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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant (7306 Views)
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Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by PastorKun(m): 3:19pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Emusan: As i said ealier your interpretation of that passage is twisted cause if you read it in proper context you would have seen that the commandment that was anulled is the commandment to collect tithes. The only commandment that was mentioned in that passage prior to the instruction to anull the commandment was the commandment to tithe mentioned in verse 5. That aside some tithe merchants have argued that it was the Law that was being anulled, my response is that if that's the case tithing was part of the law so that means tithing still stands anulled especially as it was stated as part of the law earlier in the passage. And please stop referring to the illogical argument that Abraham tithed before the law because that just doesn't hold any water as a reason why Christians should tithe today. That type of reasoning is at best manipulative as there is nowhere in scriptures christians are asked to emulate the example of Abraham and if you want to argue this i can list at least five uncomplimentary things said about Abraham in scriptures which you would condemn if a christian should emulate it today. So just don't go there. 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by davien(m): 3:30pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
My biblical interpretation is right and yours is wrong! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by CAPTIVATOR: 4:16pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
SOME SHOCKING TRUTHS ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN TITHING DOCTRINE 1] Abraham NEVER tithes on his own property or livestock . 2] Jacob wouldnt tithe until God blessed him first. 3] Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and THERE ARE NO Levite priests today . 4] ONLY Food products from the land were tithable. 5] MONEY WAS NEVER A Tithable commodity. 6] Christian converts were NEVER asked to tithe. 7] the Apostles finance themselves by WORKING WITH THEIR OWN HANDS TO EARN A LIVING NOT Through TITHING 4 Likes |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 4:57pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Emusan: Quite brilliant commentary you had up there, but you still did not convince me on the tenability of tithing in the new covenant. The annulling of the Levitical priesthood cancelled tithing and other laws emanating from that imperfect priesthood. If you are saying, it was the priestly order ONLY that was annulled and not the accompanying laws, my question is: why is burnt offering not in practice today but only the adulterated version of tithing? Why is modern day tithing a monthly monetary subscription and not yearly/ triennial tithing in crops and livestock commanded by the same law? It is imperative to note that neither Jesus nor the Apostles collected or preached about tithe. Therefore, tithing is irrelevant in the Priestly order of our Lord Jesus Christ. To help you understand better, you may wish to reference your Encyclopedia history – Tithes in Christendom – only then would you realize how tithe crept to the church after many centuries of non-existence. Respect 2 Likes |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Nobody: 5:07pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
brocab:which bible you read? |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Nobody: 5:13pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Koolking:can you explain the weakness and unprofitableness in the context of the verse? please read verse 17 first. |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by brocab: 5:31pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
You being a JW I suppose we are reading different bibles? shyna01: 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 5:32pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
shyna01: The imperfection of the law renders it useless. Here in New American Standard version - For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Nobody: 5:32pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
PastorKun:can you explain Leviticus 27:30-32 |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Nobody: 5:37pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Koolking:I'm sorry but please what is this imperfection of the law? it seems we have two interpretations to said verse. |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Nobody: 5:39pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
brocab:who told you I'm a JW?........ |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 5:58pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Emusan: If the tithe was commandment to the Levitical priesthood, and you said it was the priesthood that was disanulled, then does the tithe still remain? Here's the thing, the Levi that the tithe commandment to be given were disanulled, it therefore means the tithe itself was disannulled along with. There is no legitimate explanation that the commandment to take tithe was disannulled but the tithe remains. The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come, are done away. A new Priest is risen and a dispensation now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were imperfect, frail. The better covenant brought the church and every believer into clearer light, more perfect liberty, and more abundant privileges. In the order of Aaron there was a multitude of priests, of high priests one after another; but in the priesthood of Christ there is only one and the same. This is the believer's safety and happiness that this everlasting High Priest is able to save to the uttermost in all cases. Surely then it becomes us to desire a spirituality and holiness, as much beyond those of the Old Testament believers, as our advantages exceed theirs in the New Covenant. 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 6:07pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
shyna01: Please refer to my explanation ^above (quoting Emusan), paragraph 2 & 3. |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Maamin(m): 7:03pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
davien: And yet an Atheist is concerned about that? 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by davien(m): 7:06pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Maamin:Haha....even better when mockery is confused for concern....I guess some folks are too slow to get what some smileys mean. |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Maamin(m): 7:09pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
davien: And you followed the thread up to it second page.. Nice mockery..really nice 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by davien(m): 7:17pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
Maamin:So a response in the second page alone means I followed everything? And it would seem that reading two pages is an extraordinary feet to you, no wonder you still believe in talking donkeys and snakes...lol |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by brocab: 7:21pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
You did say we read different bibles-I read the KJV, which bible do you read, that don't read the sacrificing tithing and offerings went together in the old testament, so if you are choosing to tithe at least do it right the way God said to do it? Don't separate tithing or offerings from sacrificing, those 3 came together every year-do it the way God said to do it. And the JW''s bible don't follow after the truth. So are you a JW? shyna01: |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Maamin(m): 7:42pm On Mar 16, 2015 |
davien: Should I take that as a mockery too? 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Emusan(m): 8:38am On Mar 17, 2015 |
Koolking: Thanks for your compliment. The annulling of the Levitical priesthood cancelled tithing and other laws emanating from that imperfect priesthood. This part is still where confusion lies, but let me put it this way this time maybe you can get my point. The LAW only recognized Levi tribe to be performing some tasks unto God which TITHE is among but this LAW that placed this AUTHORITY on Levi ONLY must be change since THE NEW PRIEST won't come from that tribe. So it was the LAW that ALLOWED ONLY Levi to be PRIEST that was disannulled which means another PRIEST must arise and this priest must not come FROM Levi tribe. If you are saying, [size=14pt]it was the priestly order ONLY that was annulled and not the accompanying laws,[/size] my question is: why is burnt offering not in practice today but only the adulterated version of tithing? Why is modern day tithing a monthly monetary subscription and not yearly/ triennial tithing in crops and livestock commanded by the same law? @bolded-The LAW or REQUIREMENT is "ONLY Levi tribe can become PRIEST in Israel" While the task to perform as a PRIEST are: 1) Collection of Tithes, 2) Burnt Offering, 3) Sacrifice for Atonement of sin both theirs and the Israelite. Please don't confuse the LAW with the task to perform in the office. Remember this from my earlier post "Though I need not to read into the word of God here because it was not only REQUIREMENT about the priesthood that was set aside, as we later read from the scriptures that some other things were set aside as well which one also PREDATED the day the office of the priests were established i.e BURNT OFFERRING..." It is imperative to note that neither Jesus nor the Apostles collected or preached about tithe. Therefore, tithing is irrelevant in the Priestly order of our Lord Jesus Christ. At least Jesus had the opportunity to openly condemn Tithe but He didn't. Of course, not only that Tithe crept to the church some centuries of non-existence, remember the 66 books you carry today was not arranged by Jesus nor the Apostles not after many centuries of non-compilation. |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 11:05am On Mar 17, 2015 |
Emusan: Methinks your mind is made up as a pro-tithe. We will go on and on without a valid statement from you to support tithing in the new covenant. It was a bit of a relief to note that you consciously conceded that "some things like burn offering was set aside. It will be out of place and rather illogical annulling an order due to its imperfection and uselessness and yet allow only one of the commandments or what you termed as tasks - tithe to continue. With your argument, was considering how you would explain to a non-Christian Hebrews 7 vs 5, 11-13: “And those descendants of Levites who are priests are commanded by the law to collect one tenth from the people of Israel, that is from their own countrymen even though their countrymen are also descendants of Abraham.” Let's jump to verses 11-13 : “It was on the basis of the Levitical priesthood that the law was given to the people of Israel. Now, if the work of the Levitical priests had been perfect there would be no need for a different kind of priest to appear, one who is in the priestly order of Melchizedek not of Aaron. For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law. And our Lord of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe of Judah and Moses did not mention his tribe when he spoke of priests.” The above passage is self-explanatory and it states clearly the relationship between the Levitical priesthood and the law given to the priest. Note the bold statements above. In vs 5, we were told that one of the laws given to the Levi priests was to collect tithe. In vs 12, we were told that when the Levitical order was changed, the law also changed. Vs 13, went on to expunge us in the new covenant from the Leviticus laws of tithing as we belong to the order of our Lord Jesus Christ. Thanks for your comments. We are learning 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by PastorKun(m): 12:49pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
Koolking: Absolutely brilliant submission. The bolded closes all arguments on the matter except one wants to deliberately rebel against scriptures. 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by blunderass01: 12:56pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
brocab: Let me at this moment ask you about Malachi you just quoted. You know He said "bring all your tithes into the store house that there may be food for my house, and prove Me now in this". So how do you suggest that tithes be paid. Since God Himself has commanded that bring all your tithes into the store house. |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 2:44pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
Mod, move to FP |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by CAPTIVATOR: 2:54pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
Koolking: Hmm .... TWO EDGE SWORD ! " for when the priesthood is changed , the law must also change" Heb 7:12 I love ur response 2 Likes |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Emusan(m): 4:45pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
Koolking: @bold-Likewise there is no valid statement from you in the New Covenant that against Tithe because initially I didn't explain your OP but only quote someone who claimed that Tithe has been cancelled. It was a bit of a relief to note that you consciously conceded that "some things like burn offering was set aside. It will be out of place and rather illogical annulling an order due to its imperfection and uselessness and yet allow only one of the commandments or what you termed as tasks - tithe to continue. The bolded part especially @underlined statement shows that you're not yet understood the point the writer of Hebrew was making. Let me put it this way maybe you can grab it, 1) Tithe and burnt offering predated the establishment of Levitical priesthood. 2) Sacrifice for atonement of sins was FIRST established on Levitical priesthood. You have to know the important of all these; *Burnt offering was performed by people of old to seek God's face which is the ONLY way of drawing near to God and first performed by Noah Gen 8:20. *Sacrifice for atonement of sins was met for FORGIVENESS of sins and first performed on the FIRST chosen PRIESTS Exo 29:14 *TITHE was not recorded concerning anything about man's IMPERFECTION rather God Himself claimed TITHE belong to Him not as a Burnt Offering for man to seek the face of God nor like Sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins BUT what is solely HOLY unto the Lord. So it was those things that pertain unto man for entering the holy presence of God and forgiveness of sins which can't be attained through burnt offering and sacrifice for atonement THAT WAS IMPERFECT AND USELESS. These two imperfections (Entering holy place of God with burnt offering and atonement for sins through sacrifice) were the major reason why Jesus came because God didn't want them or please with them. This was reinforced in Hebrew chapter 10:1-22 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared. 3 But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year. 4 For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer. 6 You were not pleased with burnt offerings or other offerings for sin. 7 Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God— as is written about me in the Scriptures.’” 8 First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” [size=14pt](though they are required by the law of Moses).[/size] 9 Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” [size=14pt]He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect.[/size] 10 For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time. 11 Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins. 12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time..., 14 For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says, 16 “This is the new covenant I will make with my people on that day, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” 17 Then he says, “I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds.” 18 And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices. 19 And so, dear brothers and sisters, [size=14pt]we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus.[/size] 20 By his death, Jesus opened a new and life-giving way through the curtain into the Most Holy Place. 21 And since we have a great High Priest who rules over God’s house, 22 let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. (Bold & underline mine) NLT With your argument, was considering how you would explain to a non-Christian Hebrews 7 vs 5, 11-13: “And those descendants of Levites who are priests are commanded by the law to collect one tenth from the people of Israel, that is from their own countrymen even though their countrymen are also descendants of Abraham.” I believe I've provided my view here but you couldn't grab my point still, but what I see here is a mix up of point. Like I said earlier when verse 12 says For when the priesthood is changed, there also has to be a change in the law does not mean THEIR TASKS IN THE OFFICE but the requirement of choosing PRIEST ONLY in the tribe of Levi this is the point the writer is bringing into light which you couldn't grab even when reading along with verse 13 "And our Lord [size=14pt]of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe of Judah and Moses did not mention his tribe when he spoke of priests.”[/size] (from the translation you used) So it's the requirement of choosing ANOTHER TRIBE instead of that of LEVI that was CHANGE since the LAW ONLY permitted Levi tribe to be PRIEST. Please I can't repeat myself anymore over this. Thanks for your understand. (Please don't mind my TYPO because I was in haze while replying your post and I couldn't reconcile verse 5 with other part) |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 4:48pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: Thanks sir 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by CANTICLES: 9:53pm On Mar 17, 2015 |
Emusan: Follow koolking explanation and also the 7 points raised in Captivator's post , and stop givin people unnessesary burden ..... Just Wish u guys could adhere to the apostle pauls fine example found in 1thes 2:9 " surely you remember, brothers, our labor and toil. We were WORKING NIGHT AND DAY, so that we would not put an expensive burden on any of you" "" 2 Likes |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by brocab: 10:17am On Mar 18, 2015 |
If you are hooked on tithing then do it the way God had told you to tithe-bring your tithes {food} into the storehouse. Tithing had nothing to do with money, back than, and tithing was a law given to the Jews, not the Gentiles or the Christians It's only those few who have taken on that role to tithe in a un-biblical manner/ but to be honest, theirs no honour in taken monies from people. When I am involved in ministry, I have always ask the Lord to supply my needs; I don't ask for monies and I don't receive any either from anybody. But the Lord supplies me, he opens those doors, and he directs my path where I can go and shop without paying for the merchandise, I end up having more then enough to help support the Homeless, the needy-the Lord supplies my needs and their needs-given them warm blankets and clothing and having food in their bellies-daily. Ask and it shall be given. So bring all your tithes into the house of God, bring in your crop, stocks and merchandise, feed the hungry the homeless. So its up to you? This is the way God wanted you to tithe. blunderass01: 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Emusan(m): 1:13pm On Mar 18, 2015 |
CANTICLES: You're very funny, I should follow koolking and go against scriptures. SMH... I repeat WHERE WAS TITHE CANCELLED IN THE BIBLE? |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by PastorKun(m): 2:40pm On Mar 18, 2015 |
Emusan: I think the onus is on you to show us were christians were instructed to tithe in the bible and explain also why you and your ilk preach tithes of money contrary to God's tithing instruction to the israelites. 1 Like |
Re: Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant by Koolking(m): 2:59pm On Mar 18, 2015 |
Emusan: Facts have been laid bare from the Bible for you to see, but you have refused to acknowledge. However, there is no crime in being opinionated and believing in what gives one personal fulfillment. The cool fact is, tithe or no tithe, your salvation will never be taken away provided you live a righteous life. I respect your believe Sir. 1 Like |
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