₦airaland Forum

walexbiz:
I'd appreciate your willingness to educate us on diffence between corruption and stealing but i stand to diagree with you on your explanation. In your analogy you said stealing is an individual thing while corruption is systemic. According to webster dictionary; corruption is defined as lacking of integrity (suscepible to bribery) use of a position of trust for dishonest gain. From this definition it clearly shows corruption is independent of wether system or individuals involved rather it potrays the character of the system or person. Corruption also is not limited only to financial transaction but also to moral behavior, a hypocrite can be said to be morally corrupt

This is where many of you make a mess of communication!
Every word and sentence has a context.

How about "Buhari bombs Jonathan?"

We all know what bomb means, but it can change meaning within a context.
Mr. President was speaking within context of governance.

Corruption is used to describe rot in the system of governance.
Mr. President was saying, that an individual working for the government stole is not equivalent to government being corrupt.

sademola:
My friend, drop the sentiment. You, my very self, GEJ and others know that this government as well as those before are CORRUPT and STEALs

A spade remain spade mo matter the make or color!

This thread is not about whether this government is corrupt or not, whether they steal or not.

The thread is on, "What do you understand by stealing is not corruption" as said by Mr. President.

That is just what I have explained.
the was saying that an individual in government stole (stealing) is different from rot in the system (corruption).
Now, whether he is stealing or the whole system is rot, is another ball game altogether.

VolvoS60:
^^^^
It seems this is all a game to you.

The very real consequences of the PDP's failure (of which GEJ's government is the most recent example) to live up to its responsibilities are all around us. And yet you consider it 'noble' to take your countrymen on an uneccessary diversion, splitting hairs on 'contextual meaning' and the like.

The worst part of it all is that your 'thesis' is disingenuous. Corruption is not a game of numbers as your crude theory of 7 family members implies. No. The key issue here is the consequences (or lack thereof) for unlawful activity and this is where the GEJ administration has flat out failed. You know this is true. The most compelling evidence of your hack writing is that in your theory, you did not in any way touch on the CONSEQUENCES of stealing for the one member of the family who unlawfully took the money placed in his care. That is the heart of the matter. There are no consequences for wrongdoing in the GEJ administration and that is why it is corrupt. Period.

Nigerians know what they need to do to in February next year to force their leaders to be accountable. Whether they have the guts and single mindedness to do it is another matter altogether.

We shall see.

CONTEXT is force to be reckoned with whenever we talk about communication. You cannot communicate effective without context.
I once saw a headline, "Buhari bombs Jonathan"
If you don't consider context, you will surely have a problem with that statement.

This thread is not about the consequences of stealing or corruption.
The thread has a context: What do you understand by Stealing is not Corruption.

If you start talking about the consequences of stealing or corruption, you will simply be out of point.

I understand your sentiment though but please let me assure you that I am neither justifying nor defending stealing and/or corruption.

Even Mr. President in that sentence was not defending stealing neither was he supporting corruption.

Let me make it clearer:
If an individual working for government steals, it can easily be detected an that individual can easily be punished.
But for corruption? It will be so hard to trace who stole what because all the people are working together to perpetuate evil.

In a case of stealing, you can easily identify the thief, arrest him and charge him to court.
At the court, you provide evidence, you call your witnesses who will support your arguemens.

In the case of corruption, you cant hold any particular individuals.
All the records would be "correct". Those who could serve as your witnesses are all involved.
That is why corruption fight is not abut hounding people, it is about being smart.

There is corruption in the oil sector! It is not a case of one individual stealing, it is a case of rot in the whole system.
That was why the best approach was to remove subsidy and that will pull off the platform!

Nigerians were deceived by those benefiting from that rot.

patrickmuf:
Going by your logic, a minister that steals does so on his own accord, will it also be fair to praise the minister for his achievements instead of the government?
Also, if each minister, senator, governor or any individual in a position steal without the corroboration of others, it is still fair to tag it as stealing and not corruption?
Point is if you know a thief and don't report the thief to the appropriate authority, technically you're also a thief (corrupt)
For the President to admit to the activities of thieves and still not do anything to forestall or checkmate them, he is also corrupt...

Which minister that stole am I praising? Or is it Mr. President that is praising them?
That is by the way.

I remember the case of the pension thief, he was arrested and charged to court.
And what did the judge do?
He gave a slap on the wrist, and let him go.

So many other cases are judged in the favour of the culprits and you find the EFCC appealing such cases.
Bros, mind you, in the eyes of the law, these people are innocent until you prove them guilty!

The likes of OBJ, IBB, Abacha, Tinubu, Buhari, Orji Kalu, Atiku, Amechi, Etc are all "thieves and corrupt men" in my own eyes, but you see I am on my own! It is not about sentiments.

Until a court pronounces them so, I am breaking the law by calling them thieves. Mr. President needs to be careful of what he says about individuals. Peter Odili to a perpetual court injunction not to be arrested by the EFCC, tell me what you can do about that?

noblezone:
CONTEXT is force to be reckoned with whenever we talk about communication. You cannot communicate effective without context.
I once saw a headline, "Buhari bombs Jonathan"
If you don't consider context, you will surely have a problem with that statement.

This thread is not about the consequences of stealing or corruption.
The thread has a context: What do you understand by Stealing is not Corruption.

If you start talking about the consequences of stealing or corruption, you will simply be out of point.

I understand your sentiment though but please let me assure you that I am neither justifying nor defending stealing and/or corruption.

Even Mr. President in that sentence was not defending stealing neither was he supporting corruption.

Let me make it clearer:
If an individual working for government steals, it can easily be detected an that individual can easily be punished.
But for corruption? It will be so hard to trace who stole what because all the people are working together to perpetuate evil.

In a case of stealing, you can easily identify the thief, arrest him and charge him to court.
At the court, you provide evidence, you call your witnesses who will support your arguemens.

In the case of corruption, you cant hold any particular individuals.
All the records would be "correct". Those who could serve as your witnesses are all involved.
That is why corruption fight is not abut hounding people, it is about being smart.

There is corruption in the oil sector! It is not a case of one individual stealing, it is a case of rot in the whole system.
That was why the best approach was to remove subsidy and that will pull off the platform!

Nigerians were deceived by those benefiting from that rot.

^^^^
I strongly disagree, sir.

I understand perfectly well what context means. Please note that it has absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed. I am not even going to go into the linguistic gymnastics being performed by those of you trying to explain or rationalize GEJ's statement. There is nothing to explain there.

You have persisted with your thesis that while stealing is a crime committed by individuals, corruption is a 'majority offence' and as such those guilty of it cannot be held accountable. This assertion by you sir, is patently false.

GEJ knew what he was saying and why he said it. I urge you to get the transcripts of the interview.

We are not children.

KwoiZabo:
whatever it is, I know that Nigeria overtook 8 countries in the Global corruption perception index so GEJ is working.

Is that how you see it?I see it as 8 countries becoming more corrupt than us.Nothing has changed since we the 2nd most corrupt nation in the world

Dereformer:
did you say our oyel money?

Tell me how many barrels of oil your village produced since 1956:

Twaat, tell us how many barrel of oyel you have drank since 1956. You lots talk as though the other parts of the nation contribute nothing when it is the idiots in government who refused to exploit other areas.

And let me tell you just in case you do not know, Nigeria was surviving when there was no oil.

VolvoS60:
^^^^
I strongly disagree, sir.

I understand perfectly well what context means. Please note that it has absolutely no relevance to the topic being discussed. I am not even going to go into the linguistic gymnastics being performed by those of you trying to explain or rationalize GEJ's statement. There is nothing to explain there.

You have persisted with your thesis that[b] while stealing is a crime committed by individuals, corruption is a 'majority offence'[/b] and as such those guilty of it cannot be held accountable. This assertion by you sir, is patently false.

GEJ knew what he was saying and why he said it. I urge you to get the transcripts of the interview.

We are not children.

Not exactly.

My position is not general in aspects of life.

My position is particular to government and government institutions.

Corruption (with respect to government) refers to rot in the system.
And the statement "stealing is not corruption" is referring to that particular reference to government:
That an individual working for government stole, does not mean that the government is rot (or corrupt).
At this juncture, I can only conclude that you are innocently misunderstanding me and I am not blaming you for that.

Cheers

noblezone:
Not exactly.

My position is not general in aspects of life.

My position is particular to government and government institutions.

Corruption (with respect to government) refers to rot in the system.
And the statement "stealing is not corruption" is referring to that particular reference to government:
That an individual working for government stole, does not mean that the government is rot (or corrupt).
At this juncture, I can only conclude that you are innocently misunderstanding me and I am not blaming you for that.

Cheers

^^^^

No problem sir. Time will tell...