₦airaland Forum

Not sure image123 read this bit posted by ooks, so i am posting it again.....

vooks:
2 Chr 31:6... Who asked for your fantasies in interpretation? how does 'the tithe of holy things' or 'a tenth of anything they had dedicated to the LORD' mean non-Agricultural?
Quit circular reasoning. If the tithe belongs to God, it automatically becomes holy thing,dedicated to God.
If I dedicate to God silver, I can't give Him 10% of it because ALL of it belongs to Him. So there is nothing like dedicating things and then giving to God a fraction of these. You give EVERYTHING you dedicate. The point is a tithe becomes holy things or dedicated things but holy things or dedicated things are not necessarily tithes

...image123, please give special attention to the bolded.

Image123:
BTW, tithes talked about in that passage is of course on increase for that year. It wasn't a tithe of every property in Israel. Tithe is 10% of INCOME or INCREASE.bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase.

"bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase"....image123

The nature of the increase was clearly stated in Deut. 14:22....

.."Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year."

emphasis on the bit in blue...and we find that the "increase" in Deut 14:28 refers to food if we read verse 29......

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: 29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied;....."

....emphasis on the bit in blue font colour

BTW, there is nothing like "tithe is 10% of income" in the bible. You are strictly on ya own.

Zikkyy:
It is not about what the jews did but about what they were instructed to do. Did God command the Jews to fast twice a week? the answer is NO! Did God command the Jews to tithe of all they possess? the answer is No! The pharisee went beyond the command of the Lord to tithe agric produce by tithing all his possession just to show he is better (holier) than others. read him in 18:11.....

11[b]The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. [/b]12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

Working hard to impress the Lord ehn? am happy to read that Jesus was not impressed..... and to think that the pharisee is ya role model?

right. The Pharisees offered that which God never commanded and looked down on others who would not... Much like the actions of tithe teachers of today.

God seldom rejects unsolicited offerings. Think Hannah offering Samuel, or Jacob offering to tithe (which is weird if tithing was a practice back then), or Annanias and Saphira. If you for a second dropped your self-righteous Pharaisical garb and gave him 100% of your wealth and not just a fickle accounting 10% of your net salary, He would accept it.

His acceptance don't make that a rule,requirement or a command or even a principle. This is why you defend tithing with all your strength yet you would NEVER sell your own house or land and lay the money at your MoG's feet unless 'God directs' you like Barnabas. Why would you stop at 10%? Why not give 90% and reap 9 times your blessings?

Image123:
Thankfully, God has not made you his customs duty officer. Christians don't need you as mediator or interface between them and God. You are in no position to dictate what Christians must give God. God is not complaining, neither is He mocked. It is self appointed customs worker without pay who have issues, telling others "No, no no, don't bring this one to God, bring that one instead". BRING YE ALL THE TITHES.

chysam:
Even bible references will not help your understanding so far.You muddle up issues and argue more like an attorney on judicial contract;quick to anger even without provocation and capable of exhibiting temparamental stuffs. Just look at your defence of monetary tithing above. What exactly were you trying to prove?.The passage being very clear even to a goat.Read the concluding part of that instruction again,and see what happened when the tithers arrived with their money.

Can you differenciate between a Pharisee and a follower of christ?. Whatever differences you find between them is also applicable to the issue of tithe.They were strictly in opposition with each other and the christians were being persecuted and killed by them.Now ask yoursself why a judaism faithful would go after his colleague who equally obey their laws and also paid tithes as they did. By Gods grace,someday your eyes and others will open to the truth.

The point where i wish you good luck. God has graciously shown me the truth already and i accepted Him. Every other truth is irrelevant, thanks.

Zikkyy:
Not sure image123 read this bit posted by ooks, so i am posting it again.....



...image123, please give special attention to the bolded.

God is the Owner of heaven and earth, yet we offer offerings to Him from Adam till date. Find something else to sell instead of holes.

Zikkyy:
"bring forth all the tithe of thine increase. Emphasis on increase"....image123

The nature of the increase was clearly stated in Deut. 14:22....

.."Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year."

emphasis on the bit in blue...and we find that the "increase" in Deut 14:28 refers to food if we read verse 29......

28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: 29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied;....."

....emphasis on the bit in blue font colour

BTW, there is nothing like "tithe is 10% of income" in the bible. You are strictly on ya own.

We've been through this before. Income is your gain or increase or harvest from work. It's as common sense as it gets.

Funny, people were paid money for their work in the New Testament, yet were not required to tithe it. Nor was tithing of money ever a suggestion in either the Old or New Testament.

People bought and sold with their money. Yet were never told "you must tithe your money". Nor was it suggested they could tithe their money.

But it was stated emphatically that they could not.

MarkMiwerds:
Funny, people were paid money for their work in the New Testament, yet were not required to tithe it. Nor was tithing of money ever a suggestion in either the Old or New Testament.

People bought and sold with their money. Yet were never told "you must tithe your money". Nor was it suggested they could tithe their money.

But it was stated emphatically that they could not.

Who and where stated emphatically that people could not tithe money? On the rest of your post, we've been through the agrarian economy explanation severally. People do business with gold and barrels of oil. It's more common and convenient today to do exchanges with cash. It was more common and traditional to live with agricultural produce than silver. Consider the times.

We've been throught all of it, Image. Your theories have been totally debunked.

Who emphatically said money could not be tithed? God did... When He said:

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Deuteronomy 12:8 (KJV) 8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

You can deny it all you want, but when you do, you are lying against the Word of God.

He said His holy tithe was to be agricultural, not money.

In the last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, they are still agricultural tithes and still to be given to the Levites.

I don't expect you to accept the facts written in the Word, but maybe someone else will and realize their pastors have been the robbers all along, not them.

MarkMiwerds:
We've been throught all of it, Image. Your theories have been totally debunked.

Who emphatically said money could not be tithed? God did... When He said:

Leviticus 27:30 (KJV) 30 And all the tithe of the land, [whether] of the seed of the land, [or] of the fruit of the tree, [is] the LORD'S: [it is] holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:31 (KJV) 31 And if a man will at all redeem [ought] of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth [part] thereof.

Leviticus 27:32 (KJV) 32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, [even] of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:33 (KJV) 33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Deuteronomy 12:8 (KJV) 8 Ye shall not do after all [the things] that we do here this day, every man whatsoever [is] right in his own eyes.

You can deny it all you want, but when you do, you are lying against the Word of God.

He said His holy tithe was to be agricultural, not money.

In the last place tithes are commanded in the Bible, they are still agricultural tithes and still to be given to the Levites.

I don't expect you to accept the facts written in the Word, but maybe someone else will and realize their pastors have been the robbers all along, not them.

Delude yourself all you want but those verses and NO verses says/stated emphatically that they could
not tithe non agricultural stuff. Leviticus is clear that WHATEVER is devoted to God is holy unto Him, don't cut that out deceiving others to think ONLY agricultural products are holy. Stop twisting Deut 12 to support your lack of understanding. It says ALL THE THINGS WE DO HERE THIS DAY. Were they tithing before getting to Canaan or no? You can't eat your cake and have it back.

Leviticus 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

EVERY DEVOTED THING was "commanded" as holy unto the LORD. Deceiving people ignorantly that it's ONLY agricultural products is dishonesty.

A 'truth' that can't stand scriptures. Very sad. Joseph Smith was 'graciously shown truths' and he couldn't care what nobody not even scriptures said. Ditto Ellen G White

Image123:
The point where i wish you good luck. God has graciously shown me the truth already and i accepted Him. Every other truth is irrelevant, thanks.

Quit obfuscating. Since He is the owner, why doth he reject the maimed sacrifices? Or why do we need to consecrate some and call them holy things?

Image123:
God is the Owner of heaven and earth, yet we offer offerings to Him from Adam till date. Find something else to sell instead of holes.

Add to this, tithes could be redeemed at 120% of their estimated value. So much for agrarian argument

MarkMiwerds:
Funny, people were paid money for their work in the New Testament, yet were not required to tithe it. Nor was tithing of money ever a suggestion in either the Old or New Testament.

People bought and sold with their money. Yet were never told "you must tithe your money". Nor was it suggested they could tithe their money.

But it was stated emphatically that they could not.

How comes tithes could be redeemed in MONEY at 120% of their cost?
There was money in circulation long before Moses

Image123:
Who and where stated emphatically that people could not tithe money? On the rest of your post, we've been through the agrarian economy explanation severally. People do business with gold and barrels of oil. It's more common and convenient today to do exchanges with cash. It was more common and traditional to live with agricultural produce than silver. Consider the times.

Ignoramus. They could dedicate/devote just about everything. And anything devoted became DEVOTED THING. But not all DEVOTED THINGS were tithed. A tithe by the virtue of the command was already a DEVOTED THING

repeat after me slowly....' ALL Tithes were DEVOTED THINGS but not ALL DEVOTED THINGS were tithes'. It's like saying ALL Brits speak English but not ALL English speakers are Brits. Comprende?

Image123:
Leviticus 27:28 Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

EVERY DEVOTED THING was "commanded" as holy unto the LORD. Deceiving people ignorantly that it's ONLY agricultural products is dishonesty.

Goshen360:
Amplified Bible (AMP)
¹¹ And I will rebuke the devourer [insects and plagues] for your sakes and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground, neither shall your vine drop its fruit before the time in the field, says the Lord of hosts.

1. From this translation, devourer is not the devil and demons that pastors use to threaten and coarse people into paying tithe, it is insects and plagues. In other words, insects that plagues "fruits of the ground". Ah, examples of insects, butterflies,beetles, flies, mosquitoes, crickets, cockroaches etc.

Question: Since tithe teachers and payers had been teaching\paying tithe, had mosquitoes never bitten them? Don't they have flies in\around their houses? How about cockroaches?

the expose has expose ur inability to being expose to the teachings of God, go n get expose to Godly things!

Image123:
Delude yourself all you want but those verses and NO verses says/stated emphatically that they could
not tithe non agricultural stuff. Leviticus is clear that WHATEVER is devoted to God is holy unto Him, don't cut that out deceiving others to think ONLY agricultural products are holy. Stop twisting Deut 12 to support your lack of understanding. It says ALL THE THINGS WE DO HERE THIS DAY. Were they tithing before getting to Canaan or no? You can't eat your cake and have it back.

You are the one being out rightly dishonest. We have shown. You from many scriptures were God defined the tithes required by him and these required tithes were strictly agricultural products. Are you saying God forgot to add the non agricultural products when he was giving his clear commandments or is it that you know more than God Why add to scriptures that tithes could include non agric products when God did not say so? I honestly urge you to quit this line of argument as it is not only extremely DAFT, it potrays you as a desperate charlatan who would go to any length justify the tithe racket that is prevalent in most churches today.

Bidam:
Such a show of shame,who asked you for her,his or them? You go skool at all? Even a kindergarten kid knows what a teacher requires of him when a straight forward question is asked.

I said apart from the genesis account provide a scripture where an insect is termed HE you failed woefully to do so.

Thank God your lies were exposed.KEEP UP WITH YOUR FOLLY.

Mal 3:11
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and [size=15]he[/size] shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast [size=15]her[/size] fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts. KJV

It seems like the pronouns used were because of the gender which the nouns refers to carried. If you look at ^^ you will understand that while "Devourer" carries "he", "she" was used for "Vine". Do you then think that Vine there refers to animate thing?

Inanimate and animals are sometimes referred to as "he" or "she" because of the gender of the word they qualify.

Leviticus 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

In the above verses, we see several insects with the pronoun "his" attached to them. Yet in Proverbs 6:6, we see the ant being used in conjunction with the female pronoun... "Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways; and be wise.

Image123:
Who and where stated emphatically that people could not tithe money? On the rest of your post, we've been through the agrarian economy explanation severally. People do business with gold and barrels of oil. It's more common and convenient today to do exchanges with cash. It was more common and traditional to live with agricultural produce than silver. Consider the times.

No sir,it is wrong for humans to deviate from Gods command because they feel God "MAY" equally like their own alternative.That is exactly they point you guys are not getting.We are neither proposing green revolution to feed a 21st century pastor nor suggesting that you set up a husbandry for him.We are simply saying that you must refrain all activities that had and has nothing to do with a true and real christian.For Gods sake you guys are learned,what stops you from understanding that modern day christian tithing is one of the many dogmatic practices evolved by catholics about 4 centuries ago.If Tithing is a way of feeding a pastor who calls himself a christian,the payer and the receiver must firstly look into the bible and understand how the apostles raised money to feed.If it has nothing to do with tithing,then let him get his money and food just the way the early pastors did.Is there anyone here who want to oppose the suggestion that a true pastor should raise his money the way the apostles did rather than the way the "NON-CHRISTIAN" Levites priests did?. If you object,then please tell us why a christian should run away from the congregation of christ into the gathering of Pharisees to get his food.Does the bible have any record of the apostles going into the temple to receive their own share of the temple tithes as workers of christ?. Perhaps somebody will still say yes.THE TRUTH is that pastors today preach about faith but dont have it at all.They are very much afraid of their future financially and do not even trust the God they falsely claim to represent.This is the only and major reason why they uphold a practice which Jesus never cherised a bit.Idiotic minds claim jesus" statement to the Pharisee was in support of tithing.Yet they are so moronic in not understanding that while jesus berated the pharisee,his followers was somewhere learning a whole new doctrine of christ.Has any of these bumpheads mediated deeply and ask himself why christ never turned to his followers an said" You too,my followers,please also tithe and spread the gospel like the pharisees". Of course any tithes from them would have been for jesus and the senior followers,do we find any of these in the bible?FAITH WITHOUT WORK HAS NO RESULT,PASTORS GO AND WORK!!!. STOP TEACHING GOD HOW MODERN CHRISTIANS SHOULD HANDLE THEIR INCOME.

MarkMiwerds:
Leviticus 11:22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

In the above verses, we see several insects with the pronoun "his" attached to them. Yet in Proverbs 6:6, we see the ant being used in conjunction with the female pronoun... "Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways; and be wise.

You have knowingly or unknowingly turned a blind eye on my reply to you. Perhaps, you understand the point and are keeping mute instead of publicly accepting or seeking further clarification. Don't do the usual of departure for a season only to come repeat the same trip statement.

Image123:
You have knowingly or unknowingly turned a blind eye on my reply to you. Perhaps, you understand the point and are keeping mute instead of publicly accepting or seeking further clarification. Don't do the usual of departure for a season only to come repeat the same trip statement.

He has dealt with an issue you raised.
If you think he has not addressed it well point it out
instead of your usual accusations which are in reality
your faults labelled on others.

trustman:
He has dealt with an issue you raised.
If you think he has not addressed it well point it out
instead of your usual accusations which are in reality
your faults labelled on others.

Don't be ridiculous. Mark didn't reply my last post to him. Why not stay out of our discussion instead of unfounded and biased poke nosing.

Yes, the issue was answered by me. Image just refuses to accept the Biblical proofs and undeniable facts.



Proof: Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.

Fact: God did not say 'And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, or of thy silver, thy gold, or thy wages is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.' He said the tithe consisted of crops and livestock... nothing else.


Proof: Numbers 18:21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

Numbers 18:24 But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the LORD, I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Numbers 18:26 Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the LORD, even a tenth part of the tithe.

Numbers 18:28 Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the LORD of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the LORD'S heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Deuteronomy 14:28 At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
Deuteronomy 14:29 And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Nehemiah 10:37 And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage.
Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Fact: God did not say the tithe was to go to Levites, widows, orphans, strangers in Israel & pastors on Gentile soil. His tithe was to go to people in Israel.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.

Deuteronomy 12:10 But when ye go over Jordan, and dwell in the land which the LORD your God giveth you to inherit, and when he giveth you rest from all your enemies round about, so that ye dwell in safety;
Deuteronomy 12:11 Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD:

Fact: God said tithe was to be observed once the children of Israel crossed the Jordan and found rest from their enemies. They were not required to tithe until they entered Canaan.

Proof: Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Fact: God said things were to be done His way, not man's. His tithe was to be agricultural, to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in the land that God had promised to Jacob... Canaan. They could not have tithed money. They were not to do what seemed right in their own eyes. They were to do as God commanded.

Proof: Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Fact: The last commandment in the Bible concerning tithes, they are still the property of the sons of Levi. They are still according to the Law; i.e., agricultural.

Fact: There is not one iota of Scripture that ever commands anyone to tithe money to Tabernacle, Temple, or Church.

Fact: In the Bible, tithes were never carried to the New Testament Church, tithes were never collected in the New Testament Church, and tithes were never controlled by the New Testament Church.

Image123:
Delude yourself all you want but those verses and NO verses says/stated emphatically that they could
not tithe non agricultural stuff. Leviticus is clear that WHATEVER is devoted to God is holy unto Him, don't cut that out deceiving others to think ONLY agricultural products are holy. Stop twisting Deut 12 to support your lack of understanding. It says ALL THE THINGS WE DO HERE THIS DAY. Were they tithing before getting to Canaan or no? You can't eat your cake and have it back.

Here is the post that i addressed to Mark which i said he didn't reply.

Image123:
Don't be ridiculous. Mark didn't reply my last post to him.
Why not stay out of our discussion instead of unfounded and biased poke nosing.

Yeah right.
Rich coming from nairaland religion forum web famous post-crasher whose speciality is sticking nose in other people's threads that doesn't involve him, and leaving trails of graffiti remarks behind.
- the irony is that he now is proffering that others "stay out of our discussion"

And, as any honest person can see, I did prove that God emphatically stated that tithes were agricultural only... Contrary to Image's claim that I didn't.

No, they were not tithing prior to entering Canaan. But, they were doing whatever they thought was right in their own eyes. Such nonsense would stop once they entered Canaan. They would do as God commanded or face punishment... And that included the command to tithe. God said His holy tithe was agricultural, and that is what He meant it to be.

BabaGnoni:
Yeah right.
Rich coming from nairaland religion forum web famous post-crasher whose speciality is sticking nose in other people's threads that doesn't involve him, and leaving trails of graffiti remarks behind.
- the irony is that he now is proffering that others "stay out of our discussion"

Any problem? You seem about to say something or need counsel?

MarkMiwerds:
And, as any honest person can see, I did prove that God emphatically stated that tithes were agricultural only... Contrary to Image's claim that I didn't.

No, they were not tithing prior to entering Canaan. But, they were doing whatever they thought was right in their own eyes. Such nonsense would stop once they entered Canaan. They would do as God commanded or face punishment... And that included the command to tithe. God said His holy tithe was agricultural, and that is what He meant it to be.

Why? Do they pay you to lie? You just sent in your reply 9.50pm nl time, about 3hrs ago. This gets irritating really. I'll reply that post in due time on a computer.

Actually, my 9:50 answer was expounding on the previous answer I had written between 1 & 2 AM. Since your heart and/or greed had you blinded to what clearly was written in my earlier post, I figured I would post it again at an elementary level.



How much do you get paid for your false accusations?