Bidam:
I do not believe the doctrine of eternal security is the invention of calvin. The same calvin quoted the pauline epistles to butress his arguments as do Jacobus Arminius who also teaches that you can lose eternal life by sinning after your freewill decision that got salvation started. OSAS is used truthfully if it is applied to the will of God in election, the death of Christ in justification, or the cleansing of the Spirit in regeneration. We can glory in this manmade phrase by applying it to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ,the faithfulness and power of God and the meritorious value and perpetual intercession of Jesus Christ.

Bidam! You are on fire!

Hiswordxray:

I'm only trying to understand your view of the Bible.
Well, this is the summary of your view of the Bible:
Jesus is so blind that he could see that Peter will denial him but he couldn't see that Peter will end up preaching the wrong Gospel.
Jesus wasted his life teaching his disciples about faith and he have to send Paul to fix his failure.
God is so dumb that he allowed his Holy book to be co-authored with the devil.
Paul who strictly challenge anybody that preach another gospel (Gal 2:14-21) allowed Peter (the preacher of the wrong gospel) to teach the Church he (Paul) planted in Corinth (1Cor 1:12) and he forget to correct the errors that Peter must have taught them in his latter to the Corinthians.
The Bible contain two contrary Gospel.
Those that put the books of the Bible are so stupid that they put books of preachers that preach two contrary Gospel.
The Israelites is the body of Jesus and the Church is also the body of Jesus therefore Jesus have two bodies.

Did I miss anything out?
You may not say it in these exact words but this is what your teachings imply (if am wrong correct me)

So now my conclusion on your wonderful teaching:
This is exactly the kind of teaching that turn Christians to atheist.
Go and read your Bible again Or prove my summary of your teaching is wrong and explain better.

Ok bro.. If that is the way you see it even after you have been shown, what else can one do but dust his feet.

vooks:
Eternal security is an invention of Calvin and is a central tenet Calvinism and the various creeds emanating from it. Guys are busy defending dead men and their systems and they won't let facts confuse them

When you think about it,there is a continuum of beliefs from Eternal Insecurity where NOBODY is sure of their eternity to Eternal Security where your eternity is so sealed and NOTHING you do can undo that.

There is a wealth of scriptures against both position. I believe in Conditional Security. You are assured of your eternity as long as you remain in faith. You depart from faith and you are damned.

You probably don't know that before Calvin , there was no talk of ''loss of salvation''.
Conditional security = No security.

shdemidemi:
@Bidam

I so hate you this morning , sometimes you just get me confused. Is it like there is a multi ownership of your moniker or what?

You don talk true today, I respect it but hmm, the way you take a U-turn sometimes.

I asked him this same question once. The truth is that you are reading his present position.

Hiswordxray:

Or rather word "works" used by James is different from the word "works" Paul used.

Paul says we are not saved by our ''works of righteousness''- Titus 3:5. So what other works can be added to ''faith'' ?

trustman:

Faith is a non-meritorious expression.

When you have faith you will naturally act and behave in certain ways and this is called the works of faith.
James was talking about the works of faith.
There is no way you can believe something and not act in accordance to what you believe - this is what James was trying to explain.
But our divine teach shdemidemi thinks James was preaching another Gospel in the same Bible.

When Paul was explaining how we get saved he said we have to believe with our heart and confess with our mouth. Confessing with our mouth is an act of faith and it is "works".
So yes faith is works and we are saved by works.

5solas:

Paul says we are not saved by our ''works of righteousness''- Titus 3:5. So what other works can be added to ''faith'' ?

Works of faith.

Hiswordxray:

Works of faith.

Please name the works of faith and distinguish them from works of righteousness.

Hiswordxray:

When you have faith you will naturally act and behave in certain ways and this is called the works of faith.
James was talking about the works of faith.
There is no way you can believe something and not act in accordance to what you believe - this is what James was trying to explain.
But our divine teach shdemidemi thinks James was preaching another Gospel in the same Bible.

When Paul was explaining how we get saved he said we have to believe with our heart and confess with our mouth. Confessing with our mouth is an act of faith and it is "works".
So yes faith is works and we are saved by works.

Works that had no bearing in your salvation will have no bearing in your salvation!
You see how clumsy I am forced to write because I am forced to use salvation twice in a sentence and both meaning the same thing!

5solas:

Works that had no bearing in your salvation will have no bearing in your salvation!
You see how clumsy I am forced to write because I am forced to use salvation twice in a sentence and both meaning the same thing!

Tell me how you got saved.

Hiswordxray:

When you have faith you will naturally act and behave in certain ways and this is called the works of faith.
James was talking about the works of faith.
There is no way you can believe something and not act in accordance to what you believe - this is what James was trying to explain.
But our divine teach shdemidemi thinks James was preaching another Gospel in the same Bible.

When Paul was explaining how we get saved he said we have to believe with our heart and confess with our mouth. Confessing with our mouth is an act of faith and it is "works".
So yes faith is works and we are saved by works.

When James made the statement 'Faith without work is dead' what he simply said is:
Faith (i.e. Biblical truth, the body of what is believed, creed) if it is not put into application(works) is barren (produces nothing, shows no results - dead).

Hiswordxray:

Tell me how you got saved.

I was burdened with my sin. I understood through the preaching of the gospel that if I placed my faith in Christ , I would be saved. I did just that.

trustman:
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When James made the statement 'Faith without work is dead' what he simply said is:
Faith (i.e. Biblical truth, the body of what is believed, creed) if it is not put into application(works) is barren (produces nothing, shows no results - dead).

Exactly, you can't say you have faith and yet sit down and do nothing. Your must do something and that thing you do is works (although not works of righteousness/the law but just a natural response to your faith)

That application (works) is also a indispensable aspect of faith.

5solas:

I was burdened with my sin. I understood through the preaching of the gospel that if I placed my faith in Christ , I would be saved. I did just that.

Did you go to a pastor?
Did you say the sinner's prayer?
Did you confess your sin?
Did you get baptized?

Hiswordxray:

Exactly, you can't say you have faith and yet sit down and do nothing. Your must do something and that thing you do is works (although not works of righteousness/the law but just a natural response to your faith)

That application (works) is also a indispensable aspect of faith.

Note that the 'faith' he's talking about is not that of 'trust' in Christ for salvation.

Hiswordxray:

Did you go to a pastor?
Did you say the sinner's prayer?
Did you confess your sin?
Did you get baptized?

I went to a brother who had preached to me some months to that time and he led me to Christ. I am baptized, I prayed the sinner's prayer , confessed my sins. I still do all that once in a while (minus the baptism) just to be sure .

trustman:

Note that the 'faith' he's talking about is not that of 'trust' in Christ for salvation.

Are you implying I am not saved?

trustman:

Note that the 'faith' he's talking about is not that of 'trust' in Christ for salvation.

If you place your faith on Christ for salvation it will cause you to react in certain ways e.g:
go to a pastor
say the sinner's prayer
confess your sin
get baptized
All of these are works but act of faith not works of the law.
If you say all you need to do to be saved is believe then why did you say the sinners prayer and confess your sin. Remember Paul said you have to believe and confess your sin to be saved.
Why did Paul include confessing your sin?
Why didn't he just say believe?

Hiswordxray:

If you place your faith on Christ for salvation it will cause you to react in certain ways e.g:
go to a pastor
say the sinner's prayer
confess your sin
get baptized
All of these are works but act of faith not works of the law.
If you say all you need to do to be saved is believe then why did you say the sinners prayer and confess your sin. Remember Paul said you have to believe and confess your sin to be saved.
Why did Paul include confessing your sin?
Why didn't he just say believe?

Repentance itself is a gift, I hope you know that. God grants it. So I wont even say faith was my only work.

5solas:

I went to a brother who had preached to me some months to that time and he led me to Christ. I am baptized, I prayed the sinner's prayer , confessed my sins. I still do all that once in a while (minus the baptism) just to be sure .

You went to a brother because you believe --- an act of faith (works)
You prayed the sinners prayer because you believe --- another act of faith (works)
You confessed your sins because you believe Jesus can save you --- yet another act of faith (works)
End result --- you got saved.

Your believing in Jesus + your works of faith = Salvation.

My brother you were saved because you believed and you act in accordance to what you believe (works).
Remember Satan also believe but he didn't add works to is believe that is why he is not save.

5solas:

Repentance itself is a gift, I hope you know that. God grants it. So I wont even say faith was my only work.

Works of faith is not your work but a grace from God. Because works of faith is a natural response to the faith that God gave you.
So I'm not saying you were saved by your works but you were saved by grace (the works is grace ).
Do you understand?

It's been more than twenty three years since that day and I keep singing:

At the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light,
And the burden of my heart rolled away,
It was there by faith I received my sight,
And now I am happy all the day!

5solas:
It's been more than twenty three years since that day and I keep singing:

At the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light,
And the burden of my heart rolled away,
It was there by faith I received my sight,
And now I am happy all the day!

Bless God.

Hiswordxray:

Works of faith is not your work but a grace from God. Because works of faith is a natural response to the faith that God gave you.
So I'm not saying you were saved by your works but you were saved by grace (the works is grace ).
Do you understand?

It is because of Him that I am in Christ. He is the sole reason while I am saved and the next person is not.
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 1Cor. 1:30.

Hiswordxray:

Bless God.

Thank you.

What do you think Jesus meant by this:

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Matt. 11

Hiswordxray:

What did Jesus mean in these verses:
"5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6-6)

What did He mean here:
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10.

5solas:

I asked him this same question once. The truth is that you are reading his present position.

Yes. It is sad that these folks shouting calvinism!calvinism!! still don't get it that our acceptance by the Father has already been determined at the cross. Therefore, it is not based on how well we have done or how we are doing now.

Hiswordxray:

If you place your faith on Christ for salvation it will cause you to react in certain ways e.g:
go to a pastor
say the sinner's prayer
confess your sin
get baptized
All of these are works but act of faith not works of the law.
If you say all you need to do to be saved is believe then why did you say the sinners prayer and confess your sin. Remember Paul said you have to believe and confess your sin to be saved.
Why did Paul include confessing your sin?
Why didn't he just say believe?

I assumed you were following my thoughts from my last post. 

What I meant is this: the 'faith' James is talking about when he talks about faith without works being dead is not 'faith' as that of 'trust' in Christ for salvation.

That's what I explained when I said:
When James made the statement 'Faith without work is dead' what he simply said is:
Faith (i.e. Biblical truth, the body of what is believed, creed) if it is not put into application(works) is barren (produces nothing, shows no results - dead).

trustman:
[size=6pt][/size]

I assumed you were following my thoughts from my last post. 

What I meant is this: the 'faith' James is talking about when he talks about faith without works being dead is not 'faith' as that of 'trust' in Christ for salvation.

That's what I explained when I said:
When James made the statement 'Faith without work is dead' what he simply said is:
Faith (i.e. Biblical truth, the body of what is believed, creed) if it is not put into application(works) is barren (produces nothing, shows no results - dead).

I completely agree.
@Hiswordxray
Good works/deeds radiate from the live of a person who is truly saved , so if you are thinking you are saved and do not do good works/deeds, examine yourself, you might not be! (James 2:14-26 paraphrased ) We should look at verse 14 to 16 especially which generated his assertion that faith without works is dead.

Security based on faith is certainly not unconditional

5solas:

You probably don't know that before Calvin , there was no talk of ''loss of salvation''.
Conditional security = No security.

Bidam:
Yes. It is sad that these folks shouting calvinism!calvinism!! still don't get it that our acceptance by the Father has already been determined at the cross. Therefore, it is not based on how well we have done or how we are doing now.

Bidam!!!

Well, people like Frosbel, MostHigh, Jesusislord and their likes will flip this statement round to mean -do you mean we can start living in sin since you say we are sealed in Christ and heaven bound.

I wonder who sincerely come to God with an idea of disobeying or perpetually flouting the rules of who He decides to surrender his life to.