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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference (31273 Views)
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Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 10:39am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: No brother, far from the truth. Bro, what are you talking about that you have it smeared all over your mouth. You are way off tangent here, sorry to say it like this bro but this kind of tunnel vision about hearing from God would not serve any well or meaningful purpose Is this why one wants or needs to hear from God? Because of "success", prosperity, riches and/or wealth etcetera? If yes, then the motives are wrong, and what one will be hear speaking will be flesh, not God. You asked about the definition of voice. Flesh talks too, I know you can relate to this truth and fact that flesh has a voice and it talks LOL Dont be obnoxious about wise decision making, good successes, prosperous and successful lives We need to study Solomon, to find out about how and why God blessed him and gave him a wise and discerning heart, so that there will never have been anyone like him, nor will there ever be (i.e. he, Solomon, didnt ask for long life or riches or the life of his enemies but got them all the same because he desired rightly, the first time round) also study Joshua's account about good success, how God explained the requirement for a prosperous and successful life Bro, in Jeremiah 29:11, God said: For I know the plans I have for you," says the LORD. "They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope. so for the umpteeth time whatever one hears outside scripture ALWAYS complements scripture and the word of God, anything else or short of that, is delusional and deceptional |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 10:47am On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: You must understand the relationship between God and the nation of Israel is earthly while that of the church is heavenly. What God gave as earthly in the old is a shadow of what He can do and not a guarantee of what He will do. You will find the likes of Abraham, Solomon in the old and Paul, Peter in the new. Our hope isn't on good success today like it would have been in the old. Our Hope is anchored by what is to come through Christ. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 10:48am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: When my investment failed...you read that I said all things works together for my good...both good and bad...yes...like Paul, I rejoice in tribulations and good times...like Paul I have learned how to abased and how to abound.... I don't wanna be drawn with the issues of wealth, success etc...My point is:There are specific issues the bible is not explicit about that relates to us...and God...our father is committed to such details and he can lead us in whatever medium he decides...Examples of that are plenty in the bible.... But also...because God leads or say something doesn't mean it will work or end well...I can also give you plenty of that in the bible....God has always decided to work with man in fulfilling his will and work... Samson was supposed to lead Isreal to win many wars...an angel even appeared and deliver the words...did it happened? Didn't Samson messed it up? SOMETIMES if not most times...God's dealing with man always involved mans cooperation. Peter should have taken the gospel to the gentiles...even in the vision he had he still refused to eat what was given to him...it was hard for him in that area.... On this note...I submit on this subject. May God grant us more understanding of his word. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 10:50am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: You lost me with the bold. You want to back track and leave trails for me to clearly follow by the way, whether it's "the likes of Abraham, Solomon in the old and Paul, Peter in the new" getting priorities right, is open door for hearing from God |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 11:03am On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: They were never aware of a place called heaven and hell in the old testament, it was always between success for obedience and destruction for disobedience. Today, our priority isn't earthly success (anyone diligent can have that) but heavenly glory that is to come by Christ. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 11:32am On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: bro you left me ROTFL, but it is alright ooo however correctly, hell is a greek concept, Jews never had hell, they never shared the Greek mythology of hell. They had sheol quite alright they definitely were aware of sheol, abraham's bosom or paradise I sincerely hope you study the intricacy of Solomon's prayer and/or desire. It was not a "self interest, self-seeking, self-serving, self centred" request but was about what God had put him in charge over The ability to discern from good and bad when managing the people God placed under his, Solomon's care The snippet is Solomon's prayer and/or desire: "Give me a discerning heart to govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong. For who is able to govern this great people of yours?" That is how hearing the voice of God, aside clear instructions in the Bible, and responding appropiately is all about. Who is able to "govern", to check the flesh, check its avarices, check this great body of ours given to us by God to look after? etcetera With media pressure, subliminal advertising, sex in advertising or the use of sex appeal in advertising, peer pressure, misplaced priorities etcetera we definitely need that extra ever ready helpful voice of God to steer and guide on us, especially if a physical Bible isnt readily available and we can be rest assured whatever we hear, however we hear it, the voice will ALWAYS compliment and not go against the written counsel of God's word or the Bible |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 11:33am On Dec 13, 2014 |
sammied: That is the spirit the bible present. What we call good isn't necessarily what God calls good. Luke 16 What society sees and calls monumental, God sees through and calls monstrous. I have two group of people in my life. The good friends and the bad friends. When I look through God's knowledge of scripture, which set of friends teach me more about life? My bad friends. So I don't curse or say bad things about them cos they teach me more and push me more than the good ones. Many things I know today came from one bad decision I had made earlier in life. I believe God bring these two set of people in my life because they are needed for my walk in life. sammied: I believe the passage that says 'we are led by the Spirit of God if we are sons'. What I call a bad decision might be God's way of transforming my way of thinking or a way of breaking down my defences from putting any trust in the flesh. The very moment a soul is broken down in true self-judgment, God rises before it in all His grace, majesty and benevolence as the Justifier.For our God delights in a broken and contrite spirit, He finds His habitat in such a soul. sammied: I believe the bible gives us a good platform to learn through biblical characters. Notice all failures recorded in scriptures are linked to SELF through disobedience or legalism. Jesus couldn't have failed because he submitted himself completely to God and His counsel. Paul couldn't have failed because he was sold out to God as a bond servant. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 11:43am On Dec 13, 2014 |
[size=5pt] shdemidemi:[/size] ^^^ All the above no one is disagreeing with you, the truth & fact is God speaks aside the Bible. You can take it or leave it |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 11:44am On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: Bro, I am happy you are laughing, its sure good for the soul. King Solomon wrote three canonized books, it does not surprise me when most prosperity preachers go to these books to dig out formulas to success. If we take the book or the verses of those books in isolation we will sure make them mean anything we desire but those views will be contrary to the overall and holistic gist of scripture. The books were progressive... Solomon's state of mind and what mattered to him at every point was also moving in stages. At the end of it all Solomon came to himself, he counted all he had acquired as dreg. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 12:06pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi:^^^ Try and not be ignorant about Solomon like your allegedly "prosperity preachers" bro. Have you read anywhere yet on this thread anyone insinuating that hearing the voice of God or hearing from God is about formulas or formulae? Please be mature and honest in your rebuttals Sure Solomon started well, he put his best foot forward at the beginning with that prayer of his I previously shared (i.e. II Chronicles 1:10) but Solomon went downhill after obtaining the wisdom, wealth, harem etcetera, he, Solomon got influenced with foreign gods and practices through the many wives & concubines acquired and allowed his head swell too shdemidmi, compare II Chronicles 9:22 at Solomon's death with II Chronicles 1:12 at Solomon's beginning, what do you observe or notice in the wording arrangement |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 12:10pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: All these subtle jabs your sharing.. DIA IS GOD oooo.... |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 12:13pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi:You know me that, I am a strong advocate and evangelist of laughter a study claims that children laugh more than 300 times a day, whereas adults laugh less than 17-20 times a day Laughter frees up quite a lot of things, thanks for today's earlier dosage LOL Bro, we both grown, and all good with each other as you already know, nothing personal bro Nobi me only waka come ooo LOL so in my best "Dragon's Den" catchphrase: Am out |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 5:14pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: From the above, it means you accept the OT is also the Word of God. Which is the same as Jesus. Yet, after the OT, God continued to speak to people outside the written scriptures. That contradicts your claim from Hebrews that God has spoken to us through His Word and thus need not speak in any other way, besides pain. BTW, your adding pain as a means of communication also contradicts your assertion about Hebrews. Pain was not added there. If you could add pain, so can we add other things. And nobody said an audible voice is the only way God speaks outside the Bible. Besides, do you believe the devil speaks to people today? Have you ever asked the people that hear the devil and his demons what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's? |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 6:09pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
nlMediator: The Old Testament isn't Jesus. It is a shadow of what is to come by Christ. nlMediator: It is not my claim, it is clearly written in the book. It is plainly divided into prophets and the Son in the book. Hebrews 1 King James Version (KJV) 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son nlMediator: Pain or disaster isn't a means of communication but a way to subject our flesh to mortification thus our spirit become induced to look up to God at such times. We almost present ourselves as the all in all and end in all when things are happening all around us. Disappointments some times helps take the chip off our shoulder. The life of Job is a perfect example of this, everything was going on well for the man until God nudged him. The man said things that revealed all of his weaknesses and all that was fundamentally wrong with Job. God came in to the scene to eventually reveal Himself as the one behind all of Job's success and this He did not because of the works of Job (contrary to what Job thought) but because He is merciful. Job got the message via disaster. That is not to say disaster can supplant God's word as written in the the sacred scripture but its God's way of calling our attention back to Himself most times. nlMediator: You need to speak for yourself bro. Some people actually think God speak like you and I will speak to each other. Some say God appear to them in the person of Jesus to have a one on one chat. nlMediator: I have never met anyone who speaks with the devil. May be when or if I do I will pose the question. I believe the devil speak with most mainframe men of God if truly they hear voices and that is if it isn't all gimmicks and lies to stay relevant. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 6:40pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
Candour: Welcome, bro. I can see you've been out there raking in the cash, while devoted servants of The Lord like us have been busy here toiling in the Master's Vineyard! Well, so long as you share the loot with those doing the Father's business, all is well. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 6:46pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: That settles it then. You believe the devil speaks to fake men of a God. But you never ask in what voice the devil speaks. Yet, when somebody says God speaks, you resort to that line of questioning. 1 Like |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 7:11pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
nlMediator: Why exactly should I want to know how the devil speak? |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 7:19pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
nlMediator: Very funny |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 7:27pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
shdemidemi: That's an irrelevant question. 1 Like |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 7:39pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
nlMediator: shdemidemi: Good catch nlMediator, didnt know you were keeping abreast of this thread and shdemidemi's dexterity at weaving in and out I didnt want to go down the route of "... people that hear the devil and his demons, what voice they used - man's, woman's, child's" with shdemidemi. This for the reason that knowing shdemidemi, he will lash on to it, use it as a distraction, divert from the original or main matter and possibly make a real meal out of it shdemidemi, nlMediator is on point, do you believe the devil and demons spoke to people in the past and still speaks to people today? Saul, the witch of Endor and the demon (i.e. familiar spirit) masquerading as Samuel is a classic example (i.e. 1 Samuel 28:3-20) Another are the demons (i.e. legion of them) cast into pigs (i.e. Mark 5:1-17) Let me share a story, a story about voices, I once heard a "friend" narrate. Back in the day, this "friend" decided one day to experiment with substances (i.e. cannabis also known as marijuana or igbo) The first time he tried igbo, it was only had a small amount of half finished wrap and it didn’t have much, if any effect on him but as for the second time and last, it did have some effects, very interesting effects This is the story and the interesting things that happened the second time round of smoking igbo He said, he asked the dealer to give him a good quality high grade igbo, as the first time he took it, the igbo didnt "shack" him at all (i.e. he didnt get high on it) He went home to enjoy the rolled up spliff, in the safety comfort of his home, he lit the joint and took a cautionary small drag of the weed, nothing happened, no effects, it was déjà vu, it was just like the first time. So he decided to up the ante by doing a deeper drag and inhalation, this time there was a surprising effect, he said he felt at peace, he felt floating and ascending into the air, he felt euphoric. He liked the feeling, and wanted more of it, so on the next inhalation, he took a deeper x2 inhalation, and that was when the first interesting thing happened, he felt light and dizzy, like he was spinning then like a bolt out of the blue he started hearing a voice, the voice was said: "You are high, and getting higher on your way to heaven, it is getting hot in here, take off your shirt, unbuckle your belt, pull off your trousers and flip off your shoes, Get yourself relaxed, be relaxed, ease the tension. The next round I promise you, you will be on cloud seven, it is going to be life changing and you would never be the same again" He said, he obeyed the voice, by taking off everything except for his pant or boxer-short and made himself comfortable He took another very deep deep drag of the weed, pow, again he heard the voice. The voice said: "yank off your pant or boxer-short, drop-kick the door, go out on to the street stark n@ked and starting doing 100m races" At this point, he said he came to himself, knowing that if he obeyed the voice and he cross that line, this will be the beginning of madness for him (i.e. kolo mental and/or Yaba left) He put out the cannabis, threw it away, stomped on it and quashed it with his feet on the floor, and that was his last time of smoking cannabis and hearing that voice "That settles it then. You believe the devil speaks to fake men of a God. But you never ask in what voice the devil speaks. Yet, when somebody says God speaks, you resort to that line of questioning." - © nlMediator ^^^ LOL, shdemidemi, stepped right in it. LOL Two people you dont want them catching you slacking are nlMediator and mbaemeka LOL try wriggle out of that gaffe shdemidemi LOL Good luck LOL |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by WinsomeX: 8:09pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
Summary of Nathan Busenitz' A Word from the Lord? 1. The bible proposes three criteria for identifying a false prophet: doctrinal orthodoxy; moral integrity and predictive accuracy. 2. Defenders of modern prophesy claim that there are two types of prophecy: those that are 100% accurate and those that are not. The bible does not make such distinction. All true prophets in scriptures were 100% accurate. 3. The NT prophet Agabus presented his prophecy in the same manner with the OT prophet saying "The Holy Spirit said..." and using symbols to explain the prophecy. 4. The call on us to test every prophecy is a confirmation of the fact that there are false prophecies. The three quotes by D M Lloyd Jones, C H Spurgeon and Prophet Jeremiah at the end of the text are worth careful perusal. The next presentation is by Phil Johnson: "Is There a Baby in the Charismatic Bath Water?". Interesting presentation. Stay tuned. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by Candour(m): 8:39pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
nlMediator: Bro, you're wrong actually. I'd been home all these while reading the posts on the thread but not venturing to post partly because I really am enjoying all the discussions and also because I'm banned from any other relationship (NL is like a mistress ) while at home with my queen and little royals (the Lady does not share ). Got back to work today so I'm free to engage now but you guys have gone so far that I'll have to be content with just reading and learning for now. I like the idea of the conference even if I'm not in full agreement with everything said there or with some posts here. We all will always have where we need growth and more understanding. I only pray for it not to be on the more essential tenets of our faith so we don't run the race in vain. So carry go......I dey for una back gidigba |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 10:35pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
Candour: Aah, you mean I heard the wrong voice telling me where you were? That's why we need to stick to "sufficiency of scripture." Sola scriptura all the way! No more false prophets. I support the queen 100%. As you can see, listening to her has made you a much better person. Remember, how terrible life was before you met her? |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by nlMediator: 10:36pm On Dec 13, 2014 |
BabaGnoni: Well laid out! QED. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by Candour(m): 5:36am On Dec 14, 2014 |
nlMediator: Exactly!! Get thee behind me.....false prophet I support the queen 100%. As you can see, listening to her has made you a much better person. Remember, how terrible life was before you met her? Nah..Who told u that?? I was born 'saint Candour' bro |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 6:43am On Dec 14, 2014 |
nlMediator: Jokester |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 7:48am On Dec 14, 2014 |
shdemidemi:^^^ |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by vooks: 12:47pm On Dec 14, 2014 |
Interesting. God is not speaking and if He did, he'd be ADDING to His Word or watering down the sufficiency of the scriptures. This despite the countless accounts he spoke in the scriptures without adding nothing. nlMediator: |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by sammied(m): 2:31pm On Dec 14, 2014 |
Some questions: How did Macauthur know he should assume the Pastorate of his present Church? How did he know he was to teach or Pastor..how did he know and entered the office (Pastor or Teacher)? Do you believe that God calls people to be Pastor or Teachers of the word like John Macauthur and the rest today? If yes...how did they know...? Since their name is not Particularly in the bible? Can/should every christian head a church? Those who are to head a church, how will they know since there's no particular scriptures addressed with their names? How did John Macauthur know he should head a church.?...at least there's no scriptures written confirming his name (in regards to heading a church). John Macauthur is a Pastor....how did he entered into that office....considering there's no scriptures with his name...saying he would enter that office...or should enter that office? Lastly, does God call certain people into the office of a Teacher or Pastor, or every christian should be in those offices? Note: I have no bias against Pastor John Macauthur. I used is name as example since we are dealing with a conference he organised...I could as well used R. C Sproul or anybody. 1 Like |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by Goshen360(m): 4:54pm On Dec 14, 2014 |
I don miss too much from this thread o. |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by shdemidemi(m): 6:13pm On Dec 14, 2014 |
sammied: My brother God does not need to speak to you personally for you to be a teacher or a pastor. If you have the gift, you won't even plan it. Your passion and desire will propel you to that place for the work. If you desire the job and you are gifted to teach, go ahead. As long as you meet bible criteria and understand scriptures. 1 Timothy 3 [b]3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.. [/b] |
Re: John Macarthur's 2013 Strange Fire Conference by BabaGnoni: 6:22pm On Dec 14, 2014 |
sammied:^^^ First, we all know what the distinction between church and "church" is, so no point to dwell at all on them. So we skip the distinction(s) between church and "church" and going directly on to "Pastor" (i.e. sammied's bone of contention) What is known as pastor(s) today, is what Jesus called hirelings or hired hand(s) in John 10:12-13 Jesus mentioned that the hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep and even before then called them thieves, saying "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (i.e. John 10:10) - Jesus, 2000 years ago, saw today coming. He saw the reality, the emergence of thief(eves) come only to steal and kill and destroy Before the upgrade to thieves status, Isaiah way back from the OT, has this to say (i.e. Isaiah 56:11) "They are dogs with mighty appetites; they never have enough. They are shepherds who lack understanding; they all turn to their own way, they seek their own gain." - Isaiah 56:11 NIV "Pastor". Hmm, pastor, pastorate or pastoring, this is an interesting one as there is ONLY ONE Pastor (i.e. Shepherd) which is our Lord Jesus. "Pastor", pastorate or pastoring has to do with pastures or pastoral. Remember the scripture, "Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture." (i.e. Psalms 100:3) - we are the sheep of the pasture of the LORD Shepherding, in this instance is a gift, it has no office or title. It is a privilege to shepherd on behalf of God but one doesnt take up the title or status (i.e. pastor) That office or title (i.e. Pastor) is reserved for our Lord Jesus Christ. There is ONLY ONE PASTOR Just as cooking doesnt make one a chef or because one cooks to call oneself a chef such is shepherd. Conveniently, there is only ONE mention of PASTOR in the NT, and where it was mentioned, it was used exclusively for our Lord Jesus Christ - you would find the word, pastors (i.e. pastor with a "s'' in Ephesians 4:11) once too in NT, which was translated from shepherd but as said, the only Pastor used in NT was used in reference to our Lord Jesus Christ It is a common parlance with our mums jokingly calling the kitchen's their "office" though they cook in the "office", they dont joke or make the mistake of seriously calling themselves the chef or assume the title So is with shepherding a gathering, it is a gift, it is not an office nor a pastorate title to assume (i.e. one uses the shepherd gift, as in to guide, to feed, to protect etcetera the Lord's sheep and pasture but not take on an office or title of pastor. There is only one Pastor) Religion, operating since time immemorial 45Then, with the crowds listening, he turned to his disciples and said, 46“Beware of these teachers of religious law! For they like to parade around in flowing robes and love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces. And how they love the seats of honor in the synagogues and the head table at banquets. 47Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely punished.” - Luke 20-45-47 NLT Just as cooking is a gift, mind you not all are good at cooking, if at all, any can cook, likewise are shepherds and teachers gifts Why are gifts been misconstrued as offices or titles? Those of us who have the gift of cooking, we cook like chefs but dont seriously call ourselves chefs Functioning as a shepherd is not a licence or permission to be called a pastor PS: Sorry I thought I was responding to shdemidemi, didnt realise quick enough that it was sammied's post |
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