₦airaland Forum

khaylee:
@Markmiwerds,
My parents have bin tithging for over 25yrs, they are not rich but God has fulfilled and is still fulfilling the promises in Mal 3:10 to them.

One of the promises He made in that chapter is that He will send the devourer far away from us, My tithging was on and off and believe you me my two kids were always down with one sickness or the other every month to the extent that one of the nurses in d hospital we use said to her one day " regular customer , you have come again"?

I knew where the problem was and four months ago I decided to be totally faithful. the only time we Hv bin to the hospital after that decision was when the younger of d kids used cotton buds to hurt her ear. so My broda its working for me .

Concerning the agriculture produce u talkd abt, u shld knw that was there main occupation back then.

I am sure u are one of those that claim the blesseings in Deut 28, y can't u say d blessings mentioned there are meant for farmers alone?

Like I said in my earlier post, its not a gaurantee of making heaven but it makes our life on earth a bit enjoyable.

Sorry for the long story culdnt make it shorter.

stay blessed.

agriculture was not their main occupation. They had many trades and occupations. Do you only read chapters that mention farming in the Bible? There were carpenters, lawyers, tax collectors, candlemakers, stone masons, forgers, merchants, seamen, and many other occupations.

The blessings associated with tithing were for tithing agriculture, not money. God never promised blessings for tithing money. It is wrong to say He did. His commanded tithes were agriculture even though money was widely used throughout Israel.

OLAADEGBU:
Yes. Here is another article that gives food for thought.

Okay sir you believe that Melchisedec is Jesus. The bible compares both using one was made "LIKE" the other and "AFTER" the order of another. Sir, do you think 2 come AFTER one and mean 2 is a number standing by itself and could only be said to come AFTER 1 and it will only take 2 different object or subject for both to be compared LIKE to each other. If Jesus was Melchisedec he can't be compared to himself but to another.if Jesus is Melchisedec do you also agree he literally live and reside as a king in Salem before being born of a virgin?What then is virgin birth to someone who already lived and rule as king in a Salem? Do you care to explain further sir.yhank you sir

FortresOfChrist:
Okay sir you believe that Melchisedec is Jesus. The bible compares both using one was made "LIKE" the other and "AFTER" the order of another. Sir, do you think 2 come AFTER one and mean 2 is a number standing by itself and could only be said to come AFTER 1 and it will only take 2 different object or subject for both to be compared LIKE to each other. If Jesus was Melchisedec he can't be compared to himself but to another.if Jesus is Melchisedec do you also agree he literally live and reside as a king in Salem before being born of a virgin?What then is virgin birth to someone who already lived and rule as king in a Salem? Do you care to explain further sir.yhank you sir

Where is this Salem that Melchisedek lived and ruled in?

OLAADEGBU:
Where is this Salem that Melchisedek lived and ruled in?

Sir you can teach me with bible verses but I will ask questions where unsure. Besides I asked some questions you don't answer them sir.do you mind answering my queries if Jesus was Melchisedec.

FortresOfChrist:
Sir you can teach me with bible verses but I will ask questions where unsure. Besides I asked some questions you don't answer them sir.do you mind answering my queries if Jesus was Melchisedec.

I believed I endeavoured to answer your question. It is not just a one way route you too should be prepared to answer pertinent questions if you are a sincere seeker of the truth.

OLAADEGBU:
Where is this Salem that Melchisedek lived and ruled in?

melchizedek's kingdom was an earthly kingdom. Jesus' Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus was not Melchizedek.

MarkMiwerds:
melchizedek's kingdom was an earthly kingdom. Jesus' Kingdom is not of this world. Jesus was not Melchizedek.

Have you heard of a theophany before?

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; (Hebrews 7:2)

Hebrews 7:2
7:2 King of Salem. The name Melchizedec means "King of Righteousness" and Salem means "peace," so this mysterious person is identified as King of Peace and Righteousness, as well as "priest of the most high God" (Hebrews 7:1). A number of modern archaeologists have speculated that the name Salem was actually "Salim," a god of the Amorites, but this idea is entirely hypothetical and is explicitly contradicted by this verse. Similarly, it is commonly assumed that Salem was the original name of Jerusalem, but there is no other record of such a city at this time, either in archaeology or Scripture. Note also Ezekiel 16:1-3, where Jerusalem is said to have been born of an Amorite and a Hittite, and thus had been anti-God from her very beginnings.

Speculations as to the identity of Melchizedec have been many and varied. Certain writers, ancient and modern, have suggested that he was either Shem or Job, both of whom were probably living at that time. If that were the case, however, there could seem no reason why he would not be called by his actual name. Certain Seventh Day Adventists have speculated that he was the "unfallen Adam from another planet," translated here to observe the process of redemption on this planet. This unorthodox notion must first overcome the hard fact that there is no valid evidence whatever, either in science or Scripture, that other inhabitable planets even exist at all—there are certainly none in the solar system. Most evangelicals say he was merely an obscure king of a small city-state about whom neither history nor the Bible knows anything other than the facts mentioned here. If that was his status, how did he get to be the founder of a priestly order greater than that of Aaron, one to whom even Abraham paid tithes? If anyone could be called “the priest of the most high God” (Genesis 14:18) at this time in history, it would seem that it should be Abraham himself—or possibly Job, “none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man” (Job 2:3), or even the patriarch Shem, who was still alive at this time, assuming no significant gaps in the genealogies of Genesis 11. But all of these have already been ruled out. If Melchizedec was greater them Shem or Job or Abraham, he must have been more than mortal man. The next verse confirms this.

OLAADEGBU:
Have you heard of a theophany before?

of course I have heard of a Theophany before. A Theophany is the appearance of God or a god to a human. Melchizedek was not a Theophany, nor a Christophany. He was an established king of an established earthly kingdom.

Psalms 76:2 (KJV) 2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

Jerusalem is also known as Mount Zion. There's the connection. Salem is Jerusalem.

Melchizedek was king of Salem, but not a Theophany.

MarkMiwerds:
of course I have heard of a Theophany before. A Theophany is the appearance of God or a god to a human. Melchizedek was not a Theophany, nor a Christophany. He was an established king of an established earthly kingdom.

Psalms 76:2 (KJV) 2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

Jerusalem is also known as Mount Zion. There's the connection. Salem is Jerusalem.

Melchizedek was king of Salem, but not a Theophany.

Read this article. It will be of help in understanding who Melchizedek really is.

Qumran and Melchizedek (11Q13)

The fascination of Melchizedek was certainly not lost on the Jewish people. There are 11 references to Melchizedek in Dead Sea Scrolls. The Qumran community (Dead Sea Scrolls) had a tremendous respect and doctrine concerning Melchizedek and the year of Jubilee is found on one of the scrolls. The Qumran community understood the remission of debts that took place during the year of Jubilee to also include the forgiveness of sins. The agent of this salvation was to be Melchizedek. Melchizedek is seen as a God-figure and a Messianic figure who is to atone for the sins of the righteous and execute judgments upon the wicked. Further, by the power of Melchizedek, dominion on earth was to pass from Satan to the righteous Sons of Light. Notice with me some of the teachings that Qumran has concerning Melchizedek:

“Then the Day of Atonement shall follow at the end of the tenth Jubilee period, when he shall atone for all the Sons of Light and the people who are predestined to Melchizedek […] For this is the time decreed for “the year of Melchizedek’s favor (Isaiah 61:2) and for his hosts, together with the holy ones of God, for a kingdom of judgment, just as it is written concerning him in the Songs of David, ‘A godlike being has taken his place in the council of God; in the midst of the divine beings he holds judgment’ (Psa. 82:1).”

Notice the substitution of “Melchizedek’s favor” for “Lord’s favor.”

“Therefore Melchizedek will thoroughly prosecute the vengeance required by God’s statutes. In that day he will deliver them from the power of Belial, and from the power of all the spirits predestined to him. Allied with him will be all the righteous divine beings (Isa. 61:3).”

This vi[sitation] is the Day of [Salvation] that He has decreed [through Isai]ah the prophet [concerning all the captives,] inasmuch as scripture sa[ys, "How] beautiful upon the mountains are the fee[t of] the messeng[er] who [an]nounces peace, who brings [good] news, [who announces salvat]ion, who [sa]ys to Zion, ‘Your [di]vine being [reigns'" (Isaiah 52:7). ] This scripture’s interpretation: “the mounta[ins" are the] prophet[s,] they w[ho were sent to proclaim God's truth and to] proph[esy] to all I[srael.] “The messenger” is the [An]ointed of the spir[it,] of whom Dan[iel] spoke, ["After the sixty-two weeks, an Anointed one shall be cut off" (Daniel 9:26). The "messenger who brings] good news, who announ[ces salvation"] is the one of whom it is wri[tt]en, ["to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor, the day of vengeance of our God;] to comfo[rt all who mourn" (Isaiah 61:2). This scripture's interpretation:] he is to inst[r]uct them about all the periods of history for eter[nity … and in the statutes of] [the] truth. […] [… dominion] that passes from Belial and ret[urns to the Sons of Light …] […] by the judgment of God, just as it is written concerning him, ["who says to Zi]on ‘Your divine being reigns’” (Isaiah 52:7). ["Zi]on” is [the congregation of all the sons of righteousness, who] uphold the covenant and turn from walking [in the way] of the people. “Your di[vi]ne being” is [Melchizedek, who will del]iv[er them from the po]wer of Belial.

Concerning what scripture says, “Then you shall have the trumpet [sounded loud; in] the [seventh m]o[nth…" (Leviticus 25:9).]

Notice that last bit of that large paragraph: Zion is the congregation of the righteous and the divine being is Melchizedek who is act as the deliverer (Messiah).

The question we are certainly left with is how widespread was this think among the Jewish people concerning Melchizedek and the Messiah. But I don’t think we should ignore this information. The writer of Hebrews may be recalling this knowledge from these Jewish Christians and is now going to expand upon it. http://westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com/hebrews/hebrews_7.html

Bidam:
Read this article. It will be of help in understanding who Melchizedek really is.

i have no need to read the article. The Bible tells me who he was.

King of Salem
Priest of the Most High God
Made like unto the Son of God

He was an established king and Priest of an established earthly kingdom. He was not the Son of God, but was made like unto the Son of God.

MarkMiwerds:
i have no need to read the article. The Bible tells me who he was.

King of Salem
Priest of the Most High God
Made like unto the Son of God

He was an established king and Priest of an established earthly kingdom. He was not the Son of God, but was made like unto the Son of God.

Good job brother.

[quote author=MarkMiwerds post=28488086]i have no need to read the article. The Bible tells me who he was.

Yet you have the temerity to quote an extra-biblical article from Josephus for us? Who is fooling who?

King of Salem
Priest of the Most High God
Made like unto the Son of God

He was an established king and Priest of an established earthly kingdom. He was not the Son of God, but was made like unto the Son of God.

The onus is on you to provide facts about this so called imaginary earthly kingdom of yours.

flourishG:
Good job brother.

Ignorance is no excuse. God punishes ignorance.

the difference in what I posted and what you posted is obvious. Concerning what my article says about Melchizedek, it is in agreement with the Biblical text. The Qumran contradicts the Biblical text.

MarkMiwerds:
the difference in what I posted and what you posted is obvious. Concerning what my article says about Melchizedek, it is in agreement with the Biblical text. The Qumran contradicts the Biblical text.

How did the dead sea scroll contradicts bible text? Have you heard of the dead sea scroll? Your article is a big contradiction to Melchizedek of the Bible.

Bidam:
How did the dead sea scroll contradicts bible text? Have you heard of the dead sea scroll? Your article is a big contradiction to Melchizedek of the Bible.

No, my article does not contradict the Bible.

Psalm 76:2 identifies Salem as Mount Zion. Mount Zion is also known as Jerusalem.

Bidam:
Ignorance is no excuse. God punishes ignorance.

like ignorant men in da pulpit?

MarkMiwerds:
No, my article does not contradict the Bible.

Psalm 76:2 identifies Salem as Mount Zion. Mount Zion is also known as Jerusalem.

So if God's tent is in salem. Are you saying God is Melchizedek? . You see how you contradict yourself again.

flourishG:
like ignorant men in da pulpit?

Have you noticed your friend blunders?

Bidam:
So if God's tent is in salem. Are you saying God is Melchizedek? . You see how you contradict yourself again.

Did I say God was Melchizedek? No! I did not!

David wrote Psalm 76 centuries after Abram's meeting with Melchizedek.

Nice try, but it didn't work. Now try being honest.

MarkMiwerds:
agriculture was not their main occupation. They had many trades and occupations. Do you only read chapters that mention farming in the Bible? There were carpenters, lawyers, tax collectors, candlemakers, stone masons, forgers, merchants, seamen, and many other occupations.

Here is a kind of the dishonesty and ultimate uselessness of engaging you and your likes. Was Israel not agrarian?

What's more entertaining that a shameless display of ignorance! Were they all farmers?

Image123:
Here is a kind of the dishonesty and ultimate uselessness of engaging you and your likes. Was Israel not agrarian?

Image123:
Here is a kind of the dishonesty and ultimate uselessness of engaging you and your likes. Was Israel not agrarian?

On the contrary you are the one that is brazenly dishonest. The statement Mark made is a fact except you can prove otherwise maybe you should tell us why God never requested tithes from the income of these other professions.

Image123 , Still hoping for 100 fold harvest from tithe payments since Nairaland started, lol.

vooks:
What's more entertaining that a shameless display of ignorance! Were they all farmers?

Did anyone say that they were all farmers? This bizarre solidarity makes one HOPE that you are all just ignorant as against dishonest. It is that bad.

Image123:
Did anyone say that they were all farmers? This bizarre solidarity makes one HOPE that you are all just ignorant as against dishonest. It is that bad.

It's you and your ilk that are dishonest as far as this topic is concerned. Ole barawo buruku

Who is claiming that tithes were agricultural because Israel was agrarian here, me or you?

Let me preempt pea-brained arguments.
Israel was largely agrarian so instead of God commanding tithes of every other vocation, He stuck with the majors.

When you recall that Abraham bought a field with money hundreds of years before the Law not to mention that at least one of the three tithes could be converted to cash,taken to Jerusalem and reconverted to food, and some tithes could be redeemed at 120% their value in cold cash,you have to put on your dumb and obtuse double Kevlar armor not to see that God wanted NOTHING to do with money and tithes mixing

Image123:
Did anyone say that they were all farmers? This bizarre solidarity makes one HOPE that you are all just ignorant as against dishonest. It is that bad.

Where is the Biblical proof that Israel was an agrarian society? Or even largely agrairian? When the old Testament mentioned other job descriptions and those who fulfilled them, was it lying?

The problem I have with this whole tithe fiasco is the lack of evidence that Israel was solely, or mostly, agrarian. I have a problem with the claim that we should be tithing our money when there is absolutely no recorded instance in the Bible of anyone being told to do such.

The only way to arrive at a conclusion of a money tithe being necessary is to completely ignore the biblical text itself.

vooks:
Who is claiming that tithes were agricultural because Israel was agrarian here, me or you?

Let me preempt pea-brained arguments.
Israel was largely agrarian so instead of God commanding tithes of every other vocation, He stuck with the majors.

When you recall that Abraham bought a field with money hundreds of years before the Law not to mention that at least one of the three tithes could be converted to cash,taken to Jerusalem and reconverted to food, and some tithes could be redeemed at 120% their value in cold cash, you have to put on your dumb and obtuse double Kevlar armor not to see that God wanted NOTHING to do with money and tithes mixing

Chai!!!

MarkMiwerds:
of course I have heard of a Theophany before. A Theophany is the appearance of God or a god to a human. Melchizedek was not a Theophany, nor a Christophany. He was an established king of an established earthly kingdom.

Psalms 76:2 (KJV) 2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

Jerusalem is also known as Mount Zion. There's the connection. Salem is Jerusalem.

Melchizedek was king of Salem, but not a Theophany.

Did you read that it is commonly assumed that Salem was the original name of Jerusalem from the excerpt I posted? and that "there is no other record of such a city" at the time Abram met Melchisedek, either in archaeology or Scripture.

"In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion" (Psalm 76:2).

Was the city of Jerusalem existing at the time Abraham gave his tithes to Melchisedec?

Here is a bible commentary throwing more light on Psalm 76:2

76:2 Salem.

This is the only place in the Old Testament where the name of "Jerusalem" ("the City of Peace”) is abbreviated to "Salem" (or simply “Peace”). Since this psalm is looking forward to the millennium, when God “shall speak peace” (Zechariah 9:10) to all nations, and “out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem” (Isaiah 2:3), the city may then be known simply as Salem. It is true that Melchizedek was called “the king of Salem” in the days of Abraham (Genesis 14:18), but this was probably a theophany, not referring to an earthly city at all, but to the heavenly city (see note on Hebrews 7:2, etc.).

DJHayes:
Where is the Biblical proof that Israel was an agrarian society? Or even largely agrairian? When the old Testament mentioned other job descriptions and those who fulfilled them, was it lying?

The problem I have with this whole tithe fiasco is the lack of evidence that Israel was solely, or mostly, agrarian. I have a problem with the claim that we should be tithing our money when there is absolutely no recorded instance in the Bible of anyone being told to do such.

The only way to arrive at a conclusion of a money tithe being necessary is to completely ignore the biblical text itself.

Your observation is truthfully right. They claim Israel was main or solely agrarian society then but right in their face, scriptures proved them wrong. Many occupations were mentioned in the law but none of them the law required them to tithe.