle failures for you above. If you knew it, you would have avoided mentioning it like you avoided Bangui battle with Seleka.


Overall on this forum/topic, Nigerians finally win on facts and figures from page 1 of this thread to this present page.


It is a clear VICTORY for team Nigeria

.

OH MY GAWD THE IRONY

This post coming from the guy who has an allmost infinite claim of things he cannot prove!!!

- Tucano's
- T-72's
- T-84 oplots
- Otomat Mk2's
- JF-17's
- FREAKING FH-77B L52 (one of my favorites)
- Su-30's
- That blatant VIP transport which he calls an ISTAR asset

Good lord.

And lets not even mention all the things he says as fact... and yet cant prove.

agaugust:
.
[size=16pt]
#All SouthAfricans Learn Your Lesson, Don't Criticize ThoseWho DoWhatYou CannotDo
[/size]
.

You are right

- Mutiny
- lose town after town
- commit war-crimes
- desert
- refuse to return to the front
- sell weapons to the enemy
- shoot at commanders
- blow up ships
- top the world piracy rankings
- top the world terror rankings
- lose jets

You are absolutely right, we couldent do any of that if we tried

Reminder: In the last 18 months South Africa has vanquished no less than 2 rebel groups
Nigeria has yet to defeat one in the last 20 years.

agaugust:



You do not know your own South African history about Korean war, I had to post the battle failures for you above. If you knew it, you would have avoided mentioning it like you avoided Bangui battle with Seleka.


Overall on this forum/topic, Nigerians finally win on facts and figures from page 1 of this thread to this present page.


It is a clear VICTORY for team Nigeria

.

Lol.

A well read individual=/=A bloke who hunts articles on google.


Presenting a link to us doesn't show how well knowledgeable you are,about whatever topic we might be discussing.

You're NOT putting any argument forward,but simply presenting articles which are biased in nature.

Answer questions and back then up:

Here's one: On which front did Tz troops lead Saffers?

agaugust:

Go search for sources and disprove any claims here, especially neutral sources, not South African propaganda sources.

As for your witchcraft threat, the God of Adeboye and Obadare will roast both you and your witches alive with fire and brimstone in Jesus name amen !
.

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary", is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

No one is going to bother writing an artical on how the Cubans never "popped up behind us and showered us with hot pepper"

Pathetic.

You made a claim.

We called you out on it.

Now show it. Or admit you have no proof.

MikeZA:
Lol.

A well read individual=/=A bloke who hunts articles on google.


Presenting a link to us doesn't show how well knowledgeable you are,about whatever topic we might be discussing.

You're NOT putting any argument forward,but simply presenting articles which are biased in nature.

Answer questions and back then up:

Here's one: On which front did Tz troops lead Saffers?

Every front Every where !

You South Africans are glory thieves. United Nations takes 100% glory for the whole mission of MONUSCO and FIB.

Tanzanian army takes 50% glory for FIB war in Congo.

Malawian army takes 30% glory

South African army takes 20% glory.

A leader is the brain behind the success of the team he led with his own brain.

http://monusco.unmissions.org/Default.aspx?ctl=Details&tabid=10662&mid=14594&ItemID=20029



.

agaugust:



Every front Every where !

You South Africans are glory thieves. United Nations takes 100% glory for the whole mission of MONUSCO and FIB.

Tanzanian army takes 50% glory for FIB war in Congo.

Malawian army takes 30% glory

South African army takes 20% glory.

A leader is the brain behind the success of the team he led with his own brain.

http://monusco.unmissions.org/Default.aspx?ctl=Details&tabid=10662&mid=14594&ItemID=20029



.

Your citation says absolutely nothing to substantiate your claims.

Please answer his question.

And please provide proof that the Tanzanians did the majority of the fighting.

agaugust:



Every front Every where !

You South Africans are glory thieves. United Nations takes 100% glory for the whole mission of MONUSCO and FIB.

Tanzanian army takes 50% glory for FIB war in Congo.

Malawian army takes 30% glory

South African army takes 20% glory.

A leader is the brain behind the success of the team he led with his own brain.

http://monusco.unmissions.org/Default.aspx?ctl=Details&tabid=10662&mid=14594&ItemID=20029



.

MONUSCO is not the FIB, MONUSCO is peace keeping then the FIB did the combat of DRC... South Africa killed the M23 bosses and killed and scarted the boys with her powerful Rooivalks.


The glory belongs to South Africa and her home made weapons.

GreenandGold:




MONUSCO is not the FIB, MONUSCO is peace keeping then the FIB did the combat of DRC... South Africa killed the M23 bosses and killed and scarted the boys with her powerful Rooivalks.


The glory belongs to South Africa and her home made weapons.

I realized today that augugbugugug does not understand MONUSCO or the FIB, their mandates, their ROE or their operations.

As usual he is flapping his gums over matters he knows little about

agaugust:



Every front Every where !

You South Africans are glory thieves. United Nations takes 100% glory for the whole mission of MONUSCO and FIB.

Tanzanian army takes 50% glory for FIB war in Congo.

Malawian army takes 30% glory

South African army takes 20% glory.

A leader is the brain behind the success of the team he led with his own brain.

http://monusco.unmissions.org/Default.aspx?ctl=Details&tabid=10662&mid=14594&ItemID=20029



.

During which battle?

The commander is not part of the Tanzanian battalion.

Malawi didn't even fight during the heaviest battles around Kibati.

Patchesagain:


You are right

- Mutiny
- lose town after town
- commit war-crimes
- desert
- refuse to return to the front
- sell weapons to the enemy
- shoot at commanders
- blow up ships
- top the world piracy rankings
- top the world terror rankings
- lose jets

You are absolutely right, we couldent do any of that if we tried

Reminder: In the last 18 months South Africa has vanquished no less than 2 rebel groups
Nigeria has yet to defeat one in the last 20 years.

rebels? We are talking terrorism here with boko haram not rebels. And thats a victory no african country will claim. But i think Nigeria is on the verge of doing so.

Patchesagain:


You are right

- Mutiny
- lose town after town
- commit war-crimes
- desert
- refuse to return to the front
- sell weapons to the enemy
- shoot at commanders
- blow up ships
- top the world piracy rankings
- top the world terror rankings
- lose jets

You are absolutely right, we couldent do any of that if we tried

Reminder: In the last 18 months South Africa has vanquished no less than 2 rebel groups
Nigeria has yet to defeat one in the last 20 years.

In south-africa's case, the terrorists now run the country, so tell us who won?

Henry120:


In south-africa's case, the terrorists now run the country, so tell us who won?

Democracy and freedom won

Patchesagain:


Ok, you wanna talk stats, lets talk stats.

We lost 76% of the Mustangs we deployed... that is to be expected considering we were flying propellor driven arifcraft against enemy jet-aircraft

Once we were equipped with modern Jet aircraft (hello you sex.y sabre) our losses dropped down to 18% - because we had the right equipment for the job.

You say it was a failure?

http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/history/saaf/korea

Conclusion: We kicked allot of a.s.s in korea

Take your simpleton arguments elsewhere

Are you drinking Ogogoro or Paraga ?

Who told you South Africa was flying propeller Mustang against enemy jet aircraft? Where did you see that in your Korean war history?

Your SAAF that ran away with Mirage jets from Cuban MiG 23 jets in Angola ?

If South Africa every flies propeller combat aircraft against North Korean jets, 100% of your air force will be s.hot down in 5 minutes.

The war history says SAAF was flying ONLY ground attack on North Korean army especially interdicting enemy ground transport columns.

" 2 Squadron had a long and distinguished record of service in Korea flying F-51D Mustangs and later F-86F Sabres. Their role was mainly flying ground attack and interdiction missions."

76% of South African combat aircraft, Mustangs were s.hot down by North Korean ARMY, history says ARMY !

"On 11 March 1953 the squadron flew it first operational sortie with the F-86F Sabre. The Squadron now flew, in addition to its ground attack role, high-level interdiction and standing patrols along the Yalu River. The cease-fire was signed on 27 July 1953."

Next you got American gift of Sabre jet fighters in March, and war ended in July, that explains why SAAF lost only 4 Sabres out of 22, if the war continued you will lose EVERYTHING to North Korean army soldiers

You see why I don't bother much nowadays to post weblink sources? I have my facts, and I don't care whatever lies you tell.

http://www.southafrica-embassy.or/eng/sankorea/korean_war.php


Now don't ever come here again to post South African Korean war history again okay? I w.arn y.ou for the last time Mister Mokopa, or else I will once again white-wash your incompetent air force that wasted 76% of your combat aircraft like dumbo domingos

.

agaugust:



Are you drinking Ogogoro or Paraga ?

Who told you South Africa was flying propeller Mustang against enemy jet aircraft? Where did you see that in your Korean war history?

Your SAAF that ran away with Mirage jets from Cuban MiG 23 jets in Angola ?

If South Africa every flies propeller combat aircraft against North Korean jets, 100% of your air force will be s.hot down in 5 minutes.

The war history says SAAF was flying ONLY ground attack on North Korean army especially interdicting enemy ground transport columns.

" 2 Squadron had a long and distinguished record of service in Korea flying F-51D Mustangs and later F-86F Sabres. Their role was mainly flying ground attack and interdiction missions."

76% of South African combat aircraft, Mustangs were s.hot down by North Korean ARMY, history says ARMY !

"On 11 March 1953 the squadron flew it first operational sortie with the F-86F Sabre. The Squadron now flew, in addition to its ground attack role, high-level interdiction and standing patrols along the Yalu River. The cease-fire was signed on 27 July 1953."

Next you got American gift of Sabre jet fighters in March, and war ended in July, that explains why SAAF lost only 4 Sabres out of 22, if the war continued you will lose EVERYTHING to North Korean army soldiers

You see why I don't bother much nowadays to post weblink sources? I have my facts, and I don't care whatever lies you tell.

http://www.southafrica-embassy.or/eng/sankorea/korean_war.php


Now don't ever come here again to post South African Korean war history again okay? I w.arn y.ou for the last time Mister Mokopa, or else I will once again white-wash your incompetent air force that wasted 76% of your combat aircraft like dumbo domingos

.

Yet again you lie to us

Nowhere does it say that all they planes were shot down by the NK army- you just made that up

First, we lost around 78 planes in over 12 000 sorties. We lost one plane for every 153 missions we flew!!! That is an astounding figure!!!
- not to mention that the UN lost over 1000 planes in the conflict. So we contributes over 20% of the ground kills for 0.7% of the "cost"

Second, Russian piloted Mig15s appeared in Korea from October 15th 1950 onwards.

Third, we accounted for 20% of UN ground kills- what percentage of aircraft did we send?

Fourth, out contribution is recognized by presidential citations

Fifth, we didn't ONLY fly ground attack - it says mainly, do you know the difference between mainly and only?

No one cares about your opinion. Our contribution and our skills are well known and well proven. Not to mention we showed ourselves to be more professional than the mighty USAF

Their own commanders said we were the best in their entire air-contingent at ground attack. That's right, the American Airforce, the best in the world, happily used us as an example of how to conduct such operations!!!!

Maybe you should show us just one instance of nigeria flying against an enemy with an Airforce or modern equipment - better yet, show us any one example of Nigerian pilots getting into air-to-air combat!!! Just one!!

Lol, you have your jets showt down by boko haram!!!


As for your empty threats: BRING IT ON

Agububu

I'm still waiting for you to show us the link which states that "Cubans showed South Africans hot pepper"....

agaugust:




Your SAAF that ran away with Mirage jets from Cuban MiG 23 jets in Angola ?


.

During which engagement?

It was the MIG-23s who used their superior engine power to disengage and run.

Name the 1.operation 2. Time. 3. Place.

Check out the helmet and forehead.

agaugust:



You do not know your own South African history about Korean war, I had to post the battle failures for you above. If you knew it, you would have avoided mentioning it like you avoided Bangui battle with Seleka.


Overall on this forum/topic, Nigerians finally win on facts and figures from page 1 of this thread to this present page.


It is a clear VICTORY for team Nigeria

.

Nope, you only have won with stupidity. Fact!!!!

Henry120:


In south-africa's case, the terrorists now run the country, so tell us who won?

Do you mean terrorists who were supported by majority of the citizens and proved that with their votes?